Surviving My Own Stupidity...

[maxpower_hd]

A friend of mine worked on a condo project where the hardwood floor guy left a bunch of sawdust from a recently sanded floor, which in turn was recently refinished but had defects thus the resanding. The whole condo went up. The sprinklers kept if from spreading to the rest of the units.

I don't have a metal can so I usually leave them in the middle of my driveway for a couple days until they dry out or throw them in my burn barrel.

 

[54fordtrk]

I showed this video to my wife this morning. She likes to refinish furniture and it hit home really well the importance of properly disposing of rags.

 

[ratdoggy]

You must be living right. If it has anything but water or glass cleaner on it, it goes to the stand alone trash can outside.

I put it right in the fire pit...As soon as I'm done with them

 

[MoonRise]

Also, about fire alarms. I have one... and it went off, but the shop is so far from the house that I didn't hear it. Obviously, I've got to come up with some kind of a solution for that.

Yup, I heard the fire alarm sound on the security camera footage.

As well as the empty spray can (?) popping off during the fire.

Possible solution to not hearing the fire alarm going off inside the garage/shop when you are not in the garage/shop:

Rig up an exterior alarm siren and light. Fire alarm inside building goes off, triggers the exterior horn and light to squawk and blink.

Depending on distance between garage/shop and main house, run a hard wire interconnect between the garage/shop fire alarm and the house fire alarm so that if either location 'triggers', they ALL squawk (same as all the current interior house fire alarms are supposed to be hard wired together so that they all go off in the event of and event.) Double check on Code as to whether an outbuilding smoke/fire alarm is 'allowed' to connect back to the house system or not.

 

[54fordtrk]

I have an old metal drum with a lid that I put oily rags in. The lid forms an air tight seal. Should I remove the center cap so it could "breath," or leave it sealed?

 

[MoonRise]

A friend of mine worked on a condo project where the hardwood floor guy left a bunch of sawdust from a recently sanded floor, which in turn was recently refinished but had defects thus the resanding. The whole condo went up. The sprinklers kept if from spreading to the rest of the units.

Probably not the sawdust per se, but the sanding off of the recently applied varnish (polyurethane floor varnish most likely).

Read the label on the sanding of polyurethane varnish.

BTDT. Hardwood floor varnish application, I scuff sanded between coats with an RO sander and fine sanding disks. I used a 'decent' Dewalt RO sander with a built-in dust collection canister.

Note: even after a day or so, freshly applied and dry to the touch and to handle polyurethane varnish is NOT completely 'dried' and cured. It is still undergoing its curing chemical reaction(s).

The sanding canister started smoldering because the polyurethane 'dust' and the extra airflow through the canister caused it to spontaneously combust.

The only damage was to the sander luckily.

Scared the **** out of me though.

RTFM. Or label.

 

[Shiftless]

"RTFM. Or label"

Always good advise!

 

[swharris]

I find it sorta funny that one of the sponsor ads showing up in this thread is for a FIREPLACE.

 

[bryceaugustine]

After this happened I am trying to be more vigilant and safe.

http://fox4kc.com/2017/03/20/massiv...preads-rapidly-to-homes-and-other-structures/

 

[rlitman]

Probably not the sawdust per se, but the sanding off of the recently applied varnish (polyurethane floor varnish most likely).

Read the label on the sanding of polyurethane varnish.

BTDT. Hardwood floor varnish application, I scuff sanded between coats with an RO sander and fine sanding disks. I used a 'decent' Dewalt RO sander with a built-in dust collection canister.

Note: even after a day or so, freshly applied and dry to the touch and to handle polyurethane varnish is NOT completely 'dried' and cured. It is still undergoing its curing chemical reaction(s).

The sanding canister started smoldering because the polyurethane 'dust' and the extra airflow through the canister caused it to spontaneously combust.

The only damage was to the sander luckily.

Scared the **** out of me though.

RTFM. Or label.

