The Best Consumer 3D Printer

[loganb]

So, if you were buying a new printer today, say $500ish. Hobby use.

What would you buy?

Used Prusa mk3 around me on FB marketplace will be under that price....often 350 to 450. It won't have multi color support like a Bambu A1, but is a proven workhorse and very reliable

Bambu A1 with AMS lite is usually around 499 on sale as I recall. I have one and it is a nice printer, but has the noted data privacy concern. For some that may be relevant, for others may not...each person has to make their own decision.

 

[Cruzan80]

Agreed on the used $800 printer for under $500. As an example, just sent a friend a FBMP listing for a P1S w/AMS for $400 (new is $799).

And yes, I get the potential irony of buying a Bambu off FB, when talking about potential data mining...

 

[American Locomotive]

That doesn't seem to be the case, please read the announcement from Bambu rather than relying on a third party's misinterpretation of a partial read of an announcement. The people making these claims appear to be making sensational claims to drive traffic and revenue to their sites. Bambu has made it clear that third party software and tools will continue to be supported.

It looks like SD card printing will not require authentication ...at least for now, however, 3rd party applications will now be forced to use their Bambu connect app as an intermediary. The developers of Orca Slicer and other automation solutions already stated that the changes will basically completely kill the main features of their product and make them useless. The applications will not be able to connect directly to the printer and control them.

Finally, when a company literally tells users that they will disable their printer if they don't update, and will block printer functionality if not authenticated, I am not sure why you would not believe them? Companies don't put things in Terms of Services that they don't intend to use/do. Imagine you're walking around with a friend and encounter a guy with a knife. He waves the knife in your face and says "I plan on stabbing you in chest". You then turn to your friend and say "Well, he's not currently actively stabbing me, so we're probably fine".

Why wouldn't you believe the guy with the knife is about to stab you? Why wouldn't you believe the compan can remotely lock down your printer by forcing an update when they very clearly state in their ToS that they plan on doing just that?

Update: Bambu Labs is already reneging on the update, and has stated that they will be reintroducing true "developer" LAN mode allowing direct connection to the printer again. They knew they fucked up, and are in serious damage-control mode now.

 

[Cruzan80]

Finally, when a company literally tells users that they will disable their printer if they don't update, and will block printer functionality if not authenticated, I am not sure why you would not believe them?

This is what the official Bambu blog post states

Critical Operations That Require Authorization

The following printer operations will require authorization controls:

Binding and unbinding the printer.
Initiating remote video access.
Performing firmware upgrades.
Initiating a print job (via LAN or cloud mode).
Controlling motion system, temperature, fans, AMS settings, calibrations, etc.

Operations That Do Not Require Authorization

The following actions will remain unaffected by the authorization mechanism:

Sending status information from the printer (e.g., MQTT status push for tools like HomeAssistant).
Starting a print job using SD cards.
General operations outside the listed authorization controls.

What happens if I never upgrade to this firmware?

You may continue using an older firmware version that does not include the new security updates; however, this means the printers may miss out on important security fixes or bug patches included in newer versions. We highly encourage updating to the latest firmware version for the best experience and enhanced security.

So I am missing where they are LITERALLY saying they will turn off print functionality for SD cards with the new update in gemeral, or turn off printing for those who don't update. In fact, they specifically say the opposite. Can you show me in these cases, where they are

literally tells users that they will disable their printer if they don't update, and will block printer functionality if not authenticated

For your example, it would be like the guy says "I will not stab you unless you agree to new rules, then break those new rules. Otherwise, don't stand near me and breathe in my super macho ambiance. If you walk away, because you don't want to be so close to my awesome-ness, I won't stab you".

Again, fear-mongering based on people's perception of how they MAY implement them (though they have publicly stated otherwise). Their blog post is logically consistent with the part of the T&C below, so when in doubt, I go with what someone says their intentions are. Not "I WILL stab you (turn off printer)", but rather MAY in certain circumstances.

