The Concrete Underground
- Thread starter ConCretin
- Start date
HOTFR8
Banned
Re: The Concrete Underground Glossary
We could close it and sticky it if that helped. Although you could not add to to it if it was closed.
We could close it and sticky it if that helped. Although you could not add to to it if it was closed.
Drew_flux
Well-known member
Re: The Concrete Underground Glossary
Oh so now you post this, Here was me reading your thread and googling the terms in a new tab.
Oh so now you post this, Here was me reading your thread and googling the terms in a new tab.
Justanoldguy
Well-known member
Re: The Concrete Underground Glossary
OK understood.
Just that being half way across the planet from you guys,
I find just about every term used by Americans is foreign.
I am forever trying to interprete what is being meant.
I gave up on correcting people on cement vs concrete a long time ago.
I'm sure others have done a much better job than I have defining concrete terminology - my versions are specific to this project. User beware. .
OK understood.
Just that being half way across the planet from you guys,
I find just about every term used by Americans is foreign.
I am forever trying to interprete what is being meant.
Thedoc14
Well-known member
Re: The Concrete Underground Glossary
:
Sorry anything out of a Kiwi mouth is damn hard to understand.
Sorry left the door wide open on that one..
:
Just that being half way across the planet from you guys,
I find just about every term used by Americans is foreign.
I am forever trying to interprete what is being meant.
Sorry anything out of a Kiwi mouth is damn hard to understand.
Sorry left the door wide open on that one..
Justanoldguy
Well-known member
Re: The Concrete Underground Glossary
Yep. Ya got Me ...
:
Sorry anything out of a Kiwi mouth is damn hard to understand.
Sorry left the door wide open on that one..
Yep. Ya got Me ...
Ace Sprocket
Member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2012
- Messages
- 19
Re: The Concrete Underground Glossary
Awesome !! Thanks for posting.
Awesome !! Thanks for posting.
After a disappointing day yesterday, we had a pretty good rebound today. We got all the high hats on and the bars in the LiteDeck beams
You can start to see how the 24' concrete beam will cantilever off both sides of the firplace structure and support the roof.
We're sliding rigid insulation under the angles that support the edge beam to maximize the thermal break under the second floor cantilever. I'll add another 1 1/2" of rigid to the bottom later on.
Here's a wider angle of the same area;
Here you can see the transverse beam and the 'buck' underneath that will anchor the top of the first floor glass.
This is the framing for the passage that gets you across the top of the stairs to the roof deck.
Here's the opposite side, which will form the landing at the top of the stairs. The view will be worth the climb, don't ya think?
I took this pic just because it showed how the basic LiteDeck panels and high hats go together
This corner of the roof has given me fits. It cantilevers in two directions about 9'. My engineer has run the numbers but it still makes me nervous. We're installing 3, #6 bars in the top of both roof beams.
You may have noticed that I said that the reinforcing in these beams is in the top whereas most of what we've done to date the bars are in the bottom. This is because these beams are cantilevered and as such, the top of the beam is in tension. Most of the beams we've built to date have spanned between supports, which puts the bottom of the beam in tension. Cool, huh?
Finally, here's a shot that sums up what it's like to live in the Northeast. Just when you think spring has sprung, you get a cold spell.
C'mon spring!!
You can start to see how the 24' concrete beam will cantilever off both sides of the firplace structure and support the roof.
We're sliding rigid insulation under the angles that support the edge beam to maximize the thermal break under the second floor cantilever. I'll add another 1 1/2" of rigid to the bottom later on.
Here's a wider angle of the same area;
Here you can see the transverse beam and the 'buck' underneath that will anchor the top of the first floor glass.
This is the framing for the passage that gets you across the top of the stairs to the roof deck.
Here's the opposite side, which will form the landing at the top of the stairs. The view will be worth the climb, don't ya think?
I took this pic just because it showed how the basic LiteDeck panels and high hats go together
This corner of the roof has given me fits. It cantilevers in two directions about 9'. My engineer has run the numbers but it still makes me nervous. We're installing 3, #6 bars in the top of both roof beams.
