Above 1200 Sq/FT The Empty Cup 40x64 Post Frame

[eastmtn]

I'm glad you explained why you went with rockwool! I was thinking while reading your last post "I wonder why he chose rockwool", and now i know!

killer thread! love it!

I'm glad you like it!
As I go through this I'm trying to discuss the original plans that I had and highlight why I chose or had to make changes to that plan. It's an exercise in opportunity cost. There are some places where I would not sacrifice short term cost savings at the expense of long term gains. But I can't fulfill all of my wants without paying for it monetarily or avoiding future unforeseen problems.
Hopefully, by exposing my successes and failures, complete with pictures, someone else can get to their desired outcome with less bruises.

 

[eastmtn]

Well it's been 2 weeks since my last post and I don't have much progress to report. I will, however, describe some issues that are affecting the progress.
I still don't have power to the building. My local utility farmed out most of their labor to outside contractors a number of years ago. The utility contractor repeatedly is telling the utility project manager that my site isn't ready because of how much water is in the open pit next to the transformer where the tie in is to occur. The pad mounted transformer was originally poorly placed by the utility in a low lying area less than 5 feet away from an active drainage ditch. This is causing water to constantly seep into the tie in pit. When the consistent rains come, I have seen the transformer sitting in standing water and the water dangerously close to the 200 amp load break elbows that feed the transformer. The utility is not interested in moving this pad-mounted transformer that feeds 2 other homes in a rural area. So, I made a mini levy after buying the house to divert water away and it has done its job.
My GC has pumped out the hole several times to gauge how quickly it is filling up. He thinks that this current dry spell has been long enough that the hole could be pumped out in the morning and it will remain dry if the crew comes the same day. So now we are trying to get back on the utility contractor's schedule for service connection.

This is the pit that was dugout to make the tie in at the transformer. The hole is much bigger now than what the pic shows

 

[ScottW]

Yeah we have had record breaking rain this year so I think the water tables are very high. Hopefully this upcoming dry weather will help you.

 

[eastmtn]

Problem #2 is a combo that has to do with county permits. My GC applied for the permit to insulate the building, install heating and cooling, and build the 2 story loft in April. The permit approval is being held up because even though the building is designated as a non habitable garage they want it insulated as a habitable space and therefore a minimum of R-38 insulation in the ceiling. To do this would require furring out the 2 x6's to make room for R-38 or applying closed cell foam. Both fixes take the project outside of the limits that I'm willing to pay.
The second part of problem #2 is that the county wants the GC to install new footings under the interior walls of the loft. The original building was engineered and permitted with interior load bearing posts that start 4ft below the pad and rise to the ceiling to accommodate a loft. But somehow it's no longer good enough as previously approved.]
It's been a back and forth email affair between the GC and the county and we're hoping that it will be resolved next week so the project can move ahead full steam. In the meantime the GC is slowly working on the garage and doing what they can without the risk of having to remove work that won't be part of the approved permit.

Some of the ceiling insulation is in and the walls are about 80 percent insulated.

 

[Jesse69]

I am doing close cell they start praying next week 4” ceiling and 3” wall that puts me at r33 in ceiling and r22 In walls to total of 46k shop is 42x96. That price from January went up 18k in 6 months. Still spray foam is a better product. Also Dug out footing for my loft last minute just thinking what your going through glad i did. Only Dug out where all support walls will be and went larger in column areas.

 

[78SC4X4]

What a royal pain! Why are they considering the wall load-bearing? If I recall correctly, my plans called for thicker concrete pads under those interior loft supporting posts. I also don't have any walls, so the deck is designed for the span from post to post and the posts take all the load.

I need to add more insulation in the ceiling like you are doing. Does the mineral wool stay in place on its own or are there straps I can't see? Are you going to cover it with something?

