Symmetrical 2-post lift question

[SlickXJ]

Hey everyone! I've been doing a bunch of research as to what lift is going to suit my needs. I don't have a garage yet, as I will be building one, so I'm kind of building my garage around my lift. Here are my criteria:

- ALI certified
- Rise of at least 76" since I'm 6'2" and manufacturers aren't known to be exact on their specifications. That also usually doesn't include the drop to top safety lock. I'd also take personal experience with a specific lift into consideration.
- At least 10k capacity
- Symmetrical
- Clear floor
- 3-stage arms front and back ideally
- Not more than 6k shipped roughly
- Inside column clearance large enough it won't be a crazy squeeze to get out of a wide car

That last piece of criteria is a bit more undecided. I'm around 300 pounds, but I don't have a huge gut. Even so, this concerns me when it comes to inside column clearance and being able to get out of a car. Does anyone that's bigger have experience with what a good clearance would be for someone my size? Most lifts have somewhere in the 112" region, which would give me about 21" on either side to get out of my Jeep Cherokee. Lifting anything wider, which will happen, and it will start turning into a real squeeze to get out. I know it also depends on where the car is placed in relation to the columns, but I'm going with worst case. Don't want to drop a huge chunk of change just to be dissatisfied.

I was looking at the SPO12-HMR from Rotary. It meets all my criteria, but I don't want to exclude everything else yet. I didn't even know this model existed until I contacted Rotary and asked if they had anything that would fit my needs. Thanks for any input!

 

[rattle_snake]

In reality, it is difficult to exactly center a vehicle side to side without getting out to check and re-positioning accordingly.
That said, if the vehicle is slightly to the right you have a few more inches to work with.
Plan B is to leave trans in N, get out, and roll vehicle into lifting position.

 

[lakeroadster]

Hey... a new guy. Welcome.

We have a Rotary SPOA10, assymetric. Rotary makes a great product, We've had it since 2007 and moved it to our place in the mountains in 2016.

We designed our barn maintenance bay around my lift also. Check out my build thread below for more information... and if you have any questions feel free to ask here, or PM me.

If your not lifting really heavy vehicles... consider an assymetric lift. It addresses the width issues and remember, unless your working on a vehicle you can always park it back a few feet so the door is away from the posts... as long as you account for that with the size of the building.. and the location of the lift in the building.

 

[RWorth]

I wouldn't worry about the width, most of the time with mine I have to roll the vehicle to get the front arms past the tires, so I always get out after I pass the post and push it back by hand after I swing the arms in. they roll easy on the concrete floor.

 

[SlickXJ]

In reality, it is difficult to exactly center a vehicle side to side without getting out to check and re-positioning accordingly.
That said, if the vehicle is slightly to the right you have a few more inches to work with.
Plan B is to leave trans in N, get out, and roll vehicle into lifting position.

Fair point on both accounts. Just wanted to avoid the leaving in N and rolling if somewhat easily possible.

Hey... a new guy. Welcome.

We have a Rotary SPOA10, assymetric. Rotary makes a great product, We've had it since 2007 and moved it to our place in the mountains in 2016.

We designed our barn maintenance bay around my lift also. Check out my build thread below for more information... and if you have any questions feel free to ask here, or PM me.

If your not lifting really heavy vehicles... consider an assymetric lift. It addresses the width issues and remember, unless your working on a vehicle you can always park it back a few feet so the door is away from the posts... as long as you account for that with the size of the building.. and the location of the lift in the building.

Define really heavy. The most I'll be lifting that I can guess would be a 2015 F-350 CC/6.7L which base curb weight is 7700 lbs for the LWB version. Base curb weight on the front would be almost 4700 lbs, meaning I wouldn't exceed a 10k lifts 2500 lb/arm specification if balanced correctly. I am wary of asymmetric lifts and trucks because of load balancing. Any experience?

I wouldn't worry about the width, most of the time with mine I have to roll the vehicle to get the front arms past the tires, so I always get out after I pass the post and push it back by hand after I swing the arms in. they roll easy on the concrete floor.

