Table Saw

[Saw]

You could also drop a bench top into a cut out of a sheet of plywood, build a bracket to hold the saw level with the plywood. Add two by fours to perimeter and a few cross braces for stiffness, the added surface will let you focus on the cut versus fighting to keep the sheet on the saw. Add some legs, old card table, milk crates screwed together, 2" X 4"s, whatever you have lying around. Screw down a straight edge and you can cut any width.

I haven't done this but considered it many times after cutting sheet goods on a small bench top saw.

 

[Gerald O]

Got an older Craftsman 10" beltdrive last year with the cast iron table and extensions. $150. I needed it primarily for ripping trim to a fairly high accuracy. Had to go thorugh the whole thing to clean and adjust it.

For framing work crosscuts I use a sliding compound mitre saw that easily beats the table saw for practicality for that task. For precise crosscuts on the table saw I made a wooden 'sled'.

I'd love to have a high quality cabinet table saw, but can't justify the price or space requirements.

 

[BikerDad]

You don't need a table saw for cutting 2x4's and plywood. One of the most difficult jobs one could think up is moving a full sized sheet of heavy plywood through a table saw. And 2x4's are worse! Get a chop saw (for the 2x4's) and a track saw. Even though I have 4 table saws, my Festool track saw has revolutionized my shop. Found mine for $350 on c/l.

To the OP:

This. Unless you are going to be doing bevel cuts and joinery cuts with the tablesaw, you can do everything you've mentioned using a good chop saw (aka Compound Miter Saw or Sliding Compound Miter Saw) and a circular saw with a guide. The track saw mentioned is a high dollar circular saw solution that is DA BOMB for cutting sheet goods. I have a good American made Delta Contractor's Saw that I use for most of my rip cuts and many crosscuts, but I still usually break sheet goods down with my Porter-Cable sidewinder (aka direct drive circular saw) and cross cut a lot of stuff on my DeWalt chop saw. It's not difficult to cut a full size sheet of plywood on a table saw, IF you're set up for it. The catch is, setting up for it generally means taking up a LOT of room. Not so when you take the saw to the work, instead of the work to the saw.

 

[kacey2]

Zcar751 is right on..

 

[theoldwizard1]

You can't go wrong with an old Craftsman. They'll run forever,

TRUTH !

Look for one with a 10" blade, cast iron table and left and right cast iron extensions with a belt drive motor. Don't be afraid of a some rust, you can easily clean it. Buy a new carbide tip blade. More teeth = smoother finish cut. Less teeth = faster cutting.

If you are new at woodworking (or just not good at it like myself), get your plywood cut down to at least rough size at the store. Handling 4'x8' sheets is a ***** unless you have a helper and/or extra outboard supports.

A 10" sliding miter saw is much better for cutting 2by's. I have used a DeWalt battery trim saw with a carbide blade to cut a lot of 2x4 and 2x6s. Light, easy to use, several dozen cuts on a battery charge. I almost never get out either of my old circular saw,

 

[PatStroud]

Grizzly Industrials has a great selection for table saws. I've had one for 18 years (cabinet) and been more than satisfied - it's been a work horse. ............ Also regardless of the saw you go with, invest into a Forrest Blade. Makes a poor saw good and a good saw great. Worth every $$$.

 

[mtmgtz]

Please... Just get yourself a 10% coupon for The Home Depot and buy the RIDGID 10 in. 13 Amp Professional Table Saw. You cannot beat this saw for the price. I love, love, love it. You will also find many great write up and video reviews of this saw. It will cost you right up to your $500 budget, and it is worth every penny.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-13-Amp-10-in-Professional-Table-Saw-R4512/202500206

Have to agree with this one. Excellent saw for the money. I have a Ridgid TS3660 and it has been flawless. More of a portable (wheels around on concrete) cabinet style saw. Belt driven. Mine has cast iron wings but I think they are stamped steel now. You do not want a direct drive or gear driven table saw. I've used many large cabinet saws (powermatics, Deltas, etc.) and the Ridgid cabinet style table saws are pretty good for what you pay and the ability to move it around if you don't use it often. Newer craftsman stuff is junk. The OLDer stuff is good.

