Taping electrical outlets?

[Bull]

Too tight is as bad as too loose, and torque tools are required & they need periodic calibration too. Just don't ask if I practice what I preach.

G-darn it! So what I did in the last week was incorrect in that regard.

I understand the danger of too loose, but what is the danger of too tight? The solid wire might break off from stress?

Should a Johnny Homeowner type be breaking out a torque screwdriver for his work? If not, how snug should those damn screws be, using the tactile feedback from your hand/wrist working the screwdriver?

 

[MrMark]

Bull, you shouldn't have two wires under a screw. That is a bad practice. Use pigtails. Ask if you don't know pigtails. As far as tightness is concerned, yes, you can go too far, but I generally agree with the advice you were given. You just have to know when you are on the verge of stripping something. Most likely your screwdriver is going to cam out on the cheap cut screws before you can overtighten. If you looked at that video I posted, you will see that the guy used a flat blade. I don't do that unless the screw gets messed up.

A little tip: the screws accept #1 Robertson, #2 phillips, and slotted. None of them very well. I tried the Robertson but couldn't achieve good torque without the screw giving out and rounding. You have to remember the copper will compress a little so I like to tighten up then come back and hit it again because you will find you can go a little more.

Another tip on wrapping: preform the loop with your needlenose into a rough U. Then put the U on and then use your needlenose between the screw and the free end to capture the free end against the screw. At this point you can use your other hand and give the wire a bend around the screw to achieve near perfect wrap around the screw.

 

[BioHazard]

I just tested it on a leviton backwire plug with a metal yoke. Solid wire. After being torqued down, when the wire is turned slightly it releases and pulls straight out. Don't believe me. Try it yourself before you make statements you can't back up.

I use Leviton industrial outlets and switches from Home Depot all the time. I always use the screw down back wire. I always give them a tug when I'm done, none have ever come out. I trust Leviton to make good products, I trust UL to accurately test them, and I trust Home Depot to sell a product that's not going to burn my house down.

Now, how many lose side screw wires have I found? I haven't been keeping count, but too many to remember.

Leviton is a REALLY big company. If you think you know better than them about how to design an outlet, you have a lot to learn. Their newest generation of industrial outlets are some of the finest I've ever seen.

As for two wires under the screw, that's perfectly OK if there are holes for two wires, that's why they put them there. If the device was NOT designed with two wires in mind, then no, you shouldn't have two.

And no, I don't use a torque screw driver, and I wouldn't, even if somebody gave me one for free....

 

[MrMark]

Turn the wire and give it a tug to simulate the pushing and pulling that goes on when you have to fit the device in a crowded box.

It's you who has a lot to learn, I'm afraid. These are not industrial outlets and they are made for a price. A child could design a better clamping mechanism, it would just cost more money. That's almost too funny about Leviton being a big company and because of that they must know all and make everything just great. LOL at YOU.

He has two wires under a screw, in case you didn't see that. And it's bad practice to put two wires in backwire holes too, whether they are designed for it or not. Just ask the resident electricians.

 

[Bull]

****. Had I thought about it more or remembered what I have seen people do, I might have remembered that. I am also reading one of these Johnny Homeowner books about wiring (it seems a good one, though) but have a ways to go in it.

The two wires in this case are on one of those inexpensive porcelain single-bulb fixtures...I put two more up in my barn as temporary lighting until I get around to finishing that space up there. Should I absolutely remove it and use a pigtail?

 

[Norcal]

My name for Leviton is Leaveitalone, a brand suited for trailers, apts. & tract homes all bottom of the line quaility.

I do have to admit that Leviton's hospital grade receptacles are OK, quite well built & about 1/2 the cost of Hubbell, still dispise Leviton though.

 

[BioHazard]

These are not industrial outlets and they are made for a price.

They most certainly are industrial outlets. Very much the same as the HOSPITAL GRADE Leviton outlets that I use too. These are designed for LIFE SUPPORT systems. You oughta see the "industrial" outlets the electrician installed in my industrial building before I got here, what a joke.

As for the "price", it's quite high, I'll spend $15 on a good Leviton outlet when I could get a standard cheap-o outlet out of the bulk bin for less than $1.

BTW - are you an electrician? If not how did you become such an expert?

 

[Aceman]

If you think you know better than them about how to design an outlet, you have a lot to learn. Their newest generation of industrial outlets are some of the finest I've ever seen.

Maybe you haven't noticed MrMarks many posts, but he thinks very highly of himself and his electrical techniques. The underlying theme I've gathered from his posts is: If you don't do it the way he does, he basically considers you a hack.

 

[Bull]

You electrical guys are too harsh on each other!