 

[eastmtn]

I am doing close cell they start praying next week 4” ceiling and 3” wall that puts me at r33 in ceiling and r22 In walls to total of 46k shop is 42x96. That price from January went up 18k in 6 months. Still spray foam is a better product. Also Dug out footing for my loft last minute just thinking what your going through glad i did. Only Dug out where all support walls will be and went larger in column areas.

That's an impressive jump in price for the foam. My ceiling will be R-30 in the ceiling and R-23 in the walls if the county allows us to continue like we want. Spray foam has a lot of great advantages. Mineral wool fits my use case better in this instance.
You likely have saved yourself time and frustration by digging out those footings at the last minute.

What a royal pain! Why are they considering the wall load-bearing? If I recall correctly, my plans called for thicker concrete pads under those interior loft supporting posts. I also don't have any walls, so the deck is designed for the span from post to post and the posts take all the load.

I need to add more insulation in the ceiling like you are doing. Does the mineral wool stay in place on its own or are there straps I can't see? Are you going to cover it with something?

78SC4X4, our plans are designed by the same contractor and engineer and share the loft design in common. The GC has handled all communication so far so I don't know exactly why they consider the interior walls to be load bearing. I noticed that you didn't have any problems in this regard. My building also has thicker concrete at the loft posts and they have concrete footings with an engineering note that it is for a loft.
the 2 interior walls are floating on those posts and the floor joists are oriented to act as a cantilever for the stair landing and transfer load to those same posts. Essentially I could dig new footings right now under the walls and neither the walls nor the second story would be compromised because they are being held up by the interior and exterior posts.
The mineral wool doesn't need any extra support when it goes up. No straps. It's much stiffer than fiberglass and doesn't sag over time like fiberglass. I'll have the same 29 gauge liner panel on the ceilings and most walls as the exterior siding. I opted for nailed down solid hardwood flooring on the back wall and loft floor in combination with the mineral wool four better sound acoustics. All of that metal siding and roofing reverberates a lot. Mineral wool is the best insulation material for sound absorption. It cuts real easy also. Here are some more closeup pics that might help.

Yeah we have had record breaking rain this year so I think the water tables are very high. Hopefully this upcoming dry weather will help you.

Water table! That's the word I was looking for. Thanks.

 

[Maxcustody]

Sorry to hear you are having so many issues with the electric company and the county permit side. I hope it gets all worked out in your favor, good luck!

 

[eastmtn]

Sorry to hear you are having so many issues with the electric company and the county permit side. I hope it gets all worked out in your favor, good luck!

Thanks Scott. Hey, since the imaginary plumber you sent last time worked so well, do you mind if I borrow your entire county for a week or two? I promise to give it back. I just need to get over this hump.

 

[Jayman17]

You are making great progress with that insulation and the project is looking good!

Jay

 

[Maxcustody]

Thanks Scott. Hey, since the imaginary plumber you sent last time worked so well, do you mind if I borrow your entire county for a week or two? I promise to give it back. I just need to get over this hump.

Didn’t want to rub it in I only needed a building permit which costs $72 and the power company signed off on my panel and meter after it was complete. No others needed . Really only reason for the building permit is so they know you added something for property taxes. Which by the way raises my annual taxes an additional $200 Like I said I was trying to keep all that to myself and not have you feel worse

 

[eastmtn]

You are making great progress with that insulation and the project is looking good!

Jay

Thanks. At this point I'll take any forward progress that I can muster up. I'm also looking forward to seeing how the stairs come out. They are being fabricated now with a metal stringer and glue laminate treads.

 

[eastmtn]

Didn’t want to rub it in I only needed a building permit which costs $72 and the power company signed off on my panel and meter after it was complete. No others needed . Really only reason for the building permit is so they know you added something for property taxes. Which by the way raises my annual taxes an additional $200 Like I said I was trying to keep all that to myself and not have you feel worse

No worries there. My county is destined to get their pound of flesh. Right after the permit for the structure was ready for final inspection the assessor came by to look at the building. Somehow my building value for the tax lot went up $20,000 but my tax bill went down $40. I don't know where these people went to school but it works for me.

