Tamper Resistant Duplex stranded wire...?

[madosta]

Does anyone make 15/20 amp receptacles that are tamper resistant and have the little plate to compress the wire into the receptacle? Using stranded wire and wrapping it around the screw, even with the little twist and 1/8" holder left on is kinda annoying.

Maybe I should just grow up and deal with it? I just really like those little plate clamp things. (GFCI's all seem to have them.)

 

[rlitman]

Why don't you crimp fork terminals on the ends of the wire.
You really shouldn't be wrapping stranded wire under the screws.

 

[madosta]

Why don't you crimp fork terminals on the ends of the wire.
You really shouldn't be wrapping stranded wire under the screws.

I don't have any installed that way, I have all back plate terminals. I have seen it done before where stranded is stripped, then a little piece is stripped but not taken off, twisted, twist around screw, etc.

I don't want to do that is my point.

Are fork terminals common? Seems out of place to me.

 

[lakee911]

Sometimes you'll find that feature on some of the commercial grade receptacles and switches. Sometimes these are between $2 and $5 each and for me it's not worth it. I do agree, though, that it is nice when dealing with the GFCI units. I typically buy the cheapy 28 or 54 cent jobbies when it comes to standard switches and receps.

Although I prefer an insertion type with a clamping screw, sometimes I find that it's not possible and there I typically specify forked terminals for stranded wire in lieu of wrapping stranded wires around a screw.

Alternatively, I don't see why one couldn't tin the end of the wire and then wrap it around the screw...maybe even make your "wire hook," tin it and attach it. Just thinking out loud here.

 

[madosta]

So, I guess spade crimp terminals are acceptable means of terminated stranded THHN to a receptacle. Seems odd to me.

 

[rlitman]

I wouldn't tin wires for this. It is asking for trouble.
The solder will wick up between the wires way beyond just what is stripped, and any movement causes undue forces on the wires, that lead to the end snapping off (and that's forgetting about what the heat does to the insulation)
If you need stranded wires (which you would need for flexibility), then tinning is your enemy.

The back-wire outlets with clamp terminals are usually found in spec-grade stuff. I don't know if they make that in TR, as spec-grade is normally made for commercial purposes.
I see spec grade TR outlets in Hubbell's catalog. You can probably find them in a commercial electrical supply house, but expect to pay $6-8 per outlet.

 

[Falcon67]

I wouldn't tin wires for this. It is asking for trouble.
The solder will wick up between the wires way beyond just what is stripped, and any movement causes undue forces on the wires, that lead to the end snapping off (and that's forgetting about what the heat does to the insulation)
If you need stranded wires (which you would need for flexibility), then tinning is your enemy.

In a car - sure. Crimp not solder. In a house? (not in an earthquake zone) If the wires are moving in the walls, then somebody needs to get the critters out.

 

[rlitman]

In a car - sure. Crimp not solder. In a house? (not in an earthquake zone) If the wires are moving in the walls, then somebody needs to get the critters out.

I didn't see the word house anywhere. Could be a quad outlet at the end of an extension cord. Could be a lot of things I can think of.
Regardless, I cannot think of any use of solder on a 120VAC electrical distribution system that would pass muster.

 

[lakee911]

I wouldn't tin wires for this. It is asking for trouble.
The solder will wick up between the wires way beyond just what is stripped, and any movement causes undue forces on the wires, that lead to the end snapping off (and that's forgetting about what the heat does to the insulation)
If you need stranded wires (which you would need for flexibility), then tinning is your enemy.

Good point, but do you need the flexiility after it's installed and staying put?

 

[rlitman]

Good point, but do you need the flexiility after it's installed and staying put?

As Falcon67 correctly pointed out; in the walls: no.
But I don't know whether or not that applies here, and it isn't easy to tin wires without damaging the insulation either. Perhaps if you apply a bit of flux, and then quickly dip the ends in a lead pot . . .

Hopefully a real electrician chimes in.
Has anyone here ever seen an electrician apply solder?
I see code issues with doing this.

