Boosted1
Well-known member
Looking forward to updates. Looks like it will be a very interesting build.
The Concrete Underground
- Thread starter ConCretin
- Start date
51rider
Well-known member
Been subscribed to this since post #1.
We have geothermal heat for one of our buildings at work & it fails to perform spectacularly
On the other hand, my parents have just had a couple of air source heat pumps installed & I am very impressed.
If you do decide to go go with the geothemal, then at least spend a few$$ having the design independently assessed, it could save you years of stress & heartache if it can be proved it will or won't work. Your build will not have the option of redoing it at a later date.
I am not sure of the state of play on your side of the pond but inverter controlled heating pumps seem to be all the rage over here. In theory they offer loads of control and energy savings as a result but all that is lost when just one fails & fail they do. From my experiences, stay well clear of anyone trying to sell you pumps with the inverter mounted on top of the pump motor, -the heat from the motor will destroy the inverter in rapid time. The inverter must be installed remotely from the pump & my personal view is that you need to install a/c in the plant room to ensure that they never get warm enough to start cooking the electronic components.
We have geothermal heat for one of our buildings at work & it fails to perform spectacularly
On the other hand, my parents have just had a couple of air source heat pumps installed & I am very impressed.If you do decide to go go with the geothemal, then at least spend a few$$ having the design independently assessed, it could save you years of stress & heartache if it can be proved it will or won't work. Your build will not have the option of redoing it at a later date.
I am not sure of the state of play on your side of the pond but inverter controlled heating pumps seem to be all the rage over here. In theory they offer loads of control and energy savings as a result but all that is lost when just one fails & fail they do. From my experiences, stay well clear of anyone trying to sell you pumps with the inverter mounted on top of the pump motor, -the heat from the motor will destroy the inverter in rapid time. The inverter must be installed remotely from the pump & my personal view is that you need to install a/c in the plant room to ensure that they never get warm enough to start cooking the electronic components.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Interesting ! I don't know if inverter controlled heat pumps are common around here or not. for a forced air system, I can see where an inverter controlled pump and inverter controlled fan could deliver "comfortable" heat especially on cool (5-15C) days.
It might not be an issue for in floor radiant heat. The mas of the slab will only absorb/release heat so fast.
Thanks for the information 51Rider. We got through the first challenge to a successful geothermal installation, which is the wells. We drilled two and got an excess of water from each - in fact, it's still running out the top.
We were very fortunate in that both wells hit the same aquifer. We can pump out of one and back into the other. I've basically got my own multi-thousand gallon holding tank of 50 degree water.
My geothermal contractor has hundreds of installations under his belt and is highly regarded. I'm not sure I can find anyone with more experience to verify his design but I'll give it some serious thought.
It's a big investment up front but I'm glad we're doing it.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
So is the heat exchange done inside the house (instead of pumping the working fluid out to the pipe) ?
Yes. It's an open loop system where water is pumped out the ground, through heat pumps located in the basement and then back into the ground.
Open loop systems typically pump to and from multiple wells and require you to bleed off up to 30 percent of the water to let new water into the well.
Last edited:
flybefree
Well-known member
Great project, subscribed, can't wait to see it come "alive"!
Shaun
Shaun
Thedoc14
Well-known member
It won’t have a single stick of wood in it and will look something like this:
I like that you have a specific golf Club Cupboard, where is the one for the inlaws. lol..
Nick.
I like that you have a specific golf Club Cupboard, where is the one for the inlaws. lol..
Nick.
Pictures, we need more pictures. 
Falcon67
Well-known member
Very nice - going to be a lot of info shared on this thread. Thank you for taking the time to share the details.
jimmie jam
Well-known member
WOW! i'm lovin this build. LL, remember it only costs about twice as much to go first class and quality does not cost more....it lasts longer. I'm excited for you.
J.J.
J.J.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Ahhh !!! Learn something new everyday !