 

[BioHazard]

My name for Leviton is Leaveitalone, a brand suited for trailers, apts. & tract homes all bottom of the line quaility.

And I call Fords furds like turds because I think they're **** and best parked in front of a trailer home, but there's a million people who will fight to the death to say otherwise.

 

[MrMark]

Maybe you haven't noticed MrMarks many posts, but he thinks very highly of himself and his electrical techniques. The underlying theme I've gathered from his posts is: If you don't do it the way he does, he basically considers you a hack.

Pot meet kettle.

 

[MrMark]

They most certainly are industrial outlets. Very much the same as the HOSPITAL GRADE Leviton outlets that I use too. These are designed for LIFE SUPPORT systems. You oughta see the "industrial" outlets the electrician installed in my industrial building before I got here, what a joke.

As for the "price", it's quite high, I'll spend $15 on a good Leviton outlet when I could get a standard cheap-o outlet out of the bulk bin for less than $1.

BTW - are you an electrician? If not how did you become such an expert?

Not an electrician. Think more.

 

[BioHazard]

The two wires in this case are on one of those inexpensive porcelain single-bulb fixtures...I put two more up in my barn as temporary lighting until I get around to finishing that space up there. Should I absolutely remove it and use a pigtail?

I wouldn't worry about it if it's just temporary and you made sure they were attached ok...unless maybe someone is running around pulling on your wires?

 

[BioHazard]

Not an electrician. Think more.

Not interested in playing games, if you've got credentials post up, or shut up.

 

[MrMark]

I have never once in my life felt the need to justify myself by posting credentials. And I'm not about to start to satisfy you. I don't care about credentials or years of experience. I care about what you do and say. Here it is about what you say.

 

[mrb]

I use the industrial grade receptacles from leviton (5362 series) as do some colleagues. Talking some pretty significant quantities here. No problems, however they are being used with stranded wire.

 

[BioHazard]

The problem is, MrMark, you're arguing with people who are clearly electricians, without any good evidence other than you tried it once yourself. If you were an electrician and dealt with outlets and switches all day every day, then your advice would mean something. Otherwise it's just one random opinion that none of the actual experts really agree with.

 

[MrMark]

OK, I'm an electrician. Now does my advice mean more?

 

[BioHazard]

OK, I'm an electrician. Now does my advice mean more?

No. There are good electricians and bad electricians.

 

[scooby074]

I work industrial. At one job the EE in charge expected all marrettes and devices be taped and it stuck with (or was beaten into ) me

I see no problem doing this and do it in residential especially if theres a chance that someone will be removing the device (like painting).

About the only time i ever use a torque wrench is on large motors during PMs. Never seen one in residential or regular day to day to day use in industrial.

Ive worked under several extremely **** EE\s and Mechanical engineers and believe me if they had even the remotest idea that torquing was beneficial for most things (from a cost/time perspective) they would have made us do it.

 

[Dirk Hollis]

Use Pass and Seymour's Plug Tails and there won't be any exposed conductor.

 

[kaffine]

I hate electrical tape and can't think of any place I would want to use it. Let alone on an outlet I might have to remove at some point. Having to remove the tape to get to the screws and then having the sticky residue.

Just in case anyone wants to know I am not an electricain. I'm an electronics tech.

 

[Bull]

Use Pass and Seymour's Plug Tails and there won't be any exposed conductor.

New rule: when mentioning a product, you must post a link!

 

[Norcal]

Use Pass and Seymour's Plug Tails and there won't be any exposed conductor.

You'll choke on the price..

 

[Torque1st]

Here i$ one link:
http://www.ebuild.com/pass-seymour/...il-wiring-devices-catalog/2009/3250_0_2_0.hwx

Another:
http://www.aplussupply.com/ps/plugtail.htm

 

[Teken]

Here i$ one link:
http://www.ebuild.com/pass-seymour/...il-wiring-devices-catalog/2009/3250_0_2_0.hwx

Another:
http://www.aplussupply.com/ps/plugtail.htm

As always I thank you! I am going to be using these things in all future installs. I would not have guessed that such a simple question would have provided so much valuable information. To one and all I appreciate all your contributions. This is why this forum is so successful . . .

 

[oleguy]

let me see!!I have 50 recp's in my house so it will cost me 400$just for outlets!!! not to economical is it!!!

 

[Justanoldguy]

I have been building here in NZ for 40+ years and never heard or seen taping of boxes.
And we have all 240 volt systems. Strange habits you guys have.

 

[walrus]

I have been building here in NZ for 40+ years and never heard or seen taping of boxes.
And we have all 240 volt systems. Strange habits you guys have.

