The $10k 30x40 Pole Barn!

[73kay]

Hey guys, I am a newer member and am about to start a 30x40 pole barn project . I am pretty ambitious wanting to build an MVP (most viable project) and just want to the build the outside and do the inside insulation, wiring etc another day.

So here is the scoop: I restore old chevy trucks for fun and need some space.

30x40x10 Pole barn with 6x6x12 poles and 2x6 framing for the girts so everything should be flush and I don't have to build a frame on the inside later. The foundation will be 4in slab and the roof is gonna be shingled to match the house. I want to have 2 windows and the entry door on the long side with a 2 car single garage door on the 30' side. The siding I chose is handiboard and some still investigating weather I can substitute some plywood behind the hardiboard.

Costs that dialed in so far:

trusses : $2500
concrete: $1500 (15 yardsish) leftover for just outside the shop garage door. I have a lot of other costs estimated, but I want to wait till they are dialed in before I post them. Curious on your guys feedback and it won't break my heart if I go slightly over the 10k, but it sure beats my neighbor who spent 40k on a 32x40 frame constuction, but has hvac and a whole bunch of extras. Thanks for your feedback.


And for the Chevy Guys:
53 Chevy 3100 235 t5
69 Chevy stepside 250 3ott
76 Chevy shortwide 350 t5

 

[bullnerd]

Hi Kay,

Where are you located?

Are you building it yourself?

So the 2x6 girts will be on their "side" horizontally between the posts?

 

[73kay]

I'm in Central Texas (guess I need to update my profile) I will be building it mostly but I got 2 hired hands to help with the roof and just to keep me straight, I budget about $1500 for their help. Seems like cheap insurance to me to avoid doing something stupid and get the project done in a timely fashion.

As for the girts, I read here some folks will use "commercial" approach and have the 2x6 running across between poles 2' oc, instead of flat on the inside or outside. My buddy suggested just "frame the 2x6s out and place them between poles and secure them to the poles. The benefits to see are not wasting interior space on an internal framed wall and flush wall that I can insulate later rather easily.

 

[Walter_TA]

If you make it 10 foot tall you will have a hard time putting a lift in. Mine is 12 foot and works well. I made the concrete deeper where the lift is. 100 dollars a yard is cheap. Are you using remesh of Fiber?

 

[cj7jeep81]

I would recommend using a site like www.menards.com (if you have them nearby), as they have online software to build an estimate. Your poles will need to be longer than 12' as well. Depending on what your county calls for, you may need 3' in the ground, then 4" for the concrete, and 10' for the walls. Assuming you plan to use truss carriers (2x10 or 2x12) on the posts to attach the trusses to, that's another 9.25 or 11.25". So all told, on the sides your posts might need to be about 14'. Plus, your ground won't be perfectly level, and neither will the bottom of your holes, so a little extra is cheap insurance.

On my building, the posts on the gable ends are even longer, and go to the top of the truss (to support better). So in the center, they are probably another 5 or 6' long.

 

[brownbagg]

i did a 24x30x10 for under 5k. but you do need every bit of 12 feet

 

[73kay]

Walter_TA: I know later in life, I will be kicking myself, but I'm not planning on a lift for this shop, young and stupid, well see but I'm be grateful just to have space if you follow. As for the concrete, its the generic concrete spec. I don't have it off hand.

cj7jeep81: I have been on menards a lot lately, lol but I think kansas is as far south as they go. I am looking to get clarification from some neighbors on how they did their poles too, I probably will change to 14 or 16ft, as it won't change the cost too much, just putting a line in the sand to get started, thanks for the heads up.

brownbagg: damn, was all your roof and siding metal on that pole barn?

 

[C91x]

I did the bookshelf girts on mine. Mine are pushed out 1 1/2" from the poles so they are in line with the skirt boards. No matter what I did with my poles I couldn't get them perfectly straight as they have a bow in them. I doubt once metal was on I would ever be to notice but I ran string lines down and the lined the girts up with them and my walls are laser straight. Also I have a place for insulation now instead of having to build a wall just to hold insulation.