Today was a beautiful spring day in Maine. We took advantage of a newly issued permit a favorable forecast to start on the concrete stairs that will take us down to the river and anchor the dock.
We are constructing three elevated concrete landings. They will be supported by 24" square piers bearing on large buried spread footings. Elevated concrete stairs will span between landings.
We started by hand digging the lowest landing, which we can't reach with the excavator.
We're digging down behind a row of existing boulders and will place a 8' x 4' x 2' footing that is pinned into the rocks, making use of their mass to help hold everything in place. I figure the whole thing will weigh over 15,000 pounds when complete. That should be hard to move.
We shoveled the spoils into a scale pan and hauled them to the surface using our rock and stump lugger. We'll hopefully dig the other two footings and place all three tomorrow.
Meanwhile, another crew was installing a catch basin and culvert to pick up surface run off and get it across the driveway. We tied the footing drain into the catch basin and left a wye to connect in the drain I'll install on top of the footing.
We also started wall forming for the garage. The walls are 11' tall. I'll get some pics of that operation tomorrow.
We are constructing three elevated concrete landings. They will be supported by 24" square piers bearing on large buried spread footings. Elevated concrete stairs will span between landings.
We started by hand digging the lowest landing, which we can't reach with the excavator.
We're digging down behind a row of existing boulders and will place a 8' x 4' x 2' footing that is pinned into the rocks, making use of their mass to help hold everything in place. I figure the whole thing will weigh over 15,000 pounds when complete. That should be hard to move.
We shoveled the spoils into a scale pan and hauled them to the surface using our rock and stump lugger. We'll hopefully dig the other two footings and place all three tomorrow.
Meanwhile, another crew was installing a catch basin and culvert to pick up surface run off and get it across the driveway. We tied the footing drain into the catch basin and left a wye to connect in the drain I'll install on top of the footing.
We also started wall forming for the garage. The walls are 11' tall. I'll get some pics of that operation tomorrow.
fergus
Well-known member
Dude...freaking industrial quality build going on over here! Sorta feels like you're building your own city! I'll look forward to the rest of your progress. 
AZBarracuda
Member
Wet digging??? There's water in the ground??? A totally foreign concept to me here in the desert foothills west of Phoenix AZ. We have to ADD water to the pit in order to get a backhoe past the calcium/caliche layer 3' down.
Pictures, we need more pictures.
Tryin to keep the content interesting but I'll try to err on the side of more photos, not less. Seems like most of my pics are mundane. Feel free to inquire if your curious about anything in particular
I'm with you. I'm only doing this once. It's the last house I'll build and I want to do it right.
Dude...freaking industrial quality build going on over here! Sorta feels like you're building your own city! I'll look forward to the rest of your progress.
Seems that way doesn't it? I've been building big stuff for so long I've apparently lost all perspective.
I've got 25 gallons a minute coming out of a footing drain. Most people would be happy to have a well that produced that much water. Too much of anything is a bad thing.
Thanks to all for your interest and comments
chrommagman
Well-known member
Seems like this is going to killer
Subscribed
Subscribed
Still here and reading the updates.
Seriouly, 25 gals/min coming out of the footer tile ? I knew you mentioned alot of water but damn, that's ALOT of water.
Seriouly, 25 gals/min coming out of the footer tile ? I knew you mentioned alot of water but damn, that's ALOT of water.
KPSquared
Well-known member
That's what I was thinking. . .my well is nowhere close to that. Kudos for even knowing how to deal with that.
Thedoc14
Well-known member
You are such an incline and above lake level,, where the hell is all that water coming from??
Made good progress on the first wall placement, which will become the back wall of the garage and work shop. You can see the step in the wall that accommodates the half bath and compressor closet. We stood the back face yesterday and started on the reinforcing today.
By the end of the day we had the forms closed. The wall is eleven feet at its highest. The structural concrete floor will rest directly on the foundation at this level. As the foundations steps down, ICF walls will span the difference.
