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The Facom Tools Thread.

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Dave455

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I have one of the Pico series too. I believe I once read on another thread that many European-branded bit ratchets come out of the same Taiwanese factory. Not sure of the origin of this one.

IMG_0964.jpg

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It depends what you mean by “branded”.

Very few European tool companies take an “off the shelf” bit ratchet, and put their name on it, although some do.

Some companies have the tools made in Taiwan, but to their design. This is the Facom approach. Although many of these bit ratchet’s are similar, the design of the tool was originally Facom’s (in co-operation with Rotar, Taiwan) as was the design of the sets.

Other European companies (e.g Wera) have similar tools made by Rotar but the designs of the tools are very different.

Unsurprisingly, as Facom are owned by SBD you will see similar sets from all of SBD’s companies, and as patents / agreements have now expired, you will also now see similar sets made by Rotar for other companies, or under their own brand - Toptul (this is more recent).

Many European companies manufacture their own bit ratchet’s, usually based on one of their 1/4” drive ratchet’s. Stahlwille, Hazet, Gedore, and several others all do this, and the tools are generally good quality, and made in their own respective factories.

The problem is, that a regular 1/4” ratchet often has a bigger head than a bit ratchet needs. A dedicated bit ratchet can also include features such as the dishing behind the head to hold the bit in the screw, which are difficult to incorporate in a tool derived from a square drive ratchet.

So yes, some bit ratchets are made by Rotar, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. I have a fair few bit ratchet’s, and the Facom R.PE made by Rotar is one of the most practical.
C3BB76EF-C812-423C-B745-FC21F87754A4.jpeg
 
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mrjaw14

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I really want MM and SAE sets of either the Facom 440LX or USAG 285X in those plastic folding holders, but sadly I think they only come in MM right? Even those I'm not sure where to get in the USA
 
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I really want MM and SAE sets of either the Facom 440LX or USAG 285X in those plastic folding holders, but sadly I think they only come in MM right? Even those I'm not sure where to get in the USA
The original “long pattern” combination wrench was the Facom 40L. These are generally still available, and are available in both Metric and SAE. They are quite nice.
82642E7E-1369-45CC-9555-3A5FFEFB3F8A.jpeg

Having replaced their standard length No40 combination wrenches with the futuristic 440, Facom are gradually replacing the 40L’s with the 440XL (below), but to date are only making metric, and only in a limited range (8 to 19mm I think). For sizes outside that range, or SAE, you have to get the 40L’s
119E779D-99F3-48C3-A014-2119427FE7DF.jpeg

The regular length 440’s are available in SAE, and I don’t doubt the XL range will be expanded over time, bu at present no SAE are available.

The USAG 285X is (as you observe) similar, but is currently only available in the same sizes.

Acquiring either is easy, simply order from the U.K. or Europe. Even with shipping, these will work out reasonably priced.
 
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GrayFlattop

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I really want MM and SAE sets of either the Facom 440LX or USAG 285X in those plastic folding holders, but sadly I think they only come in MM right? Even those I'm not sure where to get in the USA
Amazon carries them. The keyword to use for "SAE" wrenches would be "Imperial" if you are looking at European tools

Also - Mr. Worker often has good prices. It just takes 10 days or so to get. Inch sizes
 

mrjaw14

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maybe I'm not understanding their model numbering, those are the 440's not the 440XL with the anti-slip open end right?
 

gsanvi

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Had you been in Europe I might have pointed out some good deals, but I suspect the shipping kills ‘em.

For me, there’s no “buyers remorse” with Facom as for the most part it’s so reasonably priced.

I tend to buy the tools I want now. Even if I end up with duplicates, the old ones are always useful, but I know that’s easier said than done.
Please point out some of the good deals, for the rest of us who do live in Europe :).
 
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maybe I'm not understanding their model numbering, those are the 440's not the 440XL with the anti-slip open end right?
Facom 440 are the regular length, with smooth jaws but “OGV” (off corner) box end. These are available in all sizes. The older No.40 is discontinued.