 

[stm317]

You might want to consider dimensions divisible by 4 or 8. Since most building materials come in 4 or 8 ft widths, it would give you the most space and the least amount of waste. Less waste means you aren't throwing money away, and it can mean the building goes up faster too.

For example, your 30 ft long walls will need the same amount of posts as a 32 ft long wall (assuming poles 8ft on center). This will come in handy for things like insulation later on too if that become something you want.

Also, with a $10k budget, don't dismiss something like needing longer posts as being "no big deal". If getting the right length post costs $20 more per post, and you've got around 14 posts, you just added $280 to the budget.

 

[Radix2]

Probably not what you want to hear, but take minute to think about it...

I really don't see why you will get any savings on that size a pole barn over stick built in Texas with minimal frost depth for a residential style finished building -( hardi sided, shingled, insulated and finished interior) .. after all, the pole barn saving is mainly in the foundation - and all you need is a thickened edge anyway.

IMO comparing your est $10K and your neighbor at $40K is kind of a delusion, accounting for a fraction of the cost now...and pretending not to pay the rest later.

Proper Hardi application need sheathing and vertical studs to fasten it to. Retrofitting a pole barn for siding and shingles removed the other pole barn cost savings - having a metal skinned exterior - no sheathing and open spans.

All of us have been lured by the super low prices some on here have and the come on pole barn prices in adverts - but converting the hay barn they propose to what you want is not cheap - and a lot of extra work that you may not need to do.

 

[73kay]

stm317: I hear you and I would like to, but I am contained by some trees to the west of the site and a 20ft gap to the east property line, and I love me trees especially in the summer! It will help shade the shop. The post depth cost is something ultimately I can't ignore, so I gotta pay more, then I will. the 10k budget is the goal, if its a 11k or 13k that's still beating quotes I got to do a steel building for 20k+ and I really want to learn by doing so the next shop in 15 years at a new property I can incorporate all my lessons learned etc.

Radix2: Thanks for the response, I will take a hard look at what I'm doing, as for my neighbor's shop, look its beautiful, its finished and nice. But I can't afford to drop 40k on a shop at once, I would rather get a shell done, pay cash, sweat one summer, upgrade to hvac the next year. I see it as a long term investment, mostly of my time and something to learn a lot from, I hate to have others do work that I can do and that's part of this website, is to find cool ways of doing things. I honestly do love this feedback, I need my plan to get beat up and shaken up, thanks!

 

[Radix2]

No reason you can't just get the shell stick built... for my garage and shop areas I did exactly that - way to hard to pre-plan all the nice shop and garage infrastructure..and save some $$$

 

[8mpg]

Concrete is going to cost more than that. My concrete guy is getting concrete at $120/yd, my cost with a slight friendly discount was $130/yd. Add in rebar, forms, etc.

Im having my concrete done and I'll be $10k for just the slab for 1800sqft.

 

[cj7jeep81]

Yeah, I agree with Radix2. Pole barns really start to become more economical the bigger you go. And since you don't want metal siding, and the posts are less than 8' centers, the cost difference is even smaller. I'd just run the numbers both ways, and see what you come up with.

Also, how close are the trees to the shop? You definitely don't want a big tree (no matter how beautiful) hanging over your shop waiting to drop a limb. Also, if you disturb the ground around the roots too much during the construction, you stand a higher chance of killing the tree.

 

[73kay]

cj7jeep81: I have about 4 trees about 12 feet west of the wall. They are clustered together native oaks that are slowly dying from disease the ground is sloped down from the east to west, so when we level the ground that should help a bit with roots etc.

8mpg: I was quoted $100/ft, but my helper said he can get $95 so. As for rebar and forms, I have those budgeted in other categories. If I am lucky I can reuse the forms for some misc stuff.

 

[ptgb]

If your county allows it, do a hybrid... pole barn foundation with stick built walls. I did a 24x36x10 for right around 10K.... by a builder. That was for just the shell. Another 5K in concrete and I finished the inside myself over the course of six months.