What model lift do you have?

 

[SlickXJ]

Another reason I want to be able to access the drivers door while it's on the lift is if I'm doing some diagnostics and need to, for example: Cycle the key, check fuel pressure, while having it a little in the air as to access fuel pump wiring.

EDIT: I suppose I could roll the window down, step up on the lift, and reach through. Knowing my luck, the window would be nonfunctional lol.

 

[lakeroadster]

Define really heavy. The most I'll be lifting that I can guess would be a 2015 F-350 CC/6.7L which base curb weight is 7700 lbs for the LWB version. Base curb weight on the front would be almost 4700 lbs, meaning I wouldn't exceed a 10k lifts 2500 lb/arm specification if balanced correctly. I am wary of asymmetric lifts and trucks because of load balancing. Any experience?

My experience is there is no way I'd load a 2500 lb arm with 2300 lb based on published weight data.

If, on the other hand, I took the truck to a scales and verified that weight, I would be comfortable lifting it with my SPOA10 Rotary Lift, if the lift could reach the factory specified lift points.

But if I were picking a lift as you are, to lift the 2015 F-350... I'd buy the 6 ton lift.

 

[RWorth]

What model lift do you have?[/QUOTE]

9000lb symmetrical, that is 112" between posts.

 

[cj7jeep81]

With those specs, I'd be looking at a 12k lift (if you've got the ceiling height). Should get you more width, and the extra weight capacity would be nice. Something like this would be awesome.
https://www.gesusa.com/xpr-12c.html

 

[ZipSnafu]

I too have a asymmetrical lift and glad I got it. IMO I think you should get the lift that will work on the majority of your vehicles and deal with the hard lifting ones as they pop up.

 

[firebirdparts]

I have a symmetric lift, 9 feet between posts, and I push every car. There's no way I can get out of a car with that width without letting the door hit the cushion provided for the door to hit.

So look at your width, 10 feet might work, but that's still only 6" more than what I have per side.

 

[johnehr]

I was similarly concerned with the inside post space when I was shipping for my lift. I went with an Atlas OH-10X 10k symetrical which has additional width as well as an extra height (I am also 6'2"). Even with regular 2-stage arms, it's been able to pick up everything that I've thrown at it, and I never have a problem getting in and out of the vehicle's door.

 

[Garett]

We run 10k lbs assymetrical rotary at work, they are great. At home I run a 10k lb symmetrical Revolution lift, for the money I prefer it to the Rotary. Revolution is owned by Rotary, it runs the same hydraulics and controls with china steel. The design is the old US made Forward Lift before Rotary bought them out. I like symmetrical being able to load backwards if I need to, trucks placement is also looks much better. If you are lifting lots of trucks go symmetrical and don't forget to get truck frame cradles.

 

[Ironcrow]

I like symmetrical being able to load backwards if I need to...

I load my asymmetrical Benwil backwards from time to time. Is there a problem with this on some lifts?

 

[clubairth]

Your wise to think about that!

A few other things?
I have a BendPak XPR-10A-LP. Note this is the only ALI lift that has been mentioned in this thread. Decide how important this is to you. To me it's CRITICAL! BUT I found it added about $600 or so to the cost of the lift compared to non-certified lifts. What convinced me is the testing the lift goes thru to meet ALI spec's. You can watch videos on how they rate them and how they overload them during testing.

I also did NOT want anything on the ground between the columns. So I have the overhead bar with safety shut down on it.

http://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/two-post-lifts/xpr-10as-lp.aspx

Note it's 137"-145" wide. I also was concerned about door access. I also vote for asymmetrical installation.

This is with a Lincoln LS on it but you can see how much room you have on each side. Of course the downside is the lift will consume more of your shop the bigger it is. Note the angled columns for the asymmetrical install.

No need to worry about 2300 lb on a 2500 lb arm. They have a safety factor built in. I regularly put a Ford F-450-4 door W/4 Wheel Drive which is over 8500 lbs on my 10K lift. This is a BIG, LONG truck!