Facom 440XL are long pattern, with anti slip open end but regular “OGV”box end. Only available in metric 8 to 19mm.

USAG 285X are similar to 440XL, but have an anti slip open end, and a toothed 6 point box end (and a brighter finish). They are also only available in metric 8 to 19.
 
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Please point out some of the good deals, for the rest of us who do live in Europe :).
:LOL::ROFLMAO::LOL:

How about these?

Facom Nano set for €117, with a couple of free wallets!8E3421C6-7595-40B8-B812-5A74EAAE4512.jpeg

Or the “black edition” nano set, at about €100.
EF1837B5-5936-4C08-A3A9-B656EC8E2531.jpeg

Both from Prime Tools in the U.K.

Prices excluding VAT.

I’m sure they will ship anywhere. Not sure about the Euro VAT. That might be payable up front, or on arrival.
 

gsanvi

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:LOL::ROFLMAO::LOL:

How about these?

Facom Nano set for €117, with a couple of free wallets!8E3421C6-7595-40B8-B812-5A74EAAE4512.jpeg

Or the “black edition” nano set, at about €100.
EF1837B5-5936-4C08-A3A9-B656EC8E2531.jpeg

Both from Prime Tools in the U.K.

Prices excluding VAT.

I’m sure they will ship anywhere. Not sure about the Euro VAT. That might be payable up front, or on arrival.
You've sold me on the leather wallets. But before I buy - what is the COO on those? :D
 

f121

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I really want MM and SAE sets of either the Facom 440LX or USAG 285X in those plastic folding holders, but sadly I think they only come in MM right? Even those I'm not sure where to get in the USA

I’ve got the regular length 440, they’re brilliant and the plastic holder works well.
 

F-22

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Strangely, other USAG tools seem to be of slightly higher quality their Facom counterparts, such as these 285X wrenches, compared to the Facom 440XL.
This is not quite true. I see them as meant for different tasks. The Facom 440XL work way better in tight corners due to the 12 point box end and they do not damage the surface of bolt heads due to the mild off corner engagement.

The few Facom 440XL wrenches I own are my go-to wrenches in 99% of cases. I own a set of USAG 285X and those are my go-to when taking off stuck fasteners, or especially if the fastener head is in poor condition (rusty). They are not that great for general use, 6 point box end can be really annoying to get into position and they do have those "teeth" that somewhat damage nice bolt heads.

So overall I'd say the Facom are more useful but both are absolutely top quality tools. And on torque test channel the Facom barely performed worse than the Mac/USAG design. I'd say that's one of the best (if not the best) general use wrench designs out there.
 
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This is not quite true. I see them as meant for different tasks. The Facom 440XL work way better in tight corners due to the 12 point box end and they do not damage the surface of bolt heads due to the mild off corner engagement.

The few Facom 440XL wrenches I own are my go-to wrenches in 99% of cases. I own a set of USAG 285X and those are my go-to when taking off stuck fasteners, or especially if the fastener head is in poor condition (rusty). They are not that great for general use, 6 point box end can be really annoying to get into position and they do have those "teeth" that somewhat damage nice bolt heads.

So overall I'd say the Facom are more useful but both are absolutely top quality tools. And on torque test channel the Facom barely performed worse than the Mac/USAG design. I'd say that's one of the best (if not the best) general use wrench designs out there.
I agree.

The 440XL is an excellent general purpose tool, the USAG 285X is more specialised.

I have some of each. I have a few 440XL’s in my road box, as I find the standard length 440’s don’t have enough leverage for automotive torques in the larger sizes.

And I’ve got a few USAG 285X’s as well, and will probably end up with pretty much a full set, for the reasons you outlined.

But.. the finish on the USAG 285X is definitely a bit more polished than the Facom’s, though I’m quite happy with both.

Either way, the critical thing here is that you don’t need a second mortgage to buy either, so you can buy a set of Facom, and a set of USAG (and in both lengths) for less than I would have to pay for one set of Snap On.