Due to the importance of these updates, your product may block new print job before the updates is installed,

 

[fillister]

Woops, sorry Louis , the private key hack is on your site...

 

[American Locomotive]

So I am missing where they are LITERALLY saying they will turn off print functionality for SD cards with the new update in gemeral, or turn off printing for those who don't update. In fact, they specifically say the opposite. Can you show me in these cases, where they are

I did update my post regarding that SD card printing will remain unchanged without authentication.

Again, fear-mongering based on people's perception of how they MAY implement them (though they have publicly stated otherwise). Their blog post is logically consistent with the part of the T&C below, so when in doubt, I go with what someone says their intentions are. Not "I WILL stab you (turn off printer)", but rather MAY in certain circumstances.

Once again, no company puts something in their ToS that they don't intend to use. They wouldn't have bothered going through the effort of re-writing a ToS, clearing it with lawyers, and publishing it if they didn't intend to use it. They literally said "Due to the importance of these updates, your product may block new print job before the updates is installed, and will immediately provide update notifications to help you understand the related information." With no clarification on what they would deem an important enough update to warrant a print-block.

Let me revise my earlier analogy to something a bit more accurate:

You download a rideshare app, make an account, agree to the Terms of Service, pay for a ride, and the car comes to pick you up. As you get in the car, the driver informs you that the Terms of Service has been updated in the time since you made your account, and you need to agree to it. You look at the new terms of service, and it says "In a situation in which the driver deems necessary, the driver MAY stab you in the face with a sharp knife". The driver then looks at you and promises he won't stab you in the face even though he just made you agree to something legally allowing him to stab you in the face. You gonna trust him?

Are you really going to believe a giant Chinese corporation's PR-blog-post that says they pinky-promise they aren't going to do the thing ...that they went out of their way to update their Terms-of-Service, legally giving them the permission to do?

 

[Jeff]

and now for something completely different...

the wife wanted a ball holder, me made ball holders.

happy wife, happy life!

 

[Cruzan80]

Are you really going to believe a giant Chinese corporation's PR-blog-post that says they pinky-promise they aren't going to do the thing ...that they went out of their way to update their Terms-of-Service, legally giving them the permission to do?

Company's official blog post, vs random people on the internet going over hypotheticals... Hmm, tough call on who I believe.

It is clear we are going to disagree on this matter, and you already have your mind made up the company is evil. Not going to argue further about "Chicken Little" scenarios. Most ToS have language like this in it, saying if you don't act how we want, we can close it down (Microsoft, EA, etc). Bambu wants to keep it in their ecosystem, that is their right. They never said other products would be supported indefinitely. People can make their choices based on this info (which, as you said, they have now repealed). So the evil giant isn't going to be ... quite so evil, yet?

Again, not sure how they will stop me from running prints off an SD card, with an un-updated printer that doesn't connect to the network, until the current Bambu slicer (or Orca or others) physically can't be installed on to Win 12+ to generate those files. But you keep trying to prove they will hold it hostage, somehow.

I am done with this line of argument.

 

[American Locomotive]

Company's official blog post, vs random people on the internet going over hypotheticals... Hmm, tough call on who I believe.

It is clear we are going to disagree on this matter, and you already have your mind made up the company is evil. Not going to argue further about "Chicken Little" scenarios. Most ToS have language like this in it, saying if you don't act how we want, we can close it down (Microsoft, EA, etc). Bambu wants to keep it in their ecosystem, that is their right. They never said other products would be supported indefinitely. People can make their choices based on this info (which, as you said, they have now repealed). So the evil giant isn't going to be ... quite so evil, yet?

They're the ones who implemented the 3rd party remote-control functionality in their printers to begin with. They advertised it as a feature. Then they effectively removed it.

Yes, many companies use language like that all the time in their ToS. That's why there are piles of no-longer-functional "smart" devices in landfills. The companies' Terms of Service agreements allow them to stop supporting the device whenever, with no legal repercussions. It's why companies like EA or Microsoft will ban your accounts without reason, locking you out of thousands of dollars of software you paid for.