Anyway, the screw clamp backwire outlets are indeed the best answer to this.

 

[grounded-b]

So, I guess spade crimp terminals are acceptable means of terminated stranded THHN to a receptacle. Seems odd to me.

SOP in the trade when pressure-plate terminals are not on the deivice.

Steve (journeyman wireman)

 

[grounded-b]

As Falcon67 correctly pointed out; in the walls: no.
But I don't know whether or not that applies here, and it isn't easy to tin wires without damaging the insulation either. Perhaps if you apply a bit of flux, and then quickly dip the ends in a lead pot . . .

Hopefully a real electrician chimes in.
Has anyone here ever seen an electrician apply solder?
I see code issues with doing this.

Anyway, the screw clamp backwire outlets are indeed the best answer to this.

Soldered splices were the norm before "wirenuts" were introduced:

Twist all your splices. Adjust them so they "point" downward. Apply flux. Walk around the site with your solder pot on a pole, dipping splices.

Soldered splices violate the NEC only on ground connections.

Steve
(journeyman wireman)

 

[lakee911]

As Falcon67 correctly pointed out; in the walls: no.
But I don't know whether or not that applies here, and it isn't easy to tin wires without damaging the insulation either. Perhaps if you apply a bit of flux, and then quickly dip the ends in a lead pot . . .

Hopefully a real electrician chimes in.
Has anyone here ever seen an electrician apply solder?
I see code issues with doing this.

Anyway, the screw clamp backwire outlets are indeed the best answer to this.

I kind of meant it tongue in cheek to be honest. Flying splices of K&T used to be soldered ... but I've never seen a K&T install so no, I've never see an electrician applying solder but I've not seen everything in the world either.

Here's some discussion in a pro electrcal forum. http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=146253

 

[nehog]

If you know how to solder, you won't damage the insulation.

Wire fatigue is not an issue except in very high vibration conditions with unsupported wires. Wires are soldered in industrial equipment without problem. But you must do it properly.

If you crimp on terminals, use a proper crimper, not that POS from HF or Sears that sells for $5!

 

[madosta]

I am not soldering them. I have a couple of solder stations for electronics work, and I can't even think that soldering something in conduit would be cool.

I'll ask my electrician about the spade terminals. Thanks guys!

 

[Charles (in GA)]

You won't find the backwire receptacles with the screw and pressure plate in a tamper resistant design. The Leviton line has TP receptacles in its "Preferred" series, but not in the "Professional" series. Only the "Professional" series has the backwire with screw and clamp plate. I used a bunch of these in both my house and my shop. I do have about ten Cooper/Eagle of the same type, backwire w/clamp plate on one side of my shop, and I have two Hubbell of the same design. I recently bought two boxes of ten of the 20 amp version of the Hubbells' at the Flea Market, new in the box.

If this is a detached shop or garage I do not think you need the TR receptacles, and you can get much better quality by buying the Professional/commercial/industrial type receptacles.

As far as adding the spade or lug connectors to wire, the connectors would have to have listed for them, the amp rating they are designed for, and the temperature at which that amp rating is given. ie, no "Radio Shack" connectors. Code appears to allow such connectors for 10 gauge and smaller wire. The more joints, connections and crimps you introduce into a system, the more problems you will have. I would not consider using them.

Charles

406.12 Tamper-Resistant Receptacles for Dwelling Units.
In all areas specified in 210.52, all nonlocking-type
125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles shall be listed
tamper-resistant receptacles.

Exception: Receptacles in the following locations shall
not be required to be tamper-resistant:
(1) Receptacles located more than 1.7 m (51⁄2 ft) above the
floor.
(2) Receptacles that are part of a luminaire or appliance.
(3) A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances
located within dedicated space for each appliance
that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one
place to another and that is cord-and-plug connected
in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7), or (A)(8).
(4) Nongrounding receptacles used for replacements as
permitted in 406.4(D)(2)(a).

