Sufficient Lighting for Garage Workshop

[Diavolicchio]

I just joined a few minutes ago with the hopes of getting feedback from a few of you experts about garage lighting. I'm soon going to be building a new place and want to be smart both about the types of lighting I use and how much of it.

My garage will be 500 sq ft. I'm currently planning on installing 5 fluorescent light fixtures, each of which will contain 4 - 4' tubes. If I've done my math correctly, I should end up with about 122 footcandles of light in the place. I just have no idea if this will be sufficient for doing woodworking. The floor will have an off-white UCoatIt epoxy floor coating with a high-gloss urethane topcoat, so I'm hoping it'll help make the place a little brighter.

Are 122 footcandles enough for a garage that will be used as a workshop?

The other specs for the fluorescents I'm considering are:

• 32 watts/each -- 640 watts for the garage
• CRI: 93
• Kelvin: 5500 (Full Spectrum)
• Lumens: 3050/bulb --61,000 lumens for the garage
• Footcandles: 121
• Garage has 9' Ceiling

Any feedback appreciated. Thanks.



John

 

[fflintstone]

general rule of thumb is 2 watts per square foot.

if you can figure out this softwear it can be helpful

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74528

 

[Diavolicchio]

general rule of thumb is 2 watts per square foot.

if you can figure out this softwear it can be helpful

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74528

Thanks for the feedback as well as the link to the lighting software. I'm downloading it now.

Rather than making a decision based on a general rule of thumb, I'd like to made a decision based upon the specific garage I'm building, taking into account the type of lighting I'm considering as well as the fact I'll have off-white, high-gloss floors. If I'm able to get by with less than 2 watts per square foot and be happy with the outcome, I want to do it.

The lights I'm currently anticipating in my garage will be swallowing up more electricity (640 watts) than any other thing in my house. My goal is to minimize the amount of electricity I'm using to achieve good lighting, rather than simply making a decision on a general rule of thumb. Increasing to 2 watts per square foot would take me from 640 watts to 1,000 watts. This extra electricity would really add up over time.

I'm curious if there are other folks on here with around the same lumens/sq ft as I'm considering (122) who are happy with the light they've got.


John

 

[fflintstone]

Thanks for the feedback as well as the link to the lighting software. I'm downloading it now.

Rather than making a decision based on a general rule of thumb, I'd like to made a decision based upon the specific garage I'm building, taking into account the type of lighting I'm considering as well as the fact I'll have off-white, high-gloss floors. If I'm able to get by with less than 2 watts per square foot and be happy with the outcome, I want to do it.

The lights I'm currently anticipating in my garage will be swallowing up more electricity (640 watts) than any other thing in my house. My goal is to minimize the amount of electricity I'm using to achieve good lighting, rather than simply making a decision on a general rule of thumb. Increasing to 2 watts per square foot would take me from 640 watts to 1,000 watts. This extra electricity would really add up over time.

I'm curious if there are other folks on here with around the same lumens/sq ft as I'm considering (122) who are happy with the light they've got.


John

The program will work with and or figure out lumens per foot, but most of the people asking lighting information on this board are not as knowledgeable as you. Maybe you will wake up the intellectuals lurking. This forum seems to have a larger amount of people capable of cognitive thought than most Internet forums. I would bet the average age and secondary education level are higher than most forum user groups as well.
I can appreciate not wanting to “go overboard” with excessive lighting, but I would rather have too much than too little.
I thing the program will allow you to add, “task lighting” as well. Unlike most I will be adding natural light into my shop. I like free light.

 

[Diavolicchio]

I'm far from an intellectual myself; I'm just a bit Type-A when it comes to researching and planning things.

I've fooled around with that Visual software a bit and have decided to add an extra two fixtures. Your point about having a little too much light (or access to it) rather than not having enough is well taken. I'd prefer to manage my electrical usage by adjusting how many lights are on at a given time.

I've decided to break up the garage lighting into two sections, the front of which I'll likely have on much more than the back (it's a long, narrow garage.) This way I've not only got access to really good lighting, but the option of only using it where I need it at a given time. Previously, I was simply planning on having all of the garage lights either on or off.