USAG 285X top, Facom 440 middle, and an original Facom No.40 bottom.
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F-22

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Yes the USAG is mirror polished. I do not think this is the difference between USAG and Facom. Rather, the USAG ones are taken off of the exact same product line as for the Mac tools - same broaching, same polish finish, and I assume they split them only at the engraving of the brand.

Facom must be separated right after forging, as they get their own broaching and futher finishing.

Might even be that they get forged blanks from some entirely different company, and then finish them in two different locations...
 

gsanvi

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The few Facom 440XL wrenches I own are my go-to wrenches in 99% of cases.
The 440XL is an excellent general purpose tool, the USAG 285X is more specialised.

By any chance, do you have experience with Stahlwille's Open Box 14 - their long combination wrenches? How do they compare to Facom 440XL? From what I've seen the wrenches from Facom are longer, and quite a bit cheaper.
 

F-22

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By any chance, do you have experience with Stahlwille's Open Box 14 - their long combination wrenches? How do they compare to Facom 440XL? From what I've seen the wrenches from Facom are longer, and quite a bit cheaper.
I think those do not have off-corner engagement at all. In my opinion, they're a bit outdated when talking about high end wrenches. Good tools but comparable to regular Facom long wrenches.

If the Facom 440XL is cheaper, I'd definitely go for that. Only plus with Stahlwille is that they're made in Germany, not in Asia.

I have some of the regular 13 series stahlwille (mainly garant branded), and only one "14" series which I like to use (I like this pattern of wrenches). They're not bad, but I just think the Germans are a bit behind the time with their designs today.
 
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Dave455

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By any chance, do you have experience with Stahlwille's Open Box 14 - their long combination wrenches? How do they compare to Facom 440XL? From what I've seen the wrenches from Facom are longer, and quite a bit cheaper.
Yes I do.

First off, the Stahlwille 14 has on offset box end.
828C0D5C-EBC6-4767-9105-BB8FD4FAA5CC.jpeg

Facom don’t really have a direct equivalent of this, but the nearest would be the No.41. The No.41‘s are a fraction shorter than the Stahlwille 14’s, but not by much. A 17mm No.41 is 16mm shorter than a No.14.
46CE13B5-5E3B-4313-A261-4BE99BE7F8F3.jpeg

The 440 / 440XL is really a completely different design. The box end is angled rather than offset, so it’s more like a Stahlwille 13 in some respects.

But, the box end also extends on one side, so as to access recessed fasteners. I think this is unique to this design. The 440 XL is longer than the Stahwille 14. Again, comparing 17mm’s, the 440XL is longer by 44mm, which is a fair bit.
216A5C8C-CE72-4AAE-94FF-EA9EBE77D9B1.jpeg

They all have off corner engagement on the box end. The 440 XL has it on the open end, and it’s an option on the Stahlwille 14. Personally, I can live without it on the open end.

I would be happy with any of these wrenches, but personally, I tend to use double box ends (with an offset) as my “go to”, so if I use a combination wrench I prefer it without an offset.
 

gsanvi

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First off, the Stahlwille 14 has on offset box end.

Thanks for pointing it out. I missed that. I don't have a Stahlwille dealer nearby who has tools in stock so you can actually feel them in your hand, hence the question. I am probably going to go with the Facom 440XLs then. I could really use the extra leverage. This weekend I was working on my sister's BMW, removing the oil pan. There was a lot of 10mm, 13mm, 16mm bolts I had to undo in the engine bay, only accessible with a wrench. I have the regular 440s and I needed to use a lot of force. So the extra length could help. I am going to go with Facom instead of USAG, the 12 point box end is much more versatile. Thanks for all the info, I really aprreciate it :).
 
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Caa311

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Yes I do.