However with those "Smart" devices, that language was typically already in the ToS. That is not the case with these Bambu printers. They changed the terms of the sale, after the sale. No one should be okay a company reserving the right to disable their $1400 printer, when that wasn't even what they originally agreed to when they bought it.

 

[Dh3256]

Once again, no company puts something in their ToS that they don't intend to use.

That is a very week argument, companies do put terms in the ToS they have no intention of using, just to cover potential legal exposure and possibly allow for future changes. One very common example is that the ToS for essentially all free services state that the fee can change.

Haven't yet seen anything that accurately contradicts the perspective that this is fear-mongering to drive revenue to people who have to drive activity to generate revenue.

No one should be okay a company reserving the right to disable their $1400 printer, when that wasn't even what they originally agreed to when they bought it.

I doubt anyone prefers that, but it is common in the marketplace. I have a Sony Bravio TV that was "disabled" by a OTA software update, after Sony decided not to continue to license the program guide. That is the typical scenario with smart devices, that features and/or functionality can be limited after an update, but the devices are still usable. That is why there are NOT "piles of no-longer-functional "smart" devices in landfills", the devices are still usable, so people keep using them. As a practical matter, Magnuson-Moss and other federal laws require companies to support products for at least seven years, well past the useful life of most electronic products.

 

[American Locomotive]

That is a very week argument, companies do put terms in the ToS they have no intention of using, just to cover potential legal exposure and possibly allow for future changes. One very common example is that the ToS for essentially all free services state that the fee can change.

I'm not so sure that's a great argument. How many "completely free" services transitioned to pay/subscription models, putting what they used to offer for free behind paywalls?

Haven't yet seen anything that accurately contradicts the perspective that this is fear-mongering to drive revenue to people who have to drive activity to generate revenue.

Rossman (in the linked video) didn't monetize that video, has no in-video sponsors on that video and there's no ads on his website he linked in the video. This is a guy who has dedicated the past decade of his life fighting for consumer rights.

That is why there are NOT "piles of no-longer-functional "smart" devices in landfills", the devices are still usable, so people keep using them.

Just off the top of my head: Google Nest Secure, Spotify Car Thing, Juicero, Amazon Echo Look, Revolv Smart Hubs, Jamboard are all devices that were rendered completely unusable. Some of them less than a couple of years old before they were bricked. I know more than one person who has already replaced a more or less "functional" Smart TV because a bunch of streaming apps stopped working/getting updated, even though the set was not old.

As a practical matter, Magnuson-Moss and other federal laws require companies to support products for at least seven years, well past the useful life of most electronic products.

Magnuson-Moss does not require a company to support any products for any length of time. There are no federal laws mandating a minimum amount of support for any consumer product. There are "implied" warranty laws, but those basically boil down to that the product at the very minimum has to work out of the box, nothing more.

 

[Dh3256]

Magnuson-Moss does not require a company to support any products for any length of time. There are no federal laws mandating a minimum amount of support for any consumer product. There are "implied" warranty laws, but those basically boil down to that the product at the very minimum has to work out of the box, nothing more.

That is not correct, the federal laws I referenced do require support for a minimum period of time. Implied warranties include merchantability and fitness for purpose, which require that the product work for it's intended period for a period of time. Here is a link to 15 USC Ch. 50, commonly referred to as the "Magnuson-Moss Act", in case anyone wants to confirm for themselves.

You are welcome to your opinions but please don't misrepresent factual information.

 

[Cruzan80]

I knew I said I was done, but this keeps getting more ridiculous...

This is a guy who has dedicated the past decade of his life fighting for consumer rights.

And yet this same person has said that he is (in how own words), the ONLY person hosting the step by step instructions to remotely break into other's printers. And said that someone would have to sue him to take it down. Doesn't sound like he is advocating for consumer rights in this case...