406.13 Tamper-Resistant Receptacles in Guest Rooms
and Guest Suites. All nonlocking-type, 125-volt, 15- and
20-ampere receptacles located in guest rooms and guest
suites shall be listed tamper-resistant receptacles.

406.14 Tamper-Resistant Receptacles in Child Care Facilities.
In all child care facilities, all nonlocking-type,
125-volt, 15- and 20- ampere receptacles shall be listed
tamper-resistant receptacles.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Sorry if this was already said but why not just do pigtails and use a short piece of solid wire to connect to the recep.? I've done this on a # of installs in commercial buildings.

I have seen spade terminals used but it's not code compliant unless they're U/L listed as Charles stated. The ones I've seen used were cheepo ones(the homeowner did it!) and were not U/L listed!

 

[rlitman]

The spade terminals you get at HD with the yellow ends are indeed listed. Just use the Klein crimper, or equivalent (Channellock, etc.). Not the silly crimpers with the stripper built in.

As for the argument of reducing the number of connections:
a properly crimped connection will actually cold flow the copper within to the point that within the crimp, it is sealed from any oxygen intrusion (this is why you need something that can exert serious force on the crimp). Done this way, you are actually less likely to see issues in the future than if you use the back clamps.

And I do not know if Leviton offers these (Charles says no), but Hubbell sure does in their catalog. They're just going to be very spendy.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The leviton site shows TR receptacles in standard, decora, gfci, hospital grade, but not professional. I think hospital grade is available in backwire.

Edit. Fruitridge tools has leviton hg in back and side wired

http://www.fruitridgetools.com/stor...SFItemDetail.aspx?sfid=136763&c=0&i=191258056

5262 SGI. The I is for ivory $6.95 ea and fr tool is cheap

 

[nkachur]

I bought some TR back wire 20 amp recepticles here in Canada a couple weeks ago. They were pricey. I think they are cooper devices. I will take some pictures annd get a model # later today.

 

[Speedy Petey]

SOP in the trade when pressure-plate terminals are not on the deivice.

Steve (journeyman wireman)

Not in my world. Are you union, because that may be it. I almost never see this.

 

[Speedy Petey]

You won't find the backwire receptacles with the screw and pressure plate in a tamper resistant design.

Sure you will. My supply house carries them in large quantities.
You need to find a real supply house.

 

[truckn_r]

Not in my world. Are you union, because that may be it. I almost never see this.

Crimp on terminals is the way its done everywhere that I've worked, comercial or industrial,
just out of curiosity how is it done in your world?

 

[Speedy Petey]

Back wired receptacles or twist the stranded wire on the side screw.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

OK, Cooper makes a Tamper resistant backwire which is a commercial version, TRBR15 add a dash and a letter for the color code color code: B (Brown), GY (Gray), LA (Light Almond), V (Ivory), W (White).

They also make a Commercial Spec Grade, TR5262, same with the color code. Also have 20 amp versions of both of the above, TRBR20 and TR5362.

Haven't found anyone yet with residential grade TR (by itself quite common) that is backwire.

Expect to pay $4.50 to $7.00 for these individually and somewhat cheaper in quantities. Decent residential grade (which I don't waste my time with) are in the $3.00 range. Anything under $2.00 is a waste of time for sure. (individual prices).

Charles

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Hubbell has several Commercial, Industrial and Hospital grade receptacles that are TR and backwire. Many of the Hubbell receptacles are described as "fork terminal capable"

I'll let you do the looking in the catalog, it will take a while.

http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/wiring/catalogpages/H5254.pdf

I see that Hubbell has a Weather Resistant line of receptacles that they say is required by NEC 406.9(A) and (B).

Charles

 

[Speedy Petey]

OK, Cooper makes a Tamper resistant backwire which is a commercial version, TRBR15 add a dash and a letter for the color code color code: B (Brown), GY (Gray), LA (Light Almond), V (Ivory), W (White).

........

Expect to pay $4.50 to $7.00 for these individually and somewhat cheaper in quantities. .

