T12 high output lights

[halltrail]

Ok, my second post...Ive got an opportunity tomorrow to purchase 8 to 10 - 8' 2 tube t12 high output fluorescent lights. I believe the are electronic ballast with quick start...or something like that. 120v. I can get them for $30 each with the bulbs/tubes. Ive been trying to read everything I can on here on t12 and t8 and t5 lights. My garage is 24x24 12' high No drywall yet but, may at least get the ceiling drywalled right away. They are out of a commercial building..so Im assuming they are quality lights.

Is $30 bucks each a decent deal?

How would these compare to the $50 - $60 t8 lights at home depot?

Im not really a fan of the 8' tubes and understand that t8 is a newer light..but if it's a good deal and they provide a good amount of light and get me by for a couple of years..id be happy. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. I have and continue to research...but I need to make a decision by tomorrow morning.

Thanks in advance.

 

[sevensandeights]

I have 8' T12 HO's in my attached garage and they are very bright and have no problem turning on with outside temps down to the 20's.

However, I will be putting T8's in my detached garage because everything I have read indicates that T12 are obsolete and are being phased out.

New T12 HO's cost about $55 for just the fixture and ballast so your deal sounds good so long as you can still get bulbs in 10 years.

 

[memento]

I have 8' T12 HO that I just put in:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73434

My fixtures were $45 each and I got the bulbs from 1000bulbs.com for less than $4 each. It sounds to me like you found a super deal. I'd go with it!

T12 is being phased out, but they were VERY popular and are still popular, so I have no doubt that bulbs will be available for more than 10 years.

 

[halltrail]

ok, thanks guys. I appreciate the help. Ill probably pick them up.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Our factory uses them, 27,000 sq ft building. 5 bad ballasts in 21 years, and bulb replacement is a rather low percentage, considering the number of units installed. I like them.

 

[Norcal]

I had them in my shop,now main lighting is T8 but the perimeter is still lighted F96T12 & F48T12 HO fixtures, HO is well suited for colder areas, please note that a lot of electomagnetic ballasts are no longer being manufactured as of July 2010, & am hearing the same in 2 years for T12 lamps,but need to verify that ....That being said if can stockpile extra lamps & a few ballasts it will do well for many years.

 

[memento]

It might be true that in 2012, NEW T12 fixtures will no longer be manufactured, but the lamps will continue to be made for many years to come.

 

[Cuda]

It might be true that in 2012, NEW T12 fixtures will no longer be manufactured, but the lamps will continue to be made for many years to come.

I hope you're right memento. I have a dozen explosion proof fixtures that have the 4 ft T-12's in them and there is no way I could relamp them to t-5's that I can see.

 

[Falcon67]