Don't buy a portable contractor saw if you ever plan on doing any finer finish woodworking. Those saws just aren't all that accurate and likely won't last as long. If you're just cutting 2x4's and plywood all day, it's ok.

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

Newer craftsman stuff is junk. The OLDer stuff is good.

This bears repeating.

 

[ez-duzit]

Should be a sticky.

 

[CTyankee]

Hi,
New member, first post. I been reading this forum and it is great!
I am looking for recommendations for a table saw. Like to keep the price under $500 if I can get a good one for that or less. I wouldn't use it much.

Thanks,
Steve

See below. You can run around looking at used saws on CL....OR you can go buy this Dewalt and a good blade and do probably 99.9 % of what you want. It's a good small, portable saw with the best fence system(rack and pinion) in it's price range...and well above in lots of cases. We use this saw daily in a commercial setting and it's held up unbelievably well. It's more than capable of handling anything the average HO is going to need a table saw for.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-10-in-Compact-Job-Site-Table-Saw-with-Site-Pro-Modular-Guarding-System-DWE7480/204511988

I got one of these because I threw the store manager $150 for the open-box unit (it helped that I was buying $1,000 worth of other stuff)

I only use it once or twice a month and I have no complaints. With a good blade it EATS 2x lumber, and the rip fence is stronger than it looks. For the 10-12 cuts I usually need to make, I just put it on the floor and kneel next to it. We two-man walk full sheets through it once in a while.

It's not a Unisaw or a big old cast-iron Craftsman, but this little dude does all I need and it hangs on the wall out of my hair the rest of the time.

 

[Bevis]

Anyone know anything about an old Delta 1160 10" Tilt-Top Table Saw ?

 

[Bricen18]

I got a hardly used Bosch 3000. For 300$. It has been a good saw. I liked the quality over the newer craftsman models. Mostly the used saws were high priced and pretty rough.

 

[mdbeck1]

Anyone know anything about an old Delta 1160 10" Tilt-Top Table Saw ?

I've got an old tilt-top that might be an 1160. I don't remember the model number off hand. Mine is fully operational and I've been building some bookcases with it. I prefer it over the "compact" saw that I have. It makes a much smoother cut and has a larger top.

I think that Red Leader over on the "1950s Craftsman retro remodel" thread (http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103099) had one. Although you would probably have better luck looking on the OWWM site (http://www.old-woodworking-tools.net/delta-1160-table-saw.html).

 

[bigguns69]

I got rid of my craftsman contractor table saw because I never used it, because it was a gutless *************. I have used a delta contractor as well with similar results. For years I have scribed lines and used my Milwaukee handheld saw to cut plywood on saw horses with (3) 2x4 underneath to support the cutoff materials. For fine carpentry work I would then belt sand the edge to the scribed line for a clean cut edge. I recently finished a ceiling where I needed to cut several hundred 24x24 and 32x32 plywood square tiles. Given the quantity of cuts I decided to try the dewalt portable table saws from review comments and playing with them at stores. I bought a used DW744 off of craigslist for $200 and tried it out. It was a much better saw then the contractor saws I had used in the past, plus it was portable. I then sold it and bought a brand new DWE7491 for the 32" cuts and am plenty pleased with it. This saw has reestablished my faith in the purpose to have a table saw. The fence is rack and pinion, front and rear, so it is easy to adjust, stays square and locks in place. The blade has a ribbing knife to keep the stock from pinching the blade once cut. The blade tip speed is higher than the contractor saws, so it cuts like a dream. I can rip 2x material all day long with out concern with kick backs, gives quality cuts, and quick production. I highly recommend the portable dewalt table saws. I will own it for the rest of my life.

 

[wssix99]

This is one of the most dangerous power tools one can purchase. I just witnessed someone cutting all 5 of their fingers on one. (One was completely amputated.) It was a very bad day for everyone, particularly the gentleman operating the saw.