First off, the Stahlwille 14 has on offset box end.
828C0D5C-EBC6-4767-9105-BB8FD4FAA5CC.jpeg

Facom don’t really have a direct equivalent of this, but the nearest would be the No.41. The No.41‘s are a fraction shorter than the Stahlwille 14’s, but not by much. A 17mm No.41 is 16mm shorter than a No.14.
46CE13B5-5E3B-4313-A261-4BE99BE7F8F3.jpeg

The 440 / 440XL is really a completely different design. The box end is angled rather than offset, so it’s more like a Stahlwille 13 in some respects.

But, the box end also extends on one side, so as to access recessed fasteners. I think this is unique to this design. The 440 XL is longer than the Stahwille 14. Again, comparing 17mm’s, the 440XL is longer by 44mm, which is a fair bit.
216A5C8C-CE72-4AAE-94FF-EA9EBE77D9B1.jpeg

They all have off corner engagement on the box end. The 440 XL has it on the open end, and it’s an option on the Stahlwille 14. Personally, I can live without it on the open end.

I would be happy with any of these wrenches, but personally, I tend to use double box ends (with an offset) as my “go to”, so if I use a combination wrench I prefer it without an offset.
I love Stahwille 14's
 
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Dave455

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Thanks for pointing it out. I missed that. I don't have a Stahlwille dealer nearby who has tools in stock so you can actually feel them in your hand, hence the question. I am probably going to go with the Facom 440XLs then. I could really use the extra leverage. This weekend I was working on my sister's BMW, removing the oil pan. There was a lot of 10mm, 13mm, 16mm bolts I had to undo in the engine bay, only accessible with a wrench. I have the regular 440s and I needed to use a lot of force. So the extra length could help. I am going to go with Facom instead of USAG, the 12 point box end is much more versatile. Thanks for all the info, I really aprreciate it :).
I don’t think you will go far wrong with the 440XL’s. And yes, I agree the Facom’s are better than the USAG for general use.

I have basically the same sizes, probably for the same reasons (possibly the same oil pan)!

With Stahlwille wrenches, a lot of the love does come down to the feel, especially if you are used to them. The designs feel quite modern too, although in reality they have changed little in years.

Below (top) is a Stahlwille wrench that belonged to my Father. It must date from the 1970’s. Below it is a modern one, and there is little difference.
890CFE67-79A1-4BC1-A93F-FFC300A31582.jpeg
 

F-22

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Facom's 441 XL OGVs are the USAG 285 X/SE equivalent. Not widely available yet. In fact, not a lot of info online about it.

Very cool, seems they do retain their matte finish on them though.
So these wrench patterns are here to stay. Hopefully Facom offers them in more sizes than USAG does. Mac does have bigger sizes but they're Mac priced...
 
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Dave455

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Facom's 441 XL OGVs are the USAG 285 X/SE equivalent. Not widely available yet. In fact, not a lot of info online about it.

Very interesting. I didn’t know about those. Thanks for posting.

It makes sense for both 12 point and 6 point to be available.
Very cool, seems they do retain their matte finish on them though.
So these wrench patterns are here to stay. Hopefully Facom offers them in more sizes than USAG does. Mac does have bigger sizes but they're Mac priced...
Facom have been relatively consistent with their finish for many years. Even when they moved production to Taiwan they generally retained the same finish, which was a polished chrome, but not as highly polished as some. Perhaps half way between a high polish and a satin.

The finish on the 440 / 440XL wrenches is slightly different. It seems to be a very bright chrome, thats been applied to a slightly textured surface. It gives a comparable level of “shine” to the previous generation of Facom wrenches, which is probably why they did it.

It’s a very different finish from the matte finish found on say Hazet wrenches, but I find it very practical.

1990’s (French made) No.40 combination wrench compared to new No.440.
263BB838-1EE5-4393-B7B1-51D91AAB274A.jpeg
 
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drtyler

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I don’t think you will go far wrong with the 440XL’s. And yes, I agree the Facom’s are better than the USAG for general use.
I bought the 8 wrench 440XL set a couple of years ago. They are used often. Really great feel, and sure would be nice if Facom would complete the skipped the sizes (at least the 12mm, 18mm, 21mm, and 22mm). I know that I could buy the USAG 285 X in those sizes, but I really don't like 6 point combo wrenches. Maybe I should fill in the holes with Hazet 600LG.
 