Check it out here: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=196027

 

[73kay]

ptgb,

That's pretty interesting, I will look into it, btw I went to college in Steubenville and got family in Warren, haha.

 

[rburke65]

Pole barn foundation and studded walls arethewayto go. Easy finish for the inside!

 

[Radix2]

what are you guys talking about "pole barn foundation" ?

This isn't up north where you need 4 foot deep foundations, this is Texas where they do thickened edges even for homes.

I dont see what the poles do for you at all.

He needs close spaced trusses for roof sheathing and shingles, needs studs for siding...

The skirt boards on pole buildings are one of the worst features - why not thicken the edge of the slab with his cheap concrete, build away on top. Simple.

I don't see any savings.

 

[Jeff Ivers]

I built my own 24x50 framed shop and had a 36x36 pole barn erected. When I had the barn built in 2000, it was advertised at $5000. Adding a slab, minimal electric and running water to the outside of the building doubled the cost (with me doing the electric and water). There is nothing wrong with putting up a shell and then doing the rest later - that's what I did with the shop and the barn. You have not mentioned anything about electric and plumbing. This needs to be planned for before erecting the shell. At the bare minimum you will want electric before you work in the building. If you run the 2x6 s flat, how will they be attached to the posts - toe-nailed? If so, that is not as strong as if they are nailed to the outside of the posts. I originally used shingles on my shop, but they just do not hold up for that many years - I now have barn tin and wished I had started with that.

 

[73kay]

the 2x6 is framed between the poles and nailed in, so its not just horizontal toe nailed to the poles. I do plan to add electricity and water to the outside later.

 

[matt_i]

Just to throw some wild numbers around

truss 2500
crete 1500
crete placers and finishers 1000
siding 2000
roofing 2000
framing 2000
2 garage doors, 1000 for no insulated metal skins
basic electrical all diy 1000

13k.

no man doors or windows, no crushed stone base for slab, no reinforcing steel, no coin for fasteners.

If you are going to work primarily on cars/trucks I question not planning for the eventuality of a vehicle lift with at least scissor trusses or an elevated section.

 

[Diesel Dan]

I had one of those "one day" garages while living near Warren Ohio.
It was there when I bought the place, never cared for it. The next house we bought I built a traditional pole barn, 30x40-14.

OP, I was in your shoes once and needed storage space. Had funds for a 30x40-12 or 32x48-10. Went for the square footage of the 32x48. Wasn't a year later I wished I had the 12' walls, spent the next few years thinking of raising the building but ended up having to move. Repurposed an old dairy feed barn and had a 11.5' ceiling, next build had 14' walls and my current has 17.5' ceiling.

Adding square footage later is much easier/cheaper than adding height. If you were to build a small shop with say 14' walls it would be easy to add on additions with low 10' ceiling for a work shop. Something to consider.

 

[Shootinok]

Hello neighbor to the south.
My shop is a 24x30 pole barn with an 8' lean-to on one side. This gives me 30x32 without looking like a box. I went with 10' high walls and scissor trusses to get the ceiling higher inside the main bays.
I built mine almost by myself with help on the slab, setting the trusses and putting the metal roof sheets on.
I went with LP smartside over the hardi planks for workability and serviceability. My research led me to believe if a baseball or a rock damages a plank they're much harder to replace. And I have grandkids.
OSB sheathing first, then siding.
All in for me was right at $13K for the shell. Another $2K later for licensed electrician to bring service in and set main panel.
You'll spend way more on fasteners than you imagine.
It took me almost a year, working on it only on weekends as I have a day job that actually expects me to be there EVERY day.

 

[Shootinok]

I’ll attach a few pictures...






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[Shootinok]

I wanted you to see the inside as the scissor trusses really make a huge difference.
I have an 8:12 pitch then inside ends up 6:12 so I gained 5' in the middle.
The last 4 trusses, I had built normal with 2x6 bottom cords for a storage loft over the door. I would loose that space anyway with the door up, so might as well capitalize on it.
The lean-to bay only has an 8' wall on the outside, but that works for me as that side is a work area and storage for my old tractor.
The main bays however could accommodate a lift some day if I get there.
I poured a 5 1/2" slab also.

