The Concrete Underground

[hpw]

Love this thread and have been watching since day one. Would love for you to do a little "teaching" as you go along, such as is there a proper way to place the re-bar or tying re-bar? How or who determines the size of the rebar that is used? How is a "slump test" done? What, if any additives to the concrete are you using? Why 4000 psi concrete and not 3500. Do you spray anything of the forms before pouring and if so what do you use? Proper consolidation of the concrete when pouring?

Simple stuff that I'm sure you take for granted........the mechanics of what makes your concrete look so amazing when you strip the forms.

I know we could all learn a lot from this build and you are just the guy to do it.

Thanks for taking the time to post the construction of your house....fascinating build.

 

[Mr onetwo]

Hey there LL, I absolutely love cantilevers on a building...your design is very cool! I assume you will be using some sort of EPDM system for your flat roofs.If you are I would suggest going with a white material instead of regular black.I put a white standing-seam roof on my house and everybody thought I was crazy.I believe that it has made a huge difference in the summer...no A/C needed.There are federal tax credits available for energy saving roofs, also.The airport in Bangor switched to all white roofs years ago(I have been involved in several projects there)...the estimate I heard was over $100K per year in reduced cooling costs.Just a thought on this beautiful Saturday morning in Maine. Take care!

 

[ConCretin]

Curious to know if you will be the GC for the entire build and how often you have construction meetings. Also, does your engineer and architect attended all of the meetings? Are you the "site super" as well and how are you tracking the progress you are making in addition to the next steps/supply ordering.... Gantt Charts?

ODIS, I am the GC and I guess you could say, site superintendent. I'm using one of my concrete crews to do the work and have a foreman on site. Since we are self performing all the work so far, there really hasn't been a need for construction meetings.

I do have a weekly meeting with my architect and her structural engineer, which focuses primarily on design. Being the owner and builder has streamlined this process since the contract documents do not form the basis of a contract.

As far as the schedule, it's really just concrete, concrete, concrete for the months ahead so I really haven't done anything too elaborate.

Love this thread and have been watching since day one. Would love for you to do a little "teaching" as you go along, such as is there a proper way to place the re-bar or tying re-bar? How or who determines the size of the rebar that is used? How is a "slump test" done? What, if any additives to the concrete are you using? Why 4000 psi concrete and not 3500. Do you spray anything of the forms before pouring and if so what do you use? Proper consolidation of the concrete when pouring?

hpw, I've made notes of the specific items you mentioned and will make it a point to address them as we go along. I'll look for opportunities to add more specifics if it might be of interest.

Hey there LL, I absolutely love cantilevers on a building...your design is very cool! I assume you will be using some sort of EPDM system for your flat roofs.If you are I would suggest going with a white material instead of regular black.

Thanks for yet another great suggestion - I might have to put you on retainer.

You're right about the EPDM roof. It's going to be ballasted rather than mechanically and adhesively attached. Since most of what you see coming down the driveway is the roof, we don't want to see a glued down roof. Plus the cost of mechanical fasteners into concrete is quite high.

I'm not sure how many options I'll have for stone ballast but I'll definitely look for as light a color as I can get. Thanks again man.

 

[cderalow]

There's white river rock that's used pretty frequently down south as a built up flat roof ballast.

The key is to use white epdm over your insulation then the white ballast stone.

Stay away from the black epdm to help your cooling costs. Alternately, use a green roof system with xeriscape plants to both help cool, and take some of the water.

 

[Hottrod]

Enjoying your build tremendously! With regards to your roof membrane, for my own project I opted to use a spray-on foam, which provides excellent insulation as well as waterproofing. I'm not sure if this would be an option in your climate, due to the wider temperature fluctuations you'll be facing, but I have to tell you it's KICKING hot today and the underside of my roof slab is cool as a cucumber!

 

[KPSquared]

. Alternately, use a green roof system with xeriscape plants to both help cool, and take some of the water.

This. . .

It would be sweet to see a well designed landscape/balcony instead of just a boring old roof covered in rocks. . .

 

[NUTTSGT]

Quite literally I rooftop garden ?

 

[cj7365]

This is awesome, enjoy watching this. Maybe I missed it, but do you have an estimate of how many yards of concrete you will be using, and whats the cost of concrete up there in Maine?


Keep the pics coming

 

[Justanoldguy]

Maybe I missed it, but do you have an estimate of how many yards of concrete you will be using

Was mentioned earlier...
"close to 500 but the damn thing keeps growing so who knows".

