Tax Bill

[nate379]

I got my tax bill the other day and they screwed up on it. According to the bill it's just a piece of land valued at $23000. So instead of ~$2500 in taxes it's $215.

Called the tax people twice and left messages and they still haven't called me... so what's a guy to do?

 

[Uncle Buck]

Easy answer, keep on callin and get it straightened out now. Better that than have them figure it out next year and then want the current years taxes, and the adjusted amount you did not pay in the previous year all in one shot! That would really ****.

 

[boiler7904]

Don't know about Alaska but here's the situation I had in Indiana a couple of years ago.

Builder owns a piece of land for several years and uses it as a parking lot for neighboring model homes. Once the subdivision is basically sold out, he removes the parking lot in late winter / early spring of 2006 and starts construction of a duplex around March 10th (this date becomes important later). I sign a contract to buy one half of the building around March 15th. Construction progresses through the spring and summer with completion in mid July and closing on Aug 7, 2006.

Fast forward to January 2007 when I (actually my mortgage company) receive the 2006 tax bill (7 months late due to the wonderful efficiencies of this state). Total tax bill is $5.72. Yes you read that right. Less than $6 property tax on my home. I called the county and township assessors offices each twice to make sure everything was right.

Here's why. In Indiana, taxes are (were in 2006 anyway) levied based on the assessed value of the property as of March 1st. Since our lot was bare ground on March 1st, it gets taxed that way for the first year.

Now to make the deal even better. Property taxes here are paid proportionally based on how long you owned the property during the tax period. Since I only owned it for a third of the year, I was only responsible for a third of the taxes or $1.91. The builder had to write me a check for the remaining $3.81.

The reality check came this past winter when I got my first real tax bill for about $1900 or a 97,300% increase over the previous year.

My guess is that you have a similar situation.

 

[nate379]

I know the tax people came out and did some mearsurements. They wanted to look in the house and I told them no.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I know the tax people came out and did some mearsurements. They wanted to look in the house and I told them no.

Yup, always tell the buggers no to!

 

[jrb2]

I do property tax appraisals in Kansas. Just wanted to let you know that when you refuse to let the assessor measure your house, we are forced to estimate. Somehow we are not very good at estimating, but we never get it to small.

 

[nate379]

I told them no to coming in the house. I let them measure outside. Not worried about their appraisal. I just had one done 4 months ago so it will match that or I'll fight it.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I do property tax appraisals in Kansas. Just wanted to let you know that when you refuse to let the assessor measure your house, we are forced to estimate. Somehow we are not very good at estimating, but we never get it to small.

Your statement I bolded just confirmed everything I ever thought about the assessors office, that is why I fight you buggers every single year, and to my delight I usually walk away from the table with at least something so you tax crooks don't get every last dime you are looking for. I am sure the birds in Shawnee county operate just like you guys do. That is why they have been trying to break it off in my *** every year for the last 10 years, rotton bastards.

The tax guys in Shawnee county have to love me, I have contested my taxes, with some degree of success almost every year for as long as I have lived in Shawnee county.

At this point I have to contest them every year or they try to slap at least a 10% increase on me every year. So I fight them every year, last year I went all three times and we ended after the third round at the Docking building.

If they will ever apply the same 5% to my house that they do to every other home in my subdivision I will stop contesting them. Until then I just plan on contesting them every year. (dirty buggers)

I have noticed though that homes that used to be valued thousands less than mine a few years ago are now valued at thousands more than mine, and little seems to have changed in the appearance of the homes, so apparently whatever I am doing is holding my taxes down some while my neighbors just keep on going sky high.

No, I would not dream of letting the tax assessors in my home. As bad as they have tried screwing me through the years I can only imagine how bad it would be if they ever got inside the joint! Besides, I understand the strategy now, I simply have to prove there are deficiencies in my home that would prevent selling it for what they value it at. I always do that and show up with pictures and contractors estimates to boot. I don't just show up and whine about how the high taxes are unfair.

I am sure that when you fight the county tax assessor every single year, and are ready to carry your fight through all the steps the law entitles the home owner to use; it has to put a huge red mark next to your name in the county assessors office somewhere. I cannot believe they like having a number of homeowners fight them clear to the state level at Docking. If nothing else, it has to make the county look bad if many folks do this. I am going to use the roof this year. The great part is, it's shot, my insurance carrier issued me a letter saying they are going to cancel me if I do not replace it. I will replace it, but not till I have used it in my ongoing fight with the tax man! LOL

 

[38Chevy454]

Good for you UB, those tax assessor bastards will never let up. So you can never let up on them! F 'em, keep up the good fight!

 

[Bustawrench]

The reality check came this past winter when I got my first real tax bill for about $1900 .

.

Wow, I wish my taxes were that low.

That's about the going tax rate for a homeless guy living in a refrigerator box, under a bridge in Jersey. We lead the nation in greedy, crooked politicians here.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Wow, I wish my taxes were that low.

That's about the going tax rate for a homeless guy living in a refrigerator box, under a bridge in Jersey. We lead the nation in greedy, crooked politicians here.

Yes, unfortunately you do. I learned the same thing about your area in a class I have been attending only last week.

 

[GzrGlide]

Awesome Uncle Buck, just awesome!

 

[nate379]

Wow that's nuts. My place assessed at ~250k and the taxes are supposed to be around $2500 for the year.

Wow, I wish my taxes were that low.

That's about the going tax rate for a homeless guy living in a refrigerator box, under a bridge in Jersey. We lead the nation in greedy, crooked politicians here.

 

[66HertzClone]

Just makes me sick when I see my tax bill, this year it increased again this time topping 16K! We had a shed built a few years ago, I saw an increase of $28 per quarter because of the shed. When we had the deck replaced with a smaller version, the tax accessor came out to inspect it upon completion. I told him it was actually smaller than it was before, he didn't believe me. I showed him where the anchors to the foundation for the header used to be, he told me that my taxes might not go up since the deck was indeed smaller, nice guy.

 

[Dale]

In Oklahoma a 100% service connected disabled vet pays no property tax. The first year after this passed save me a lot of money. After I built my 960 Sq.Ft. shop the assessor's rep showed up and took pictures and measurements. At first he did not understand why he was greeted so nicely, then I told him of my status he understood.

 

[Uncle Buck]

In Oklahoma a 100% service connected disabled vet pays no property tax. The first year after this passed save me a lot of money. After I built my 960 Sq.Ft. shop the assessor's rep showed up and took pictures and measurements. At first he did not understand why he was greeted so nicely, then I told him of my status he understood.

Don't get too close to em, as they are dirty filthy buggers!

 

[nate379]

Same here. I'm not disabled, but the first 20k of the house isn't taxed.

In Oklahoma a 100% service connected disabled vet pays no property tax. The first year after this passed save me a lot of money. After I built my 960 Sq.Ft. shop the assessor's rep showed up and took pictures and measurements. At first he did not understand why he was greeted so nicely, then I told him of my status he understood.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I'm Chairman of the Board of Assessors in the county where I live. This is a board of either 3 or 5 members (we have 3) that are appointed by the County Governing body (county commission in most counties) and is a position mandated by the Georgia Constitution.

I do not normally do any field work, we have a full time appraisal staff to handle the actual work, our board oversees the operation of the appraisal staff thru a Chief Appraiser and we are required by law to personally approve or deny certain things such as Homesteads, Conservation Use Valuation Assessments (known to many as "ag assessments") and a few other special assessments.

As we are charged with overseeing a staff, I figure I should be as well trained as they are, so I have taken a number of week long courses (the same ones they take, and many more hours than I am required by law to take each year) on various subjects, ie. Valuation of Rural Land, Valuation of Urban Land, Personal Property Appraisal, Cost Method of Valuation, Special Assessments and Exemptions, Assessment Administration, Intro to Appraisal, and Intro for Assessors (for the last two, not the real course titles, but a better description of what the courses entail), and I am a State certified Appraiser I and Appraiser II, so I'm as qualified as the office staff to perform appraisals for taxation. Lets see, thats eight 40 hour courses in seven years, plus the two all day exams (and the studying for those exams). Georgia is reputed to have the best and most complete training in this field of any state, its mandated by law.

A couple of observations. I've noticed that the taxpayers who holler the loudest are generally the ones with the least to gain, and usually end up seeing increases when we find mistakes (both ours and theirs) that are in the counties favor. I've also noticed that those who do not complain, usually are the ones who should be, we sometimes discover gross errors in their favor, but they never complained. Odd actually.

I find a surprising amount of fraud on the part of taxpayers, usually on homestead applications. I work all of those myself, and its amazing how many people who live out of the county, but own a house, usually a rental, or sometimes a vacant house they inherited, that they apply for a homestead on, knowing they are not eligible for. The even stranger part is how many of those will try again the next year, or when we question "why do you have this out of county PO Box" they turn around and get an in county PO Box (then we discovered they lived in and had a homestead on a house in the other county), or the woman who kept calling wanting to know if the Homestead had been approved and when we asked why the caller Id showed a number, clearly out of county, but with her name on it, she had a dozen different excuses, until we went out and talked with the renters in the house, who told us where she really lived.

I've heard just about everything so far.

In Georgia, there are 159 Boards of Assessors, one for each county. There are no Township or city assessors, or anything like that. The one in each county provides the info to the cities, incorporated communities, and school districts, for them to levy taxes on, thus its rather uniform. I realize that some states have a rather hodge-podge system of assessment, and yes, there are some vindictive government employees everywhere, but I feel, that in Georgia, the playing field is much more level and fair to all concerned than anywhere else.

Charles

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Wow, I wish my taxes were that low.

That's about the going tax rate for a homeless guy living in a refrigerator box, under a bridge in Jersey. We lead the nation in greedy, crooked politicians here.

You hit the nail on the head. The tax appraiser/assessor does not tax anyone. They merely locate and identify and catalog all taxable property, and place a value on that property. The politicians are the ones who approve budgets and set the millage rates that determine your taxes.

Charles

 

[Uncle Buck]

I do property tax appraisals in Kansas. Just wanted to let you know that when you refuse to let the assessor measure your house, we are forced to estimate. Somehow we are not very good at estimating, but we never get it to small.

It sure sounds like he ^^^^ takes his job personal to me Charles

You hit the nail on the head. The tax appraiser/assessor does not tax anyone. They merely locate and identify and catalog all taxable property, and place a value on that property. The politicians are the ones who approve budgets and set the millage rates that determine your taxes.

Charles

Something tells me the northerners of KS must be a bit more hard nosed and take it a bit more personal than you folks down south Charles, I mean, he is the assessor and that was his first unprovoked post! So that might shed a bit of light on what I am working with up here. These folks make it personal, again, I refer to his post.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

We've taken a similar tact before. Someone refuses to unlock a gate to let us in, claims it only a trailer or small one room shack, but we cannot see it, don't know, and they didn't get a building permit so we can get ideas from that, you throw a big number on it, and wait till they appeal it. At that point we get the facts. As Joe Friday said, "just the facts, Mam, just the facts". No more, no less than it really is.

Rare that we have to do that however.

Charles

 

[Uncle Buck]

We've taken a similar tact before. Someone refuses to unlock a gate to let us in, claims it only a trailer or small one room shack, but we cannot see it, don't know, and they didn't get a building permit so we can get ideas from that, you throw a big number on it, and wait till they appeal it. At that point we get the facts. As Joe Friday said, "just the facts, Mam, just the facts". No more, no less than it really is.

Rare that we have to do that however.

Charles

No, we are not talking about the same thing here Charles. In KS. the assessors have the right to walk all over the property and measure anything they want, I have no issue with that. Where I stop them is when they say they want to troop through the house like they own the damned thing. I only have an issue with them coming inside.

My guys here tax me double what they do virtually everyone in my subdivision every year. I have no choice anymore, I get double digit percentage increases every single year with no improvements in an older established neighborhood! These A holes literally have an issue with me at this point, they must, to throw 10% or more increase only on me and 5% on block after block of all the other homes in my subdivision(I know because I check the public records of literally hundreds of homes in the neighborhoods surrounding mine). Once they started they never quit. If I could sue them I would. Till I leave this horrid county all I can do is fight the bastards.

There is one thing about it, after ten years of fighting them almost every year I now just plan on fighting them. I am used to it anymore. I wish they would just tax me at the same roughly 5-6% that they tax everyone else in my subdivision at just once, if they did I would not contest the percentage of increase, but 10% or more every year is just insane!

 

[MisterCMK]

After you appeal the appraisal, what does your yearly increase end up being?

 

[Uncle Buck]

After you appeal the appraisal, what does your yearly increase end up being?

It depends what happens. If you win something on your first appeal you will get a partial reduction, as an example, if they increased you 10-11% and you won you would likely walk out with about 6-7% taxes for the year instead of the 10-11%. In KS there are three levels you can appeal to. Anymore I appeal to whatever level it takes for them to give me some kind of reduction. The last time I appealed was the first time I had to appeal all three times to get some relief. Regardless the level you appeal to there is no guarantee you will get any tax relief, but I think most folks just go in and set down and whine about their taxes with no logic, plan of attack, or strategy when they go. After they have done their thing they just rollover and take their spanking like a good taxpayer once their appeal is denied. That is where I differ, I do research, have figures, estimates from contractors, and a plan.

I have gotten some relief every single time I go through the appeal process. I think partially it is because I do a lot of research and go well prepared. Winning never means getting zero % increase, winning to me means getting about a 50% reduction in the proposed taxes you must pay.

 

[boo coo tracks]

I was appointed by a judge to fire protectection distrist board. One small town & the rest was in the country. Farmers paid 92% of total taxes. Good Volanteer fire Dept. but they could only save your basement if your home in the country was burning. Not Fireman's fault but you have to have access to a lot of water.
If insurance co. requires you to fix your porch, then your taxes go up. This stifels a lot of people from making improvments to outside of your house.
Tracks

 

[Fiberglass Fred]

since we don't have a state income tax, our property taxes are crazy high.

In the bigger cities, you can expect a 10% increase every year.

Just about everyone I know fights it every year. The law firm will take 25%-50% of whatever they save you. Seeing as your savings compounds at 10% each year, it's a heck of a deal.

One of the larger firms actually handles well over 100,000 protests every year for their customers!

With that going on, you've got to fight just to keep up.

 

[38Chevy454]

You have to fight the greedy bastards. They view my wallet as an untapped resource for gov't spending. I view it as I am the best to decide where the money should go!

Charles, you may well be a very qualified and good intentioned public servant. The problem is that for most people the assessed value seems to be always at a higher value than the property could actually sell for. Maybe by only 5%, but you have to understand that to most people, being assessed at higher value than reality is wrong. Maybe in GA you are more accurate. That does not seem to be the case in many states.

To my opinion, states always push the limit to get as much as they can. Never have met a politician that could survive on zero tax income.

I just love the politicians that state "we did not increase taxes this year", but then your appraisal goes up by 10%. True that the tax rate did not go up, but by increasing the taxable value, it makes your total tax bill go up. I call that an increase, regardless of what some slime-mouthed politician calls it.

 

[rieferman]

We wanted to refinance based on appraised value from our township... bank of course sends out their "unbiased third party professional" and they estimated the value $60,000 less than the appraised value from our township. Funny how that works... Property is worth a lot when it comes time to pay taxes... Property is worth nothing when trying to get a better mortgage rate.

 

[Falcon67]

We wanted to refinance based on appraised value from our township... bank of course sends out their "unbiased third party professional" and they estimated the value $60,000 less than the appraised value from our township. Funny how that works... Property is worth a lot when it comes time to pay taxes... Property is worth nothing when trying to get a better mortgage rate.

Then you file an appeal. Or an emergency appeal - had to do that on some property in an estate my wife was handling. It was on the books at like 50K and the appraisal came in at 5K. Yes, that bad. they tried to drag their feet, we wouldn't let them. Check your local laws, there is likely a procedure should a valuation be far out of line percentage wise.

Just use the internet and probably the tax rolls to look for comparables, then demonstrate how yours is equal or less. That's what I do. Although, through the period of wild house inflation I kept my mouth shut. Did a protest about 5 years ago - when he started to show me comparables where people were paying stupid money for trashed houses in the neighborhood, I figured we better lay low for a while.

And don't think that with home prices heading way way down that the chief county appraiser is not held under a big gun by the county commissioners to hold tax revenue in line - why else would the paper be full of stories about people losing their *** in the housing market yet your tax bill comes in with the cheery thought that YOUR community is apparently unaffected by the rumored drop in housing values. Must be somewhere else.

 

[mcdtommy23]

I do property tax appraisals in Kansas. Just wanted to let you know that when you refuse to let the assessor measure your house, we are forced to estimate. Somehow we are not very good at estimating, but we never get it to small.

I got something you can't measure, so estimate away, write it down and send me the verification. I'm sure the ladies would love it! I must say, maybe you could be good for something after all.

 

[Rte66Charlie]

Hmmm, seems jrb2 doesn't have the balls to come back and defend his typical "punk-***-government-puke" post he made. Nice.



Revolution is coming to this country, and it will be because of taxes AGAIN!

 

[Charles (in GA)]

And don't think that with home prices heading way way down that the chief county appraiser is not held under a big gun by the county commissioners to hold tax revenue in line - why else would the paper be full of stories about people losing their *** in the housing market yet your tax bill comes in with the cheery thought that YOUR community is apparently unaffected by the rumored drop in housing values. Must be somewhere else.

In Georgia, the Chief Appraiser works for the Board of Assessors. The law prevents the County governing body from firing him. This helps considerably in preventing what you suggest. Assessors and appraisers in GA are charged with setting values. Its up to the governing body of the county (and the cities) to establish budgets and take the tax digest and determine a millage rate. What I hate to see is the politician that wants to know what the digest "numbers" are going to be so they can draw up a budget that will hold the millage rate. They work things backwards, using the digest values to figure out if they can get more money in tax revenues without raising the millage rate (thus ******* off the taxpayers). IN THEORY, the digest and its fair market values, and the setting of the budget happen independently of each other, and without any consideration of the other, but in reality, we have the county administrator, working for the commissioners, asking us what the rough digest numbers are, so they can backdoor a budget.

The Atlanta area has experienced drops in value, largely in the under $200K houses. Houses above that have held up in value, with only slight drops. Indeed, there have been the occasional seller the news media focuses on that "gave away" the house, and the county I'm in is outside the high growth area of Atlanta. We look at sales, they are an important part of the process of setting values (via sales ratio studies) and what we found is that our values (the assessors FMV) is right on the money. Sales are slow, taking much longer to sell than before, but when the sale closes, the price is still up there where it was before. That will not be true in more urban areas, where buyers have more to chose from.

One of the biggest arguments is the "look at all these foreclosures selling cheap, and lowering the value of my house", but what we have found is few foreclosure sales in our county, vs the number of bank owned houses. The banks are sitting on the foreclosed houses and not selling them. I don't know how long this can go on, it appears they are "dribbling" them on the market one by one.

Again, this is the area I live in, not even other parts of Atlanta, let alone elsewhere.

Charles

 

[GearBeer]

Frankly, the situation you guys are talking about is foreign to me. The township voluntarily reduced my assessed and taxable value last year by ~30% to a hair under what I paid for the property (about 6 months before).

With direct representation by locally elected officials, I just don't see any maliciousness. Since property taxes are a local thing it seems to me that they're just trying to cover the expanding costs of maintaining and upgrading our neglected infrastructure.

 

[Chris Adams]

Lordy, I would trade with any of you.
Here the property tax is used, like the permit process, as a way to attain certain goals.

The main goal is that only members of the Raza live in this area.

So if you have the misfortune to not be of that persuasion, you pay WAY more in taxes, you get lots of code enforcement issues, you pay lots of permits, and often get told you can't do that here.

Sure your neighbors can, but well, they belong here, you don't.

Great fun.
Appeal? You are kidding. Mr. Sanchez says you owe it.
His boss is Mr. Rodriguez.
Who is also his cousin.
But that's OK, the city council will fix it, Oh wait, no they are his uncle, his cousin, his brother-in-law and his mother's best friend.

Code enforcement? That's for people who don't belong here.

If you 'belong here' which means you look like the enforcement person, then you can do any ****** thing you want. Fire hazard? Only for the people who don't belong here.

Anglos get it worst, Asians next, followed by Blacks. Blacks, at least, can appeal.

Asians and Anglos get sneered out of the office, as they don't belong here and have no federal protections.

Most the Asians have left the area. I assume they really are smarter.
I wouldn't buck the system myself but my wife's family is in the area and she won't leave, so I do what I have to, pay more, get hassled a lot and just survive.

You do start to feel like a Jew or Gypsy in 1934 Berlin after awhile.

So the other problems posted in this thread sound pretty minor to me.
Trade you.

 

[kdtjb]

Remember when Calif. tried or did pass the 1% tax law? your $215 on $23000 is just under that. And thats enough for your property taxes considering it's only one of the taxes your paying.