I've therefore jumped from 122 fc to 171 fc (or 171 lumens/sq ft) and will have 7 - 4 tube fixtures for a total of 28 - 4' fluorescent tubes.

28 tubes x 3050 lumens/tube = 85,400 lumens / 500 sq ft = 171 lumens/sq ft = 171 fc

Thanks for the help, Flintstone.


John

P.S. Why are you hoping to "wake up the intellectuals" on here anyway? We're talking about garages, not debating the theories of Kierkegaard or Heidegger.

 

[fflintstone]

I'm far from an intellectual myself; I'm just a bit Type-A when it comes to researching and planning things.

I've fooled around with that Visual software a bit and have decided to add an extra two fixtures. Your point about having a little too much light (or access to it) rather than not having enough is well taken. I'd prefer to manage my electrical usage by adjusting how many lights are on at a given time.

I've decided to break up the garage lighting into two sections, the front of which I'll likely have on much more than the back (it's a long, narrow garage.) This way I've got access to really good lighting, but the option of only using it where I need it at a given time. Previously, I was simply planning on having all of the garage lights either on or off.

I've therefore jumped from 122 fc to 171 fc (or 171 lumens/sq ft) and will have 7 - 4 tube fixtures for a total of 28 - 4' fluorescent tubes.

28 tubes x 3050 lumens/tube = 85,400 lumens / 500 sq ft = 171 lumens/sq ft = 171 fc

Thanks for the help, Flintstone.


John

P.S. Why are you hoping to "wake up the intellectuals" on here anyway? We're talking about garages, not debating the theories of Kierkegaard or Heidegger.

I am glad I was able to help. I too am still fiddling with my lighting layout, and will also have multiple switches to control how much Consumers power gets from me. My shop will be 3 times as larger than yours so I have to be careful.

As far as intellectuals go, there are some people here who really know their poo so to speak. There are also people full of poo as well. I jump in when I think I have something that will help. The people that know the most get tired of answering questions from noobs that don’t bother to use the search function. Using terms like foot-candles put you miles ahead of the “how may lights do I need” posts.

I joined this board in search of an answer to a garage question. I have yet to have it answered, despite my type A research and planning

 

[Diavolicchio]

To me, an Intellectual is someone who's not only very book smart, but brilliant when it comes to seeing the big picture, especially as it pertains to subjects that are theoretical and abstract in nature. They're brilliant idea people and theorists but not necessarily gifted at all when it comes to things that are mechanical. I'm betting if someone like Nietzsche or Sartre or Marx were around today, they'd still hire a mechanic to fix their car.

I think you're simply after an expert, not an intellectual.


John

 

[Jack Olsen]

No advice on the lighting, but...

I think Nietzsche and Marx would have fixed their own cars (albeit for distinctly different reasons).

Sartre and Heidegger would have the work done.

It's certainly nice to see Soren Kierkegaard's name come up on a garage forum.

 

[bmwpower]

Wow. That seems pretty bright. I have avg. 55fc at working height and that seems to be pretty good for me.

 

[nmanitou]

Here is a good link I used when planning my lighting needs.
http://http://www.usenergysciences.com/light_level_recommendations.htm

I suppose I'm not intellectual enough to philosophize on the virtue's of well placed lighting. But I still hope you find it useful.

P.S. I don't know your age, but I am finding that my aging eyes need more light in general. I am a big fan of several switched light fixtures and task lighting to crank it up when needed, but keep it "basic" for quick visits to the space.

 

[Diavolicchio]

Nmanitou:

That's a terrific set of charts. According to this info, I should keep my garage lighting somewhere between 150 and 200 footcandles. With the two extra fixtures I'll be adding, I'll be right in the middle at 171 footcandles.

Thanks for posting the link.


John

P.S. I'm 46, and I'm building my next place with the intentions of it being my last home. The charts were particularly helpful because they listed the ideal lighting for me at 150 fc between the age of 40 - 55 and 200 fc from 55+.

 

[fflintstone]

To me, an Intellectual is someone who's not only very book smart, but brilliant when it comes to seeing the big picture, especially as it pertains to subjects that are theoretical and abstract in nature. They're brilliant idea people and theorists but not necessarily gifted at all when it comes to things that are mechanical. I'm betting if someone like Nietzsche or Sartre or Marx were around today, they'd still hire a mechanic to fix their car.

I think you're simply after an expert, not an intellectual.


John

I guess my definition of an intellectual has unfortunately been dumbed down to anyone who actually demonstrates cognitive thought (blame Washington for that). I can respect anyone who shows great knowledge in any given field. I respect people that know their limitations and seek guidance or improvement. I consider myself one of Ayn Rand’s objectivists, but I try to be wiling to listen to an opposing view if presented logically and rationally.
Does that make me an intellectual?
Mechanically I consider myself a “jack of all trades, and a master of most”
Socially though I am a flaming misanthrope.

 

[froggert]

my garage is 20'x23' and i've got 8 2-bulb t8 fixtures, so 16 4' bulbs in total. lighting is definitely good enough to work by, but a few extra fixtures wouldn't hurt. depending on the layout of your garage, you may have some darker spots or shadows with 7? fixtures, even if they do hold 4 bulbs each. putting them on a few circuits is helpful, too. i find that i use only half the lights most of the time.

 

[thdewey]

John,
First, welcome to Garage Journal. You will find a lot of help here on any topic, some of it practical and some philosophical. I see that you are from Maine and I did click on the link you have on your profile. Very cool house, is it yours?

In order to provide better help we'll need to know a little more. What kinds of cars do you drive? It took me a few years to learn that this is really important. I.e. if you drive a BMW well we know that you will want a clean, very bright layout. If you drive a pickup, like everyone else in Maine, you will probably need to focus your lighting on the workbenches/workshop area.
Second question, what do you want to do in this garage? If you want to only do woodworking or tear down engines or general work projects, these all play in your final lighting plan. I followed the formulas and then added more task lighting in the work areas of my shop.

Third question, what is your layout? Overhead doors block lights. Travel paths to work areas and car doors can also affect your lighting plan.

Good luck. Please post a picture of your progress.

 

[Diavolicchio]

Thdewey:

I really appreciate the welcome and the interest in offering your feedback. I won't be breaking ground until Spring, but I'm just trying to iron out all of the details now, so things are as seamless as possible when it comes time to build.

The home I'm building will be located on the edge of a young 12 1/2 fruit orchard and hobby farm that I've got underway. The initial structure being built is simply a guest apartment over a heated garage. I'll be living in the guest apartment for about a year prior to building the actual house which will be about 40 feet away.

The guest apartment/garage will look like as follows:

The interior dimensions of the garage are 18' x 32', so it's a long narrow space I've got to work with. The two vehicles that will reside in here will be a Jeep and a small tractor for the orchard. The tractor will reside in the back; the Jeep in the front.

Here's the overall layout, with the location of the light fixtures in the diagram on the right:

I'll be building the occasional piece of furniture in the garage, as well as using the workbench for purposes of grafting trees in the winter months, which requires good lighting. The workbench will be located beneath the two overhead lights in the lower LH quadrant of the garage.

The 7 fixtures I'm planning to use will all be flush-mounted to the ceiling, which will be 9'0" high. These are the particular fixtures:

Each of these fixtures will contain 4 - 48" F32T8 full-spectrum fluorescent tubes, giving the garage the 171 fc of light that I mentioned previously.

In addition to a large workbench in the one corner of the garage, there will be various work spaces clear along the full 32' of the left wall. The area that will require the best light however will be above the workbench area itself. The mechanicals area for the structure will be located beneath the stairs that lead into the upstairs guest apartment, and will contain an 8th fluorescent fixture, specifically a 2-tube fluorescent using the same tubes as in the rest of the garage.

