The Concrete Underground
- Thread starter ConCretin
- Start date
When you pour the steps, do you start at the bottom or top ?
I would think if you start at the top, the concrete would run under the riser form and cause alow spot in the step. . .
But if you start at the bottom, it seems the weight of the multi steps would force the concrete out at the bottom.
I would think if you start at the top, the concrete would run under the riser form and cause alow spot in the step. . .
But if you start at the bottom, it seems the weight of the multi steps would force the concrete out at the bottom.
Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
Will the bollard L.E.D. lights be red and green? lol 'Red, right, returning'
Does your architect Carol have her own website? I'd like to see more of her work.
P.S. - When does the sluice and power house pour start? heh-heh
Does your architect Carol have her own website? I'd like to see more of her work.
P.S. - When does the sluice and power house pour start? heh-heh
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Justanoldguy
Well-known member
I usually start at the bottom but only fill the base.
Then go back and top up the step portion.
Has worked for me every time.
Then go back and top up the step portion.
Has worked for me every time.
You pretty much have to start at the bottom like Justanoldguy said. Slightly overfill and vibrate each tread and accept the fact that the concrete is going to 'bulge' a bit in the treads below that you've already filled. It's important for the ******** operator to be more concerned about consolidation than grade. Keep screeding off the excess concrete and tossing it back up.
After the tread is roughly level, slide a margin trowel under the bottom of the riser form in back to set the grade at the back of the tread. The top of the riser form in front establishes grade there. It's picky work but necessary to get a good flat tread with e slight slope for drainage.
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Carol's website can be found here;
www.carolwilsonarchitect.com
There was some talk about red or green for the light at the end of the dock but I figure the appropriate color would be white to represent an anchor light so we hopefully avoid someone running into it at night
The sluice and power house are undergoing a feasibility study, which I understand is not going well due to cost and environmental concerns.
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The steps are going to look great, but are you sure you don't want to screw a "stiff-back" to each riser before pouring???
As for the single-sided forming earlier mentioned, that's actually something new to me, but I think it is more common in comm. forming. I'm sure you realize that you're using 5-10 times the amount of rebar compared to a plain-jain resi. basement. Nothing wrong with that in you situation though.......
As for the single-sided forming earlier mentioned, that's actually something new to me, but I think it is more common in comm. forming. I'm sure you realize that you're using 5-10 times the amount of rebar compared to a plain-jain resi. basement. Nothing wrong with that in you situation though.......
Krokodil
Well-known member
Looks great!
Nolift911
Well-known member
Not too much to report but I've committed myself to daily updates to here's what I've got; Finished stripping the garage/shop foundation;
It seems to fit into the hillside nicely. WE'll use ICF's to bring the walls up to 10' above finish floor where the 11" structural roof slab forms the roof.
This will give me 10' of headroom in the shop. A greenhouse like structure will provide addional headroom and natural light over the lift.
We also finished up the forms, rebar and electrical rough in for the dock stairs;
We're planning on placing 7.5 cy of 5000 psi concrete in the morning.
In addition to LED lights in bollards on each landing, we're placing lights in the risers to make it easier to find our way up the stairs after those late night boat excursions.
We are fortunate to live on a great little section of the river with towns to the north and south with dockage, shops, bars and restaurants.
Living on the river has been a decades old dream that we are getting close to realizing. I didn't originally plan to spend two weeks building the dock but it would be a lot more difficult with the house in the way.
Very nice - also appreciate the daily updates with photos...
Thedoc14
Well-known member
Those are going to be some **** treads at night time, at least you will know which direction to head....
NASTYZEN
Well-known member
Wo!
This is a great build. Keep up the good work, I'll be watching and learning.
This is a great build.
Keep up the good work, I'll be watching and learning.Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
"The sluice and power house are undergoing a feasibility study, which I understand is not going well due to cost and environmental concerns. "
Gee LLWillysfan, I was hoping we would see the foundation for the first mill (power) wheel on a New England river since the end of the Industrial Revolution! lol
The government has grant programs for wind and solar projects, why not hydro-electric?
All kidding aside, those stairs and pedestals are going to be impressive when the forms are stripped off.
P.S. - Thanks for Carol's website; very clean, airy, and smart designs she does!
