sub panel in attached garage

[shuhdonk]

I have 200 amp service in my home. I have run 6/2 wire off a 60 amp 220v breaker from the main panel to the attached garage. I want to attach this to a sub panel that will have 2 220v breakers that run to two different places in the garage with a 40 amp and a 20 amp breaker, nothing else in the panel. Can I wire the ground to a grounding bar in the sub panel and the 2 hots to the main input lugs on the panel and nothing would be on the neutral bar. Is this the proper way to do this?

Thanks!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

what are the circuits for?

 

[shuhdonk]

what are the circuits for?

Mini split AC and a welder

 

[nadogail]

You will be well served to pull in a Neutral, for "just in case" you want to have a 120 Volt receptacle.

 

[pattenp]

To answer your question, yes ground to a ground bar and the neutral bar goes unused. Technically the neutral bar can be used if bonded for the grounds since there are no neutrals saving on having to add a ground bar. If a neutral is added then the neutral bar needs to be isolated and a ground bar added.

 

[shuhdonk]

Thanks all for the info, I appreciate it.

 

[Terry D]

What state are you in

 

[shuhdonk]

What state are you in

Michigan

 

[Terry D]

Michigan

Looks like your state is in the 2014 NEC for residential. If you where in the 2020 NEC, you would of had to GFCI protect those (2) 240 volt loads. But you don't have to being in the 2014.

 

[TRWham]

Looks like your state is in the 2014 NEC for residential. If you where in the 2020 NEC, you would of had to GFCI protect those (2) 240 volt loads. But you don't have to being in the 2014.

I am not sure how these loads are served, but just to clarify, a GFCI is required for 240 V receptacles, but not direct wired loads.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I am not sure how these loads are served, but just to clarify, a GFCI is required for 240 V receptacles, but not direct wired loads.

Actually they are required for air-conditioning condensors.

 

[Terry D]

I am not sure how these loads are served, but just to clarify, a GFCI is required for 240 V receptacles, but not direct wired loads.

In Section 210.8(F) of the 2020 NEC, GFCI protection is now required for outdoor “outlets” at dwellings.
An “Outlet”, according to the NEC Article 100 definition, is a point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.
Many people make the mistake of thinking that only receptacles can be “outlets”. A receptacle is one kind of outlet, but so is a hard-wired connection such as a ceiling fan, or even a hard wired connection to an outdoor air conditioner.
In the 2020 NEC, all outdoor “outlets” for dwellings, other than lighting, electric snow-melting, deicing, or pipeline heating, that are supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts to ground or less, 50 amperes or less, shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel. This is a big change that came as a result of a child's death. Here is the link to the reason behind the code change: https://www.juryverdictreporters.com/.../basi.../page14.html

 

[TRWham]

In Section 210.8(F) of the 2020 NEC, GFCI protection is now required for outdoor “outlets” at dwellings.
An “Outlet”, according to the NEC Article 100 definition, is a point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.

The key word is OUTDOOR. Article 210.8(A)(2) clearly refers to receptacles for garages, which is the location in question.

 

[Terry D]

The key word is OUTDOOR. Article 210.8(A)(2) clearly refers to receptacles for garages, which is the location in question.

The condenser is outside

 

[TRWham]

The condenser is outside

So it's not in the garage, then, right?

 

[Terry D]

So it's not in the garage, then, right?

210.8(A) requires all Dwelling 125 through 250 volt "receptacles" to be GFCI protected. It does not specify indoor or outdoor or amperage limitations.

210.8(F) requires all outside "outlets" at dwellings 125 volts to ground and 50 amps or less, with the exceptions of the ones I listed above, to be GFCI protected. An attached garage is a extension of the dwelling.

The key words are Receptacles and Outlets. A receptacle is just one type of outlet. An outlet can be hardwired equipment

To my understanding the only thing 240 volt that doesn't have to be GFCI protected indoors is something hardwired like a hardwired air compressor

 

[exranger06]

To my understanding the only thing 240 volt that doesn't have to be GFCI protected indoors is something hardwired like a hardwired air compressor

Receptacles only need GFCI protection in certain areas/rooms of the house. A 240V receptacle in a living room or bedroom (for an A/C unit, for example) doesn't need GFCI. Also, a 240V receptacle for a stove doesn't need GFCI if it's more than 6 ft away from the sink.

 

[Terry D]

Receptacles only need GFCI protection in certain areas/rooms of the house. A 240V receptacle in a living room or bedroom (for an A/C unit, for example) doesn't need GFCI. Also, a 240V receptacle for a stove doesn't need GFCI if it's more than 6 ft away from the sink.

I was talking about garages.

 

[FMB4]

GFCIs are far too inexpensive to ignore safety wise these days imo. Also keep in mind that a single GFCI receptacle wired into a single circuit will protect the entire circuit/branch. This, and the relatively low cost/high safety of GFCI recepticles or, better yet, breakers makes them difficult to pass up.

 

[Terry D]

GFCIs are far too inexpensive to ignore safety wise these days imo. Also keep in mind that a single GFCI receptacle wired into a single circuit will protect the entire circuit/branch. This, and the relatively low cost/high safety of GFCI breakers makes them difficult to pass

Maybe you meant to say GFCI breaker in the first part, But a GFCI receptacle will only protect from that receptacle and everything that is wired to the load side down stream. It will not protect anything before it. GFCI's are people protectors. The overload protection whether being a breaker or fuse, protects the circuit.

 

[FMB4]

Maybe you meant to say GFCI breaker in the first part, But a GFCI receptacle will only protect from that receptacle and everything that is wired to the load side down stream. It will not protect anything before it. GFCI's are people protectors. The overload protection whether being a breaker or fuse, protects the circuit.

Yes, you are correct sir. I failed to mention that very important fact. Thank you very much for clearing that up for me.

 

[sparky 1971]

We don't have to install the gfci protection on 240 volt equipment until Jan. 1. The eboard tried to exclude that entire section of the code. In the end, it was the board vs. Eaton, Siemens, and Square D in front of the state legislature and the board lost. The adoption hasn't happened yet (the rest of 2020 is in effect) because the manufacturers can't supply enough breakers, but they claim by January they will.