To use your earlier analogy, this is like someone who advocates against all forms of violence to post a step-by-step video on how to use a knife to disable and kill someone. Not how to defend yourself or stop it from happening, but just "Best, most efficient way to kill someone with a knife". And his argument of why it is ok to post it is that it will shame the knife makers in some way?

It would be like NHTSA posting a "How to Steal a Kia using a USB stick", so everyone knows that even though Kia tried to make a security system, NHTSA wants to point out how they failed. Not how to fix it or make it better. Never mind the increase in car theft, it is in the name of "consumer safety"...

 

[American Locomotive]

That is not correct, the federal laws I referenced do require support for a minimum period of time. Implied warranties include merchantability and fitness for purpose, which require that the product work for it's intended period for a period of time. Here is a link to 15 USC Ch. 50, commonly referred to as the "Magnuson-Moss Act", in case anyone wants to confirm for themselves.

You are welcome to your opinions but please don't misrepresent factual information.

You very specifically claimed "7 years of support". The Federal regulations as far as I can tell just state that if a product does not have an express (written) warranty, it has an "implied warranty" guarenteeing merchantability and fitness for purpose. The definitions for merchantability and fitness for purpose are vague, and seem to mandate that a product must work out of the box and actually do what it says it does. Furthermore, the terms of an express warranty can waive or override any implied warranty in most (39) states. Some states have stronger implied warranty laws that can't be waived or overriden, but they're still vague and use phrases like "normal expected life". Products like the Amazon Echo or the Spotify Car thing that lasted barely a year before being canceled are kind of proof that implied warranties are difficult to enforce and have no teeth. Unless you live in Maine.

If you can point me to something that very plainly states Federal rules mandate products are supported for 7 years, I will concede I'm wrong. I've been searching for an hour scouring every warranty and warranty law site and can't find it.

I knew I said I was done, but this keeps getting more ridiculous...


And yet this same person has said that he is (in how own words), the ONLY person hosting the step by step instructions to remotely break into other's printers. And said that someone would have to sue him to take it down. Doesn't sound like he is advocating for consumer rights in this case...

To use your earlier analogy, this is like someone who advocates against all forms of violence to post a step-by-step video on how to use a knife to disable and kill someone. Not how to defend yourself or stop it from happening, but just "Best, most efficient way to kill someone with a knife". And his argument of why it is ok to post it is that it will shame the knife makers in some way?

It would be like NHTSA posting a "How to Steal a Kia using a USB stick", so everyone knows that even though Kia tried to make a security system, NHTSA wants to point out how they failed. Not how to fix it or make it better. Never mind the increase in car theft, it is in the name of "consumer safety"...

That is not accurate. The only thing Rossman shared, was the already publicly posted method to extract the private key from the software. Not a step-by-step guide to hack into people's printers.

Having the private key itself is useless if you don't know what to do with it. It's literally equivalent to someone giving you a key to a door in a random building 1500 miles away. You have no idea which door, which building or even what city it is in. The key is useless on its own.

Anyone who actually knows what to do with the private key doesn't need instructions to extract it.

The extraction of the public key was so trivially easy that it more or less proves that Bambu was lying about doing this for "improved security". He is pointing out the hypocrisy of their statements and forcing their hand.

 

[Cruzan80]

The only thing Rossman shared, was the already publicly posted method to extract the private key from the software

Except by his own statement in the video, everyone else took it down. So no longer "publicly posted". He is posting someone's "how to" so people can violate consumer protections.

Someone used these steps, found a private key, then remotely hacked into other's printers with a message. Leaving any part of the instructions on how to do that doesn't really fit the image of "spending the last decade protecting consumer rights" (your words). The ease or lack thereof is irrelevant in this case, if he is doing it for the reasons of "Consumer Rights".

"Honestly, your honor, I only gave him the key to a random house. It isn't my fault they figured out which house it was and robbed them. I was just trying to to prove that they were bad locks. Really, I am an advocate for the homeowner..."

...DOES NOT COMPUTE...