Saw Stop is the only way to go: http://www.sawstop.com/

One of these has been on my wish list for some time. The deal I have with myself is that I rent table saws until I can pay to afford one of these.

IMO - Buying a table saw is a lot like adopting a Tiger cub. They are cute and may work out fine for a while - but it's only a matter if time before the statistics add up and it eats you.

 

[LB-1911]

I just witnessed someone cutting all 5 of their fingers on one. (One was completely amputated.) It was a very bad day for everyone, particularly the gentleman operating the saw.

Since you witnessed it can you answer any of the following questions?

How old was the operator?
Any known impairments?
Experience level?
Previous experience with the specific saw in question?
What was being attempted?
Blade guard and riving knife in place?
Were push sticks being used?
Featherboard?
Height of blade above workpiece?

 

[mtmgtz]

This is one of the most dangerous power tools one can purchase. I just witnessed someone cutting all 5 of their fingers on one. (One was completely amputated.) It was a very bad day for everyone, particularly the gentleman operating the saw.

Saw Stop is the only way to go: http://www.sawstop.com/

One of these has been on my wish list for some time. The deal I have with myself is that I rent table saws until I can pay to afford one of these.

IMO - Buying a table saw is a lot like adopting a Tiger cub. They are cute and may work out fine for a while - but it's only a matter if time before the statistics add up and it eats you.

All machinery is dangerous. If you're using a riving knife, featherboard, proper guards and push sticks, you are pretty safe with a table saw. Most people get hurt by removing safety devices (I'm guilty) and making hasty cuts or cuts that leave little margin for a slip of the hand.

You just need to remember every time you turn a table saw on where your fingers are and where they will need to be while cutting a piece. And take your time. The only time I had a close call was when I was hastily ripping down some 2x4's and the saw grabbed it and threw the 8' 2x4 into a wall behind me. That was on a 220v cabinet table saw. Scared the bajesus out of me.

That said, SawStop is a great saw. Impressive how quick it responds to sensing flesh.

 

[retfr8flyr]

A table saw is not any more dangerous then lots of other tools. If you use common sense, proper safety procedures and pay attention to what you are doing, you wont have any problems. Most table saw accidents are from kickback, not from the blade cutting someone. The safety features on the new saws, decent blade guards, riving knives and better fences make the new saws much safer then the old saws.

I can't believe it took 3 pages for someone to start the Sawstop mantra. The OP is talking about a $500 budget, show me a Sawstop saw that he can get for $500. Sawstop has a great technology but it's not the "end all accidents" for table saws that is portrayed by them. You can still get hurt on a Sawstop, if you do something stupid but you should still have all your fingers. Lots of guys just can't afford a Sawstop but can still operate a table saw safely.

 

[ez-duzit]

This is one of the most dangerous power tools one can purchase...

Saw Stop is the only way to go...

No, it isn't.

I'm 70 and, like many other old woodworkers, still have all my fingers. And didn't grow up with all kinds of government mandated safety mechanisms. There are no splitters or blade guards or saw-stops on any of my table saws because I prefer them that way. I want to be able to see the cut. And I want to be able to get my fingers closer to the blade than a guard will allow. And get my left hand behind the blade, to hold the end of a small, narrow piece against the fence as it emerges from behind the blade. Of course I wrap my right hand around the fence, for stability, when working this close to the blade. And the left hand is always guided by the table's miter slots or supported by the table, itself, so it cannot be drawn into the blade.

There are many good, used saws available that don't have saw-stop, yet are perfectly well suited to the average fledgling woodworker, even though they might come with no guards. Learn to always keep your fingers out of the blade, and you won't need to do without while you save up for the only saw in the world that you think is fit for you. You just have to always have your eyes on that blade, glancing away only to insure that the work is tight against the fence.

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

This is one of the most dangerous power tools one can purchase. I just witnessed someone cutting all 5 of their fingers on one. (One was completely amputated.) It was a very bad day for everyone, particularly the gentleman operating the saw.