 

[Thedoc14]

Yes. Those are steel tubes that tie the floor beams to the roof beams above. The challenge for my engineer was to design the cantilever so that the entire floor/roof system deflects uniformly. We're hanging a 13'x15' room off the side of the building.

We only had a 1.5meter cantilever on a 10meter wide building but it was carried over 3 storeys high.
They called for so much heavy rebar in only one corner that we hardly had any room for concrete.

They wanted 2 layers of 16mm (200x200) plus the extra 20mm rebar at 100mm space for 2meters width with 2 meters inboard of the base wall.

The floor was 200mm thick. there was spandeck (Litedeck) up to the inside wall the overhang was formed and exposed from underneath.

What sort of rebar are you having to put in the cantilever out from the base wall.

Love this build, cant wait to see the upper levels going in....

 

[Thedoc14]

One option they use here in Middle East, which I have never seen in Australia. They mostly have flat roofs. They lay a black bitumen barrier about 1/4" thick, then 30mm green foam insulation(not exactly what its called but very dense) then they cover that in about 4" of dirt/sand mix. Then they lay a 200mm square interlocking concrete paver.

I can check some of my pictures to clarify for you. But the heat here can get upto 55deg Celcius for weeks.

We have earth covered roof in Australia where they usually cover the roof with around 1-2foot of topsoil and grow grass and small shrubs. They say this keeps the inside temp around 20Deg C year round with limited heat and cooling.

Google - earth covered dwellings.
Then you could have a real Bunker look.

Great work.

 

[Mr onetwo]

Thanks for yet another great suggestion - I might have to put you on retainer.

Hey, I like that idea! So called "green roofs" are a great idea if you are into spending the time I think is needed to maintain the plants.Maybe I am wrong about that point(I am sure I will hear about it!) I would rather be on the river in my boat ,than on the roof pulling weeds! Seriously,your build has stimulated my thought process and when an appropriate idea pops in my head it is great to be able to send it your way!

 

[ilovevocs]

If your considering a vegetative roof system I would heavily consider a planted sytem utilising an asphalt built up roof system. American hydrotech would be my manufacturer of choice. What I wouldn't do is utilize a single ply membrane system, Carlisle and firestone both offer modular tray systems that primarily utilize sedums, the cost is less, but the systems functionality and aesthetics are not comparable to the planted systems. Low slope single ply systems are very refined and excellent roof systems, I just personally do not believe in utilising them in this Capacity.

 

[ConCretin]

What sort of rebar are you having to put in the cantilever out from the base wall.

The load is primarily carried by the steel I beams. The concrete floor and roof don't require additional rebar.

Alternately, use a green roof system with xeriscape plants to both help cool, and take some of the water.

It would be sweet to see a well designed landscape/balcony instead of just a boring old roof covered in rocks. . .

So called "green roofs" are a great idea if you are into spending the time I think is needed to maintain the plants.Maybe I am wrong about that point(I am sure I will hear about it!) I would rather be on the river in my boat ,than on the roof pulling weeds!

Quite literally I rooftop garden ?

One option they use here in Middle East, which I have never seen in Australia. They mostly have flat roofs. They lay a black bitumen barrier about 1/4" thick, then 30mm green foam insulation(not exactly what its called but very dense) then they cover that in about 4" of dirt/sand mix. Then they lay a 200mm square interlocking concrete paver.

We have earth covered roof in Australia where they usually cover the roof with around 1-2foot of topsoil and grow grass and small shrubs. They say this keeps the inside temp around 20Deg C year round with limited heat and cooling. .

If your considering a vegetative roof system I would heavily consider a planted sytem utilising an asphalt built up roof system. American hydrotech would be my manufacturer of choice. What I wouldn't do is utilize a single ply membrane system, Carlisle and firestone both offer modular tray systems that primarily utilize sedums, the cost is less, but the systems functionality and aesthetics are not comparable to the planted systems. Low slope single ply systems are very refined and excellent roof systems, I just personally do not believe in utilising them in this Capacity.

Thanks for the great discussion and suggestions. The architect originally included a green roof but to be honest, I really didn't see the point. It seemed like an added level of complexity without a discernible benefit. You guys have got me re-thinking it though

With regards to your roof membrane, for my own project I opted to use a spray-on foam, which provides excellent insulation as well as waterproofing. I'm not sure if this would be an option in your climate, due to the wider temperature fluctuations you'll be facing, but I have to tell you it's KICKING hot today and the underside of my roof slab is cool as a cucumber!

I've never seen that product used up here but it got my attention when I saw it in your build thread.