We'll install beam pockets, drops, etc tomorrow morning and place concrete by the end of the day. After one additional placement, I can proceed with the spray on waterproofing, drainage board and backfill. Will be glad to get out of that hill.
Heres a view of the site as it has developed. The excavator is digging the front wall of the garage and the retaining wall you can just see on the right of the model. You'll see what the conveyor is doing below.
I know its not really garage related but I thought you might get kick out of my continuing concrete staircase / dock project. We hand dug the first landing but were able to dig the upper two with the excavator.
We got all three formed up and used our trusty conveyor truck to get the concrete down the 30 degree slope.
Here we're placing the bottom footing, which is pinned to some big existing boulders, which will look great and hide the concrete.
I'm hoping to get the 2x2 piers placed tomorrow and possibly the elevated landings by Friday. We'll tackle the two stairs sections next week. I need to button this project up before I can start excavating the house basement.
By the end of the day we had the forms closed. The wall is eleven feet at its highest. The structural concrete floor will rest directly on the foundation at this level. As the foundations steps down, ICF walls will span the difference.
We'll install beam pockets, drops, etc tomorrow morning and place concrete by the end of the day. After one additional placement, I can proceed with the spray on waterproofing, drainage board and backfill. Will be glad to get out of that hill.
Heres a view of the site as it has developed. The excavator is digging the front wall of the garage and the retaining wall you can just see on the right of the model. You'll see what the conveyor is doing below.
I know its not really garage related but I thought you might get kick out of my continuing concrete staircase / dock project. We hand dug the first landing but were able to dig the upper two with the excavator.
We got all three formed up and used our trusty conveyor truck to get the concrete down the 30 degree slope.
Here we're placing the bottom footing, which is pinned to some big existing boulders, which will look great and hide the concrete.
I'm hoping to get the 2x2 piers placed tomorrow and possibly the elevated landings by Friday. We'll tackle the two stairs sections next week. I need to button this project up before I can start excavating the house basement.
Last edited:
We got the first wall placement today. You can see the excavation for the front wall of the garage. Our conveyor truck was in for service so we rented a pump truck.
This shows one of the concrete trucks leaving the site up the access road. Gives you a sense of how steep the land is.
Should be ready for more footings tomorrow. This footing is for the end wall of the garage/shop structure and a little retaining wall to bring the grade down to finish.
Also kept working on my stairway/dock project. We placed the footings yesterday but decided to drill and epoxy the dowels to simplify layout. We installed 8, #6 bars per pier drilled 12" into the concrete and boulders.
After the dowels went in we formed up the piers and placed them.
Here's what they look like from below.
The bottom landing will be 4x8 to provide an offset for removable wood stairs to the 'beach'. The other two landings will be 4x4. All will be 12" thick.
The top run of concrete stairs will cast on earth, the second set will be elevated several feet above grade.
This shows one of the concrete trucks leaving the site up the access road. Gives you a sense of how steep the land is.
Should be ready for more footings tomorrow. This footing is for the end wall of the garage/shop structure and a little retaining wall to bring the grade down to finish.
Also kept working on my stairway/dock project. We placed the footings yesterday but decided to drill and epoxy the dowels to simplify layout. We installed 8, #6 bars per pier drilled 12" into the concrete and boulders.
After the dowels went in we formed up the piers and placed them.
Here's what they look like from below.
The bottom landing will be 4x8 to provide an offset for removable wood stairs to the 'beach'. The other two landings will be 4x4. All will be 12" thick.
The top run of concrete stairs will cast on earth, the second set will be elevated several feet above grade.
Last edited:
I'd love to just sit up on the hill overlooking the site and just watch.
Hottrod
Well-known member
Just awesome at every level! The site, the architecture, the construction methods.... absolutely, positively, definitely SUBSCRIBED!