Gee LLWillysfan, I was hoping we would see the foundation for the first mill (power) wheel on a New England river since the end of the Industrial Revolution! lol
The government has grant programs for wind and solar projects, why not hydro-electric?
All kidding aside, those stairs and pedestals are going to be impressive when the forms are stripped off.
P.S. - Thanks for Carol's website; very clean, airy, and smart designs she does!
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Finally got the dock stairs placed today. As expected, it was a hard slog.
These stairs are suspended so good consolidation is a must. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the only way to accomplish this is to vibrate the hell out the concrete and then shovel it back up.
Given the difficult conditions, we ordered the 7 cy of concrete in two loads. Gave us a chance to get one flight in and deal with any issues before starting the second. We are using 5000 psi concrete and on a hot day, it can set up fast.
We had about 1/4" of form deflection on the first run so in between trucks we re-supported the first run and added a little extra camber to the second. Worked like a charm.
Wasn't long before the concrete was in and we left the finishers to their work
Finished product looks great but more importantly, I can get on with construction of the basement for the house. I am looking forward to stripping all the forms, cleaning up the mess and getting off the river bank.
We decided to finish out the day by placing the footing at the end of the garage
The wife decided the wall should be based on Phi or the golden ratio or some such voodoo. Gave my layout guy fits but we finally came up with a shape she liked.
There are several site retaining walls, most of which will get faced with a stone veneer. There is one small wall in the back yard that is hidden away and will stay exposed concrete. Ironically, it is the one that gave us problems resulting in this;
I decided in the beginning to give you guys the good, the bad and the ugly. This was the ugly. This little retaining wall was the victim of some poor communication and workmanship so it's coming out.
Stay in this business long enough and you'll eventually rip out some concrete. I wouldn't expect a client to accept inferior quality and I'm sure as hell not gonna look at it for the next few decades.
These stairs are suspended so good consolidation is a must. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the only way to accomplish this is to vibrate the hell out the concrete and then shovel it back up.
Given the difficult conditions, we ordered the 7 cy of concrete in two loads. Gave us a chance to get one flight in and deal with any issues before starting the second. We are using 5000 psi concrete and on a hot day, it can set up fast.
We had about 1/4" of form deflection on the first run so in between trucks we re-supported the first run and added a little extra camber to the second. Worked like a charm.
Wasn't long before the concrete was in and we left the finishers to their work
Finished product looks great but more importantly, I can get on with construction of the basement for the house. I am looking forward to stripping all the forms, cleaning up the mess and getting off the river bank.
We decided to finish out the day by placing the footing at the end of the garage
The wife decided the wall should be based on Phi or the golden ratio or some such voodoo. Gave my layout guy fits but we finally came up with a shape she liked.
There are several site retaining walls, most of which will get faced with a stone veneer. There is one small wall in the back yard that is hidden away and will stay exposed concrete. Ironically, it is the one that gave us problems resulting in this;
I decided in the beginning to give you guys the good, the bad and the ugly. This was the ugly. This little retaining wall was the victim of some poor communication and workmanship so it's coming out.
Stay in this business long enough and you'll eventually rip out some concrete. I wouldn't expect a client to accept inferior quality and I'm sure as hell not gonna look at it for the next few decades.
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kizer
Well-known member
Man this is the Super Uber Garage Build if I've ever seen one. Nothing like seeing everything from scratch.
Thanks. When we do stairs, we try to keep the forms to a minimum to give the finishers the best possible access. A 2x6 spanning 4' will have minimal deflection.
With regard to rebar, suffice it to say that there is a structural engineer involved. nuff said?
Wo!
This is a great build.
Man this is the Super Uber Garage Build if I've ever seen one. Nothing like seeing everything from scratch.
Thanks for your interest and encouragement.
Just need to remember to follow the little lights home
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There was some rattiness, a dip in the chamfer at the top and a misplaced step. Probably not the end of the world but I would see it every time I looked out the kitchen window and it would have bugged me forever.
This is a concrete house and the damn concrete has to be right.
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Mr onetwo
Well-known member
Well said.There is a spot of wall paint up near the top of my wood cathedral ceiling...I'm the only one who knows it's there and it bugs the sh*t out of me!