Guess what I'm trying to show you is I had an initial budget of $14k. I got close, but I had to do ALOT of work and watched CL for a lot of materials too. No insulation. No heat or cool but it does have a first aid cabinet with Bourbon in it.

 

[padroo]

I built a 32 X 40 X 10 years ago and installed a 16 foot roll up door in the 30 foot end. It isn't really deep enough for two full size cars end to end. I wish I would have went 44 foot deep minimum.
89 Town Car and my Dodge Dakota end to end is a tight fit.

 

[B.C.Biker]

I like Diesel Dan and Shootinook's way of thinking. Build a smaller building with higher quality now. Something like the lean to addition can be added anytime and cost effectively maybe not needing windows and doors, using less concrete in the floor if only foot traffic. Wouldn't have to be same length as main building to look normal. If some type of wall/curtain is used can be climate controlled separately to save ongoing costs as well.
First thing I ever built in my life was a 36x36 pole shed open on one side for storage. Had help from my wife and a buddy. Learned a LOT the hard way.
Maybe build a lean to "addition" first with plans to add on. Spend time with that building then use your new knowledge to build an excellent building next.
Plus you'll know for sure what you really want in the main building.

 

[Diesel Dan]

but it does have a first aid cabinet with Bourbon in it.

Might want to make that the FIRST purchase!

 

[brownbagg]

Walter_TA:

brownbagg: damn, was all your roof and siding metal on that pole barn?

mine not a pole barn but a prefab metal bldg.

acemetalbuildings.com

 

[MrSurly]

First, you might find some info useful in my Build thread Texas 30x40x14 Budget Post Frame Self-Build
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...m/forum/showthread.php?p=6587097&share_type=t
I wish you the best on your target budget, I think it might be doable but it’s going to be a challenge.

1. What county or municipal jurisdiction are you regulated by?
2. Are you going to have to get a permit?
3. Are they going to require ‘engineered’ plans?
4. Have you investigated the cost of the dirt work, building the pad? Just a little slope can cost an amazing amount of money to prep.
5. When I started mine, I made SOOO many flawed assumptions. I had to learn a good bit and the most important was what was what elements of the build were REQUIRED.
Where I could build it,
How it had to be approved
What I was allowed or not allowed to do.
My initial numbers were all optimistic and I’m thinking yours may be as well.
I added multiple elements to mine above the ‘basic’ 30/40 that drove up the cost of course, but without those add ons, and including the dirt work, building the basic would have cost 18,000.
With the add-ons, upgrades I’m well over 25 withOUT a finished interior.
Trusses: 1500
Timbers: 1500
Lumber: 1500
Steel: 6000
Dirt: 4500
Concrete 130/yard, total 3800 with the crew.




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[MrSurly]

Also, every design for pole frame construction that I’ve looked at has had at LEAST 3’ deep holes. The posts need to rise above the header at least above the truss on the eave wall for secure fastening of the truss so your post should be 14 footers on the eave walls and on the gable walls, each post should extend to the top of the gable truss at each post, height determined by door placement.
If you are using a double wide garage door, you’ll likely need at least one LVL above it.
If an engineered plan is required, a bunch of these unknowns will become knowns.


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[spudley]

73... Like other DIY's on these threads, I like your attitude. My grandad called that "gumption"!
For reasons spelled out in prior posts and since you're framing between poles with 2x6's anyway, you really should consider framed rather than poles. Do some comparative analysis and you'll be surprised.
I'd also get a quote on scissors trusses for future ceiling height possibilities.
I've built more than a few projects and two things are always true, it costs more than you think and it takes longer than planned, but...there's not much to compare with the satisfaction of knowing YOU did it.
Don't forget the "first aid kit".
Good Luck!

 

[Firebrick43]

what are you guys talking about "pole barn foundation" ?

This isn't up north where you need 4 foot deep foundations, this is Texas where they do thickened edges even for homes.

I dont see what the poles do for you at all.

He needs close spaced trusses for roof sheathing and shingles, needs studs for siding...