 

[eastmtn]

Most of the insulation is in. After the crew said they were done my foreman and I inspected and found insulation missing in between the two rafters. So we took some time and filled in those gaps.

 

[Maxcustody]

Most of the insulation is in. After the crew said they were done my foreman and I inspected and found insulation missing in between the two rafters. So we took some time and filled in those gaps.

Looks great, it’s a good thing the foreman is on top of things there

 

[eastmtn]

Kids are honest. There's no interpretation needed when they say things like "why are there white gaps over here and not there."

 

[83VillageRepair]

Looks great!

 

[eastmtn]

Looks great!

Thanks. Finally ready for the inside of the walls to be sheathed.

 

[Jayman17]

Now that looks cozy

 

[eastmtn]

The crew is working on installing the brown 29 gauge liner panels for the ceiling. After the first panel was put in the GC had the crew switch to california corners to avoid air gaps where the ceiling meets the wall.



Below is a close up pic showing the panel and framing with and without california corners to show the difference.

 

[Maxcustody]

It's going to look great with those ceiling panels! Learn something new every day......................California corners, interesting. I had to google that and read up on it.

 

[eastmtn]

It's going to look great with those ceiling panels! Learn something new every day......................California corners, interesting. I had to google that and read up on it.

I had to look it up also…with lots of example pictures to understand why it was done.

 

[eastmtn]

More of the ceiling was put up in the last week. For some reason this seems to be a slow process. With 2 workers they are getting a 12'x12' section done per day. At this point nearly 50% of the ceiling liner panel is installed.
Still no word on electricity. I saw a rep from the utility on the property last Monday checking out either end of the service from my cameras. .
The GC was unable to find a 48 inch door for the shop through their local suppliers for over 2 months. Initially I relented and told them to get a 36 inch door and reframe the opening. I'll let it be known now that I am tenacious and have great difficulty settling. Over the weekend I found 2 manufacturers that supplied 48 inch doors. Menards, whose nearest store is in Wyoming and CDF distrubtors who makes commerical doors to order. Menards was able to ship to WA for an enormous $600 + the door cost. I ended up ordering a steel door with frame and hardware through CDF at a reasonable price and $275 shipping cost. They have 12 day lead times but can expedite down to 3 days for an extra fee. https://www.cdfdistributors.com/

 

[Maxcustody]

The ceiling is looking good. Hopefully the crew moving that slow means they are taking their time and doing it right………or you have a big pile of cigarettes butts somewhere due to all their smoke breaks.

On the door, I don’t recall where this is going? Is it for the loft?

 

[jollygreengiant]

They aren't putting vapour barrier on the ceiling?

 

[eastmtn]

The ceiling is looking good. Hopefully the crew moving that slow means they are taking their time and doing it right………or you have a big pile of cigarettes butts somewhere due to all their smoke breaks.

On the door, I don’t recall where this is going? Is it for the loft?

Haha they don't smoke but they go through energy drinks like water. Thankfully, they clean up after themselves well. I have a very visible camera that's there so that I can see progress and get before and after snapshots. From the footage I've seen I'm glad that I'm not paying them by the hour.

This is the door that leads to the shop underneath the loft. It will help in minimizing dust in the main area but still be wide enough to move things in and out.

They aren't putting vapour barrier on the ceiling?

Yep, there is a vapor barrier on the ceiling and walls. It's a 2 inch tri-dimensional polybacked vapor retarder.

 

[eastmtn]

I'll let this post speak for itself.

 

[Maxcustody]

YES, they finally got you hooked up! This is GREAT

 

[jbrentd]

Congrats on this milestone! Shop is looking great.

 

[eastmtn]

YES, they finally got you hooked up! This is GREAT

We're cooking with fire now!

Congrats on this milestone! Shop is looking great.