I have a tennis ball hung on a string in the exact center of the lift. When you drive in put the tennis ball dead center on your hood and now the vehicle is centered on the lift. Really made it quick to get a vehicle in there straight. Then the string/tennis ball is just put to the side of the lift for out of the way storage.

Mine is the LP version. LP = Low profile. What kind of stuff will you be working on? I am a high performance guy and any lowered car/truck will be a SOB to get in the air. I usually put some short 2" X 4"'s under the tires to raise the car up so I can swing the arms under it.

I have a 1957 Chev Pickup street rod that's so low I can't even do that! So I use a floor jack to raise each end up to position the arms. This is a truck that's so low I can't even get my head under the front bumper!

If your budget is $6K you can get any lift you want! Mine was about $3K delivered. Also note there have been several group purchases in the past on Garage Journal too.
.
.
.

 

[lakeroadster]

I load my asymmetrical Benwil backwards from time to time. Is there a problem with this on some lifts?

The lift won't know the difference... weight is weight.. as long as the user takes care to ensure location of vehicle center of gravity.

I can't imagine the folks writing the user manual would even address a user backing their vehicle into an asymmetric lift as it defeats the entire reasoning for an asymmetrical lift: More door opening space.

 

[SlickXJ]

My experience is there is no way I'd load a 2500 lb arm with 2300 lb based on published weight data.

If, on the other hand, I took the truck to a scales and verified that weight, I would be comfortable lifting it with my SPOA10 Rotary Lift, if the lift could reach the factory specified lift points.

But if I were picking a lift as you are, to lift the 2015 F-350... I'd buy the 6 ton lift.

I'm not necessarily picking a lift based on lifting an F-350, it's just a heaviest truck I can think of that I'd work on since my brother in law has one. And I also plan on getting a truck in the future.

I too have a asymmetrical lift and glad I got it. IMO I think you should get the lift that will work on the majority of your vehicles and deal with the hard lifting ones as they pop up.

How do you find it is lifting trucks? I figure I'll only be lifting trucks about 30% of the time, so I shouldn't rule out asymmetrical.

I have a symmetric lift, 9 feet between posts, and I push every car. There's no way I can get out of a car with that width without letting the door hit the cushion provided for the door to hit.

So look at your width, 10 feet might work, but that's still only 6" more than what I have per side.

The SPO12-HMR is 131.5" inside column clearance. That'd net nearly another foot of clearance per side. Do you reckon you'd have a much easier time getting in and out with another foot?

I was similarly concerned with the inside post space when I was shipping for my lift. I went with an Atlas OH-10X 10k symetrical which has additional width as well as an extra height (I am also 6'2"). Even with regular 2-stage arms, it's been able to pick up everything that I've thrown at it, and I never have a problem getting in and out of the vehicle's door.

IIRC, that lift is not ALI certified. Now some might call me a pansy for wanting it, but it'll make me feel much more comfortable. That lift otherwise was perfect

Your wise to think about that!

A few other things?
I have a BendPak XPR-10A-LP. Note this is the only ALI lift that has been mentioned in this thread. Decide how important this is to you. To me it's CRITICAL! BUT I found it added about $600 or so to the cost of the lift compared to non-certified lifts. What convinced me is the testing the lift goes thru to meet ALI spec's. You can watch videos on how they rate them and how they overload them during testing.

I also did NOT want anything on the ground between the columns. So I have the overhead bar with safety shut down on it.

http://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/two-post-lifts/xpr-10as-lp.aspx

Note it's 137"-145" wide. I also was concerned about door access. I also vote for asymmetrical installation.

This is with a Lincoln LS on it but you can see how much room you have on each side. Of course the downside is the lift will consume more of your shop the bigger it is. Note the angled columns for the asymmetrical install.

No need to worry about 2300 lb on a 2500 lb arm. They have a safety factor built in. I regularly put a Ford F-450-4 door W/4 Wheel Drive which is over 8500 lbs on my 10K lift. This is a BIG, LONG truck!

