Subpanel from Main Lug @ Meter

[juice240]

I need to run another subpanel from my main lug attached to my meter. I already have one panel run from this location. Can I add another panel from this main? I don't see where I could tie the neutral in to this panel.
Than main lug is 200 amp and I need to run a 100 amp sub panel 330' and am considering 2/2/2/4 direct bury. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Speedy Petey]

If you are calling the "main lug" the meter pan then definitely NO, you CANNOT take more power from here. You need to come from the main panel with a sub-feed breaker.

330' is a pretty long way to go with line voltage (120/240V). You'll need to upsize to counter voltage drop. What is the load going to be on this 100A feeder?

 

[juice240]

Thank you for the reply Speedy. What I'm calling the main lug is the 200 amp main disconnect the meter runs in to, similar to what is used for a number of mobile home hook-up at the pole.
I don't foresee anything more that 30-40 amps being used at any one time, if that. This is a small outbuilding being converted to an office w/bathroom. Receptacles and lights, 120v water heater, and small A/C is all that will be in there.

 

[juice240]

If this picture posted correctly, this is what I'm calling the main lug/service panel.

 

[pattenp]

I believe even with a non-continuous load of 40A you'll need at least #1 Al.

 

[juice240]

Speedy, I have a 100 amp service in my shop wired from this set up. Are you saying I can't run another 100 amp service line from the box at the pole to my other building?

 

[juice240]

Thank you pattenp, I was basing this on being told that a 2/2/2/4 should handle the load, but now I'm questioning that answer after reading a number of posts on here. This is why: I was also told that I could run 2 hots and a ground from the panel at the pole (this was from an old timer) and then use the ground as the neutral and install a separate ground at the sub-panel as long as I installed a ground rod at the sub-panel. This does not sound right to me at all.

 

[sberry]

That ship has passed. The box stores can be worth fussy shopping here, at 200 ft or so the 2 would be good for 50A service or so, give or take a pinch,, 330 is a long ways and if one looked maybe 200A wire could be had for another dollar or buck and a half, its been a long time since I bought it.

 

[BillK]

Juice,
Not sure if i am understanding this setup you have. What is protecting the line that you have going to your sub panel now ? Is there a breaker at the "main" box ? There should be. A picture of the inside of your box on the pole would make it a lot easier to give you a good reply.

 

[Gary S]

Ask your power company. If they have provisions for another connection, they will allow you to do it. I've seen a lot of electrical systems done this way, but it needs to have the power company involved. If they say no, it is no. If they have lugs to connect to and allow it, then do it.

 

[pattenp]

It's recommended to not have more than 3% voltage drop. Using 2-2-2-4 at 330 ft at 40A load you'll be at around 3.5%. #1 will be just under 3%. Step up and use 2/0-2/0-2/0-1 MHF and you'll be good to 60A with less than 3% VD.

 

[sberry]

You know that's not terrible and would be helped a bit with load balance. I think my incoming is well north of 240 and that's assuming they are actually using 40. Use a water heater with a modest element and a modest air cond, this load can stay well south of 30 and then some, closer to 20 most likely. A 2 will fit in a 40A breaker.

 

[juice240]

BillK this is what the panel at the pole looks like inside. The only thing you can't see is the ground bus on the right side of the box. This is a 200 amp service, and I was incorrect earlier - this 200 amp service is run to a 200 amp breaker box inside the shop underground through conduit.

 

[Highlux]

What about a 100 amp sub panel off the 200 amp panel in shop? too far? is pole closer?

 

[Speedy Petey]

Sorry, had to run out and do a couple of jobs. Was hoping to stay in and do nothing 'till Thursday. Oh well.

Thank you for the reply Speedy. What I'm calling the main lug is the 200 amp main disconnect the meter runs in to, similar to what is used for a number of mobile home hook-up at the pole.
I don't foresee anything more that 30-40 amps being used at any one time, if that. This is a small outbuilding being converted to an office w/bathroom. Receptacles and lights, 120v water heater, and small A/C is all that will be in there.

Yes, you definitely can run from that panel. The pics make it all clearer. I though you had only a meter.

When you say 30-40 amps, at what voltage? 30A @ 120V is half the load of 30A @ 240V. Just saying 30-40A is meaningless.
From what you describe I can't see more than 20-30A @ 120v, or 15-20A @ 240V (the 120V loads spread over both phases).

Besides that the others have you covered.

 

[juice240]

Highlux - the pole is closer actually, the shop is one direction, the office/cabin the other.
Speedy - I will pull 240 to the 100 amp panel - just need to verify conductor size before I purchase 330' and then have voltage problems later on. Everything running off the panel will be at 120V.