Thanks! I've got a ways to catch up to the progress on your space but I'll take what I can get.

 

[eastmtn]

The crew has begun trenching for the septic. It took some time to find the septic tank initially. After checking the county permit and scratching the ground like Foghorn Leghorn I finally checked the back deck. Part of the deck was not bolted in place so I slid it back and found this.

Here is the path that the trench has to take. There's also a curtain drain and junction in the path that will have to be circumvented.

 

[Maxcustody]

WOW, finding it under the deck was certainly a treasure hunt.

 

[eastmtn]

Some treasures are better left buried.

 

[eastmtn]

The check engine light came on in my wife's vehicle so I told her to drive the Porsche until I could get time to look at it.
She texted me at work a few minutes ago.


She has learned when to call my bluff.

 

[eastmtn]

At this point about 80% of the ceiling panels are installed. The lights need to be remounted. But enough is done so that the lift rentals can be returned. The crew will come back with scaffolding next week to start on the metal siding inside.

The crew put up some of the Texture Plus faux brick also. Some of it has more texturing than others. It's a nail and glue down product with extensive testing and made in the USA. Class A fire rating is optional. R value 5. I bought it last November at a discount and the manufacturer even agreed to delay producing my order for a few months because I had no place to store it. It is also exterior rated. It's available in brick, stone, slate, wood, and bamboo faux styles. This one is Rustic Pioneer Tan. Texture Plus.

This is what it looks like after the seams are caulked.

 

[Maxcustody]

Looking great! I really like the faux brick and it is going to add another dimension to the space when it is complete

 

[jbrentd]

I can't remember how or where, but I found the original DEQ permit for our system that had a crude drawing (with dimensions) of our tank and lateral lines. Without that, I'm sure the plumbers would have hit the system with their backhoe several times. Are you putting in a grinder pump?

 

[eastmtn]

I can't remember how or where, but I found the original DEQ permit for our system that had a crude drawing (with dimensions) of our tank and lateral lines. Without that, I'm sure the plumbers would have hit the system with their backhoe several times. Are you putting in a grinder pump?

This is the crude drawing from '96 that I had to go off of. It didn't make sense at first because according to the drawing the tank was either under the balcony, the deck, or the concrete driveway apron and I thought you couldn't build over any of that by code. But the detachable deck left more than enough room to drop a tank and service it for county code.
I hadn't thought about a grinder pump. The garage is about 30 ft higher than the house and septic. I'll ask the installer when I see him. Nice catch!

Looking great! I really like the faux brick and it is going to add another dimension to the space when it is complete

Thanks, I figured I'd better make it somewhat comfortable for those not so rare times that I'm on my wife's list. . The brick and wood paneling,future project, are modeled off of a barndominium I saw in Texas.

 

[jbrentd]

I hadn't thought about a grinder pump. The garage is about 30 ft higher than the house and septic. I'll ask the installer when I see him. Nice catch!

I was just asking because it was hard for me to tell what kind of height difference there is between the garage and septic tank. With that amount of drop, you shouldn't need it, but I'm no expert. In my opinion, the fewer the better, when it comes to mechanical devices on septic systems. One less thing to break down.

 

[eastmtn]

The 48 inch door was delivered by freight today. I took an hour to clear the tree limbs on my road before the LTL got here. I still haven't bucked and limbed all the downed trees that were in the road from the previous winter. It's on the to do list.


Grey liner panels were installed on the right wall yesterday. The GC is waiting on an order of J channel trim to arrive so that the wall and ceiling seams can be joined with a clean look.

I had a talk with the foreman today and he acknowledged and apologized for the slow progress. The smaller jobs that had him strung out all over the peninsula are far enough along that he can be on-site more often. Until now the crew that's assigned has been working with limited direction and a bi monthly onsite inspection by the foreman. I haven't pushed their timeline because it has allowed me to keep up with the periodic draws with income and avoid using cash reserves. I'm now ready for the pace to pick up.