You may have noticed that I said that the reinforcing in these beams is in the top whereas most of what we've done to date the bars are in the bottom. This is because these beams are cantilevered and as such, the top of the beam is in tension. Most of the beams we've built to date have spanned between supports, which puts the bottom of the beam in tension. Cool, huh?
Finally, here's a shot that sums up what it's like to live in the Northeast. Just when you think spring has sprung, you get a cold spell.
C'mon spring!!
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Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
"My engineer has run the numbers but it still makes me nervous."
With a 9' cantilever, I'd be nervous too; hell, I'd be living there 6 months and still wearing a hard hat inside! lol
With a 9' cantilever, I'd be nervous too; hell, I'd be living there 6 months and still wearing a hard hat inside! lol
Re: The Concrete Underground Glossary
I hope my response didn't come across as rude justanoldguy. I figure most people on here know the difference between cement and concrete but use the term cement generically. You always have a good take on things.
OK understood.
Just that being half way across the planet from you guys,
I find just about every term used by Americans is foreign.
I am forever trying to interprete what is being meant.
I hope my response didn't come across as rude justanoldguy. I figure most people on here know the difference between cement and concrete but use the term cement generically. You always have a good take on things.
SiGmA_X
Well-known member
Completely makes sense regarding the bar in the top of the cantilever beam. I really wonder how the heating consumption will be in what appear to be pretty cold winters with all that awesome glass. Well worth it, of course, but I'm curious.
Thanks for the updates!
Thanks for the updates!
Leyenda30
Active member
It appears we have an anniversary approaching. Congratulations on all the progress.
JP
JP
Me too. Considering about half the walls in the house are glass and therefor the equivalent of about R-1, I'm thinkin the heating consumption will be on par with small city. Hopefully, the view is worth it.
Very observant grasshopper. Comin up on a year since we started.
I'm not sure a hardhat is going to be all that helpful if the engineer is wrong. Suddenly I have this image in my head of Wile E Coyote holding a little parasol as the anvil plummets towards him.
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Press_Corpse
Well-known member
I am one of the many that have subscribed and kept track with updates. I spent a solid year before I decided to join this forum. I feel like in order to put all my ideas that I have gathered from all these builds that I kept a mental note of I would need to win the lottery Multiple times and have a theme park patch of land to build on.
It goes without saying on how phenomenal this is turning out. The architect and yourself have gone through every detail. Not even on just outlets and plumbing, but placement and what will be seen as a guest would walk up and into your home. I sincerely hope that I can at the very least drive by in my future to see this place with my own eyes. It's in the 50s here by Chicago. I hope the crew enjoy this warmer weather and I bid you well on the remainder of your build. I look forward to seeing more progress. LOVE the pics!
Chris
It goes without saying on how phenomenal this is turning out. The architect and yourself have gone through every detail. Not even on just outlets and plumbing, but placement and what will be seen as a guest would walk up and into your home. I sincerely hope that I can at the very least drive by in my future to see this place with my own eyes. It's in the 50s here by Chicago. I hope the crew enjoy this warmer weather and I bid you well on the remainder of your build. I look forward to seeing more progress. LOVE the pics!
Chris
C'mon spring!!
I'm guessing that is the piece of Litedeck that had a foot go through it ?
Cannonball55
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2011
- Messages
- 56
ive been lurking here for a while and after reading all 69 pages yesterday i thought i would chime in and tell you that it was worth every minute of it. this is a very inspirational build and your knowledge of the work is impressive to say the least. thank you for sharing this with us, and i look forward to seeing the completion of it.
Forgot the damn camera yesterday but will get some pics today of the final details. Concrete is set for 7 am tomorrow morning.
HCTR, I somehow missed the video and pictures the first time. That is going to be a fantastic building. I love'd the 3D walk thru. I kept trying to guess what was built using concrete.
Thanks very much Chris. It has been very cold and windy up here for the time of year. It seemed even worse because we'd started to adjust to warmer weather. We seem to be through it now - 50 forecast for today.
You would be correct Nutts - though it was the icicles I was going for
HCTR, I somehow missed the video and pictures the first time. That is going to be a fantastic building. I love'd the 3D walk thru. I kept trying to guess what was built using concrete.