WOW! If you are paying $5-$7 for a TRBR I feel sorry for you.
Last I paid $3.85 for a TRBR120. And that's a 20A duplex.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

WOW! If you are paying $5-$7 for a TRBR I feel sorry for you.
Last I paid $3.85 for a TRBR120. And that's a 20A duplex.

I didn't say $5 to $7, I said $4.50 to $7 and cheaper in quantities, rather close to what you stated (though 20 amps run more for no apparent reason, given the innards are EXACTLY the same, only the face plate is different. Hubbell even shows this in one of their catalogs)

I'm talking retail at Grainger, Home Depot, etc. Around here, the supply houses are higher, some so high I laugh and walk out. I've found one or two reasonable, but no cheaper than the retail establishments. I know everyone says the supply houses are cheaper, and in a very few instances may be, but largely they are not.

Charles

 

[rabidsquirrel]

Back wired receptacles or twist the stranded wire on the side screw.

I just give it a left hand twist to keep the ends from splaying.

 

[ishiboo]

Tamper resistant backwire receptacles are out there, just Google for them. Cooper and Leviton make them for sure. They will be "spec grade" of course and you'll pay for them, as some have said I think $6-7 will be reasonable.

Speedy Peety also volunteered to buy you some from his supply house and ship them to you at cost, wasn't that generous?

 

[Speedy Petey]

Speedy Peety also volunteered to buy you some from his supply house and ship them to you at cost, wasn't that generous?

I forgot to post this. My supply house just sent me an e-mail notification that my pricing schedule will be increasing by 300%.
If anyone wants some receptacles let me know.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I forgot to post this. My supply house just sent me an e-mail notification that my pricing schedule will be increasing by 300%.
If anyone wants some receptacles let me know.

300%? Wow! O_O Why such a high increase?

 

[Speedy Petey]

I asked for it.
See my winky smiley and also post #30.

 

[truckn_r]

Back wired receptacles or twist the stranded wire on the side screw.

That is a clear code violation, I've seen stuff melt because of bad connections like that, usually that is the weakest link in the circuit. I would never do that especially in my house.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Back wired receptacles or twist the stranded wire on the side screw.

That is a clear code violation, I've seen stuff melt because of bad connections like that, usually that is the weakest link in the circuit. I would never do that especially in my house.

You are not very clear here. What is a "clear code violation"? the back wired receptacles?, or the stranded wire on the side screw? and can you cite a reference so the rest of us can learn from this?

The OP is NOT referring to the cheapie push in back wire receptacles. He IS referring to the back wire commercial and spec grade type that use the side screw to tighten up a clamp plate (notched or serrated) to retain the wire in the receptacle.

This is an older Leviton pictured below, the newer ones are different (cheaper to manufacture)

Charles

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I agree Charles!

 

[sberry]

I am with the left hand twist wire it on crowd.

 

[madosta]

I am with the left hand twist wire it on crowd.

Lol, what does this mean?

Ok, this is the best pic I could find from a quick search: (As Charles mentions above)

 

[ddawg16]

Sorry if this was already said but why not just do pigtails and use a short piece of solid wire to connect to the recep.? I've done this on a # of installs in commercial buildings.

I have seen spade terminals used but it's not code compliant unless they're U/L listed as Charles stated. The ones I've seen used were cheepo ones(the homeowner did it!) and were not U/L listed!

Lacking an outlet with the backing plate on the screw....that is exactly how I would do it.....in fact, I have several like that.

I find it easier to use TWHN through conduit for longer runs.....once I get to the first box....pig tail using Romex.

 

[madosta]

Lacking an outlet with the backing plate on the screw....that is exactly how I would do it.....in fact, I have several like that.

I find it easier to use TWHN through conduit for longer runs.....once I get to the first box....pig tail using Romex.

You mean to use solid THHN/THWN for the pigtail.

Charles has provided the exact receptacles I needed, but I think I'm just going to weld the wire right to the receptacle and cover it in duct tape.



hahaha jk!

Thanks Charles!