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Tab and Slot / Certiflat Weld Table

houdni

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Feb 22, 2011
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83
My Tab and Slot / Certiflat weld table just rolled in this afternoon and Im this far along...i didnt get to take a last photo shot of squaring the table up with threaded rods.. table is a fab block 3642 ...and they also have some videos up on youtube.... table and plates are 1/4"

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CGT80

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I ordered two 30x30 fab blocks and two 30" wings. I have a small space and don't beat on my tools. The quality should beat the tiny tables I have seen around and the price is better than where the build pro tables start and the build pro is too wide to leave setup.

tagged
 
OP
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houdni

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Feb 22, 2011
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Where did you buy it and how much did it cost?

google is your friend ;)

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just like the youtube video...you dont want to weld on the table top to cause any pulls....only a 3/4 in weld bead in the cross sections just to lock it in...you dont need to go crazy on welding everything...heat is your enemy...

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Fluxion

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I started a thread about these a few weeks ago and didn't get any response. I was considering one of the pro tables but the fab blocks look really nice. I wonder how useful the dropped edges will be on the fab block?
 

CGT80

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At first, I thought the pro table would be a good choice with a nice, low, cost. It would beat the particle board top that I work on now.

After thinking about what size to get and how I would use it, the blocks made more sense. Right now, I have an old Cman tool cabinet in the middle of one end of my one car garage and I work on that for projects that are too big for the two 18"x48" benches that sit in the far corner, which also have my vice mounted to them. The Cman top is 22x54 inches.

I have space for a 30" deep top where the Cman cabinet is. 36" is too deep to walk around all the time. The current top is about 2 feet from the roll up door. 5-6' is a good length for that work top.

My Plan:
Build my own base with extendable legs, using acme thread (from this thread: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=281866 )
Bolt two 30x30 fab blocks to the base to equal 30x60 inches.
2 12"x30" wings can extend the 5' table to 6' or 7' and 30" deep, OR they can go on the side and make it 42" deep and 5' long, OR they can be tipped up on the top to create a 90 degree surface for clamping. The sides of the blocks will allow these wings to bolt on or additional clamps or jigs to go vertical or even wider on the table. If I needed more space, additional blocks will bolt up to the two I will already have.

The blocks are 1/4" instead of 3/16" which is what the pro tables are, and they allow more options down the road.

My order came to $1215 for two blocks and two wings. Build Pro tables start at about $2k. I had a coupon for 15% off and the company claims the tables are all on sale right now due to them buying a few truck loads of steel at a good rate. I learned of these tables after the sale so I don't know what they sold for in the past. Shipping ate up that 15% savings at $186 to SoCal.

The local steel shop had the small strong hand tools tables on display and they seem like a great idea, but they are probably 1/8" with a cheap base and little to stiffen the top. The clamps look decent so I may get the tooling through that shop and use one of their 20% off coupons when I do.
 

CGT80

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Nope, they are real!

What do you think of the idea?

It seems like you would be the type to prefer a thick plate to weld stuff to and then just grind it off when you are done, to save the money on the table............or did I guess wrong?
 

Fluxion

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Topeka. Kansas
Its gonna be a nice looking table CGT80! When I mentioned the pro table in my post above I was referring to the pro table from weldtables.com, maybe the 2x4 foot table. I can't really afford 2 grand on a table right now. I am finishing up a CNC router that I'm almost up to $7k now.
 

Bigblue&Goldie

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Cool concept and more affordable than I would've guessed! The only downfall I see is its not overly flat, and I can only imagine it would be susceptible to warping. These tables are perfect for a garage fabricator or for products that don't require extreme loads or tolerances. I wouldn't think small tig tack's would be much of an issue. I might consider a 2x4' for my garage.......I just have to keep my friends from grinding male genitalia into it like my last table!
 

nine4gmc

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Post #9 is interesting, the versatility makes it a really great idea and the price point makes it affordable for the home shop. I like it even more now.


Sent from my iThingy using Tapatalk
 

CGT80

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Its gonna be a nice looking table CGT80! When I mentioned the pro table in my post above I was referring to the pro table from weldtables.com, maybe the 2x4 foot table. I can't really afford 2 grand on a table right now. I am finishing up a CNC router that I'm almost up to $7k now.