It's in the 50s here by Chicago. I hope the crew enjoy this warmer weather and I bid you well on the remainder of your build. I look forward to seeing more progress. LOVE the pics!
Chris
Thanks very much Chris. It has been very cold and windy up here for the time of year. It seemed even worse because we'd started to adjust to warmer weather. We seem to be through it now - 50 forecast for today.
You would be correct Nutts - though it was the icicles I was going for
Buzz Lightyear
Well-known member
I'm looking forward to the next pour and the following reveal.
randomtwinkie
Well-known member
What is the plan for the finish on the ceilings?
We continue to plug along. My geothermal contractor had a crew on site today to install radiant tubing in preparation for tomorrow's LiteDeck placement.
The tubing runs into the chase behind the U shaped wall. This chase provides a clear path from the roof to the basement to run plumbing, radiant, ductwork, etc.
This is the cantilevered corner of the roof. It is unsupported from the beam to the right and the fireplace wall to the left;
Here's where the chimney will sit. We drilled and expoxied a bunch of rebar into the fireplace structure below
The sleeves you see above are 10" PVC couplers. My plan is to run two 10" PVC pipes through the CIP chimney to allow me to run two 8" vents - one for the gas fireplace the other for an exhaust vent for the gas grill.
Here's a little section of cantilevered slab at the top of the stairs to the second floor. I plasma cut several holes the the beam to allow #5 bars to pass through and support the cantilever.
Here's the area where the stairs pass behind the chase. There is a lot going on in a small area.
The block out attached to the edge form will create a shelf to allow the glass wall to sit two inches lower than the floor. The rectangular boxes are for heating/cooling registers.
Here is the plumbing rough in for the second floor bathroom.
The plan is to slope the slab to the shower drain so we don't need a curb or and pan. I wrapped a little foam around the shower drain to keep concrete out of the weep holes.
So, that's where we're at. Concrete arrives at 7:00 am tomorrow.
The tubing runs into the chase behind the U shaped wall. This chase provides a clear path from the roof to the basement to run plumbing, radiant, ductwork, etc.
This is the cantilevered corner of the roof. It is unsupported from the beam to the right and the fireplace wall to the left;
Here's where the chimney will sit. We drilled and expoxied a bunch of rebar into the fireplace structure below
The sleeves you see above are 10" PVC couplers. My plan is to run two 10" PVC pipes through the CIP chimney to allow me to run two 8" vents - one for the gas fireplace the other for an exhaust vent for the gas grill.
Here's a little section of cantilevered slab at the top of the stairs to the second floor. I plasma cut several holes the the beam to allow #5 bars to pass through and support the cantilever.
Here's the area where the stairs pass behind the chase. There is a lot going on in a small area.
The block out attached to the edge form will create a shelf to allow the glass wall to sit two inches lower than the floor. The rectangular boxes are for heating/cooling registers.
Here is the plumbing rough in for the second floor bathroom.
The plan is to slope the slab to the shower drain so we don't need a curb or and pan. I wrapped a little foam around the shower drain to keep concrete out of the weep holes.
So, that's where we're at. Concrete arrives at 7:00 am tomorrow.
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gordyy
Well-known member
that is a lot going on in a small area
looking good
One of the most interesting builds
looking good
One of the most interesting builds
Cemoto
Well-known member
This is the cantilevered corner of the roof that has me so concerned;
That looks like a shitload of steel, don't forget the strength of the concrete.
I think you will be fine.
Regards,
You have an insanely great project!
I´m not Samuli but i live in same country. Here is my underground Garage/Shop http://www.kotiverstas.com/keskustelu/index.php?topic=7722.0 forum language is Finnish, but there are a lot of pictures.
You have an insanely great project!
I´m not Samuli but i live in same country. Here is my underground Garage/Shop http://www.kotiverstas.com/keskustelu/index.php?topic=7722.0 forum language is Finnish, but there are a lot of pictures.
That was weird. There's a total parallel universe Garage Journal in Finnish! My head is spinning from the awesomeness - there's some Jack Olsen, OldCarGuy, ConcreteUnderground, Restored 1930's, etc. influence/similarity in that building. He's correct in the language difficulty but the pictures are really good. That dude's got sisu!