______________________________
My build-in-progress: http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120725
______________________________
My build-in-progress: http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120725
abstamaria
Well-known member
What an incredible project! A spectacular location and such great plans. You are a fortunate man, LLWillysfan.
Andy
Andy
Last edited:
paredown
Well-known member
Great thread, great design, great location, great crew, nice toys.
Man, I'd love to have that crew show up here and get a few projects knocked out!
Geothermal seems like a natural, and great that you have a reliable water source. Around here (Rockland County, NY) the big expense is the well-drilling (rocks!). Neighbors here have their whole house on a closed loop system, and they are paying something insane like $12/mo for electricity to circulate, and the owner's dream is to get a solar array installed so even that part will be "free".
Man, I'd love to have that crew show up here and get a few projects knocked out!
Geothermal seems like a natural, and great that you have a reliable water source. Around here (Rockland County, NY) the big expense is the well-drilling (rocks!). Neighbors here have their whole house on a closed loop system, and they are paying something insane like $12/mo for electricity to circulate, and the owner's dream is to get a solar array installed so even that part will be "free".
Thedoc14
Well-known member
Are you using a single layer of 16Ybar at 8" centers for the walls or double layer of rio?
We laid a basement up like that, but had to use 2 layers of 12y bar at 200mm centers. Sorry for metric, but that's what we use Downunder. Could not get behind the walls due to neighbours property so we used Zypex in the concrete and hung a membrane down the wall. With poly sheet and ag pipe in the trench.before forming up the wall.
You seem to be moving along with some good speed now.
We laid a basement up like that, but had to use 2 layers of 12y bar at 200mm centers. Sorry for metric, but that's what we use Downunder. Could not get behind the walls due to neighbours property so we used Zypex in the concrete and hung a membrane down the wall. With poly sheet and ag pipe in the trench.before forming up the wall.
You seem to be moving along with some good speed now.
We placed the remaining footing for the garage/shop today. Normally we wouldn't 'wet stick' dowels on our industrial projects but it will be fine here.
The top of footing is 12" below slab elevation where we are built into the hill but drops down to provide 4'-6" of frost cover across the other two sides.
We finished the day by getting a start on stripping yesterday's wall placement.
The guys working on the dock stairs stripped the pier forms and started work on the elevated concrete landings or 'toad stools', as they've taken to calling them. You might note that we're using the same wall forms for the shoring that we used for the piers. No need to lug them back up the hill and something different back down.
They got the shoring up and started installing the rebar, which is over designed by a factor of at least five.
The electrician is coming tomorrow to rough-in the lighting for the stairs, dock and flagpole (you gotta have a flag pole, right?) so we can get them placed before the weekend.
I was curious what all the activity looked like to the neighbors so I went home via the opposite bank and shot a couple of long range shots. They probably think we're crazy.
I hope you guys don't mind the daily updates and picture overload. I think this process will be a lot easier if I establish a regular schedule and stick to it.
The top of footing is 12" below slab elevation where we are built into the hill but drops down to provide 4'-6" of frost cover across the other two sides.
We finished the day by getting a start on stripping yesterday's wall placement.
The guys working on the dock stairs stripped the pier forms and started work on the elevated concrete landings or 'toad stools', as they've taken to calling them. You might note that we're using the same wall forms for the shoring that we used for the piers. No need to lug them back up the hill and something different back down.
They got the shoring up and started installing the rebar, which is over designed by a factor of at least five.
The electrician is coming tomorrow to rough-in the lighting for the stairs, dock and flagpole (you gotta have a flag pole, right?) so we can get them placed before the weekend.
I was curious what all the activity looked like to the neighbors so I went home via the opposite bank and shot a couple of long range shots. They probably think we're crazy.
I hope you guys don't mind the daily updates and picture overload. I think this process will be a lot easier if I establish a regular schedule and stick to it.
Last edited:
Thanks Paredown. I'm lucky to have some great guys helping me out.