 

[American Locomotive]

Except by his own statement in the video, everyone else took it down. So no longer "publicly posted". He is posting someone's "how to" so people can violate consumer protections.

What got taken down was a Pastebin with Bambu's files, as Bambu's license doesn't allow for redistribution of their files. However the procedure to extract the private key is still publicy available, and is still up on places like Reddit.

Someone used these steps, found a private key, then remotely hacked into other's printers with a message. Leaving any part of the instructions on how to do that doesn't really fit the image of "spending the last decade protecting consumer rights" (your words). The ease or lack thereof is irrelevant in this case, if he is doing it for the reasons of "Consumer Rights".

You're conflating two different events: Months ago, Anycubic 3D Printers were hacked worldwide and a funny little message with a caterpillar was sent to all of them. This has not happened to a Bambu printer yet, but Bambu used this as justification for their "increased security".

"Honestly, your honor, I only gave him the key to a random house. It isn't my fault they figured out which house it was and robbed them. I was just trying to to prove that they were bad locks. Really, I am an advocate for the homeowner..."

Bambu committed a huge security gaff. Their entire security implementation with the Bambu Connect program was catostrophically flawed and was never secure. Modern crytopgraphy uses things called public and private keys. Private keys are never supposed to be distributed or shared, ever - hence "private". They're supposed to be generated locally. Bambu's solution distributed the private key with Bambu Connect, and they tried to hide the fact they did that by obfuscating Bambu Connect's code.

To keep using tortured analogies: Bambu put a combination lock (the new firmware) on every printer in the name of "security", but they were cheap (or ignorant?), so every printer and lock used the exact same combination. If you want to print something, you call up Bambu and they send someone ("Bambu Connect") to enter in the combination, then lock it back up when its done.

Rossman is pointing out that the unlock person ("Bambu Connect") is also super lazy and didn't bother remembering the combination by heart. They actually just scribbled the combination on the back of their hand in sharpie. They wrote the numbers backwards to try and hide the fact that it was the combination, but if you just take a second to look at it, you can see the combination clear as day. Bambu Connect is just out there, walking down the street, waving the combination around publicly.

But once again to do anything with the combination, you need access to that person's network. You need to be able to access that person's printer through the network. You need to understand the language the printer speaks. You need to understand the secret handshake you need to do before you can transmit the combination. Then once you've done all that, you need to have a deep understanding of what you can *do* with the printer. Anyone capable of doing all of that would have no problem extracting the private key from a program that does very little to hide the fact that it's carrying a private key it shouldn't have been in the first place.

 

[Cruzan80]

So which part do you disagree with for Bambu? The part where they thought it was necessary, the part where they are wanting to disable other open-source programs interacting with their equipment moving forward, the part where they want you to use their stuff only and connect to their servers if you are going to use cloud based stuff, the part where you think they are stealing your data, the part etc...? Just trying to figure out which part bothers you, to the point that you think it will end up as e-waste when they are no longer usable.

It really is coming across like you have an axe to grind against them.

 

[Dh3256]

Bambu committed a huge security gaff. Their entire security implementation with the Bambu Connect program was catostrophically flawed and was never secure. Modern crytopgraphy uses things called public and private keys. Private keys are never supposed to be distributed or shared, ever - hence "private". They're supposed to be generated locally. Bambu's solution distributed the private key with Bambu Connect, and they tried to hide the fact they did that by obfuscating Bambu Connect's code.

Setting aside misunderstanding of how private key encryption works, do you have any legitimate support for your statements, or is this just more fear mongering from those with a financial interest?

 

[Dh3256]

Update: Bambu Labs is already reneging on the update, and has stated that they will be reintroducing true "developer" LAN mode allowing direct connection to the printer again. They knew they fucked up, and are in serious damage-control mode now.

Again, do you have any support for that statement? Bambu Lab's notification, even with the revisions for clarification, doesn't seem to say anything like that and does not reflect any actual change in the update.