Yes, we were referring to the same pro table. The pro looks like a steal of a deal compared to what was for sale locally, but this is Garage Journal.......GO BIG OR GO HOME! So I went big :lol_hitti

This one ran just over $1200 so it saved me $800 over buying the other brand (I think it is build pro-has 6" wide plates with about 2" gaps between), which is also too big for my space.

I have been working on a CNC Plasma/router table as well. Over the last week, I finally built a box to house the electronics and installed them. The frame and gantry are built and I have built my torch holder but need to refine it. The water table still needs built and cables connected to the electronics and software installed on the computer. The fab table should go nicely with the CNC table.
 
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CGT80

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Cool concept and more affordable than I would've guessed! The only downfall I see is its not overly flat, and I can only imagine it would be susceptible to warping. These tables are perfect for a garage fabricator or for products that don't require extreme loads or tolerances. I wouldn't think small tig tack's would be much of an issue. I might consider a 2x4' for my garage.......I just have to keep my friends from grinding male genitalia into it like my last table!

The manufacturer claims it is accurate to 15 thousandths over the surface of the table. That isn't as good as the tables that cost thousands of dollars, but it is far more flat than the particle board top, plywood bench top, saw horses with scrap steel on them, or the concrete driveway I build on now. The work I do does not require extreme precision, but I think this table should be as flat as a section of plate I might have bought from the local steel shop, especially when you consider that plate flexes and bends and is not perfectly flat to start.

I don't know if you watched the videos or checked out the web page for the tables, but there is a theory behind how the table is cut and built/welded.............hopefully that proves to be true after I build mine. Hopefully houdni can put a straight edge on his and show how it turned out.

They claim to run the steel in groups so that all the parts are the same thickness. It is laser cut and the idea is that the laser is extremely accurate so that the edges are square to each other. When you clamp the top plate to the square edges of the supporting ribs, the top should end up flat. You clamp the parts together and the tighter the clamps the better the fit. When it doesn't move anymore, it should be flat, and you shouldn't be able to clamp too much, as the steel should not compress. The welds are only on the edge of the supports, where the slots are in the top. The direction that the welds pull the steel, should be in the same direction as the clamps. The welds are small and are done in a certain order. I bought the theory, and the product, but time will tell.

By tacks, I hope you don't mean to the actual table. I will not weld to the surface of mine and that is the whole point of these tables. You need clamps and jigs to hold parts. You can use standoffs to get the work above the table. This would put less heat into the table if you do weld out the seams of a project while it is clamped. I am not sure if the heat from fully welding an item will effect the fab table. It seems like it shouldn't. There is a lot of cross support and mass, but also a lot of holes to allow airflow for it to cool. One side would be clamped to the table anyway, if you don't use riser blocks.

These tables are a compromise between other options out there, but I think the advantages will outweigh the compromises. I am a serious hobbyist and do occasional jobs for others. I just finished a decent size job building some sign frames for a local college. The biggest one was 3x3x3/16" steel square tube and was 36"x82.5" and two of us were able to pick it up. Most of the projects are smaller.

Your friends deserve a shock to the nuts from a high frequency TIG torch for drawing "junk" on your table. That would piss me off. I might use a sheet of 16ga steel or some hardboard to cover the top when I don't need to clamp parts down. The top will already be smooth and flat so the thin material would protect it nicely. My goal is to have the base raise enough that can start out as low as 24" from the ground and go up to about 42" (the height of my bench vice that I often weld small parts in). The extra thickness (6" thick) of the blocks will complicate the leg height a bit. The pro tables are only 2" thick.

There isn't a lot of info on this brand of table, on the net (they claim that they have built them for years, but have only offered them to the public for a year) so I will post something up on how mine turn out. They should be about 10 days out from being ready to ship and another 4 days for shipping.
 
OP
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houdni

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Feb 22, 2011
Messages
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The tacks go in the tab section of the table....nothing is welded on the actual table surface...it's only to tie in the ribs slightly more....when I turn it over...I will post more pix
 
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ilovevocs

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I'm saving up for this fab table.......and the trophy truck sitting on it!!!!

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Lol, looks like that particular one has a chassis that is a little out of square at the time of the pic.

That is a nice table. Any idea what shop it came from?



OP, I am buying the theory behind this table and am interested in seeing how it performs. Thanks for sharing your build.
 
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Bigblue&Goldie

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Lol, looks like that particular one has a chassis that is a little out of square at the time of the pic.