We got lucky on the well. It could have cost in excess of $35k to get the water we needed but it came in under $10k and we've got more water than we can use.
In our parlance, the retaining wall is reinforced with #5 bars at 8" on center each way.
Sounds like you had a pretty challenging project there Thedoc14. Come on over and give us a hand.
This is awesome.
As a concrete/masonry contractor, I really have to tip my hat to you, this project is impressive fro a residential home...............
My forming experience is limited to Advanced/Duraforms, and I don't have any previous exp. with Symon's ply/steel forms, so I have a question: Don't they require ties in them right away when you buckle them together? The reason I ask is because in the one pic of the back garage/retaining wall, you formed the entire outside, then tied the grid, w/o any of the forms inside. Do you send the ties in from the outside and feed them through for every form? I know we can do this with the Advanced, but it's a super PITA.......
Carry on, and keep posting pics of the superb build...........
My forming experience is limited to Advanced/Duraforms, and I don't have any previous exp. with Symon's ply/steel forms, so I have a question: Don't they require ties in them right away when you buckle them together? The reason I ask is because in the one pic of the back garage/retaining wall, you formed the entire outside, then tied the grid, w/o any of the forms inside. Do you send the ties in from the outside and feed them through for every form? I know we can do this with the Advanced, but it's a super PITA.......
Carry on, and keep posting pics of the superb build...........
tinbender 66
Well-known member
Thanks Jack. I only hope I can do half as well as you when it comes to actually setting up my shop.
As a concrete/masonry contractor, I really have to tip my hat to you, this project is impressive fro a residential home...............
My forming experience is limited to Advanced/Duraforms, and I don't have any previous exp. with Symon's ply/steel forms, so I have a question: Don't they require ties in them right away when you buckle them together? The reason I ask is because in the one pic of the back garage/retaining wall, you formed the entire outside, then tied the grid, w/o any of the forms inside. Do you send the ties in from the outside and feed them through for every form? I know we can do this with the Advanced, but it's a super PITA.......
Thanks a lot. You always wonder what people in the trade will think of your efforts. Glad you approve.
As you know, building one side of a form first is a habit that heavy commercial/industrial concrete contractors develop because there is so much 'stuff' in the wall that it's tough to build it all in while running both sides together.
You can connect the SteelPly panels together without ties using just the wedge bolts in spare holes. Our typical method is to put up one side and then install rebar, imbeds, block-outs, etc. We then 'stuff' the ties and 'close' the form.
It's not as fast but it's usually a necessity.
Last edited:
Are you serious, we love this stuff, keep up the great work.
Do you have an estimate of total yardage once the project is complete ?
flybefree
Well-known member
500....mein Gott in himmel! I was reading my boy a little picture book the other day and there were pictures of the great pyramids in Egypt and I thought two things:
1) the last humans to walk the face of our planet will be able to see the pyramids just like Julius Ceasar and you and I...and that's kind of cool.
2) if the last humans happen to be Maineiacs, good possibility if you consider the odds, they will be able to see at least the ruins of your house.
That is kind of cool too. Keep the pictures coming, awesome thread, thanks for sharing.
Shaun
1) the last humans to walk the face of our planet will be able to see the pyramids just like Julius Ceasar and you and I...and that's kind of cool.
2) if the last humans happen to be Maineiacs, good possibility if you consider the odds, they will be able to see at least the ruins of your house.
That is kind of cool too. Keep the pictures coming, awesome thread, thanks for sharing.
Shaun
Justanoldguy
Well-known member
I've been involved in concrete for 45 years.
Loving this build even from the other side of the planet.
Excuse this dumb Kiwi, but why is it that everyone needs to
post that they are subscribed? I just do it and keep reading.
Loving this build even from the other side of the planet.
Excuse this dumb Kiwi, but why is it that everyone needs to
post that they are subscribed? I just do it and keep reading.