The skirt boards on pole buildings are one of the worst features - why not thicken the edge of the slab with his cheap concrete, build away on top. Simple.

I don't see any savings.

Pole 4' deep give you your shear strength. Without that you need sheathing, at 12 tall probably continuous. I Agee as you start doing things hybrid it probably better just to go to a true stick build however.

To the op. Think real hard about bookshelf girts. You save 3" total in a building by using them. That the only real advantage(maybe a slight advantage to hanging things on the wall but there is another way of dealing with that.)

Cost more, weaker if they are just toenails in, even more expensive if they use sting tie brackets, more labor, and harder to insulate with less performance. 2x4 girts 16' long inside and out provides more shear strength and allows 8' or 10' wide continuous blanket insulation hung from the headers. Much faster and less thermal bridging. Those will be the most expensive 3" you could have.

 

[73kay]

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback, got a quote to do it stick framed and I think that's the way I gonna go, tweaked the foundation costs a bit also. I appreciate all the feedback. I'm used to sweating in the driveway and crawling thru my garage to get in or out, so a bamboo shack with palm trees is a dream. I am looking at higher ceilings but foundation work can I do if I ever get a lift in the future? I don't really plan for it, but I'm seeing the cost isn't as crazy as I thought. More to follow and just to let you know, I have a neighbor with a bobcat that just charges for diesel, so that is gonna offset some prep costs a bit.

 

[MrSurly]

That’s good news I think.
I’d still like to know just for my curiosity, what are your requirements from the local government?
There’s SOME code agency no matter how rural you are.
Their requirements will still matter, stick, Steel or pole.

Also, I mentioned this threadin a chat with a buddy along with the stated size and cost projection. He replied “what’s he building it out of, barbed wire?”
That sorta sums up the thinking, I’m afraid.
I started out *exACTLY* the same on my build.... you learn a bit as you go.


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[Radix2]

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback, got a quote to do it stick framed and I think that's the way I gonna go, tweaked the foundation costs a bit also. I appreciate all the feedback. I'm used to sweating in the driveway and crawling thru my garage to get in or out, so a bamboo shack with palm trees is a dream. I am looking at higher ceilings but foundation work can I do if I ever get a lift in the future? I don't really plan for it, but I'm seeing the cost isn't as crazy as I thought. More to follow and just to let you know, I have a neighbor with a bobcat that just charges for diesel, so that is gonna offset some prep costs a bit.

I think that will make your life easier and give you a better finished product. Have you looked at LP Smartside vs the Hardie? Same look, same warranty, but easier to work with - the real trick with these products (and a big cost) is what to use for trim. Even if you go with Hardie, few use their trim boards, so that is something to look into, some builders just go with your basic spruce, but that defeats the purpose IMO.

Also keep in mind that you really have to follow the details to get the expected life and look. Good luck!

 

[73kay]

MrSurly,

I have local deed restrictions on spacing and having to try and match the house, hence the shingles and roof, but as far as county, both my neighbors didn't get permits or whatnot. They both waited until the county saw the buildings and wanted to up their taxes, then they said if it had water or electric or whatnot. Doesn't answer your question I'm afraid, but is there something else I need to look into?

 

[stm317]

MrSurly,

I have local deed restrictions on spacing and having to try and match the house, hence the shingles and roof, but as far as county, both my neighbors didn't get permits or whatnot. They both waited until the county saw the buildings and wanted to up their taxes, then they said if it had water or electric or whatnot. Doesn't answer your question I'm afraid, but is there something else I need to look into?

Since it sounds like you're planning on moving to another place before too long, trying to sell a house with an unpermitted structure can be a real chore in a lot of places. If you're going to be investing decent money into this building, you don't want to take chances with the local government. Talk to somebody like a county assessor or building inspector before you spend any money or move any dirt. It will make sure that you don't have to spend valuable time or money re-doing things later.

 

[73kay]

Just spoke with the county, they don't have any building permits, but she did say I had to follow my deed restrictions, which even though a lot of neighbors aren't following, I will abide by for this shop.