Its not the boxes,its the devices and most people don't tape them

 

[kbs2244]

You just put a wrap or two around the outlet or switch to cover up the exposed screws.
It taks less than a min. to do.
The end result is no exposed hot spots in the box.

 

[The Motts]

I like that Cooper outlet with the plastic terminal caps...other than the color, that is.

They make other colors. That was just the first one I found when I Googled it.

 

[mrb]

You just put a wrap or two around the outlet or switch to cover up the exposed screws.
It taks less than a min. to do.
The end result is no exposed hot spots in the box.

if anything taping gives a false sense of security. An energized device should not be handled, so exposed screws shouldnt be an issue.

 

[Teken]

if anything taping gives a false sense of security. An energized device should not be handled, so exposed screws shouldnt be an issue.

Working on live circuits are not a common practice in your area?

 

[mrb]

Working on live circuits are not a common practice in your area?

um no. There are very few circumstances where its ok to work live...

 

[mcdtommy23]

if anything taping gives a false sense of security. An energized device should not be handled, so exposed screws shouldnt be an issue.

You've never worked in commercial buildings have you? Clearly you are either a light bulb changer or haven't been in the field very long. What would you tell a coustomer if you couldn't find the breaker to a certian circuit, or if the panel was somehow hidden? Very few circumstances???? Ya right!

Back to the thread: Taping not only helps prevent shorts should the outlet hit the side of a metal box, it also helps hold the outlet together should someone run something into the outlet with something plugged in, breaking the outlet apart.

I see broken outlets on a daily basis and thankfully they are (mostly taped) thats the only thing preventing a nice little fire.

 

[mrb]

You've never worked in commercial buildings have you? Clearly you are either a light bulb changer or haven't been in the field very long. What would you tell a coustomer if you couldn't find the breaker to a certian circuit, or if the panel was somehow hidden?

First, you have no idea of my qualifications, I am far from a 'light bulb changer' as you so eloquently put it. ( I mean no disrespect to guys who change lamps for a living).

Second, you need to get yourself a copy of 70E.

Last, what are you going to tell your customer (or employer) when you are working something live and (forgetting about personal injury and property damage for a second) cause a fault and trip the circuit you so desperately had to leave on?
Or as an extreme example (which has happened) the GFP on the service is set low (100 amps?) from when it was first installed and you trip the GFP on the service taking the entire facility out? Take that a step further and the 2000A main you tripped hasnt been maintained and you break a spring or something when you try to reset it. Now you have a $10,000 repair bill because someone couldnt be bothered to turn a circuit off.

A scheduled shutdown is always better than an unplanned outage.

 

[BioHazard]

I just tested it on a leviton backwire plug with a metal yoke. Solid wire. After being torqued down, when the wire is turned slightly it releases and pulls straight out. Don't believe me. Try it yourself before you make statements you can't back up.

Tried your little experiment tonight and you failed miserably. Brand new Leviton industrial 20A grey nylon outlet with back wire connections. I stripped a peice of 12ga solid Romex to the exact length on the wire guide printed on the side of the outlet. I then put it into the clamping device and turned it as tight as I could with a flathead screwdriver.

Doesn't matter how much twisting or pulling I did, that wire was NOT coming out. In fact I pulled so hard that the black wire started to come out of the Romex sheathing. The connection on the outlet did not fail. If I would have done the same with a wire nut, it would have lasted half a second.

Let's also not forget you are required to clamp down the wires behind your outlet so that nobody can pull them...this is meant to be an electrical connection, not a mechanical connection. (and by the way, it's "back wire", not backwire, Mr.Expert)

 

[BioHazard]

What would you tell a coustomer if you couldn't find the breaker to a certian circuit, or if the panel was somehow hidden?

Ask them where the ******** panel is. If you can't find the electrical panel then either you're a bad electrician, or you found a really, really stupid customer - and in that case, tell them you'll come back when they find the breaker.

If the panel was hidden I'd tell them that's probably a code violation, and ask how they expect me to fix something they've hidden. Again tell them you'll come back when they pull their head out of their ***.

 

[walrus]

um no. There are very few circumstances where its ok to work live...

That may be the case but working on live circuits happens all the time.

 

[Aceman]

Ask them where the ******** panel is. If you can't find the electrical panel then either you're a bad electrician, or you found a really, really stupid customer - and in that case, tell them you'll come back when they find the breaker.

If the panel was hidden I'd tell them that's probably a code violation, and ask how they expect me to fix something they've hidden. Again tell them you'll come back when they pull their head out of their ***.

I agree and just wanted to add that when the breakers aren't labeled either, I'm not scared to pull out my Amprobe AT-2005 to find it. I've used this thing in a hospital, I know it'll get the right breaker.