Sub panel installed. How does it look?

[poorboy87]

Got everything connected today and got power to my garage.
Just curious if my connections are ok. I don't have to have it inspected but I'd like another opinion. New wire comes in on the bottom left
It's 2-2-2-4 MHF on a 90A breaker

Main panel

Sub panel in the garage. I've got two ground rods outside about 6ft apart


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[Premium08]

I dont know my code that well but I think the two ground rods should be connected together with a continuous wire, how I was taught anyway.

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[poorboy87]

I had thought about doing that but it seemed excessive. I can still add that. Is having them both bonded to the panel not enough?


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[CoopVA]

You only needed one wire. One wire connected to both rods is the proper way to do it. The wire starts at one rod, connects to the next rod and then to the panel.


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[wyliesdiesels]

Yeah if the 2 bare cu wires go to separate groud rods, then thats incorrect! It should be one continous wire from panel to the last rod.

I had thought about doing that but it seemed excessive. I can still add that. Is having them both bonded to the panel not enough?


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The reason for bonding them together is so u have one low impedance path to earth. Bonding both rods together ensures one path to earth.

 

[poorboy87]

Do I have to have one solid wire between the two or can I just connect the one ground rod to the other then to the panel?



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[Premium08]

One wire from farthest rod , through second rod up to panel. No breaks or splices

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[poorboy87]

We'll that *****... Guess I'll go buy another spool. It's cut and won't reach now.

Can I bury the cable between the two rods so it isn't sticking above ground?

Thanks for all the help!

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[Premium08]

Depending on how you placed your rods in relation to the panel you should be able to use the wire from the farthest rod and loop it through the other rod then back up to the panel. Yes burry the wire

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[poorboy87]

One cable goes up and over into the panel the other goes up the block wall and into the shop follows the wall to the panel then down and in.

I'll see if I can make it work


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[Premium08]

If they are 6ft apart why does the wire take such a different route, just curious

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[Norcal]

Yeah if the 2 bare cu wires go to separate groud rods, then thats incorrect! It should be one continous wire from panel to the last rod.




The reason is so u have one low impedance path to earth. The goal is to have 25 ohms or less of impedance to earth.

No, if you can prove 25 Ohms of resistance or less then you need to only drive one rod.

 

[poorboy87]

I don't know. Seemed like a good way to route it.
Learning as I go

I did two ground rods just because. I don't know if I actually needed to but I did it anyway

 

[APEowner]

You need to check local code on the ground. In some places it's 2 rods and one continuous cable that runs from panel to rod to rod and back to the panel. The idea being that the cable can be damaged in any one spot and you'll still have a ground

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I can't remember the last time I saw a fly swatter...





Tommy

 

[wyliesdiesels]

No, if you can prove 25 Ohms of resistance or less then you need to only drive one rod.

Yeah, i didnt word that right! I corrected it!

I don't know. Seemed like a good way to route it.
Learning as I go

I did two ground rods just because. I don't know if I actually needed to but I did it anyway

2 rods are required only if u cant show that u have 25 ohms or less of resistance to earth with one rod.

You need to check local code on the ground. In some places it's 2 rods and one continuous cable that runs from panel to rod to rod and back to the panel. The idea being that the cable Canberra damaged in any one spot and you'll still have a ground

Ive never heard of this. Must be a local requirement....

 

[Aceman]

Can someone post the code article that requires you to use one wire to both rods and not individual wires to each rod?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Can someone post the code article that requires you to use one wire to both rods and not individual wires to each rod?

250.64(c)

 

[Charles (in GA)]

One wire from farthest rod , through second rod up to panel. No breaks or splices

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You can splice the wire using an approved permanent method such as exothermic welding. It will be cheaper however to just replace the ground.

Charles

 

[JohnX14]

Can someone post the code article that requires you to use one wire to both rods and not individual wires to each rod?

250.64(c)

A grounding electrode conductor can not be spliced (with exceptions) But the installation in OP is not a code violation. You can install the way he did. You can also run from panel to one ground rod. Then run a second wire from rod to rod. This is considered a bonding jumper. There are numerous publications explaining this. The Mike Holt site has some good illustrations. NEC 250.53(3)(C) discusses bonding jumpers.