That is a nice table. Any idea what shop it came from?



OP, I am buying the theory behind this table and am interested in seeing how it performs. Thanks for sharing your build.

I can't say who's shop it is or who's truck it is, but that truck was in a pretty bad crash. They pretty much had to rebuild the whole front end and whole rearend. The table itself was massive and drilled/threaded across the whole surface. The surface was also Blanchard ground for flatness. Let's just say the rest of the shop is equally impressive!
 
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dewalt378g

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Mar 17, 2012
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I guess that explains (the truck crash) why they have a forklift parked between a shelf and a VBS as an anchor for some frame pulling.


But back to your table.....I first saw them on ebay and was thinking of getting one of these myself. I can't wait to see yours when your done.
 

Refuse1

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Feb 25, 2012
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Iowa
My order came to $1215 for two blocks and two wings. Build Pro tables start at about $2k. I had a coupon for 15% off and the company claims the tables are all on sale right now due to them buying a few truck loads of steel at a good rate. I learned of these tables after the sale so I don't know what they sold for in the past. Shipping ate up that 15% savings at $186 to SoCal.
.

Where did you get the 15% off coupon ?
 
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houdni

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Feb 22, 2011
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this is a great table for the hobbyist...sure its not perfectly flat...but your concern should be more of weld pull than being at absolute 0...sure its not the thickest material...its not a stronghand nor does it have the price of a stronghand....heck even stronghand is the cheaper bottom end of a fab shops table ....

this is the top surface that you tack weld...just to hold / lock in the ribs further...and of course you dont want a big bead as the heat would cause it to warp

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CGT80

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Where did you get the 15% off coupon ?

I signed up on their email list, from the web site, and they had a coupon special for new customers. I don't know if it is still going on. They claim to not send spam, and so far I haven't seen any from other companies.
 

MarkG

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Interesting concept, but hopefully you never have to fasten anything from underneath through the 'framework forest'! :S I still think I'd rather put all that steel into the top.
 

hsvtoolfool

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Rocket City USA
Overall, I really like these. Essentially, it's a torsion box design. Very
strong and stable for the amount of materials used. Once squared up
and welded, it should remain true. I think 36x36 will be the right size
for me someday.
 
OP
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houdni

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and its complete! hope you enjoyed it all...this table isnt for the chassis / car/ truck builder and it was never intended to be...but a table that is flat for the hobbyist fabricator....it isnt perfectly flat...and you really shouldnt worry about that...can you really go up to a project and say...hey...your .050" off....your main concern is weld pull...but this table will help you with that as you will be able to square things up quickly and lock them in place to produce a better product... :rocker: happy fabricating!

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CGT80

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houdni, would you mind sharing how close to flat you were able to get. Did it turn out at the 15 thousandths that the company claims you should get?

That looks good! Did you buy any clamps yet? Have you thought about clear coating the table to keep it from rusting? I use a lacquer over some of my metal projects that might be good to prevent surface rust on the bottom, sides, and maybe inside the holes. I am not sure I would coat the top as it will get lots of use and is easy to wipe down if rust starts to form. The humidity in SoCal isn't like other states but this year is an el ninyo (spelling?) and my garage floor floods easily. Rusty metal *****........except when that is the finish your client is actually requesting.
 
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houdni

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i cannot say how flat it is...i would need a machinist rule with a feeler gauge to do that test....all i have is my naked eye :p

as for clamps...i just had threaded rods to snug everything down...i wiped the table down with oil...not sure what direction ill take the bare metal...powder coat? or maybe just por 15...
 

Superbec

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.i wiped the table down with oil...not sure what direction ill take the bare metal...powder coat? or maybe just por 15...

Welding tables should remain free of paint or powder coat, some wd40 or anti spatter will take care of the surface rust, just don't leave it outside

my welding table has almost no rust after 5 years , once evry few months I clean it with brake cleaner than squirt some wd40 on it.

as for flatness, I wouldn't worry about it that much , most of the profiles you will weld are not that flat anyway, just don't hammer it , it's not an anvil

good job btw
 

hsvtoolfool

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Would we be skeptical if they spec'd the overall flatness to within 1/64"
rather than 15 thou'? It's practically the same tolerance, and plenty
accurate for a welding table or jig. I normally use a tape measure
rather than a micrometer while setting up a welding jig, especially
when distances are measured in feet rather than inches. I'd be ecstatic
if my projects turn out to be within 1/32" square much less 1/64".