Yes. Oil based polyurethane has curing oils in the finish. Sanding off old polyurethane just creates dust. Sanding between coats of newly applied oil based polyurethane creates dust that can self ignite. The best suggestion I have for this is to completely clean out your dust collection system after sanding the old floor, before you do your inter-coat sanding, and then keep the inter-coat sanding to a minimum, and empty your dust collection following that into something fire safe.

Sanding between coats of water based polyurethane does not have the same issue.

 

[Mpower5266]

When I was a kid a family friend lost a hanger, 4 airplanes, 3 or 4 classic cars, and his attached house because he was staining a jewelry box for his wife and the old rags caught on fire over night. Since then my dad has always had a few of these in the home shop and hanger.

I think I will find one for my basement soon, as I put my rags in the outdoor fire pit in a bag over night before tossing them in the trash.

 

[My Old Tools]

I have been well aware of this for years. All of my shop trash cans are steel with tight fitting lids. All of my finishing rags get laid out flat on the driveway concrete to thoroughly dry before they are placed in the trash cans.

 

[38Chevy454]

Wow, that was close to a much bigger fire and subsequent damage. Sometimes we learn the hard way through the school of hard knocks. Glad in this case Ryan just had a minor incident.

 

[Mike.VA]

That was well worth the read.

Thanks for sharing that. Some things you just always think it only happens to the other guy, and then something like this happens.

I know now that a Flame retardant trash can is in order for my new garage.

 

[Heel2toe]

The metal can won't stop the rag from igniting, but it will prevent it from lighting up anything around the can.

Very good point. As long as it can keep whats burning inside contained that's all that is needed. Once again thanks for the heads up; it certainly scared me enough to get my act together. Speaking of which I'll be picking this up after work

 

[ratdoggy]

Dumb question...
If you use a safety can as in the prior post. Even if you did leave the rags in there and they ignited it wouldn't be a big blaze and it would be contained in the can..Is that true?

 

[Heel2toe]

That's certainly the idea. I mean within reason of course. But if were talking about a couple rags it should contain the fire within vs melting like a plastic bin and spreading to whatever is close enough.

 

[sublime68charger]

Very Very lucky your shop didn't go up in flames!

like many other have said and thanks for posting the video about this!

 

[nine4gmc]

Holy sheesh, glad you and your shop are okay, that could have ended much worse. I have a oil rag I keep around the shop that I will be finding a safe place for now, thanks for the public safety warning reminder!

 

[rlitman]

Dumb question...
If you use a safety can as in the prior post. Even if you did leave the rags in there and they ignited it wouldn't be a big blaze and it would be contained in the can..Is that true?

Yes, that is the whole point of the safety can.
The safety can:
1) Has an automatically closing lid that prevents the lid from accidentally being left open
2) Has a lid that prevents oxygen from being admitted. This will smother any flame that tries to start. You may experience a flashover when opening the lid at a later time, though you should be safe to just drop the lid and let the fire put itself out again (another reason for the lid design).
3) Has a raised and ventilated base that prevents heat from a fire within the can from igniting a combustible floor.

This should all work as planned, so long as the can is not in direct contact with a combustible surface. The can's paint may blacken on the outside, but unless it was leaning on that wood rack, it would not conduct enough heat to ignite anything.

In another thread, I mentioned that a galvanized steel trash can would work as well on a concrete or dirt floor, so long as you remembered to put the lid on.

However, he's the interesting part about fire safety. You can buy a PLASTIC "oily rag can".

In theory, with a well sealed lid, even plastic is ok to smother a small fire.

 

[Heel2toe]

Though plastic wouldnt be my first choice if the lid has a proper seal it should in theory not allow combustion. Of course there will be O2 present in the unoccupied space of the container but hopefully thats not enough to allow the fire to get large enough to melt the plastic.

Its a simple equation. You need a fuel source, some form of ignition or heat and O2. Remove any of those 3 and you have no combustion.

