The Concrete Underground

[ConCretin]

Well it's finally starting to dry out and we appear to have a stretch of decent weather ahead. The crew continued detailing the formwork for the next pour;

Seems like an awful lot of formwork for a porch but that's what we're doin.

Here's a pic of the site as a whole

Looks bigger than it is.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'd be lost trying to figure out where each wall goes and getting the elevation correct.

 

[Bib Overalls]

Will you have a bomb shelter under the porch or does the plan call for back fill and a cap?

 

[ConCretin]

We're making good progress on the basement/terrace wall forms and are planning to place today. My electrician was out to rough in for lights.

The path from the house to the dock covers a number of stairs and walks and we are trying to ensure consistent lighting throughout. We have lights in stair risers, walls and bollards.

The vertical white strip you see in the right side of the pic is a control joint. It acts like a saw cut in a slab creating a reduced section that gives the concrete a place to crack if it decides it wants to. We cut alternate temperature bars to complete the deal. Nothing like a random crack to ruin a week of hard work.

It has dried out enough so we could get back to work on piping behind the garage and move a step closer to backfill. We finished up the 4" sanitary and ran the under drain.

Before running the perforated pipe, I laid a 6' strip of filter fabric on the footing and tacked it to the wall. After we place stone, we'll lay the fabric down over it.

Once we've brought the grade up a bit, we can run the electrical conduits through and up the wall. We ran the 1000' of underground down a few years ago including conduits for electrical, phone cable and a couple spares, one of which goes to the upper garage.

 

[ConCretin]

How did you connect him to your mooring, was the buoy all ready there or did somebody go skinny dipping...

So what sort of rainfall did you get and for how long to raise the river that much.

When we put the dock in, I dropped an extra mooring block. It has a length of very heavy chain connected to a longer length of lighter 5/16" chain, which is shackled to the ball along with a 5/8" rope pendant. No skinny dipping required, just a boat hook. Not sure on the final rainfall tally.

I'd be lost trying to figure out where each wall goes and getting the elevation correct.

It's like anything else Nutts. When you take it one step at a time, it's a lot more manageable. Though I gotta admit, this thing does have a lot of moving pieces.

Will you have a bomb shelter under the porch or does the plan call for back fill and a cap?

Great question. The plans call for fill and a cap but I struggled a bit with that. It seemed like it would make more sense to create usable space. At the end of the day I decided it would be too complicated and expensive to build a waterproof structural 'roof' than it would to just fill it in.

 

[Deltaphi216]

man, this build is insane. Thank you for sharing!

 

[Binrat]

I noticed the guys are all wearing sweatshirts and hoodies, here in Texas its t-shirt weather or you melt.

I'm following this. The state is building a toll road in front of my work, same type of forms etc. I think you are making better progress with less crew!

 

[ConCretin]

Since we planned to place concrete today, we brought the conveyor down a couple hours early to place crushed stone for the garage under drain.

The Bobcat works great for feeding the belt.

By the time concrete showed up we were ready to move on to placing the wall.

There is a lot of detail in the walls

Here's a set of anchor bolts for the structural steel. You'll notice the bolts are mounted in a template that can be moved around to ensure we get them on line even if the formwork moves.

Here's a few of the many sleeves we installed;

This is the control joint detail I mentioned previously. The imbedded strip is made of Azek. We rip most of our reglets out of this material because it strips more easily and cleanly than natural wood.

It's always great to place concrete on Friday. You go home with a sense of accomplishment and the concrete gets a couple days to gain strength and cure before formwork is removed.

 

[abstamaria]

Very impressive workmanship and detail, LLWillysFan.

Andy

 

[jhelrey]

Wish we had a conveyor truck when we had to haul rock. (Ex landscape foreman)

 

[NUTTSGT]

Great question. The plans call for fill and a cap but I struggled a bit with that. It seemed like it would make more sense to create usable space. At the end of the day I decided it would be too complicated and expensive to build a waterproof structural 'roof' than it would to just fill it in.

When one of the guys I work with built his parents home they built a cold storage area under the front porch. Somewhat like a cap and fill I would guess but access trough a door in the basement. Since he as a buddy that owns a scrap yard, he bought some used guard rail and used it as the bottom of the form for the porch floor.(cold storage ceiling) Anybody around you ever do anything like that ?

Since we planned to place concrete today, we brought the conveyor down a couple hours early to place crushed stone for the garage under drain.

This picture just caught me funny. Not trying to insult anybody or sound sexist in any way. I see what appears to be hair tucked up under the hard hat. Female worker ?

 

[ConCretin]

I noticed the guys are all wearing sweatshirts and hoodies, here in Texas its t-shirt weather or you melt.

Still a lot of cool damp weather this time of year. Most Mainers are just hopin that summer falls on a weekend this year

Very impressive workmanship and detail, LLWillysFan.

Thanks Andy. I must be doing something right if you're impressed.

Wish we had a conveyor truck when we had to haul rock. (Ex landscape foreman)

Definitely beats a wheelbarrow although we've got those too.