Holy moly, you pick that up with a 10k asymmetrical? How do you find it performs? And do you have any tips for centering a trucks center of gravity on an asymmetrical?

 

[lakeroadster]

..... tips for centering a trucks center of gravity on an asymmetrical?

No different than on a symmetric... just know the diagram below and load accordingly.

 

[zkdiesel]

Rotary spo10 with three stage arm option or spo12
Have two spo12’s. Most versatile lift ever built. Suzuki Samurai to crew cab diesel dump truck

 

[NitroShark]

I have a Bendpak XPR-10S-168 Symmetrical. 118.5" inside and 145" outside of column's.

No problem with door clearance. I've lifted everything from a Crew cab Dually to a Honda civic.

168" Tall is nice to.

 

[CraigStu]

Since you figure a big truck will only be 30% of your use I would strongly consider asymmetrical. Maybe go up one size for a little more capacity just to feel more comfortable. When you get to a heavy truck, spend a little extra time parking it further forward and adjusting the lift arms to fit.

 

[SlickXJ]

No different than on a symmetric... just know the diagram below and load accordingly.

Were you wary of how trucks look on an asymmetrical at first? Also, do you use any telescoping floor jacks as auxiliary points to balance the load, either in the front or back?

Rotary spo10 with three stage arm option or spo12
Have two spo12’s. Most versatile lift ever built. Suzuki Samurai to crew cab diesel dump truck

Are you able to get out without much trouble? Or do you roll the car into position?

I have a Bendpak XPR-10S-168 Symmetrical. 118.5" inside and 145" outside of column's.

No problem with door clearance. I've lifted everything from a Crew cab Dually to a Honda civic.

168" Tall is nice to.

That would be about 2 feet clearance per side of my XJ in the worst case scenario. On something bigger like an F250, it's a little over 1.5 feet of clearance in the worst case scenario. Are you a larger person or more on the normal side?

 

[SlickXJ]

Since you figure a big truck will only be 30% of your use I would strongly consider asymmetrical. Maybe go up one size for a little more capacity just to feel more comfortable. When you get to a heavy truck, spend a little extra time parking it further forward and adjusting the lift arms to fit.

I think I am strongly considering an asymmetrical. And probably a 12k one as you said. I need to do some more research and see how safe/easy it is putting a truck up on one. I just moved countries, so I don't know any of the shop owners here, or else I'd ask a buddy to go into his shop with a truck on an asymmetrical to see how it is in person. I feel like I'm making a big deal about trucks on an asymmetrical, when in reality it's more than safe with an ALI certified lift and proper lifting technique.

 

[zkdiesel]

Were you wary of how trucks look on an asymmetrical at first? Also, do you use any telescoping floor jacks as auxiliary points to balance the load, either in the front or back?



Are you able to get out without much trouble? Or do you roll the car into position?



That would be about 2 feet clearance per side of my XJ in the worst case scenario. On something bigger like an F250, it's a little over 1.5 feet of clearance in the worst case scenario. Are you a larger person or more on the normal side?

With the three stage arms you can hang a small car off the back and exit it like a symmetrical
4 door pickups front door actually opens past the rack for east of entry. Longer but not long suv are only ones that door doesn’t open full, but still not hard

Don’t know if any 12k asmy lifts

 

[zkdiesel]

I think I am strongly considering an asymmetrical. And probably a 12k one as you said. I need to do some more research and see how safe/easy it is putting a truck up on one. I just moved countries, so I don't know any of the shop owners here, or else I'd ask a buddy to go into his shop with a truck on an asymmetrical to see how it is in person. I feel like I'm making a big deal about trucks on an asymmetrical, when in reality it's more than safe with an ALI certified lift and proper lifting technique.