Keep up the good work!I hope to be able to stop in and visit your place at some point soon.Your workmanship and attention to detail is first rate!!!RHD 4 LIFE
Well-known member
Love this build!
Not too much progress today. We can't proceed with foundations for the main house until we backfill the dock stairs. I decided to give the stairs a couple extra days to build strength before we strip due to some cool weather.
So meanwhile we are working on building a retaining wall at one end the garage and ripping down one at the other.
This is the one we're building;
As I mentioned earlier the configuration of the wall is based on Phi, also known as the golden ratio. It's something my wife came up with. I don't claim to understand it but it is essentially a steadily decreasing radius.
Normally when we build radius walls we layout the interior and exterior form faces to different lengths and attach plywood walers that we've cut to the proper radius. In this case we shot the wall lines onto the footing with a total station and we're walking the forms around by eye. It does require a few braces though.
We'll vary the size of the panels for the opposite face as we close to keep the ties as perpendicular to the face of wall as possible.
You can see the start of a 1" brick-shelf we're forming out of 3/4" rigid and 1/4" plywood to accommodate a 1" rock thin veneer that will cover the face and end. The wall is of constant height and will conceal the tops of my buried propane tanks.
Oh yea, I almost forgot about the other retaining wall. Well, it's been reduced to rubble. A little 4000 psi concrete is no match for an embarrassed form carpenter with air powered tools.
We'll re-form this wall with 3/4 MDO plywood and treat it as architectural concrete, which is what I should have done the first time - among other things. Oh well, live and learn.
It's supposed to rain tomorrow, so I've scheduled the waterproofer for Wednesday, which is when I plan to strip the stairs. Hope to have both retaining walls and excavation for the house basement done by the end of the week.
So meanwhile we are working on building a retaining wall at one end the garage and ripping down one at the other.
This is the one we're building;
As I mentioned earlier the configuration of the wall is based on Phi, also known as the golden ratio. It's something my wife came up with. I don't claim to understand it but it is essentially a steadily decreasing radius.
Normally when we build radius walls we layout the interior and exterior form faces to different lengths and attach plywood walers that we've cut to the proper radius. In this case we shot the wall lines onto the footing with a total station and we're walking the forms around by eye. It does require a few braces though.
We'll vary the size of the panels for the opposite face as we close to keep the ties as perpendicular to the face of wall as possible.
You can see the start of a 1" brick-shelf we're forming out of 3/4" rigid and 1/4" plywood to accommodate a 1" rock thin veneer that will cover the face and end. The wall is of constant height and will conceal the tops of my buried propane tanks.
Oh yea, I almost forgot about the other retaining wall. Well, it's been reduced to rubble. A little 4000 psi concrete is no match for an embarrassed form carpenter with air powered tools.
We'll re-form this wall with 3/4 MDO plywood and treat it as architectural concrete, which is what I should have done the first time - among other things. Oh well, live and learn.
It's supposed to rain tomorrow, so I've scheduled the waterproofer for Wednesday, which is when I plan to strip the stairs. Hope to have both retaining walls and excavation for the house basement done by the end of the week.
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Does this mean that with the forms removed it'd eventually get to full strength but the cooler weather is slowing it? The forms are retaining heat from chemical action, correct? So leaving them on, while it's cool, will make them stronger or just cured faster?
You have it right, Brent. We actually blanketed the concrete to maintain it's inherent heat but the cooler temps will still tend to slow down strength gain.
Since the stairs are suspended, I don't want to pull away the temporary supports until the concrete is strong enough to support its own weight.
The typical spec for suspended concrete is 7 days and 70% of design strength. I used 5000 psi concrete and I probably won't have 3,500 after 5 days if I strip on Wednesday (I placed Friday) but I'm comfortable that they'll stay up.
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It's really starting to take shape.
Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
Your wife's decision to incorporate the 'Golden Ratio' in your build puts your home in with some impressive architectural company.
http://www.goldennumber.net/architecture.htm
Thanks for showing us the oops by the form carpenter; its comforting to know that even the pros make mistakes sometimes. I don't know if many of us would bite the bullet to tear it down and do it right, even knowing the sight of it would make us gnash our teeth and cuss every time we looked at it. lol
http://www.goldennumber.net/architecture.htm
Thanks for showing us the oops by the form carpenter; its comforting to know that even the pros make mistakes sometimes. I don't know if many of us would bite the bullet to tear it down and do it right, even knowing the sight of it would make us gnash our teeth and cuss every time we looked at it. lol
landroversforever
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2011
- Messages
- 86
What a great location!!