http://www.nlb.org/index.cfm?pid=10213&cdid=10606

Also found this:
[FONT=&quot]Lamp and Ballast information on government mandated phase out.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]January 1, 2008[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Can not manufacture or import mercury vapor ballasts or new luminaires with mercury vapor ballasts for general lighting applications[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]March, 2008 [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]DOE begins fluorescent ballast rule making to be finalized in 2011 and effective in 2014[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Will cover ballasts that operate[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 4-ft. medium bi-pin lamps and 2-ft. u-lamps [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 8-ft. single-pin Slimline IS lamps[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 8-ft. RDC HO lamps[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] May also cover ballasts that operate T5 and T5 HO miniature bi-pin lamps[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]June 16, 2008[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]EISA 2007 Expanded line voltage, medium screw-base, incandescent reflector lamp that must meet standards originally enacted by EPAct 1992[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Added smaller diameter (now greater than 2.25 inches instead of greater than 2.75 inches in diameter)[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Added more shapes that must qualify: BR, ER, BPAR (OPRA)[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Exempted[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] BR30, BR40 and ER40 lamps rated at less than 65W[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] BR30, ER30, BR40 and ER40 lamps rated at less than or equal to 50W[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] R20 lamps rated at less than or equal to 45W[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]January 1, 2009[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]EISA 2007 Metal halide luminaires manufactured (or imported) operating 150-500W lamps shall contain pulse start metal halide ballasts with minimum ballast efficiency of 88%[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Other ballast options that also qualify are not yet available in the market place[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]July 1, 2009[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Begins phase out of non-qualifying T12 ballasts (magnetic) for operation of T12 energy-saving lamps[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4-ft. T12 medium bi-pin RS and that 2-ft. U-lamps that operate on the same ballasts[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8-ft. T12 Silmline IS[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8-ft. T12 HO RDC [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]July 14, 2009 [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]DOE Lamp rulemaking for incandescent reflector lamps (IRL) and general service fluorescent lamps (GSFL) finalized to be effective beginning July 14, 2012[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Summer-Fall, 2009[/FONT][FONT=&quot] NEMA and energy advocates work to develop alternative language to the outdoor-roadway lighting language included in Waxman-Markey U.S. House bill HR2452[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Expected to modify or eliminate the exemption for IRL lamps established by EISA 2007 and establish dates for future DOE rulemakings; likely published by July 1, 2011 to be effective July 1, 2013[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Expected to establish an end date for the manufacture and import of mercury vapor lamps for general illumination applications; likely effective 2016[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Nov. or Dec., 2009[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Next phase of DOE fluorescent ballast rule making expected to be finalized in 2011 and effective in 2012[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[Falcon67]

[FONT=&quot]July 1, 2010[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Can not manufacture or import non-qualifying T12 ballasts (magnetic) even as replacement ballasts that operate full wattage or energy-saving [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4-ft. T12 medium bi-pin RS and that 2-ft. U-lamps that operate on the same ballasts[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8-ft. T12 Silmline IS[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8-ft. T12 HO RDC [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Exceptions[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Ballasts that dim to 50% or lower[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Residential only low-power factor ballasts[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] T12 HO that start down to -20 degrees F[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]January 1, 2011[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]EISA 2007 Can not manufacture or import today’s 100W line voltage, medium screw-base general service incandescent lamp in CA and NV[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Replacement can be no more than 72W[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]July 14, 2012[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2009 DOE Lamp Rulemaking standards effective for IRL and GSFL[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Covers reflector lamps greater than 2.25 inches in diameter, 40W-205W, line voltage, medium screw-base[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Can not manufacture or import today’s standard halogen lamps; replacements likely to use IR technology and/or other advanced technologies[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Maintains the IRL exemptions established by EISA 2007[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] BR30, BR40 and ER40 lamps rated at less than 65W[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] BR30, ER30, BR40 and ER40 lamps rated at less than or equal to 50W[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] R20 lamps rated at less than or equal to 45W[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Covers 4-ft. T8-T12 medium bi-pin, 2-ft. u-lamps T8-T12 medium bi-pin, 8-ft. T8-T12 IS Slimline, 8-ft. T8-T12 HO RDC, 4-ft. T5 and T5 HO miniature bi-pin[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Can not manufacture or import many of today’s popular T12 fluorescent lamps[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Can not manufacture or import today’s 2800 lumen 4-ft. T8 fluorescent lamps as well as other T8 700/SP series lamps[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Maintains exemptions for high CRI, cold temperature, etc.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]January 1, 2012[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]EISA 2007 Can not manufacture or import today’s 100W line voltage, medium screw-base general service incandescent lamp[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]EISA 2007 Can not manufacture or import today’s 75W line voltage, medium screw-base general service incandescent lamp in CA and NV[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Replacement can be no more than 53W[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]January 1, 2013[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]EISA 2007 Can not manufacture or import today’s 75W line voltage, medium screw-base general service incandescent lamp[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]EISA 2007 Can not manufacture or import today’s 40W and 60W line voltage, medium screw-base general service incandescent lamp in CA and NV[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Replacements can be no more than 29W and 43W, respectively[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]January 1, 2014[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]EISA 2007 Can not manufacture or import today’s 40W and 60W line voltage, medium screw-base general service incandescent lamp[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2014 [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]DOE rulemaking on fluorescent ballast efficiency finalized in 2011 becomes effective sometime this year. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]There are other DOE rulemakings to set standards for testing for standby power for fluorescent and metal halide ballasts and we expect a rulemaking to set standards for metal halide ballasts beyond those established by EISA 2007. There are also provisions for other DOE rulemakings affecting lighting that will replace standards listed above in the future.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[Falcon67]