Long trucks on a asymmetrical lift is sketchy, espically work trucks with commercial beds or welders. Half the time the lift won’t even reach the pickup point then there is way to much weight on rear arms. Crew cab long bed with a dump box I would never lift on a asymmetrical, everyday not a problem on a symetrical

 

[SlickXJ]

I've been doing some research into ALI and CE certification, specifically pertaining to the Atlas OH-10X symmetrical lift. It seems as if the main difference is the the electrical portion. From what I can tell, structurally and hydraulically it will still be up to the task. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[NitroShark]

That would be about 2 feet clearance per side of my XJ in the worst case scenario. On something bigger like an F250, it's a little over 1.5 feet of clearance in the worst case scenario. Are you a larger person or more on the normal side?

I'm 6'1 normal for the height. You need to consider the Bendpak XPR-10S . It's wider and beefier than the Atlas you are looking at. Ex. cables are 1/2 vs 3/8. width Also (inside is about 1" wider etc -just compare specs)

But ......the big deal to me from picking up smaller cars or just cars in general is the 3 stage front arms VS to 2 stage. You will need the extra adjustment for FWD and other/different cars VS Trucks.

 

[zkdiesel]

I'm 6'1 normal for the height. You need to consider the Bendpak XPR-10S . It's wider and beefier than the Atlas you are looking at. Ex. cables are 1/2 vs 3/8. width Also (inside is about 1" wider etc -just compare specs)

But ......the big deal to me from picking up smaller cars or just cars in general is the 3 stage front arms VS to 2 stage. You will need the extra adjustment for FWD and other/different cars VS Trucks.

But that’s only has one set of three stage arms unlike my rotarys with both sets being three stage arms. Makes a difference in my world

 

[NitroShark]

I never found the back arms as being an issue. Just the front is where the 3 stage helps out a bunch with loading on a BendPak Symetrical

 

[zkdiesel]

I never found the back arms as being an issue. Just the front is where the 3 stage helps out a bunch with loading on a BendPak Symetrical

If your trying to rack extreme short wheelbase vehicles or really long wheelbase vehicles and hit the pickup points. Lwb ford trucks are a great example....

 

[lakeroadster]

No different than on a symmetric... just know the diagram below and load accordingly.

Were you wary of how trucks look on an asymmetrical at first? Also, do you use any telescoping floor jacks as auxiliary points to balance the load, either in the front or back?

Not any more so than with lifting any other vehicle.

Yes I have the tall jack stands. I 've never used them to steady the vehicle. I only use them to hold the weight of an item when working on it: Like to hold the rear axle when changing rear springs, etc.

 

[JerseyJeep95]

I have an Atlas OH10x symmetric. I've lifted everything from a Ford Focus to a 4 door Cummins with little issue. My wrangler is a bit of a pain because of the short wheelbase but it's doable.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[firebirdparts]

People seem to be under some sort of delusion that asymmetrical lifts are supposed to be loaded super-heavy on the short arms and light on the long arms. That would certainly ease their pain, but it's not safe. the center of gravity needs to be well within those arms. Right in the middle would be the safest. The car doesn't know where the lift posts are. If it falls, it's going to fall off the arms. It knows where the arms are.

Now, does the lift have to be stronger to do the same job if it's asymmetrical? Of course it does. Absolutely.

 

[SlickXJ]

Well, I got in contact with a Rotary dealer here. That SPO12-HMR is a whopping $10,000 plus tax, but freight is included. I enjoy my wife, so I'm going to pass on that lift lol.

I will continue researching potential lifts I'd like and compare them and come to you guys with what I find.

Again, does anyone know if the main difference between CE and ALI certification is electronics?

I have an Atlas OH10x symmetric. I've lifted everything from a Ford Focus to a 4 door Cummins with little issue. My wrangler is a bit of a pain because of the short wheelbase but it's doable.

Bit of a pain as in you have to have the vehicle perfectly lined up for the lift points to line up safely with the pads?

 

[JerseyJeep95]

Well, I got in contact with a Rotary dealer here. That SPO12-HMR is a whopping $10,000 plus tax, but freight is included. I enjoy my wife, so I'm going to pass on that lift lol.

I will continue researching potential lifts I'd like and compare them and come to you guys with what I find.

Again, does anyone know if the main difference between CE and ALI certification is electronics?