This will be a heated and very well-insulated space that will likely be used for many projects throughout the year, especially in the colder months. My goal is to ensure that I've got great quality, full-spectrum lighting throughout, strong enough to do more detailed work like tree grafting and fine woodworking.

There will be an overhead garage door (8' x 12'), which is what has forced me to locate the fixtures where I have.

One thing I've been trying to resolve is whether it's a necessity to put 6 - 2 tube fixtures in the back half of the garage, 3 on each side, instead of the 3 - 4 tube fixtures down the center that I'm currently considering. I'm curious whether there would really be a benefit to doing the lighting this way, or whether the 3 fixtures in the back half of the garage will be giving off enough light that it simply wouldn't make much of a difference. It certainly would be bit a cheaper to go with 3 larger fixtures rather than the 6 smaller ones.

I'm curious what your thoughts are, what red flags or obstacles you may see, or what you'd do differently if it were your space. By the way, I'd originally considered a garage door at each end of the garage, but nixed it from an insulation and cost standpoint. I don't mind backing the Jeep out to get to the tractor, although it may seem a nuisance to some.

Thanks in advance for any feedback,


John

 

[CrashTestDummy]

As Bmwpower says, that sounds like a lot of light. We have a large (plenty of space to walk around two mid-90's Impalas, even with the cabinets across two sides, with space for toolbox, bike storage and refrigerators) 2-car garage that I light with 4 ea. 2-bulb 48" T12 fixtures. I used to have another light over in a far corner, but due to power usage concerns, and the fact that I'm never over there with the door closed, and still have plenty of light.

The floor is a cheap epoxy paint job in a light gray, and the walls/ceiling are bright gloss white. The cabinets, however, that run across two walls, from about chest high to the ceiling, are urathane-coated wood cabinets. There's still plenty of light.

I do have problems with shadows when the hoods are up working on the engine compartments (I have to back the cars out a little to clear the shadows), so placement is indeed an important thing to consider.

I plan to replace these with T8's (or perhaps even T-5's if the price gets right) to reduce the power draw. When the lights are on, I sometimes have trouble lighting some of the bulbs, which I believe is just due to all the power draw and the fact that the circuit is the farthest one away from the breaker box.

Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas

 

[fflintstone]

Thdewey:

One thing I've been trying to resolve is whether it's a necessity to put 6 - 2 tube fixtures in the back half of the garage, 3 on each side, instead of the 3 - 4 tube fixtures down the center that I'm currently considering. I'm curious whether there would really be a benefit to doing the lighting this way, or whether the 3 fixtures in the back half of the garage will be giving off enough light that it simply wouldn't make much of a difference. It certainly would be bit a cheaper to go with 3 larger fixtures rather than the 6 smaller ones.

John

I would go with 4 fixtures in a rectangular pattern rather than the 3 down the center. if you are going to stick with 3 then turn them 90 to get more light washing the walls.

where is the workbench? on the back wall?

 

[Diavolicchio]

I would go with 4 fixtures in a rectangular pattern rather than the 3 down the center. if you are going to stick with 3 then turn them 90 to get more light washing the walls.

where is the workbench? on the back wall?

FFlintstone:

I never considered turning the fixtures in the back 90-degrees. That's an interesting idea. I do like it a bit better:

Thanks for the suggestion.

The workbench will be in the lower LH quadrant, so just inside the garage door to the left, along the wall beneath the two fixtures shown there. It's an 8' workbench that will require 12' of wall from a workability standpoint.


John

 

[Diavolicchio]

As Bmwpower says, that sounds like a lot of light.

Gene:

It is a lot of light, but it amounts to just under 1.8 watts/sq ft, which is still a bit less than the 2.0 watts/sq ft that many people claim is the general rule of thumb.


John

 

[nmanitou]

You might also consider additional fixtures above the overhead door "footprint". I understand these will be blocked when the door is up, but if you will be using the space in the winter, I assume the door will be down. I solved this problem by putting lights in the clear space above the door on a separate switch so I could turn them on only if the door was down and I needed the light there. Right now you will have a pretty big "dead spot" for good lighting.