 

[colmal]

Again, do you have any support for that statement? Bambu Lab's notification, even with the revisions for clarification, doesn't seem to say anything like that and does not reflect any actual change in the update.

louis answers those questions really well.

 

[tak1313]

and now for something completely different...

the wife wanted a ball holder, me made ball holders.

happy wife, happy life!

Those balls look pretty big...

 

[Cc_windsurfer]

So, if you were buying a new printer today, say $500ish. Hobby use.

What would you buy?

Creality K1

 

[Citation]

So, if you were buying a new printer today, say $500ish. Hobby use.

What would you buy?

I think that's a hard question as it might depend on some factors. At that price point it's kind of a question about what compromises you are ok with. Happily, at that price point it's not like the compromised option is ****.

A few things to consider.
How big is the build volume? For what ever reason 220x220 has been the default build size. It's the one used by printers like the Ender 3 family and many prints on line will be scaled to fit on that size print bed. Bambu uses a slightly larger 256x256. The extra size may help in some cases and certainly isn't going to hurt as the machines are about the same size as the 220 machines (which typically have a 235x235mm plate. The next step up are the 300x300mm printers. More print area but physically larger. However, if size isn't a problem they seem to have few/no compromises vs the smaller sizes. Larger than that and you need to decide if they are appropriate for small prints or if the small prints are compromised by the larger build area.

Bed slinger vs Core XY. Slingers are generally cheaper but can still be fast and produce good prints. However, as the print gets larger you can have issues with parts deforming/failing because you are moving the part a lot as you print it. Bed slingers are almost always open vs enclosed. Core XY come in both open and closed. They move the print head in x and y while the part is moved vertically and rather slowly. Many Core XY printers are enclosed because it's relatively easy to add the enclosure. Some base models aren't but are otherwise similar to an enclosed model and in some cases enclosure kits are available. However, if you need an enclosed, get a factory one from the start (see below)

Enclosures are good for two reasons. First they help keep heat in when printing filaments that are heat sensitive (most stuff that isn't PLA). Second they can help control the fumes that may be released by filaments that aren't PLA. A factory enclosed printer is more likely to have air filtration and may have some type of active chamber temp control. Otherwise chamber heart comes from trapping the heat from the print bed.

Finally there is the multi material question. Bambu was first, others have it now as well. Even if you don't want to print in multicolor it can be good for things like auto switching rolls when you run out of filament and using a second material as a support.
So at $500 you can have 300x300 or enclosed or multi material or CoreXY or cash in your pocket. You might get more than one but you won't get all of them. If you are willing to brave used you might get more of them.

Personally, I've been very happy with my Adventure 5M. For about $60 you can print/buy an encloser kit which makes it decent for more advanced filaments. It's as fast as any of the prints under $500. However, at 220^3 it's one of the smallest build areas (if only because most printers do a bit more than 220 tall). With the encloser this printer can do more engineering filaments. The 5M Pro is factory enclosed with air filtration and chamber temp control. The 5X is multicolor but I haven't seen reviews yet. All support printing from USB or via the network through Orca Slicer.

The Bambu A1 + multi material unit is fast, prints nicely and has a solid color charger. The down side would be concernes regarding locked down software and being an open bed slinger. Still, might be the best option for PLA so long as you didn't mind the size (MMU sits next to the printer) and locked software.

I'm not sure if you can get a Creality K1 Max for your budget. They had a rocky start but seem sorted now. As for table space the K1p takes up basically no more space vs the BL A1 but it's a 300x300 enclosed Core XY printer. It's a great unit is single color is ok.

Not sure about Elegoo or Anycubic. They might be good but I would check some reviews.

[Made edits, corrected some swypeos]

 

[toolenthusiast]

or is this just more fear mongering from those with a financial interest?

Yup, for sure, only shills and bots could possibly be worried about digital rights issues. (For the record, DH3256 is the shill and I’m the bot.)

