Surface Prep for repainting with rattlecan spray paint

[Masako]

Can't seem to find a good isolated thread on this. Sorry if this is already talked to death.
What am I doing wrong? I can peel off the paint with my fingernail on both metal surfaces.

After wire wheeling everything, sanded with 400 grit. Degreased with Krud Kutter and wiped off with clean blue shop towel. Rustoleum Self Etch Primer on both, Rustoleum Gloss Protective Enamel for a red c clamp, Duplicolor Engine Enamel w Ceramic Ford Black on a combination square.

More sanding between coats? The paint peels straight off from the metal surface so the etching primer doesn't seem to be sticking very well either.

Do I need to spray a final clear coat? If so, what brand has been the best in your experience?

Just joined the forum so I can't post an image. Sorry......Looking forward to sharing images of my projects in the future!

 

[Stuart in MN]

There was some discussion recently about Rustoleum paint fails - I think the gist of it was you have to wait quite a while before applying top coats, but I don't recall the details. If someone else doesn't chime in with an answer, use the search feature in the bar at the top of the page to see if you can find that discussion.

 

[lilredex]

Usually when paint peels off of bare metal you can point to inadequate surface preparation. Try it again on something else and eliminate that wipe down and primer. Have never had a problem with Rustoleum finish paints.

If you start an album, we can see your pictures.

PS...Welcome to the forum.

 

[FlaGman]

I would normally prep with a somewhat coarser sandpaper than 400 grit, more like 180 so the paint has more of a mechanical bite. I have always cleaned with a solvent like denatured alcohol, xylene or lacquer thinner rather than Krud Kutter, which I think is water based.

 

[Kevin54]

Don't use Krud Kutter. Once everything is sanded, wipe down with some fast dry enamel thinner, tack off, prime, paint. Just make sure the metal is up to a comfortable 70+ degrees. Cold metal....you're screwed.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I paint small items a LOT. Best I have found is to beadblast, blow it off with compressed air, and paint without primer. Barring this, I sand with 40 grit using an orbital sander on something like a cabinet, cutting to bare steel, wipe with naphtha, then prime and paint, scuffing the primer with purple Scotchbrite pad. A power wire brush removes paint, but burnishes the surface, reducing the bite. Try hand sanding with 100 grit next time, after the wire brush. In cool weather use a hair dryer to heat up small parts before painting.

 

[Masako]

Right. Duh. I went and checked out another thread on posting pics.

Thanks for all of your helpful suggestions. It's been raining out the past 2 days which NEVER happens where I live. Of course it rains right when I'm ready to paint....

I'll try out the suggested method other than Krud Kutter to prep the surface. Grittier sandpaper, denatured alcohol (etc), and don't paint on a cold surface. Heating it up a little is such a good idea.

 

[PugetDude]

I HATE Rustoleum.
There, I said it.

Never had any problems with recoat windows, peeling, or taking a month to dry with ANY other brand.

 

[CJM8515]

Id go to lowes and buy thier spraypaint. Rustoleum only works if the metal is 70f or better and you wait a LONG time for it to dry.

 

[ZRX61]

I'd be pointing the finger at Krud Kutter.

 

[Farmer J.]

After the surface preparation and degreasing it's good to warm the surface to be painted. As the thinner used to degrease the surface evaporates it cools the surface, attracting moisture condensation. (everything around here gets moisture condensing on it it seems..!)
Some good advice on this web site, and the paint this guy sells is way better than rustoleom too.
https://paintman.co.uk/methods-of-use/surface-preparation-techniques/

 

[tym]

An old-timer introduced me to Prep-All for degreasing surfaces prior to painting. Have to say it works pretty darn well. Have used it to prep metal for painting with rattle can, POR-15, you name it. Haven't had a failure yet.

 

[Masako]

An old-timer introduced me to Prep-All for degreasing surfaces prior to painting. Have to say it works pretty darn well. Have used it to prep metal for painting with rattle can, POR-15, you name it. Haven't had a failure yet.

I looked into Prep-All and sounds like a great product. Unfortunately, I can’t get it being in California. I’ll try and use acetone to clean the metal surfaces. I’ve also learned that rattle can paint can take weeks to cure!

 

[Wanna Ride]

I know a lot of guys are going to cringe when I say this, but I’ve had the best results with the cheapest rattle cans. I buy the generic stuff from WalMart (in the blue cans), and it works really well. Whenever I tried using name brand rattle cans, I always had adhesion or finish issues.

Keep in mind, I’m not rebuilding antiques, just putting paint on various things I’ve built in the shop, for my use. I don’t know what that stuff is, but it works pretty darn good. When I’m ready to paint, I wipe it down with alcohol, shoot some primer so I don’t have any bare metal, and spray on a few light coats of color as needed for consistent coverage. Of course, I knock off any surface rust and scale first. End results are actually pretty good, but keep in mind, these aren’t car fenders either.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I know a lot of guys are going to cringe when I say this, but I’ve had the best results with the cheapest rattle cans. I buy the generic stuff from WalMart (in the blue cans), and it works really well. Whenever I tried using name brand rattle cans, I always had adhesion or finish issues.

Keep in mind, I’m not rebuilding antiques, just putting paint on various things I’ve built in the shop, for my use. I don’t know what that stuff is, but it works pretty darn good. When I’m ready to paint, I wipe it down with alcohol, shoot some primer so I don’t have any bare metal, and spray on a few light coats of color as needed for consistent coverage. Of course, I knock off any surface rust and scale first. End results are actually pretty good, but keep in mind, these aren’t car fenders either.