 

[APEowner]

You might also consider additional fixtures above the overhead door "footprint". I understand these will be blocked when the door is up, but if you will be using the space in the winter, I assume the door will be down. I solved this problem by putting lights in the clear space above the door on a separate switch so I could turn them on only if the door was down and I needed the light there. Right now you will have a pretty big "dead spot" for good lighting.

I second that-I only have 8' ceilings and my door actually rubs on the ceiling when its open so I can't put lights there and I'm constantly moving portable lights around to make up for the poor lighting in that area.

You might want to re-think the window over the bench idea as well. I thought it would be really great to have a window over my bench and I went out of my way to make that happen and I now regret it. The natural light is great but it's on the wrong side of whatever you're working on and is more annoying than helpful. I recommend lots of windows, anywhere but over a bench.

 

[Diavolicchio]

You might also consider additional fixtures above the overhead door "footprint". I understand these will be blocked when the door is up, but if you will be using the space in the winter, I assume the door will be down. I solved this problem by putting lights in the clear space above the door on a separate switch so I could turn them on only if the door was down and I needed the light there. Right now you will have a pretty big "dead spot" for good lighting.

Nmanitou:

That's a great point as well. I'd have to determine the location and space required by the garage door opener apparatus so I don't block any light fixtures, but that's pretty easily done. The best solution however may simply be to turn all 7 of the fixtures 90-degrees, although I don't care for the effect that will have on removing the lighting from directly above the workbench.

In the dead of winter, that space will likely always be occupied by the Jeep. When the Jeep's not there, I probably won't be either. However in the warmer months I could likely find myself working after dark in the garage, with the Jeep outside, in which case I'd probably want even lighting if the garage door were shut. Your idea makes good sense. Thanks.


John

 

[Diavolicchio]

You might want to re-think the window over the bench idea as well. I thought it would be really great to have a window over my bench and I went out of my way to make that happen and I now regret it. The natural light is great but it's on the wrong side of whatever you're working on and is more annoying than helpful. I recommend lots of windows, anywhere but over a bench.

APEowner:

I'm minimizing the number of windows in the garage from a thermal insulation standpoint. The window above the workbench will be facing due west, and will have a retractable insect screen on the outside that will help to block out a bit of light, but I never gave much thought though to the downsides of having a window above a workbench, regardless of the direction it faces. I may have to rethink this, or at least have a back-up plan for the times that I've got light coming in from a direction that's more of a hindrance than a help.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.


John

 

[Diavolicchio]

I've fooled around with a number of lighting configurations and I think the one that ultimately may work the best is below. It basically adds an additional 2 fixtures that would otherwise have been centered above the garage door, and splits them into 4 fixtures half the size (2 tubes each.) I could probably go with two smaller fixtures above the entry and laundry area as well, but I like the symmetry to the layout and having light that feels a bit more even:

I could also have simply stuck with 2 - 4 tube fixtures in place of the 4 - 2 tube fixture above the garage door, but I like how this spreads out the light a little more evenly in the garage. I also considered splitting the 3 larger fixtures in the back into 6 smaller ones, but the cost for all of the fixtures just starts to get out of hand.

With all of the fixtures on, these tubes would produce 109,800 lumens or approximately 220 lumens/sq ft. Yes, it's excessive, but I'd rarely ever have them all on at once. Most likely, I'd have either the front lights on or the back lights. At times, it could simply be just the two above the workbench.

Any additional feedback/suggestions appreciated. Thanks for the great input so far.


John

 

[nmanitou]

Looks like you are pretty close. You might fine tune it once you are actually in "build" phase, but this should serve you well. I'm also a big fan of localized task lights, so as you figure out more what you will do with the working space along the walls you may want to consider a few of those.

 

[Diavolicchio]

Looks like you are pretty close. You might fine tune it once you are actually in "build" phase, but this should serve you well. I'm also a big fan of localized task lights, so as you figure out more what you will do with the working space along the walls you may want to consider a few of those.