Saw Stop is the only way to go: http://www.sawstop.com/

One of these has been on my wish list for some time. The deal I have with myself is that I rent table saws until I can pay to afford one of these.

IMO - Buying a table saw is a lot like adopting a Tiger cub. They are cute and may work out fine for a while - but it's only a matter if time before the statistics add up and it eats you.

I CAN'T agree with you on this. Have you seen what they do to the saw and blade after the "incident"? Next thing you know the government will outlaw all saws of any kind.

Learn the safety of workshop tools and don't take shortcuts. That's safer than your Sawstop.

 

[BikerDad]

Anyone know anything about an old Delta 1160 10" Tilt-Top Table Saw ?

Tilt-tops are a "less than optimum" format, which is likely why nobody makes 'em anymore. Nothing quite like having a workpiece that wants to slide away from you while cutting.

 

[ez-duzit]

Tilt-tops are a "less than optimum" format...

Yes and no.

Actually tilting-table table saws can be some of the most precise cabinet saws, since it is only the table that moves, and not the more critical blade axle and support mechanism.

I have an ancient 8" Sears branded tilting table saw that I've had for decades, and have setup with a 4-1/2" thin-kerf, 40-tooth, carbide blade for portable jobs and for model building. It is cast iron and impractically heavy. But its precision is astonishing.

 

[BikerDad]

Yes and no.

Actually tilting-table table saws can be some of the most precise cabinet saws, since it is only the table that moves, and not the more critical blade axle and support mechanism.

I have an ancient 8" Sears branded tilting table saw that I've had for decades, and have setup with a 4-1/2" thin-kerf, 40-tooth, carbide blade for portable jobs and for model building. It is cast iron and impractically heavy. But its precision is astonishing.

For modeling, I can see the utility. The workpieces involved are smaller. For cutting a 30 degree rip bevel on the long edge of a 4'x8' sheet of 3/4" (actually 23/32") plywood? Yes, it CAN be done, but I wouldn't want to be the one trying to control that plywood.

I'm not saying that you, or anybody, should junk their tilt-top saws. Simply observing that there is a reason nobody, to my knowledge, sells new ones here anymore. Perhaps there's a UL or gubmint reason as well. For doing 90 degree cuts, I'd take an old tilt-table saw over a recent (pre-riving knife) benchtop screamer any day, but other than flooring guys, I don't know of any realm of woodwork that is overwhelmingly 90d cuts. Fortunately, since I have my Delta Contractors Saw, the question is moot for me.

 

[miner]

Tilt-tops are a "less than optimum" format, which is likely why nobody makes 'em anymore. Nothing quite like having a workpiece that wants to slide away from you while cutting.

Every design has advantages and disadvantages. I agree that tilt tops are obsolete, but a lot of great work can still be done on one (so long as we are talking about cutting up solid lumber).

Edit: This American No. 20 has TWO riving knives! LOL

 

[ez-duzit]

Bet it doesn't take one long to make a pile of sawdust.

 

[hippie2cams]

I have an old Craftsman with cast iron wings and belt drive motor, and it works. rip cuts, cross cuts, dado's whatever you want it does it. a little dirty because it doesn't have sawdust removal system but I gotta broom and dustpan, it's not that hard. Oh yea got all my fingers and toes too. And I'm 72

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

There was some previous talk about the tilting table sa. I owned a Shopsmith thinking that it was the cat's meow until I put a 3/4" plywood on the table to cut into smaller work pieces----MISTAKE. After almost tipping the saw over as I was cutting I figured it was time to change saws. I immediately sold the Shopsmith and bought the Delta Unisaw. From one extreme to the other as far as safety and precision goes. I'm 67 years old and value safety in the workplace. You can't put a price on fingers, hands and toes.