When one of the guys I work with built his parents home they built a cold storage area under the front porch. Somewhat like a cap and fill I would guess but access trough a door in the basement. Since he as a buddy that owns a scrap yard, he bought some used guard rail and used it as the bottom of the form for the porch floor.(cold storage ceiling) Anybody around you ever do anything like that ?

This picture just caught me funny. Not trying to insult anybody or sound sexist in any way. I see what appears to be hair tucked up under the hard hat. Female worker ?

Haven't seen guardrail used that way but it seems like a good way to repurpose scrap materials.

Yes, that's Kathy. She's been with me for a long time is a great worker. More importantly, she doesn't mind working with knuckleheads.

 

[KPSquared]

I have found any girl that can put up with the usual meat head **** that comes from any kind of labour crew is generally a good person to hang out with! Hell, even in my non-labour environment (Air Traffic Control) the girls I work with are awesome. Thick skin, quick wit, and good humor. . . qualities of a good human, male or female.

All this form work is mind boggling. I just can't look away. I think your build thread and a few others ate up all the data on my phone plan! I love this site!

 

[NUTTSGT]

Yes, that's Kathy. She's been with me for a long time is a great worker. More importantly, she doesn't mind working with knuckleheads.

Thought so, I was putting money on the fact that she has probably outworked more than one guy and knows how to put the rest in their place when the time comes.

 

[landroversforever]

Loving all the detail . Always been fascinated by building work since I was a small child watching the rest of the houses in my road being built.

 

[kidatari]

What a great build! Looking forward to watching more progress

 

[TehMooSe]

Subbed

 

[ConCretin]

When you place concrete on Friday, you spend all day Monday stripping formwork. You can see one of the 4x4 block-outs for the ductwork crawl space. The terrace floor is at the bottom of the strip of architectural concrete on the left. A cantilevered concrete bench will top it off.

The architectural concrete looks good. The technique we've been using - applying MDO plywood to our modular forms - is a compromise at best but it seems to have worked. When we do the interior concrete, we'll build custom forms.

The soils we have excavated are very bony with lots of big rocks. To protect the foundation and waterproofing, we're using sand. We used the Telebelt to berms sand up as high as we could. We'll repeat the process as we go up.

We also extended the underground electrical to the house. From left to right; 2 1/2" power in from the pad mount, 2" power in from the generator, 3" cable, and two 2" spares.

We mounted a piece of plywood over 3" of rigid insulation to create a backer to mount the panel.

My electrician will be back tomorrow to install the panel. We'll install a waterproof cover to protect it until the building is closed in.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Is that going to be a whole house generator ?

 

[HOTFR8]

Is that going to be a whole house generator ?

More information please as this makes what you are doing even more interesting.

 

[ishiboo]

More information please as this makes what you are doing even more interesting.

Really? The guy is building a house with cantilevered rooms out of 500 cubic yards of concrete, and some silly old backup generator interests you?

It's not going to be powered by fusion, what is the most interesting thing he can reveal? A micro turbine?

 

[jimmie jam]

WOW, this is a work of art (and love)!!!

 

[Foxxtrot]

Really? The guy is building a house with cantilevered rooms out of 500 cubic yards of concrete, and some silly old backup generator interests you?

It's not going to be powered by fusion, what is the most interesting thing he can reveal? A micro turbine?

I don't care who you are, that's funny right there

 

[HOTFR8]

Really? The guy is building a house with cantilevered rooms out of 500 cubic yards of concrete, and some silly old backup generator interests you?

It's not going to be powered by fusion, what is the most interesting thing he can reveal? A micro turbine?

It interests me as it has to be intergrated into the wiring and that is also part of the design so it is part of the whole complex. Further to that it makes the place self sufficient for power in some way and that in these days is interesting to many of us. Even small details are interesting to many of us.

Maybe the Generator will be run by water on that river

I don't care who you are, that's funny right there

I was wondering if the Doc and Marty would appear ?

 

[Justanoldguy]

Really? The guy is building a house with cantilevered rooms out of 500 cubic yards of concrete, and some silly old backup generator interests you?

It's not going to be powered by fusion, what is the most interesting thing he can reveal? A micro turbine?

Well it sure does interest me and probably a lot of others too.
500 cub of concrete doesn't interest me either.
But the design/application/methods sure do though.
You have a nice day now won't you.

 

[SiGmA_X]

Well it sure does interest me and probably a lot of others too.
500 cub of concrete doesn't interest me either.
But the design/application/methods sure do though.
You have a nice day now won't you.

+1, when I saw the post that there was going to be a geny (I assumed there would be anyway ) I wanted to know more, too.

 

[ishiboo]

It was meant to be a light joke... now I realize many of you don't get out much

 

[ConCretin]

Well, the conversation has become a bit more lively since I was here last. For what it's worth, I'm glad you guys are finding things to talk about.

With regard to the generator, it won't be a whole house system. The lines from the road are underground and we are on a major utility corridor so we don't expect extended outages. With that said, we are in Maine and do experience the occasional Nor'easter so a little preparation goes a long way.