To all of you, Thank You Very Much, you've all been a tremendous help!

 

[BillK]

juice,
Make sure to verify what you are trying to do. The wire that you want to run has to be protected by a breaker. That would mean putting a second breaker in your box on the pole and running the new wire from that breaker. I don't think you can hook up directly to the incoming leads from the meter. I don't have my code book here at work to look at and you really need to ask a true electrician to be certain. There has to be something (breaker) to protect the new wire you are going to run.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Thank you for the reply Speedy. What I'm calling the main lug is the 200 amp main disconnect the meter runs in to, similar to what is used for a number of mobile home hook-up at the pole.

The answer is "probably", but you need to check with your local electrical inspector to be certain.

 

[Speedy Petey]

The answer is "probably", but you need to check with your local electrical inspector to be certain.

What exactly would he be checking? Whether or not he can come put a feeder breaker in an outdoor panel?

 

[juice240]

BillK - I do plan on installing a 100 Amp breaker and connecting the conductors to that and then run to the sub-panel. I guess at this point, I just need to make sure of wire size so I can hook up to the breaker that I install.

And, a big "Thank You!" to all that have responded. You've been a bounty of information and assistance and I wish all of you a very Happy New Year!

 

[2ManyProjects]

I need to run another subpanel from my main lug attached to my meter. I already have one panel run from this location. Can I add another panel from this main? I don't see where I could tie the neutral in to this panel.
Than main lug is 200 amp and I need to run a 100 amp sub panel 330' and am considering 2/2/2/4 direct bury. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

BillK - I do plan on installing a 100 Amp breaker and connecting the conductors to that and then run to the sub-panel. I guess at this point, I just need to make sure of wire size so I can hook up to the breaker that I install.

OK, now that SOME of the intervening confusion has been cleared up, a few points...

First, at the distance you need to run, that "2/2/2/4 direct bury" will be grossly inadequate, regardless of whether it is copper or aluminum. To feed 100 Amps 330 feet using aluminum wire will require AT LEAST AWG 4/0 main conductors. To go lighter than this will lead to excessive voltage drop. However, earlier in the thread you also mentioned not usually needing more than perhaps 30-40A at the sub-panel; so IF you can live with a 60A breaker at the source end, you can get away with AWG 2/0 (which would be MUCH more cost-effective).

Second, and also considering the distances involved, have you consulted with your local power company to determine the costs of adding a second service drop (with its own meter), much closer to where you actually need the power? They will likely charge for this, perhaps including an extra monthly fee if they think you are a "commercial" customer; but it may well be your best bet in the long run, for several reasons: You would save the cost (and installation hassle) of that huge oversized feeder cable, AND you could presumably have as much juice as you want in the outbuilding.

 

[juice240]

2ManyProjects - What is the largest size wire that will fit into a 100 Amp Breaker or a 100 Amp Panel?

 

[2ManyProjects]

2ManyProjects - What is the largest size wire that will fit into a 100 Amp Breaker or a 100 Amp Panel?

Dunno. You'd have to look up the specs for the particular make/model breaker that would fit YOUR panel. And yes, given the extremely oversized wire you'd need to accommodate that run distance (especially if using aluminum), this very well MIGHT be a problem.

 

[sberry]

I live on 250 ft of number 2. I have major gas appliances. I have an air cond, its a pretty heavy one, on occasion use some from an electric heater, have a toaster, a micro, no coffee pot per sa and occasional use of a vacuum. Fridge. Up to 300 watts of light. Would never notice I wasn't at the service.

Maybe the guy that suggested the number 2 wasn't that far off for the loads you describe. Maybe if you had said machine shop you might have got a different answer. Its no good if you cant afford it and the main reason for that is that is a faulty realistic estimate for demand.

Shop price and wire, HD had a better wire for less and talked him in to the roll at a good price. Put it on a 40 and a 6 space panel at the other end. You could have power in it within a good afternoon with 2 journeyman with a trencher, hooked up ready to install secondary.

 

[sberry]

The fridge is about 4A and 1500 watts either as cooling or heat opposite the leg I got the micro and the toaster and lights on leaves at worst 10 or 12A out of balance out of 20 possible per leg, things would brighten up a little with some load applied to the second leg reducing the V drop a bit further.

Put computers and small modest water heater on one leg, air cond and lights on the other.

If I recall correctly Home Depot had a better price then the jobber or Lowes and the Lowes was 2 2 4 6 I believe? HD was 40 cents less a 2 2 2 4