Bit of a pain as in you have to have the vehicle perfectly lined up for the lift points to line up safely with the pads?

You can't swing the arms under without rolling the vehicle forward and back. The frames are short on them from control arm mount to control arm mount.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[vette66bob]

Hello, I have a used Rotary symmetrical. I have a friend who is a lift installer and osha safety inspector and certificator. He installed the lift inspected and tested the operation and for the last 8 years it has been one of the best moves I made for my garage. I raised the ceiling to 12’3’’ giving me enough room to work under my suburban. The only unforeseen difficulty I had is the older unit had to 48” rod come out of the towers. Luckily I was able to cut a hole in the ceiling one side cleared the roof the other I had to put a 6’ plastic pipe out the roof and cap it. It looks like a vent pipe. My main point would be having a professional installer inspect the site and do the job it will be money well spent.

 

[zkdiesel]

Well, I got in contact with a Rotary dealer here. That SPO12-HMR is a whopping $10,000 plus tax, but freight is included. I enjoy my wife, so I'm going to pass on that lift lol.

I will continue researching potential lifts I'd like and compare them and come to you guys with what I find.

Again, does anyone know if the main difference between CE and ALI certification is electronics?



Bit of a pain as in you have to have the vehicle perfectly lined up for the lift points to line up safely with the pads?

Why a
Hmr? I. A regular spo12 rotary is perfect and runs $5800

 

[sierradmax]

I don't think there's 1 lift that can lift passenger cars to 1 tons perfectly. I covered a topic on lifting a CC, LWB, Diesel with an Atlas 10K symmetrical.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=361293

 

[Handyandy23]

Again, does anyone know if the main difference between CE and ALI certification is electronics?

I'm not an expert on lift certifications, nor do I know exactly the differences between ALI and CE, but my understanding is that the electrical portion is the main difference between the two. CE is a European standard so the electrical portion is tested against European electrical best practices, and ALI is tested against North American electrical standards. ALI electrical standards is obviously "more relevant" to North Americans and how our electrical infrastructure works, but in my opinion it doesn't necessarily mean the CE electronics are "wrong".

ALI's website basically says the CE marking means nothing for buying a lift in North America, and Europe only accepts the CE marking as certification. Clearly though neither NA or Europe has some auto lift failure epidemic, and I don't think one continent's set of engineers is superior to the others. If you packed up and moved to Europe and found yourself under a CE lift, I fail to see that as a dangerous thing.

ALI's published "safety factor" is 150% - that is that they overload a lift to 150% to look for any signs of strain or deformation. Some would call that safety, others would call it over-engineering. That means an ALI certified 10,000 lb lift was actually certified by them to 15,000 lbs. To me that's a bit overboard - but it depends on your intended usage. If someone is going to purposely overload their lift by that much, all the safety stamps in the world aren't going to save them. For me, the vehicles that I own all weight less than 4,000 lbs. If my 9,000 lb lift was ALI certified, that would mean it's tested to 12,500 lbs. Do I really need a "certified" lift that is tested to 3x the lifting capacity I require?

It's up to you what you go with, but if you've found a lift that meets all your needs in every way other than it is only CE-certified rather than ALI, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger. The majority of people that are caught up with having a "certified" lift don't even know what the certification standards are - it's just the "certified" stamp on the side that makes people feel warm and fuzzy. All lifts are designed by competent engineers, and if lifts by major companies were failing they couldn't afford to be in business anymore.

 

[lakeroadster]

ALI's published "safety factor" is 150% - that is that they overload a lift to 150% to look for any signs of strain or deformation.

That's a 1.5:1 safety factor. I'm surprised it is that low.

As a point of comparison:

• Air compressor tanks designed to ASME Section VIII-1 are about 3:1
• Elevators are about 11:1
• Many Aerospace designs are 1.1:1

All lifts are designed by competent engineers, and if lifts by major companies were failing they couldn't afford to be in business anymore.

Never say "all".. it's rarely true. You obviously haven't seen this: