Who amongst us hasn't "checked the spark" once or twice?
Telephone Land Line Removal?
- Thread starter Beemer
- Start date
Who amongst us hasn't "checked the spark" once or twice?
When it happens at 11 years old the lesson sticks. And we say "Grab that!"
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I shocked myself twice when I was a kid. The one I really remember was plugging in the old non-polarized radio in the garage. Not really sure what happened but I sure felt it from toes to the hair on my head.
Probably nothing you did wrong. Those "All American Five" radios were a shock hazard from the factory.
The majority of those radios were made of plastic to prevent contact with the metal chassis. Occasionally, someone would make the chassis out of metal, which was rare but did happen.
Even the plastic ones had metal screws that contacted the chassis on the bottom. If you happened to plug it in where the hot is tied to the chassis and touched one of those screws on the bottom, you were likely to get zapped.
reader2580
Well-known member
Lumen (formerly Centurylink) has been losing billions per year. They sold off a large portion of their landline business a few years ago.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
that is standby voltage.... ring voltage is double that in AC and pulses... ive been shocked by ring voltage
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Yup. Ring voltage is 90VAC superimposed on the -48VDC standby.
You can get killed by the ring. Is it likely? No. Can freak things happen? Yes. A healthy person should be able to take it... but that's not any reason to test that theory.
You can get killed by the ring. Is it likely? No. Can freak things happen? Yes. A healthy person should be able to take it... but that's not any reason to test that theory.
dave*99
Well-known member
Better check again. The line is rarely ringing when you may be cutting it.
I was referring to operating a land line infrastructure not removing it, which almost seems like a waste of time.
Voltage does not kill, it's amperage.
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1 amp and up can kill, but a ring generates less that 100mA of current, so yah, not very likely with anyone.
Just for the record.... When I was a young kid, probably 12 years old, (probably 1985) I was adding a new telephone line into our new family room addition..... I was stripping live phone wires with my teeth. (which I had done a handful of times in the past) I never experienced any shock, until the phone rang at the EXACT SAME moment when the stripped wire was still touching my tongue/teeth/mouth/lips. lol. I can tell you with 100% certainty, from personal experience, telephone lines do indeed have increased voltage while ringing, AND it's not enough current to kill you, even if the wires are in your mouth. lolol
Yes, this is a true story.
Yes, this is a true story.
Correct. The point I was making is that during the ring, the combined voltages can allow a non-negligible amount of current to pass through normal skin resistance.
A healthy adult will typically be fine, but if someone has a cardiac condition, it could cause a problem. I once saw someone go into the early stages of cardiac distress from the residual capacitance in a hardwired smoke detector. Ironically, that smoke detector probably saved his life due to the follow-up, where they identified a problem with his heart structure.
I've worked with a lot of high current -48VDC powered telecom systems and I've never felt anything when incidental contact was made. Always a "shock" when someone accidently shorts something however.
Usually stories I've seen about people killing themselves with low voltage usually involve a low voltage source (usually a welder) and accidental contact on low resistance, sweaty skin on the abdomen by their heart. The biggest factor being that unlike a ring where you'd likely pull away these are situations where constant current is applied until somebody finds you cooking.
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sparky 1971
Well-known member
About 25 years ago I was sent to a model house that had a dead phone jack that was inside a built in cabinet. I crawled in with a screwdriver and took the jack apart and saw that a wire was broken on the screw terminal. Easy fix, but I didn't have anything to strip it with. Instead of doing the intelligent thing and coming out for strippers, I did the lazy thing and stripped it with my teeth. I heard a phone ring in another room while every tooth in my mouth got rattled loose. There may not be enough current to do any damage, but there is enough voltage to be an attention getter.
I used to work with a BK Precision telephone tester. I swear those bastards at the factory set the, "NORMAL" ring test to something insane. We usually found that, "LOW" was similar to what the CO would normally provide. That machine felt extra spicy for sure.
john.k
Well-known member
All the old engine welders were 100v DC open circuit ...........used to get a burning sensation with wet gloves ......nothing fatal ,thats for sure ...........Then the "thought -police" discovered it .........old welders all condemned ,all new welders limited to 32VDC.......and dont work worth ****.
Rare but a welder can kill.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
its actually way less than that which is why GFCIs trip at 5-6ma
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
SOMEDAY ...
Someone is going to figure out a "cost effective" way of "harvesting" the millions of tons of copper in old, now dead, phone lines !
Someone is going to figure out a "cost effective" way of "harvesting" the millions of tons of copper in old, now dead, phone lines !
john.k
Well-known member
You mean like stealing tons of cable at night ?.............one crowd had 'harvested ' a truckload of heavy underground cable ,when the cops arrived .......seems the telco had been compiling a dossier on crooked scrap yards ,contractors,and well known metal thieves for 12 months before the 'sting'............Without evidence of 'criminal conspiracy ',the courts dismiss copper theft as a petty offence and let off guys stealing $10k of copper a night.
Phone company doesn't come out to do anything anymore for days upon end if that.
We just cut the service line, tie it around the pole. Toss the wire in the dumpster back at the station.
We just cut the service line, tie it around the pole. Toss the wire in the dumpster back at the station.
Does OSHA and the union know that unqualified firefighters are cutting and stealing phone lines from accident scenes?
I bet you don't even check if it's ringing 90V first....
We don't follow OSHA.Does OSHA and the union know that unqualified firefighters are cutting and stealing phone lines from accident scenes?
I bet you don't even check if it's ringing 90V first....
The Union, LOL. These are the same guys that think we should be pulling electric meters off the side of the houses yet won't change out an outlet at the station because "they're not electricians." Yet part of our job is to have a basic understanding of electricity, construction, and mechanical aptitude.
I think it depends on the fire department. In Phoenix, they likely call the city, and someone is sent to fix the issue. Are you in a rural area? If there's no facilities department, someone should take the initiative to fix it themselves. Honestly, it's hard to mess up pulling a meter. Installing a meter is riskier, depending on the condition of the meter socket.
Haha, ok.
What could go wrong pulling a potentially corroded/damaged meter from a base that may or may not be still attached to a building on fire?
I do actually.You got them cool firefighter gloves tho right?
But last time I pulled the meter I wore welding gloves, face shield and FR clothing. And I only pulled it after checking pan condition and killing the main so that there was no draw.
I had previously cut the incorrectly double tapped 10 gage from the load lugs during a power outage. I could see the line was still ripped from the pole so figured I was safe.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
I know a FF who pulled a meter and got badly injured. Now he’s disabled (and retired)… should never pull meters like that
I was sort of joking about you stealing work from the local telephone union...
Jokes aside, how are FF not required to follow OSHA?
Dad retired about 6yrs ago, I know for a fact they didn't wear much hearing protection as he's now fairly deaf.
reader2580
Well-known member
The local fire department will not pull meters due to the possibility of arc flash. They will either turn off the main breaker if they can get to the panel, or wait for the utility to come turn off the power.
I replaced my meter base just before an emergency disconnect switch was required. I decided to install the switch anyhow as I figured future electrical upgrades could require the switch.
I replaced my meter base just before an emergency disconnect switch was required. I decided to install the switch anyhow as I figured future electrical upgrades could require the switch.
Lots of OSHA regulations have exceptions for emergency operations. Not to mention federal OSHA has limited power over state and local government agencies. So unless you're a private firefighting agency you aren't subjected to federal OSHA regulations. State and local government agencies are accountable to whatever state level OSHA organization exists which doesn't exist in all states.
FYI, an example on ladders:
Pretty much the first exception in there is:
1910.23(a)(1) Used in emergency operations such as firefighting, rescue, and tactical law enforcement operations, or training for these operations [...].
Not a firefighter so I can't say what goes on but when I've seen them respond to industrial fires lots of things they're doing look unsafe.
It varies state to state. For us in Ohio, we don't follow OSHA.
Exactly.... That was my point... However, there are very few exceptions to the rules.
I wrote our department policy and approved by the chief. In the event, a meter has to be pulled, full turn out gear, scba mask on air.
There's also a few guys that don't even need to think about doing it...if you get my point.
Fortunately, most of the meters locally can be turned off remotely by AEP. There's still some that can't be.
After regular business hours, dispatch will AEP if we need a PoCo guy on scene. Sometimes it can take a bit but if we tell them we need them emergency status ( call dependant) those guys usually bust their *** to get there.
We work hand and hand with them as much as we can. My hat off to the linemen.
reader2580
Well-known member
The local utility didn't have smart meters at the time I was talking to the fire chief. That would certainly make things easier for the fire department. I had to talk to the fire chief because I had questions if I had to leave walking space around solar panels on a detached garage roof. (He said no because they never vent a detached garage roof. They rarely enter a burning detached garage.)
Honestly if your department is pulling meters without the utility level of PPE I'd at least invest in a few of these.
MeterPuller® | Rauckman Utility Products
Safely remove and install single phase residential & poly phase industrial & commercial ring type or ringless electric meters with our reliable MeterPuller.
rauckmanutility.com
That's the thing, we don't. We get remote shut off or get the AEP crew on scene . t's been probably a decade since one of our guys pulled a meter.Honestly if your department is pulling meters without the utility level of PPE I'd at least invest in a few of these.
MeterPuller® | Rauckman Utility Products
Safely remove and install single phase residential & poly phase industrial & commercial ring type or ringless electric meters with our reliable MeterPuller.
While I understand the benefits of having something like what you linked, honestly, all it would do is give a few of these guys to pull the meter ...... "We have the tool to pull the meter so let's start pulling them "
There's just more to the whole situation than where we need to go. I just shake my head at times..
Definitely. If you have the support of the local utility, I agree—don't touch the equipment. I'm not sure how rural or well-equipped your department is.
I've seen departments where their responsibilities, for better or worse, extend far beyond structural firefighting. Firefighters working as natural gas technicians and the water utility.
I've seen departments where their responsibilities, for better or worse, extend far beyond structural firefighting. Firefighters working as natural gas technicians and the water utility.
Likely for the lines going to the homes and on the homes. Phone wire has relatively thin conductors so the fraction of insulation is high.
Be careful also when you pull phone lines. Some of the older ones were lead sheathed to prevent weathering. So try to dispose of responsibly if they appear to be that type.