 

[BFBOB]

For value in a used saw, I don't think you can beat the Rockwell / Delta 10" Contractor saw. Lots of used ones around, some being sold cheap like mine because "the dang thing just don't cut straight".
Here's a secret for you: blade/fence alignment is critical and adjustable. When you get a used saw, tear it down, clean, lubricate and align. Make sure the blade is really square to the table at the 90 degree stop. Also change the pulleys if like mine it came with die-cast zinc pulleys. Precision machined steel or iron pulleys make a world of difference. I also ditched the v-belt and went with a flat multi-v. The difference in vibration was dramatic, and yes, it affects accuracy of cut.
It goes without saying that a high quality blade suited to the task is a must - but I said it anyway.

 

[Eric Commarato]

Go to HGR Industrial Surplus on the net. They are a surplus equipment dealer in Euclid, Ohio. If you go to their Fabrication equipment tab and filter by price between $100-$500, you will usually find a couple Delta Unisaws. Sometimes in pretty rough shape, sometimes not. Currently they have a couple in the $350.00 range. They also have very good shipping rates if you pick the machine up at the trucking terminal. Make sure the machine you are considering is a single phase machine if you don't have three phase; and study the pictures very carefully. Ask you salesman to verify there are not broken castings on the machine and see if the machine runs. If you don't want to deal with restoration of an older machine, don't go this route. The last couple of machines I bought from them were barely used. A Canadian made General 130 14" Planer, they had listed for $899. I offered them $750 and they took it. The machine still had the plastic protective film on all of the badges. My final price shipped to Mississippi was $950. This planer when it was made sold for over $5,000. I also purchased a Lisle Drill Grinder, a model 91000 for $200 that was brand new. Good deals can be found out there, just be careful.

 

[wssix99]

Since you witnessed it can you answer any of the following questions?

How old was the operator?
Any known impairments?
Experience level?
Previous experience with the specific saw in question?
What was being attempted?
Blade guard and riving knife in place?
Were push sticks being used?
Featherboard?
Height of blade above workpiece?

Young adult operator, cross cutting an angle on a wide hardwood floor board. New blade. (This turned out to be a good thing for the finger re-attachment.) He was cutting too fast, the blade dug in, kicked the board around and pulled his hand over to the blade. A radial arm saw would have been a better choice for this situation/cut, but the table saw's portability and ability to do the rip cuts placed it on the job that day.

A table saw is not any more dangerous then lots of other tools.

Sure it is. Many hand tools are used in a manner that the business end is pointed away from the operator and there is a motor and bulk between the moving device and the operator. When you take a circular saw, turn it upside down, mount it to a table, and push material in to the device, the hazards are much greater. The same thing goes when you mount a router or other tools upside down to a table.

The OP is talking about a $500 budget, show me a Sawstop saw that he can get for $500.

That's the kicker. The prices are high but so are the risks. Every one of us has used a tool at one time in a less-than-fully-safe manner. (No matter how much we know about using a tool safely.) The odds play out in these situations and this is where the severity of potential injuries comes in to play. Using a power drill, I could cut my self, puncture a testicle, etc. But the cost of those injuries and the impact on my future well being is much less than what could happen if I put my hand to a circular saw blade. So, I will definitely look at investing more money in a safer table saw vs. a safer power drill.

I CAN'T agree with you on this. Have you seen what they do to the saw and blade after the "incident"? Next thing you know the government will outlaw all saws of any kind.

Ummm. If the saw stop mechanism activates, the operator has bigger issues than a destroyed blade. BTW - The saw is fine and is supposed to only damage the blade and brake. The manufacturer claims that these components are less expensive than hand surgery and long term disability.



The OP indicates that the saw won't be used much. For a reasonable fee, you can rent a pretty good portable saw from a tool rental place/Home Depot and take a good while to get up to a $500 level. I just rented one from Home Depot to rip some lumber and it was great. (I just won't make a permanent personal investment in one until I can afford the SawStop.)

 

[mtmgtz]

Young adult operator, cross cutting an angle on a wide hardwood floor board. New blade. (This turned out to be a good thing for the finger re-attachment.) He was cutting too fast, the blade dug in, kicked the board around and pulled his hand over to the blade. A radial arm saw would have been a better choice for this situation/cut, but the table saw's portability and ability to do the rip cuts placed it on the job that day.