I want to thank everyone once again for your kind words, advice and encouragement. This project would be a lot less fun if you weren't along for the ride.

 

[oomz1975]

This is verging on legendary, keep up the good work.

 

[hpw]

This is legendary, keep up the good work.

fixed it for ya

 

[ConCretin]

Back at it. We're having a nice stretch of weather and I hope to take full advantage. We finished up the detailing of the exterior formwork and can now finish up the rebar, close the form and get it placed. We are burying the construction joint at an inside corner to make it less noticeable.

It's been a slow process but the details are important when your trying to get an architectural finish. It's a lot like finish work, complete with caulking and filler - body filler that is. We used silicone caulking and body filler to fill seams and holes.

The key to a uniform finish is waterproof formwork. Nothing will ruin your finish faster than leaky formwork that allows bleed water to carry the fines away otherwise known as 'sand streaking'.

We also ran the back face of the site retaining wall form. It will get the same stone veneer that passes through the house foundation. The stone is a nod to the ice house that originally occupied the site. We want it to give the sense that a modern home was built on the ruins of an old stone foundation.

In this photo you can see a 5' retaining wall on the left side of the house foundation, which is an extension of the site retaining wall to the right. This will hopefully contribute to the suggestion of a pre-existing structure.

This is where I spent the latter part of a beautiful afternoon.

I previously fabricated a couple brackets that I attached to the bottom of the dock stairs. The one on the left is for a gangway that provides access to the floats. The bracket to the right will secure a set of stairs down to the 'beach' I painted them with ZRC, a cold galvanizing compound that does a great job of preventing rust.

The bracket for the gangway has a couple built in pockets to accept 4x4's for a lifting frame we'll use to lift the gangway into position. It's a common feature of New England docks, which have to be removed every winter.

If you recall we used some existing rocks to hide the large concrete footing that actually supports the piers. We tied the rocks into the footing beyond by drilling and epoxying rebar into them. I'm pleased with the final product.

The dock will go in on Wednesday or Thursday. It should be an interesting project. We've got to move 3, 8'x16' floats, a 36' aluminum gangway and 3, 2000 lb mooring blocks up the river and get them in place amidst tides, wind and currents. Stay tuned for that

 

[madmagnus]

This is awesome! You truly know your concrete, keep up the good work i'm watching all the way

 

[NUTTSGT]

That stairway is awesome.

 

[JB!]

quality build!!!

 

[Mr onetwo]

Top notch work man.Your workmanship and attention to detail impresses me to no end.I've got to get down there and visit soon...very busy bidding right now

 

[HOTFR8]

So will that be your Jetty ?

 

[ConCretin]

The photo ops were a little limited today. We focused primarily on the site retaining wall. We completed the back side, installed the block-out for the stone veneer and started closing.

We'll finish closing tomorrow and add a strip of MDO above the shelf to give us a good edge. Top of concrete is 3" above the veneer creating a concrete cap on the 'stone' wall.

Here's a pic with a little more detail. The little round gray things are 'pizza wheels'. We use them to locate the rebar mat in the wall. As some of you have noted, there is a lot of rebar in this foundation. Most of it is driven by seismic, snow and wind loads and a top heavy structure.

In addition to placing the wall, we'll be installing the dock tomorrow. We'll finish up the basement wall formwork on Thursday and place on Friday.

I ordered the structural steel for the first floor yesterday including the cantilever. We're looking to erect steel in 4 weeks.

Since I'm light on progress photos, I thought I'd throw this in. Look what followed us home recently.

It was the in-laws who showed up to check out our progress. They drive the thing everywhere. It's got a 454, a 4 speed and some serious cool.

 

[Thedoc14]

The Munsters have come for a visit, very cool ride.

 

[JimVonBaden]

Looks great!

I have a question that has always bothered me; how do you have metal coming out of the concrete without creating a rust issue on exposed concrete later?

Example:

The "locator" rods will penetrate the outside of the concrete, right?

Obviously I know nothing about concrete work.

Jim

 

[cderalow]

Looks great!

I have a question that has always bothered me; how do you have metal coming out of the concrete without creating a rust issue on exposed concrete later?

Example:

The "locator" rods will penetrate the outside of the concrete, right?

Obviously I know nothing about concrete work.

Jim

the 'locator rods' look like the back side of a brick or stone veneer tie to me.

the little wheels are what locate the rebar within the form and concrete when it's poured.

the every 3' spaced rods look like the side of a stone anchor that gets cast into concrete.

http://www.caststone.org/casehistories/anchors.pdf

 

[Justanoldguy]

Ties for the stone facing?