With some final adjustments to our shoring, we were ready to start placing the second floor slab.
The concrete showed up on time and the placement went pretty flawlessly
You've seen this operation before and will again - four more times to be exact
The stairwell/chase block out made a convenient place to do hit the edges
I set a couple rods to denote the limits of the shower so the guys knew where to start the slopes. We pulled them out once they had it
The guys decided to hand screed this floor to get it as flat as possible because it's finished space.
It wasn't long before we had the machine on it. We experienced a little 'crusting', which caused us to alter our operation a bit.
Crusting occurs when the surface sets up quicker that the underlying concrete, usually due to wind and/or sun. The surface is ready but can't support the weight of the finisher without cracking.
When this occurs, the best option is to spray on an evaporation retarder such as Confilm, which will slow down the surface set and give the concrete underneath time to catch up. Since we didn't have any, we just waited as long as we could and tried to keep our weight off the softer areas. It wasn't a major issue and the slab looks great - a good finisher can overcome most of these issues.
This is the stairwell/chase opening. The curb to the right will support the ICF wall that forms the end of the second floor.
This is the formwork for the curb wall that supports the slab edge from the low roof we placed last week.
If you want straight walls, every form must be straightened after concrete is placed in it. You won't see a form on our jobs without a string run along it. Just set the string to a consistent offset and measure ever couple feet and adjust as necessary.
If you look at the second floor on the model, you can see it is 'laterally challenged'. Both of the long sides are glass. Since glass makes a lousy shear wall, you could probably push the whole thing over. From a seismic standpoint, the 100,000 lb concrete roof doesn't help.
To provide lateral stability, we added a steel rod cross brace just inside the glazing in the leftmost bay on the front. We also replaced the glass in the opposite bay with an ICF wall. The engineer says this is adequate but I've added additional support wherever I can.
The threaded rods we welded to the beams will get nuts and washers and will help hold the ICF end walls down and resist overturning. I've also added piers on each corner with extra rods. here you can see where a rod comes up in the middle of a rebar pier.
After I let everybody go for the weekend, I hung around and covered the slab with hydracure. Since it was supposed to drop below freezing, I also covered it with insulated blankets.
The threaded rods you can see in the foreground will anchor the other ICF end wall.
The hardest part was lugging a couple hundred pounds of rebar up the ladder to hold the damn blankets down in the wind. They wouldn't do me any good hanging from the trees.
Unfortunately, I've got one of those good news/bad news things. The good news is that my business is picking up with our nice early spring. The bad news is I'm losing most of my crew to paying work.
I'm going to keep three guys going on the ICFs and work the structural steel and LiteDeck myself with whatever help I can scrounge up. I should be able to get some guys back shortly but my schedule will suffer. ****!
The concrete showed up on time and the placement went pretty flawlessly
You've seen this operation before and will again - four more times to be exact
The stairwell/chase block out made a convenient place to do hit the edges
I set a couple rods to denote the limits of the shower so the guys knew where to start the slopes. We pulled them out once they had it
The guys decided to hand screed this floor to get it as flat as possible because it's finished space.
It wasn't long before we had the machine on it. We experienced a little 'crusting', which caused us to alter our operation a bit.
Crusting occurs when the surface sets up quicker that the underlying concrete, usually due to wind and/or sun. The surface is ready but can't support the weight of the finisher without cracking.
When this occurs, the best option is to spray on an evaporation retarder such as Confilm, which will slow down the surface set and give the concrete underneath time to catch up. Since we didn't have any, we just waited as long as we could and tried to keep our weight off the softer areas. It wasn't a major issue and the slab looks great - a good finisher can overcome most of these issues.
This is the stairwell/chase opening. The curb to the right will support the ICF wall that forms the end of the second floor.
This is the formwork for the curb wall that supports the slab edge from the low roof we placed last week.
If you want straight walls, every form must be straightened after concrete is placed in it. You won't see a form on our jobs without a string run along it. Just set the string to a consistent offset and measure ever couple feet and adjust as necessary.