 

[Kevin54]

It literally makes no sense. None at all...

Years back at the shop, we had a couple of spontaneous combustion fires. Most manufacturers of the chemicals do not stress enough about mixing them with some other chemical. It is a very hazardous thing. In the cases of our shop, the fire didn't start until a few hours afterwards.

 

[Kevin54]

Dumb question...
If you use a safety can as in the prior post. Even if you did leave the rags in there and they ignited it wouldn't be a big blaze and it would be contained in the can..Is that true?

Most true. The cans are designed to contain the fire and not let it come out of the can.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Crazy, can't believe the rack of scrap wood didn't ignite, dodged a real bullet there.

I use old t-shirt scraps when I'm using BLO, stain, polyurethane, etc... When I'm done I lay them out flat on top of my metal trash can lid to dry out overnight. Next day they are stiff as a board & dry.

 

[rlitman]

Years back at the shop, we had a couple of spontaneous combustion fires. Most manufacturers of the chemicals do not stress enough about mixing them with some other chemical. It is a very hazardous thing. In the cases of our shop, the fire didn't start until a few hours afterwards.

There are plenty of things that can spontaneously combust in a workshop environment. Boiled linseed oil is not the only example, but it is the most common one as it is a pretty reliable ignition source. And as a PSA: some forms of spontaneous combustion can start without the presence of oxygen.

Take epoxy for example. It gets hot when mixed. The common dual syringe of 5-minute epoxy should not contain enough volume to ignite, but if you were to mix up a cup of West System and let it cure in the bottom of the cup, it sure could. I've seen a 1/2" layer of waste epoxy in the bottom of a cup start to smoke.

 

[Shiftless]

Ryan:
Another thank you for posting that video. Maybe you will save somebody's life.
The guys here who are reading this and planning a new build should strongly consider a sprinkler system. I bet that would save on fire insurance too as an added benefit.

 

[James E]

When I was a kid a family friend lost a hanger, 4 airplanes, 3 or 4 classic cars, and his attached house... .

I just quoted this because it reflects a true Garage Journal member. I love how you start out with the guy losing a hangar, airplanes, cars...and then you mention the house almost as an afterthought. You, sir, belong here.

In another thread, I mentioned that a galvanized steel trash can would work as well on a concrete or dirt floor, so long as you remembered to put the lid on...In theory, with a well sealed lid, even plastic is ok to smother a small fire.

I am curious about which is more important--having airflow to allow the rags to stay cool or containment to not allow the fire to spread? A galvanized can would have enough oxygen in it (and not be airtight) so everything in it might still catch on fire, but as long as the lid stayed on, you might be ok.

In Ryan's fire, the bursting aerosol can would probably have blown the lid off of a metal trash can--especially after you hit it several times with other equipment and the lid doesn't fit so well any more.

I know for a fact that I have some "empty" aerosol cans in my plastic garage trash can right now. Even one that was almost empty would have enough flammable gas and chemicals in it to blow the lid off of my plastic trash can.

 

[Mpower5266]

I just quoted this because it reflects a true Garage Journal member. I love how you start out with the guy losing a hangar, airplanes, cars...and then you mention the house almost as an afterthought. You, sir, belong here.

It was a pretty crappy house.

 

[BlueBomber]

Ryan, glad you avoided a full blown fire. I was not so lucky--see the link in my signature line for the damage done to my garage by the same dumb act. I came within a quarter hour of losing my entire garage and two classic cars.

Here's the direct link for those on Tapatalk:

Massacusetts garage renovation after fire

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[PelicanPines]

I have seen that before... my uncle was a cabinet maker and ONCE he caught it smoldering in a 5 gallon metal bucket that he basically poured his beer on ...

Anyway...

I planned for this by putting a fire pit outside my garage door... any rags etc that would end up in the garbage... end up in the fire pit. NOT ONCE did that ignite but hey... I'm lucky...

Ok...