I personally would not buy a T12 anything, no matter how good the deal.

 

[halltrail]

I went ahead and picked up 9 of them for $25 a piece including the lights. They are 110 watt. Ill take some pictures later and post them up. I know they are just lights right...lol. Thanks for all the help and opinions...it is much appreciated.

 

[trythis]

Exemptions for electronic t12 that start below -20 F

I just bought the t12 HO ballasts from Home depot. By themselves they are $40 and there are few options for t12 HO available. Homedepot's aren't the cheapest t12 HO ballasts but the cheapest source for the GE proline. I have a box of new t12 HO bulbs I got for free, and fixtures that are t12 HO free that had old magnetic ballasts. HO have their own pin style so swapping them to a regular t12 is not happening and would be silly anyway.

The new electronic t12 HO ballasts have major advantages over the old magnetic start T12 bulbs. HTey work the same as any t8 ballasts and prevent the early burnout flicker and hums that the old kind had.
The fixtures I have are heavy duty steel and sturdy fixtures are pricey. The new 4 t8 fixtures at the Depot don't look they they would handle one smack with a pipe, or board. (I build stuff, and am not a mechanic, this happens frequently even with lights 14 foot up)

I am not in the crowd that thinks T8 outlast t12 unless you are comparing a 1970's ballast to a 2010 electronic ballast.

I would say if your new (old) fixtures have bad ballasts, consider the GE Proline T12 HO ballasts from Home depot. They are very easy to install, work at just about any voltage from 100 to 277 and have all the benefits of T8 except they might cost a little bit more to run them. Some cheaper ones have higher harmonic distortion. I am willing to bet the cheaper full fixtures with ballasts included are not as high of quality.

Its not always easy to find T12 HO bulbs, the lowes in St louis dont carry them, the home depots do.

 

[Norcal]

Just a FYI, the old electromagnetic ballasts will outlast the electronic ballasts by far, the planned obsolesance is built into the electronic models & one will not be finding them in service 20 years from now like the models they are replacing where one could find 20-30 + YO ballasts still in service.

 

[halltrail]

Well, I guess that is good to know...since I was told they were electronic...but it turns out they are magnetic.

 

[trythis]

Just a FYI, the old electromagnetic ballasts will outlast the electronic ballasts by far, the planned obsolesance is built into the electronic models & one will not be finding them in service 20 years from now like the models they are replacing where one could find 20-30 + YO ballasts still in service.

That doesn't surprise me at all. I am hoping that the better ones will last longer.

I dont think this reduced longevity is limited to T12.

 

[Norcal]

That doesn't surprise me at all. I am hoping that the better ones will last longer.

I dont think this reduced longevity is limited to T12.

My comments are directed at T5 & T8 electronic ballasts, BTW there are F96T8/HO, lamps/ballasts/fixtures available but not cheap.

 

[tfi racing]

Just a FYI, the old electromagnetic ballasts will outlast the electronic ballasts by far, the planned obsolesance is built into the electronic models & one will not be finding them in service 20 years from now like the models they are replacing where one could find 20-30 + YO ballasts still in service.

The electronic ballasts are warrantied for five years,and guess what?Most of them mysteriously die after 60 months or so,almost as if it was planned or if they were on an internal timer...