Not sure if use have used a radial arm saw much but they are pretty dangerous. If you're not paying attention and don't have a good grip on the handle, the blade will climb wood towards you real fast. If you're hand is in the path, see you later. A sliding miter saw could do something kind of similar but it's extension of travel is much less and generally aren't as free-wheeling as a radial arm saw.

 

[mtmgtz]

Just found some statistics on workshop tool injuries. This is kind of old but I don't think much has changed. Report is from 2003 based upon ER visits in 2000-2002.

http://www.cpsc.gov//PageFiles/118290/hazard_tools.pdf

Table saw did have a lot of ER trips but not a single person was killed using a table saw. 6 people died from using power drills. Not sure how that happens.

One thing to think about is that if you cut off a finger using a table saw, you got a decent chance of re-attaching it. You get your hand caught in a jointer, planer or shaper, you'll just have some hamburger to pick up.

 

[SMKS]

Have you seen what they do to the saw and blade after the "incident"?

To stop the blade nearly instantaneously the brake mechanism and the blade are destroyed.

If you doa little googling you'll see the brake is meant to be replaceable after it is used. So, it doesn't do anything to the overall saw itself.

A replacement brake mechanism is $70. Then there's the cost of a new blade. That's far, far cheaper than even a small table saw mishap will cost you in medical bills.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001G9MGZQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[trainer]

Back to the OP's question.
No matter what you get, take some time to set it up properly and make certain the fence is paralell and the blade is at 90 degrees when it hits the tilt-stop.
Belt drive is preferred, but a direct drive is ok for occasional use.
If your going to use a dado or other accessories, make sure that the arbor is long enough to accommodate them.

I got an exchange-a blade from the local hardware store and I exchange it for $14 whenever its even a little bit dull. I can also exchange it for a different type if i'm doing a job that needs it, like a thin kerf for ripping canoe strips or a fine blade if i'm working with hardwood-veneered plywood.

 

[Freejack]

There have been a lot of different suggestions here but let me add my experience (as a former product manager at a power tool mfg) on table saws:

- Buy as heavy a saw as your budget and space allow. Cabinet saws are nice, but a good cast-iron contractor saw will do a great job for most hobby woodworkers. That said, don't let anyone tell you that you cannot do fine woodworking on a good quality portable saw, becuase you can, but there are a number of situations, such a ripping big sheets of ply in which a smaller saw is less useful. I use a portable RIDGID saw to do all sorts of work due to space constraints.

- I cannot stess this next point enough: The single most important feature of any table saw is the rip fence...if doesn't work, the saw won't work. This is the key feature that seperates the cheap saws from the good saws. A good rip fence should be consistant, solid and repeatable. You should be able to change cutting widths without worrying about whether it is still in adjustment. It should lock down solidly and not shift when force is applied, but slide easily when unlocked, and it needs to come on and off the saw quickly. A couple good systems include the Biesmeyer system that comes on some of the higher end Delta saws and the system RIGID uses on most of their table saws.

- The design of the miter tool is less important as none of the saw OEMs include a good mitering fixture and there are some excellent aftermarket miter handles/boxes.

Jake

 

[Fishplate]

A replacement brake mechanism is $70. Then there's the cost of a new blade. That's far, far cheaper than even a small table saw mishap will cost you in medical bills.

It cost me (and my insurance company) about $35,000 to lay the back of my hand on the table saw blade.

I got my money's worth...

 

[BikerDad]

6 people died from using power drills. Not sure how that happens.

Using 1/2" or larger corded drills while on a ladder or roof, the drillbit catches and kicks back all the torque to the user, tossing him off the roof/ladder. Broken wrists are also a known risk/injury from these incidents. This exact problem is why Bosch has developed anti-kickback tech. Had Bosch deployed this tech to their top line Brushless tools, I'd have some new Bosch goodness in my shop.