If you look at the second floor on the model, you can see it is 'laterally challenged'. Both of the long sides are glass. Since glass makes a lousy shear wall, you could probably push the whole thing over. From a seismic standpoint, the 100,000 lb concrete roof doesn't help.
To provide lateral stability, we added a steel rod cross brace just inside the glazing in the leftmost bay on the front. We also replaced the glass in the opposite bay with an ICF wall. The engineer says this is adequate but I've added additional support wherever I can.
The threaded rods we welded to the beams will get nuts and washers and will help hold the ICF end walls down and resist overturning. I've also added piers on each corner with extra rods. here you can see where a rod comes up in the middle of a rebar pier.
After I let everybody go for the weekend, I hung around and covered the slab with hydracure. Since it was supposed to drop below freezing, I also covered it with insulated blankets.
The threaded rods you can see in the foreground will anchor the other ICF end wall.
The hardest part was lugging a couple hundred pounds of rebar up the ladder to hold the damn blankets down in the wind. They wouldn't do me any good hanging from the trees.
Unfortunately, I've got one of those good news/bad news things. The good news is that my business is picking up with our nice early spring. The bad news is I'm losing most of my crew to paying work.
I'm going to keep three guys going on the ICFs and work the structural steel and LiteDeck myself with whatever help I can scrounge up. I should be able to get some guys back shortly but my schedule will suffer. ****!
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Thedoc14
Well-known member
Cant wait to see that area stripped back and the floating slab just hanging there... 
We'll find out in about a week. I've got a great engineer and I know we built it correctly so I'm really not that worried.
I couldn't understand a word but the photos are very cool. Thanks for posting.
Cant wait to see that area stripped back and the floating slab just hanging there...
Hopefully.
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indeed! that's the only Finnish word that I remember from my Finland trip a few weeks ago. And Google translate doesn't have the right translation!
Yes the famous SISU
Hard to explain but mayby it´s something like this Thanks for the compliments! Let's continue the original topic.
Harry
Well, I was going to leave them in place. I planned to insert 10" PVC pipe into the couplers and use them as stay-place-forms when I form up the concrete chimney. I guess I need to think this through.
According to the Plastic Pipe and Fittings Association, PVC pipe is combustible; however, once the heat source is removed it will cease burning. PVC's melting point is 390 degrees Fahrenheit, and its flash ignition point is 735 degrees Fahrenheit.
The exhaust vent for the gas grill isn't an issue, right? The fireplace will be a direct vent with a coaxial pipe that brings fresh air in through the outside channel. I figured a 1" air space would be OK. I'll have to call my fireplace installer and see if I'm screwing up.
Thanks for the heads up.
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If I was closer, I'd come over and help you out on my days off, I'd be up for some learning and a chance to gain some experience.
Surely hope I didn't just send you on a wild goose chase. I just know there are specific types of plastics that are prohibited in plenum spaces in a commercial building.. Due to toxic off-gassing in a fire.
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If I was closer, I'd come over and help you out on my days off, I'd be up for some learning and a chance to gain some experience.
No one I'd rather have Nutts. I appreciate the thought.
I'd much rather look into it now than get it built and find out I have a problem. Thanks again.
JbTech
Well-known member
It's been years since I've worked with concrete (residential poured walls), but this thread is amazing!
Can't wait to see this project continue!
Great imagination and problem solving, kudos to you and your crew.
Can't wait to see this project continue!
Great imagination and problem solving, kudos to you and your crew.
jimmie jam
Well-known member
This thread is an unbelieveable classroom! What a concept and design problem. Your mind has to be spinning when trying to keep up with all the crazy details that must be perfect. I'm lovin it!!!
So this is my first post on this thread, having discovered it late yesterday afternoon.
And after approximately 5 hours, made it through the entire thread...
When I cam to the last post of the thread, was strangely....sad.
Can't wait as you continue the build on this epic project. Thanks so much for all I've learned.
And after approximately 5 hours, made it through the entire thread...
When I cam to the last post of the thread, was strangely....sad.
Can't wait as you continue the build on this epic project. Thanks so much for all I've learned.