 

[Cruzan80]

I think that's a hard question as it might depend on some factors. At that price point it's kind of a question about what compromises you are ok with. Happily, at that price point it's not like the compromised option is ****.

A few things to consider.
How big is the build volume? For what ever reason 220x220 has been the default build size. It's the one used by printers like the Ender 3 family and many prints on line will be scaled to fit on that size print bed. Bambu uses a slightly larger 256x256. The extra size may help in some cases and certainly isn't going to hurt as the machines are about the same size as the 220 machines (which typically have a 235x235mm plate. The next step up are the 300x300mm printers. More print area but physically larger. However, of size isn't a problem they seem to have few/no compromises vs the smaller sizes. Later than that and you need to decide if they are appropriate for small prints vs just large prints.

Bed slinger vs Core XY. Slingers are generally cheaper but can still be fast and produce good prints. However, as the print gets larger you can have issues with parts deforming/failing because you are moving the part a lot as you print it. Bed slingers are almost always open vs enclosed. Core XY come in both open and closed. They move the print head in x and y while the part in moved vertically rather slowly. Many Core XY printers are enclosed because it's relatively easy to add the enclosure. Some base models aren't but ate otherwise similar to an enclosed model.

Enclosures are good for two reasons. First they help keep heat in when printing filaments that are heat sensitive (most stuff that isn't PLA). Second they can help control the fumes that may be released by filaments that aren't PLA.

Finally there is the multi material question. Bambu was first, others have it now as well. Even if you don't want to print in multicolor it can be good for things like auto switching rolls when you run out of filament and using a second material as a support.
So at $500 you can have 300x300 or enclosed or multi material or CoreXY or cash in your pocket. You might get more than one but you won't get all of them.

Personally, I've been very happy with my Adventure 5M. For about $60 you can print/buy an encloser kit which makes it decent for more advanced filaments. It's as fast as any of the prints under $500. However, at 220^3 it's one of the smallest build areas (if only because most printers do a bit more than 220 tall). With the enclosed this printer can really look at doing more engineering filaments. The 5M pro is enclosed with air filtration while the 5X is multicolor but I haven't seen reviews yet.

The Bambu A1+material unit is fast, prints nicely and has a solid color charger. The down side would be concernes regarding locked down software and being an open bed slinger. Still, might be the best option for PLA so long as you didn't mind the size (MMU sits next to the printer) and locked software.
I'm not sure if you can get a Creality K1 plus for your budget. They had a rocky start but seem sorted now. As for table space the K1p takes up basically no more space vs the BL A1 but it's a 300x300 enclosed Core XY printer. It's a great unit is single color is ok.

Not sure about Elegoo or Anycubic. They might be good but I would check some reviews.

This is a very nice and well explained write up of the differences. Please consider editing slightly where needed and posting to the Everything 3D thread, as well.

 

[Dh3256]

Yup, for sure, only shills and bots could possibly be worried about digital rights issues. (For the record, DH3256 is the shill and I’m the bot.)

I'm not a "shill" and security and digital rights issue is the reason for the update.

 

[toolenthusiast]

I'm not a "shill" and security and digital rights issue is the reason for the update.

I guess I should have used a /s tag. (I thought it was pretty obvious, since I called myself a bot!)

 

[Poolshark314]

I decided to start a separate thread for filament deals in case anyone is interested:

3D Filament Deal Thread

List deals on 3D filament here. Printers are probably also fine to list here, but most people seem focused on "reloading" I generally get PLA/PETG when I find it under $10/kg, assuming it isn't something special like glow in the dark or multi color

www.garagejournal.com

 

[PCMusicGuy]

At your price point, if you can get by with 245x245x240 mm dimensions, you may want to look at the Qidi Q1 Pro. I have had one for about 7 months now and I really like it.

 

[tak1313]

At your price point, if you can get by with 245x245x240 mm dimensions, you may want to look at the Qidi Q1 Pro. I have had one for about 7 months now and I really like it.