 

[pattenp]

Ding Ding Ding.... we have a winner. This is how the NEC is written, but our local requirement is 2 rods placed on one continuous conductor.

A grounding electrode conductor can not be spliced (with exceptions) But the installation in OP is not a code violation. You can install the way he did. You can also run from panel to one ground rod. Then run a second wire from rod to rod. This is considered a bonding jumper. There are numerous publications explaining this. The Mike Holt site has some good illustrations. NEC 250.53(3)(C) discusses bonding jumpers.

 

[poorboy87]

Should I run a cable from ground bar to ground bar in the panel?


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[pattenp]

Nope. The panel box is enough.

Should I run a cable from ground bar to ground bar in the panel?


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[poorboy87]

That's what I would think. So leave it the way it is?


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[sberry]

A piece of copper bond wire wouldn't hurt anything.

 

[CoopVA]

Wouldn't hurt but not needed...


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[alfredeneuman]

If it's a detached garage, the conductors to the ground rods should be terminated to the neutral bar, not the ground bar.

 

[C96]

If it's a detached garage, the conductors to the ground rods should be terminated to the neutral bar, not the ground bar.

Absolutely WRONG! Do not do this!!!!

 

[JohnX14]

Ding Ding Ding.... we have a winner. This is how the NEC is written, but our local requirement is 2 rods placed on one continuous conductor.

I neglected the local code disclaimer. Is that a state, town, or county regulation? Here in MA we do have a fair amount of front end amendments.

 

[JohnX14]

If it's a detached garage, the conductors to the ground rods should be terminated to the neutral bar, not the ground bar.

Absolutely WRONG! Do not do this!!!!

What he said ^^^^^^^^

 

[sberry]

If it is an old 3 wire feed it needs to be bonded.

 

[CoopVA]

Absolutely WRONG! Do not do this!!!!

Big no no! DO NOT ATTACH THE GROUND TO THE NEUTRAL! The neutral in the sub panel must be isolated from the ground.


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[pattenp]

It's a county thing here. At least the inspector always says "You need 2 rods on one continuous conductor". It's not worth arguing with him since it's such a minor thing.

I neglected the local code disclaimer. Is that a state, town, or county regulation? Here in MA we do have a fair amount of front end amendments.

 

[alfredeneuman]

I had that backwards. I apologize for my mistake

I realized that the neutral is only supposed to be grounded in 1 location

 

[Mech33]

Big no no! DO NOT ATTACH THE GROUND TO THE NEUTRAL! The neutral in the sub panel must be isolated from the ground.


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It looks like the neutral is currently bonded to EGC in the sub panel picture, so that should be disconnected.

 

[JohnX14]

It's a county thing here. At least the inspector always says "You need 2 rods on one continuous conductor". It's not worth arguing with him since it's such a minor thing.

I can't stand hearing that unless the inspector is correct. I agree that it's such a small detail it isn't worth arguing. I've been an electrical contractor for 25 years and an inspector for ten. As a contractor I'd do the install as the inspector wants but tell him why I disagree with his interpretation. As an inspector I'd want a contractor to tell me if he disagrees, then we can discuss.

All this is moot if there really is a local ordinance.

I just had to clear this up with one of my guys. I laid out a new service for one GEC to be installed from main disconnect to 2 ground rods. (passing through the first as it would be easier) And a second GEC to be run from the main disconnect to the copper water service. Then my other crew tried to tell the first crew it "has to be one conductor all the way from main disconnect/ through ground rods/ to water main. Just had to explain otherwise on Friday. It's a common misconception in this industry.

 

[JohnX14]

It looks like the neutral is currently bonded to EGC in the sub panel picture, so that should be disconnected.

Looks clearly isolated to me. Are you sure you aren't looking at the picture of the main panel?

 

[Mustang51js]

Just noticed in your main panel you have grounds and nuetrals under the same screw,neutral has to be under it's own screw but you can put two grounds under one screw

 

[Mustang51js]

And local code here is one continuous wire for ground rods

 

[Mech33]

Looks clearly isolated to me. Are you sure you aren't looking at the picture of the main panel?

Oops yes you are correct...