 

[ConCretin]

You'll have to bear with me on this update. I realize we've digressed from the actual garage part of the project but I'm afraid it's going to get worse before it gets better.

We did manage to get the site retaining wall placed



As always we took care to place the concrete in 4' lifts and used vibrators to consolidate it.



As if we weren't far enough from an actual garage build at the point, now we're really going OT. We have a dock to put in.

The project started with loading up all the parts and pieces and hauling them to a marina about 1/4 mile south of the site



We used one of our knuckle-booms to place the dock components into the river where the barge could reach them.



The barge is owned by a local contractor who built most of the dock components and whom I hired to help me install the dock. He lashed all three floats and the gangway to his barge and headed up river.



When he got to the site he used an onboard crane to lift the gangway into the brackets I attached to the base of the dock stairs







Once he maneuvered all the floats into position, he went back for the 2000 lb mooring blocks we are using to anchor the dock. Once he got the blocks into position, his intrepid deck hand cut the line allowing the block to drop into position.









Here's the dock at the end of the day





So what does all this have to do with the garage - probably not much - but it was a big day for my wife and me so I wanted to share it with my GJ friends. When we bought this land a decade ago, we dreamed of the dock we'd build here someday. It was the reason we wanted to live here. Today was the culmination of that dream.

I've still got a house to build, and a garage, but today was big for us. As I said earlier, bear with me, we'll get back to the garage before we're done.

 

[IdahoJoe]

You'll have to bear with me on this update. I realize we've digressed from the actual garage part of the project but I'm afraid it's going to get worse before it gets better.

...

I don't think anyone is complaining about any part of this thread. I for one am loving it. I'm seeing and learning things about concrete construction I never would otherwise...

 

[ConCretin]

I have a question that has always bothered me; how do you have metal coming out of the concrete without creating a rust issue on exposed concrete later?

The rods you see are ties that hold the form panels together and resist the loads imposed by the concrete. The are designed with a 'break back' whereby the ties snaps off an inch or so into the concrete when twisted after the forms are stripped.

the 'locator rods' look like the back side of a brick or stone veneer tie to me.

Ties for the stone facing?

The stone veneer is actually adhered to the concrete with mortar almost like tile would be. No masonry ties are required.

 

[Boosted1]

Congratulations on the dock. Hope you get years of enjoyment from it.

 

[buildmyown]

Yeah i dont think anyone is going to complain this thread is pretty epic. I wanna do a rafting trip just to see it from the water.

 

[jkeyser14]

I anxious to learn what it costs to run the geothermal. Hopefully it's worth the high initial investment.

Hopefully you'll be pleasantly surprised. We upgraded to geothermal 3 years ago and since we were in an existing home we had our old bills to compare the geothermal to. We are paying 1/3 of what we did for oil (oil was $4.** a gallon). Our system will have paid for itself in another 4 years.

 

[HOTFR8]

The dock looks great. I would hate to think what all this is costing you for the concrete work and material.

 

[JimVonBaden]

The rods you see are ties that hold the form panels together and resist the loads imposed by the concrete. The are designed with a 'break back' whereby the ties snaps off an inch or so into the concrete when twisted after the forms are stripped.

Excellent! I knew there was something I was missing.

Thanks!

Jim

 

[Lobstrosity]

I don't think anyone is complaining about any part of this thread. I for one am loving it. I'm seeing and learning things about concrete construction I never would otherwise...

Agreed. I get the feeling that a lot of people on here are like me - interested in seeing pretty much anything being built! The fact that you'll also eventually have a garage is just a bonus to this thread.

 

[jonahbones]

Years ago my Uncle's brother built a dock in a residential canal estate, local council hadn't implemented any planning permissions for docks so it was cast concrete with diesel storage tanks, water and three phase power.............
Changed the rules after that

 

[SiGmA_X]

Put me down for another vote OK'ing your OT posts, LLWillysfan! The dock looks fantastic. How does the mooring of it work? I've been around docks a lot in my life, but only post mounted docks, never free floating.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Bare with you ? That dock and stairs portion of the build are freakin awesome.

 

[SuperSocket]

Put me down for another vote OK'ing your OT posts, LLWillysfan! The dock looks fantastic. How does the mooring of it work? I've been around docks a lot in my life, but only post mounted docks, never free floating.

Then you haven't been around docks your entire life


You should see cantilever docks and suspended docks if you want to see a strange dock