Reddit post by users of both (for the most part). Although some prefer the Bambu, seems like more prefer Qidi. Dont' forget to expand the comments that get hidden for brevity.

https://www.reddit.com/r/QIDI/comments/1fqddk3

 

[poppakap]

So what do people think of the Prusa Core One?

 

[Citation]

So what do people think of the Prusa Core One?

Expensive and likely really nice. A contractor I work with has a makes and the print output I've seen is always really nice. His previous make was the other that made me realize consumer fdm printers had moved beyond the 2014 MakerBots and their associated quality.

 

[wantedabiggergarage]

Has anyone printed anything and mixed filament types?

 

[redragoon]

So, if you were buying a new printer today, say $500ish. Hobby use.

What would you buy?

Honestly, a Creality K1C. I ordered one for work last year and it is worlds better than my 2 bedslingers at home after some tuning.
We couldn't use a Bambu here since we can't access it over the private IT network.
Prusa is really behind the curve and expensive for what you get. They excel at customer support, though.
My Sovol SV06 is a clone of the Mk3 for $200 and it has printed as good as any Prusa.

The K1C is on sale for $500 both at their store and B&H video. Prints reliably at 300 mm/s which is same as Bambu speed. Has all automated features for calibration and bed leveling. Additional cooling fans and enclosed chamber to keep print space at regular temperature. It even comes stock with a hardened nozzle for printing more professional filaments. We've used ours to get Nylon Carbon Fiber (PA6-CF) to print production prototype parts.

It is not as streamlined as the Bambu system, but has more features than the P1S.
Update firmwares, use the newest profiles and tune them following online videos.
Also replace their USB with a different one to avoid issues.

 

[redragoon]

Has anyone printed anything and mixed filament types?

There are several Youtube videos on this.
One method is to use 2 non-adhering filaments for support joining layers.
PETG and PLA do not stick to each other so you use them as a top support interface layer and then they pull right apart.

Another is using flexible filament like TPU inside rigid filaments to make flexible joints or mechanisms.

 

[loganb]

Has anyone printed anything and mixed filament types?

I will mix filament types for printing support structure, but that's it.

 

[F-22]

Used the Bambu X1 Carbon at work for a while now. It's fast and reliable but honestly like the design of my mk3 prusa at home more. It's simpler and just works. Had the extruder clog up 4 times with PLA on the bambu because I accidentally closed the enclosure door (it gets too hot inside). Never really had any issue like that with my prusa. I'm probably not the most demanding owner anyway...

 

[ArcReactorKC]

Used the Bambu X1 Carbon at work for a while now. It's fast and reliable but honestly like the design of my mk3 prusa at home more. It's simpler and just works. Had the extruder clog up 4 times with PLA on the bambu because I accidentally closed the enclosure door (it gets too hot inside). Never really had any issue like that with my prusa. I'm probably not the most demanding owner anyway...

On my X1C I am utilizing the MQTT data in home assistant to get temperatures and all that. So I have an automation that "if the print bed is heated >40c and the nozzle is also heated >170c" a cheap hobby servo with an arm props the door open about 2 inches. The servo is driven off of an ESP32 running esphome.

Also want to note, this kind of functionality is what will break with the bambu lockdown firmware (mine will be unaffected on aftermarket firmware) and there are tons of people out there doing things like this that are not going to work anymore. Well they might now that bambu is talking about a "Developer lan mode" or whatever they want to call it. But in the original case we were going to lose all MQTT functionality.

 

[gtae07]

Creality K1C

Just ordered one yesterday. My little Ender3 was good for what it was,
but it's enough trouble to use and not quite reliable enough that I don't use it as much as I could. Plus, being basically limited to PLA and PETG limited me in what I could do with it.

Hopefully I'll be able to make better use of this one.

 

[olds70supreme]

I've had a Qidi Q1 Pro for a couple months and it was plug-and-play w/ no issues so far. Right around the $500 price point, a bit less I believe if you catch a sale. This is my first 3d printer and I would recommend to similar new users based on my experience.