I also started out using Roses 99 cent paint and it did very well. I recently bought some of the paint you describe and it was like painting with a diluted product. I had tried some before but it seemed better than recently. Not knocking what works for you, just my observation. My son had the same experience.

In spray bombs (rattle can before the internet) I get good painting using both Krylon and Rustoleum. I have no issues with either, and don’t see why other people claim they do. After painting I hang small items outside in the sun to dry even in cooler weather. I guess the ultraviolet rays along with the heat speeds things up.

 

[Farmer J.]

Yea, if you find something that works well for you, go with it..
Last time I bought some rustoleum it was like painting with tinted laquer, useless waste of time, what a mess! Yes, I did stir it well before using it. Had to strip it off and do it over again..
When I mentioned this to 'Paintman' he had a laugh and said "Well, some of those DIY paints just don't have much pigment in the mix".
Apart from this, I try and be mindful of the advice any professional always seems to give about painting anything, and that is that the more effort you put in to the preparation the better the potential result!

 

[OccupantRJ]

This was painted with Rustoleum rattle can last week. Sanded to bare metal, wiped with a rag, primer, then scuff with scotch brite, and paint. The doors are wood, so have a few dings in them. Ok for a shop microwave stand. Used one can of paint that had the 25% extra. It was exactly the right amount needed.

 

[lilredex]

Another project done with Sunrise Red. Was sanded lightly to feather edge the wear and then sprayed.

Have found some of the best rattle can paint comes from Princess Auto, lots of body to it.

 

[glend123]

I like to sand with 120 grit or so, clean with alcohol, sandblast, clean with alcohol again, very light coat of primer, light coats of top coat. must be dry and warm.

 

[Masako]

Wiping with alcohol, denatured alcohol, acetone for metal surface prep? What does everyone prefer? Great pics! Please post more of your rattle can results and take some yummy close ups.

 

[Masako]

Another project done with Sunrise Red. Was sanded lightly to feather edge the wear and then sprayed.

Have found some of the best rattle can paint comes from Princess Auto, lots of body to it.

Looks tight [emoji106]

 

[Farmer J.]

This was painted with Rustoleum rattle can last week. Sanded to bare metal, wiped with a rag, primer, then scuff with scotch brite, and paint. The doors are wood, so have a few dings in them. Ok for a shop microwave stand. Used one can of paint that had the 25% extra. It was exactly the right amount needed.

Wow, that looks nice. The Rustoleum worked well for you!

 

[Farmer J.]

Another project done with Sunrise Red. Was sanded lightly to feather edge the wear and then sprayed.

Have found some of the best rattle can paint comes from Princess Auto, lots of body to it.

That looks great. Your sanding did a good prep and the wear doesn't show through.

 

[pwgfalcon]

I am located in the Northbay so same weather as OP.

I always use ACETONE just prior to paint. I keep the rattle can at least overnight in the house to keep it warm and shake it like I've got nothing else to do. In cold weather, the work warms up in the house as well.

I have had good results with Rust-Oleum and Krylon but I am particularly fond of PlastiKote by Valspar. The T-10 Machinery Gray is the best match to the blue gray found on older Delta machines. I generally don't prime.

 

[Maui]

This is my first official vise restoration, and it was painted with Rustoleum rattle can paint:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=392284&highlight=Maui+5163

Just before painting I wiped the surface down with Naptha. It evaporates quickly and preps the surface for accepting paint. I’ve since painted about a dozen vises and many other pieces of equipment using the same exact procedure and have never experienced an adhesion problem. And I have applied Rustoleum paint at temperatures as low as 44F. To my amazement, it worked well even at that temperature.

Maui

 

[lilredex]

A couple more projects.

A sheet metal roller. I got tired of looking at that rusty hulk, so one day I cleaned it up a bit and painted it with Tremclad dark blue (same family as Rust- oleum), much the same colour you find on Record vises. Minimal preparation was done, just a quick once over with #80 sandpaper then paint with a brush.

https://www.tscstores.com/TREMCLAD-RUST-PAINT-DARK-BLUE-378L-P6263.aspx

The other, a dust pan. There is some peeling on the handle, probably because it is galvanized. The rest, on the body is due to wear and tear.

The sheet metal roller is for making uniform curves on projects, rather than "kink bending" on a brake as the method I so often see used. Even Mr. Pete did that on a lathe belt guard he was making.

 

[OccupantRJ]

As far as surface prep, another couple of tools that I use a lot are carbide insert paint scrapers. I cabinet blast any small objects I can, but on larger pieces like castings I often scrape down to the metal before any other prep.

I have a large portable blasting setup, but sometimes I am not in the mood to use that with all that it involves. Neighbors, dust, wet weather, etc sometimes cause me to just break out the scrapers. Some assemblies also take a lot of work to keep grit out of bearings and other moving parts, so the scrapers get used. The scrapers are made by Warner. The round one is not as easy to find. It is model 10015 on Amazon. The triangle scraper is carried by Lowe’s, Home Depot, etc.

I often scrape on a project about 30 minutes at a time, as I always have several projects in progress. This keeps it from being so tiring or boring, but it gets it done. Note several disassembled Bridgeport mills spread out in the shop, for example.

Here is a Rotex turret punch that I am currently working on that punches 1/8” through 2” diameter holes in sheet metal. The rotating head parts will get cleaned and prepped with power wire brush or scotchbrite pads. After scraping is complete on the casting it will get a combination of power wire brushing and power sanding before rattle can primer. The finish coat can be done using either rattle can or gun depending on the weather at the time.