I suspect the flatness spec is derived from the thickness tolerance for 1/4"
hot-rolled plate steel, which I read is about 0.030". The laser-cut inner
supports are extremely precise (probably less than 1 thou) and "pull" the
top flat. If the top plate had a perfect thickness tolerance, then I expect
the flatness would be limited by the laser cuts.
 

Superbec

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Table looks great!

Superbec, be careful using break cleaner, if you havent heard the horror stories it's worth a read.

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?182941-DANGER-using-BrakeCleaner-to-clean-your-Parts

oh, I know about that, it's only the brake cleaner with chloride that's bad , In Europe I think it was banned for ~10 years now.

I was a weldor/fabricator worked mostly stainless and aluminium, I used bc for years every day , I think it's far better for your health than acetone.



@Houdini , I wouldn't paint the undertable, maybe you will have to weld a small production in the same spot it will heat up and make fumes... the legs sure it's gonna look more OE
 
OP
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houdni

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Feb 22, 2011
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Maybe I'll just ******** some zinc anode bars....and see how that helps with the rust
 

bdbecker

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Anode bars will not do anything for you - there needs to be some sort of pathway for the ions to travel through, usually water or soil, which is why you see anode bars used on ships, or on steel structures that are in contact with soil. Air is not considered a good conductor.

WD-40 is really your best bet. We use Bluco (major $$$) here at work and have no issues with rust. Even during the humid summers, as long as you keep everything wiped down, you will not have any problems.
 

CGT80

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Would we be skeptical if they spec'd the overall flatness to within 1/64"
rather than 15 thou'? It's practically the same tolerance, and plenty
accurate for a welding table or jig. I normally use a tape measure
rather than a micrometer while setting up a welding jig, especially
when distances are measured in feet rather than inches. I'd be ecstatic
if my projects turn out to be within 1/32" square much less 1/64".

I suspect the flatness spec is derived from the thickness tolerance for 1/4"
hot-rolled plate steel, which I read is about 0.030". The laser-cut inner
supports are extremely precise (probably less than 1 thou) and "pull" the
top flat. If the top plate had a perfect thickness tolerance, then I expect
the flatness would be limited by the laser cuts.

I did the math in my head when I read the 15 thousandths. 16ga @ roughly 63 thousandths is easy to remember as 1/16th of an inch. The manufacturer claims to measure and then group their steel so that they get more consistency in the final product. Of course, I don't know if they really do it, how they go about it, or if it makes any difference, but they are still subject to how flat and consistent the raw material is.

It would be great if my projects were within a 16th of an inch but sometimes I am doing great to get them within an 1/8th. I should put a straight edge across my current table tops for the heck of it. They will be no where close to 15 thousandths. Welding causes the parts to pull as well, and the accuracy of the cuts on the steel plays a role in how it turns out.

Feeler gauges, that I have seen, are listed in thousandths and I am sure the company has put a straight edge and feeler gauge on their finished tables to see how close to flat they are.....especially if they are making a claim to 15 thousandths and don't want to be caught with their pants down. In their video, they state that they build tables quite often for customers who don't want to do it themselves.

The easiest place to check a project is to put a square on the corners. That is also an easy way for a customer to check your work. Same goes for a level. I installed a set of shower doors one time and the walls were not plumb. I set the door frame plumb and level so it would slide easily. The homeowner checked it with a level and was impressed that I got it on the money.
 

CGT80

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Messages
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I got a call this morning to come pick up a 500 pound package. :rocker:

It was the two 30x30 fab block tables, two 30x12 wings, and a couple boxes of scraps cut from the tables that they threw in after I requested it (for welding practice or small brackets).

It was packaged very nicely with cardboard wrapped around most of the items, which were taped shut, and then straps and plastic on the entire pallet. Now I need to get some all thread and nuts to use as clamps, for the assembly. I still need to figure out my table base and adjustable legs so I can order parts for that. It might be a couple weeks before I get the table all done.

Welding web had the inserta clamps on sale for $12.99 ea. so I picked up a bunch of those. Hopefully the slip in style will work well and not damage the holes. Tab and slot said they would work fine, on either this forum, or welding web.
 
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