Loving all the concrete work. Can't wait for more. It seems strange to see a US home put together without any wood 
Loving all the concrete work
. Can't wait for more. It seems strange to see a US home put together without any wood Another wet spring day in Maine. It rained all day but we managed to get the retaining wall closed;
We'll finish this up tomorrow and get started on re-forming the wall we reduced to rubble yesterday. Also plan to start stripping the dock stairs tomorrow afternoon.
While we start this project we are also completing preparations to put our current home on the market. Part of this process includes moving all my junk out of my garage.
As I mentioned in my intro, I've already built a garage on the new property. It's 32x28 and is a pretty typical wood framed structure. This will be the temporary home for my shop tools and unfinished projects.
Since I'm limited (by wifely edict) how big a shop I can attach to the house, this structure is a kind of garage annex to handle overflow from the main shop. To make it easier to move tools, parts, etc between structures, both will be equipped with an overhead bridge crane.
I've already installed beams running the length of the upper garage.
A third beam, riding on trolleys will run end to end to allow me access to all parts of the garage. I'll install a similar setup in the lower garage. I figure this essentiall gives me a 28 x 60 garage connected by 2000 feet of road.
One of my challenges was finding a door that didn't block access to the overhead crane when open. I settled on a hangar door.
As you can see, it opens up and outward, which maintains the full opening and won't block access to the bridge crane. In hindsight, it was probably way overkill but it does fit the bill.
I spent the better part of the morning hauling junk like you see in the picture above from the old garage to the interim garage. The car below is pretty much bare metal and given the inclement weather I wrapped it up to protect it from the worst of the precip.
By noon, both of my projects were safe and sound in their new temporary home.
Tomorrow I plan to haul down all the shop tools and equipment. Once done with the move, I'll be out of commission until the new shop is done. Talk about motivation.
We'll finish this up tomorrow and get started on re-forming the wall we reduced to rubble yesterday. Also plan to start stripping the dock stairs tomorrow afternoon.
While we start this project we are also completing preparations to put our current home on the market. Part of this process includes moving all my junk out of my garage.
As I mentioned in my intro, I've already built a garage on the new property. It's 32x28 and is a pretty typical wood framed structure. This will be the temporary home for my shop tools and unfinished projects.
Since I'm limited (by wifely edict) how big a shop I can attach to the house, this structure is a kind of garage annex to handle overflow from the main shop. To make it easier to move tools, parts, etc between structures, both will be equipped with an overhead bridge crane.
I've already installed beams running the length of the upper garage.
A third beam, riding on trolleys will run end to end to allow me access to all parts of the garage. I'll install a similar setup in the lower garage. I figure this essentiall gives me a 28 x 60 garage connected by 2000 feet of road.
One of my challenges was finding a door that didn't block access to the overhead crane when open. I settled on a hangar door.
As you can see, it opens up and outward, which maintains the full opening and won't block access to the bridge crane. In hindsight, it was probably way overkill but it does fit the bill.
I spent the better part of the morning hauling junk like you see in the picture above from the old garage to the interim garage. The car below is pretty much bare metal and given the inclement weather I wrapped it up to protect it from the worst of the precip.
By noon, both of my projects were safe and sound in their new temporary home.
Tomorrow I plan to haul down all the shop tools and equipment. Once done with the move, I'll be out of commission until the new shop is done. Talk about motivation.
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Justanoldguy
Well-known member
I love old style willys gassers.
Pity about the 5 speed though.
Yea, I know. Struggling a bit with that myself but I'd like to be able to go more than 60 on the highway. If you don't like that, you're gonna hate the Crower injection we're converting to EFI. You wouldn't be on the HAMB too would ya?
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Boosted1
Well-known member
Nice cars. Good idea on the overhead crane. That door, wow..
Justanoldguy
Well-known member
It's got that 'thread of the year' feel to it.
Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
Considering the quality of the toys you have to work on, I'd suggest you put a 'second shift' on the jobsite so you can get busy on them ASAP! lol