We haven't determined the size yet but the generator will be located behind the garage and fueled by propane from a dedicated tank. The main panel will be in the garage and there will be auto transfer switch between it and a sub panel in the basement.

The sub panel will supply specific circuits such as lights, the well pump, refrigeration and a propane fired boiler that will normally supply domestic hot water but can be employed to supply the radiant floor heat in the event of an outage. A generator big enough to run the geothermal system probably isn't practical.

I'll try to provide more details as we complete the design process. In the meantime, we'll have to keep ourselves entertained with more concrete.

 

[HOTFR8]

It was meant to be a light joke... now I realize many of you don't get out much

I could see the joke in it

Well, the conversation has become a bit more lively since I was here last. For what it's worth, I'm glad you guys are finding things to talk about.

With regard to the generator, it won't be a whole house system. The lines from the road are underground and we are on a major utility corridor so we don't expect extended outages. With that said, we are in Maine and do experience the occasional Nor'easter so a little preparation goes a long way.

We haven't determined the size yet but the generator will be located behind the garage and fueled by propane from a dedicated tank. The main panel will be in the garage and there will be auto transfer switch between it and a sub panel in the basement.

The sub panel will supply specific circuits such as lights, the well pump, refrigeration and a propane fired boiler that will normally supply domestic hot water but can be employed to supply the radiant floor heat in the event of an outage. A generator big enough to run the geothermal system probably isn't practical.

I'll try to provide more details as we complete the design process. In the meantime, we'll have to keep ourselves entertained with more concrete.

Thanks for the explanation and I look forward to reading (and seeing) more.

 

[mrb]

if i had a concrete bunker like that, I would spring for a big diesel generator and 30-45 days of onsite fuel storage....maybe 2 for redundancy. and have them inside the structure (for those who say you cant have a generator inside, its done all the time in office buildings there are just certain things you have to do).

oh, and a battery room with 10kah or so of batteries and inverters set up to run base loads in the house to keep things alive without running generator during the night or whatever...

 

[Thedoc14]

oh, and a battery room with 10kah or so of batteries and inverters set up to run base loads in the house to keep things alive without running generator during the night or whatever...

Sounds like you have a thought process in mind of your own...

 

[HOTFR8]

You could always add Solar with battery back up to the invertor grid connected and then the Generator would be a fail safe.

I have the Solar system here and the odd times the power is off I still have not required a Generator, but would like to add one in at a later date and even then I may not connect it to the existing system.

 

[64dragnwagon]

Sounds like you have a thought process in mind of your own...

Preparing for the "zombie apocolypse" maybe?

 

[Justanoldguy]

now I realize many of you don't get out much

Probably way more than you could ever imagine.

 

[morfmedia]

if i had a concrete bunker like that, I would spring for a big diesel generator and 30-45 days of onsite fuel storage....maybe 2 for redundancy. and have them inside the structure (for those who say you cant have a generator inside, its done all the time in office buildings there are just certain things you have to do).

oh, and a battery room with 10kah or so of batteries and inverters set up to run base loads in the house to keep things alive without running generator during the night or whatever...

Just to try and understand this, is he now preparing for WWIII? 45 days of power seems a lot but I guess if it snows a lot it can easily take down power lines for a while?? What does he gain by having the generator(s) indoors as opposed to behind his garage out the way?

Some of the above sounds more like an IT datacenter than a home.

 

[pertneer]

Some of the above sounds more like an IT datacenter than a home.

I thought the same thing, but it would be cool.

 

[idoine in toronto]

For those interested, below is a link to a brief piece on a back-up generator install on "Ask this Old House".

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/0,,1631573,00.html

 

[ConCretin]

Stripping has continued on last Friday's placement. Here is the front of the terrace wall. You can see most of the electrical boxes for the lights that will illuminate the walkway to the dock. Finish grade is at the top of the site retaining wall on the left and bottom of the architectural concrete on the right. A set of stairs will run down between them.

We also continued excavation along the front of the house. The lower wall creates the terrace. The higher wall is the house itself

There is a an organic layer at the original topsoil grade about 8' below the finish floor of the house. We covered it with fill when we raised the site grade. Per the recommendations in our geotechnical report, we are now excavating down to remove it. Wish I knew then what I know now.

The weather has turned on us again but the guys don't like to miss work so they build tents.

Placed concrete around noon. A tough job made tougher when the weather *****. I must have missed the memo regarding today's dress code. I was wearing a gray rain jacket.

Also crawled up over the hill with the excavator to see if we could get some backfilling done behind the garage.

We got most of the back as high we could before we need to add another course of sand against the waterproofing.

With all that wet clay, my operator was rightly concerned he would slide into the hole so we decided to finish up under dryer conditions.

 

[HOTFR8]

For those interested, below is a link to a brief piece on a back-up generator install on "Ask this Old House".

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/0,,1631573,00.html

That may be interesting but it does not show us what is happening with this project.

 

[Justanoldguy]

The weather has turned on us again but the guys don't like to miss work so they build tents.

Looks like you need a huge marquee to cover the work area.