Ryan, ... want to let you know... I LAUGHED MY *** OFF in the middle when I realized nothing was seriously damaged and you had it on video...

Thanks for the LAUGH. AND serious message.

 

[rlitman]

I just quoted this because it reflects a true Garage Journal member. I love how you start out with the guy losing a hangar, airplanes, cars...and then you mention the house almost as an afterthought. You, sir, belong here.

Too true!

I am curious about which is more important--having airflow to allow the rags to stay cool or containment to not allow the fire to spread? A galvanized can would have enough oxygen in it (and not be airtight) so everything in it might still catch on fire, but as long as the lid stayed on, you might be ok.

In Ryan's fire, the bursting aerosol can would probably have blown the lid off of a metal trash can--especially after you hit it several times with other equipment and the lid doesn't fit so well any more.

I know for a fact that I have some "empty" aerosol cans in my plastic garage trash can right now. Even one that was almost empty would have enough flammable gas and chemicals in it to blow the lid off of my plastic trash can.

Ever see a 55 gallon oily rag can? I haven't. I suspect that the small size is chosen to limit the amount of available oxygen. Yes, a bursting aerosol can could easily pop a lid off (and the propane propellant inside would help too), but I suspect that if the smoldering rag was limited to the air in a 10 gallon or less can, there wouldn't be enough heat to burst an aerosol can.

If lids are a problem for you, consider the "open" lids on wastepaper bins used in public places. They have a rim that rolls the smoke back down, self-smothering a fire within.

some examples:

 

[tombell572]

All the fire service guys here should recall the "Triangle of Combustion" from academy days: fuel, heat, oxygen. It was all there, courtesy of the BLO providing its own fuel and heat.

As noted by others here--not limited to boiled linseed oil. I recall an instructor who would refer to hazardous and combustible materials as "methyl, ethyl bad stuff"--lots of it out there that we use every day.

Tom B.

 

[Showkey]

All the fire service guys here should recall the "Triangle of Combustion" from academy days: fuel, heat, oxygen. It was all there, courtesy of the BLO providing its own fuel and heat

Tom B.

The saving grace was it was short on fuel.........

 

[platinum overcast]

I did the same thing a few years ago. Applied Penofin (rosewood oil) to the ipe siding on the garage. Tossed the rags in the 55 gallon plastic garbage bin. Roughly 13 hours later woke up to the sound a crackling fire in the driveway. Burned the bin to the ground, a couple sections of fence and part of the lilac it was under. Fortunately it was at the opposite corner of the driveway away from the garage.

Managed to get most of it put out with the garden hose just as the firetruck rolled up.

The firefighters asked if it might be arson... I explained the situation and they said it happens all the time.

Be safe out there.

 

[Jarhead0408]

Wow! You were lucky on that one Ryan.

Makes me glad I purchased a 10 gallon Justrite safety can. I bought it for $52 from Amazon's Warehouse deals. Brand new in the package and just about the same price as the 6 gallon.

I'm glad you and your shop are okay man.

 

[Danny Wiseley]

Your fire insurance should cover the smoke damage, also. You have probably done enough cleaning to cover the deductible, so you could hire a professional cleaning company to finish up -- using insurance proceeds. Good luck.

 

[doorfx]

Why can I not read the first post ? It is blank , no story?

 

[Git]

Why can I not read the first post ? It is blank , no story?

The video - watch the video

 

[Nexussian]

Dayyumm, sorry to hear that, glad it wasn't worse.

I was taught to put anything soaked in boiled linseed oil either into a safety can (the triangle shaped red ones with a lid) or into something that could contain it (ie a wood stove, if it does spontaneously ignite, no big deal).

 

[Bennylava]

I wouldn't worry about it. Obviously learn from it and don't do it again, but sh1# happens. My grandparents business burned to the ground in this manner. Oily rags soaked in stain + the texas summer heat. Burnt down a multi million dollar business. Several years before that, they burnt down the trash truck that would come and empty the dumpster. Had to find a new trash company.