Your suggestion was helpful. Thanks again.

One thing I just noticed in the owner's manual for the garage door opener is that I do have the option of installing the rail for the opener off-center, as much as 4 feet in either direction from the center of the door. I may consider this option as it will allow me to revert back to fixtures that are all identical. Another incentive to do so is that two of the larger fixtures are only about 60% of the cost of four smaller.

Simply based on aesthetics, I think this may be the best solution.

John

 

[Cobradriver]

John,

I am right at 200 lumens/ft with the lights I'm putting in today and tomorrow. This seems to be the range that I like as a mechanic. My previous garage was in the 150ish range and it could have been just slightly higher.

It makes it nice when you drop that small screw on the floor...

Hopefully I'll be able to tan while working.

Chris

 

[Diavolicchio]

John,

I am right at 200 lumens/ft with the lights I'm putting in today and tomorrow. This seems to be the range that I like as a mechanic. My previous garage was in the 150ish range and it could have been just slightly higher.

It makes it nice when you drop that small screw on the floor...

Hopefully I'll be able to tan while working.

Chris

Chris:

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one with a tanning booth for a garage.

Thanks for the input. I'll be curious to hear whether you're satisfied with the new lighting once it's all in. Post an update, would ya?


John

 

[haugy]

Cobradriver I would also like to see what yours turns out like at 200 lumens/ft. I'm putting in 12 highbays, with 6 T8's each. All totalled it will be about 162 lumens/ft. I'm hoping that will be enough.

 

[Diavolicchio]

Even though I'm looking at an average of 253 fc of light in this garage when everything is on, the cost for running all 36 - 4' tubes at once should come out to about 16.1 cents/hour at the current rate for electricity in Maine. It's not quite as bad as I was anticipating. It'll also be rare that I'd ever have everything on at once.

Note: The footcandles were calculated with the tubes located 6" below the ceiling (the fixtures are all surface mounted) in a 9' high garage with the workspace at a height of 36". I factored in a higher than normal reflectance for the floor as well, given that I'll have an off-white UCoatIt epoxy floor coating with a high-gloss urethane topcoat.

I also switched over to a fluorescent tube with slightly higher lumens (3,300/tube) than the original one I was considering.

Thanks again for all of the helpful feedback and suggestions.


John

 

[Ray-CA]

I second that-I only have 8' ceilings and my door actually rubs on the ceiling when its open so I can't put lights there....

For the area above the garage door, have you considered recessed lighting? If trimmed the right way it shouldn't project below the ceiling level and would clear the door when it's up.

Ray

 

[Cobradriver]

I just wanted you to know that I haven't forgotten. My electrician is semi retired and works when he feels like it. I hope to have them up later today. I did have to cut back to only 8 of the 8' High outputs. There was way to much stuff to work around on the ceiling that would have been very hard to move. It should still put me at around 150 Lumens a foot. I will likely do some task lighting above the workbench I build when I get to it...

Chris

 

[66 Shorty]

I like the 4 - 2 bulb lamps above your garage door, seeing that I'm sure you have an opener, & you wouldn't be able to mount the 2 - 4 tube fixtures in the middle of the door opening w/o interfering with the opene... Or I could be totally wrong here.

I know you can mount your opener off-center, but, I myself like symmetry.

 

[Diavolicchio]

66 Shorty:

I mentioned back in this post that I discovered it wouldn't be a problem mounting 2 - 4 bulb fixtures above the center of the garage door, because the particular garage door opener I'll be using can have the rail and the motor off-centered by as much as 4' in either direction with no problems. So I'm going to do just that. I'll stick with the pair of 4 bulb fixtures centered above the garage door and simply off-center the rail and motor by 3' in my case, It shouldn't pose any problems.


John

 

[rwhite692]

It's certainly nice to see Soren Kierkegaard's name come up on a garage forum.

Kierkegaard would take the position that only YOU can be responsible for your choice of lighting, and that, although you should question the affects of that decision on those around you, your main concern should be how your choice will enable you to define your own existence.

-I'm down with that.