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Dave455

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I bought the 8 wrench 440XL set a couple of years ago. They are used often. Really great feel, and sure would be nice if Facom would complete the skipped the sizes (at least the 12mm, 18mm, 21mm, and 22mm). I know that I could buy the USAG 285 X in those sizes, but I really don't like 6 point combo wrenches. Maybe I should fill in the holes with Hazet 600LG.
I’m sure they will at some point.

The 440XL range is obviously a “work in progress” so I would hope fairly soon.

I’m surprised they don’t offer the 12 and 18 already. The older pattern 40LA is available in 21 and 22, but not the smaller sizes, so there is currently no “long” option at all for these sizes.

Considering that 12mm is a very common JIS size and 18 an ISO (and now DIN) metric size, it‘s a strange omission!
 

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Surely wrench manufacturing isn't too long of an endeavor seeing as they are basically just a rebrand of something already made. If they had complete sets of 440xl in mm and imperial id buy them today if the price was in line
 

CR888

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I bought the 8 wrench 440XL set a couple of years ago. They are used often. Really great feel, and sure would be nice if Facom would complete the skipped the sizes (at least the 12mm, 18mm, 21mm, and 22mm). I know that I could buy the USAG 285 X in those sizes, but I really don't like 6 point combo wrenches. Maybe I should fill in the holes with Hazet 600LG.
Are you talking about the extra long 440 series with 12pt box ends similar to the MAC precision torque ones? I've got some 440's under the Sidchrome brand, 6-19mm no skippies and an extended set to 32mm that DOES have skips it got 21/22/24/27/30/32. Mine I think are identical to the MAC in polished chrome (which *****)... But U might be able to get the sizes U need from MAC or from Sidchrome in Au.IMG_20240304_163641_4.jpgIMG_20240304_163710_4.jpg
 
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Dave455

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I want to order some Facom pliers, to test them out. Can't decide between the chrome comfort grip or the regular grip ones.

jpg_1200_b701661_180.jpg_187a_18g_ph01-hsh00158b377b2a42f7bcb67d4ce2e4437e.jpg
Tough call.

I have the chrome ones in my road box. They are the older style and I like the grips. Not too bulky (a lot of comfort grips are) and not too soft, so you can actually clean them.

I wanted the chrome for the corrosion resistance, which is useful in a road box.
3E3DF7F5-DEC4-4230-87F7-45E3D45996EB.jpeg

Not sure about the newer style. They’re probably comparable, and I know they are still the same pliers essentially. I don’t like where they have positioned the “spring”, but I know it’s removable.

The regular grips are superb. They’re a hard plastic so they are considerably more durable than typical vinyl dipped grips, and they are just a frac bigger, so they are comfortable to use without interfering with a normal grip.

They also accentuate the design of the pliers, which is quite modern, and very practical.

If you don’t need the chrome plating I’d probably go for the regular. If you’re bad at wiping down tools, or corrosion is an issue, then go for the chrome. Same applies If you like comfort grips!
 

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IMG_9626.jpeg

New 13mm and scissors. Enough has been said about the new wrenches - great quality, fit and finish. In my opinion hard to beat as a general purpose wrench.

The scissors seem great. Sharp and very strong. I really like they have a classic design.
 
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My first Facom 3/8 Drive. Also my first entirely metric set of tools.

I put this “set” together in the 1990’s by buying the individual tools, and then adding the superb little BT.4A box. I cut the liner myself from some foam I had lying around. I wanted to be able to carry this around, without the tools banging against each other.9FB304CC-27DC-47D9-9DDC-E0DF9D0B43A3.jpeg
39944D9E-1F4D-456C-A3B5-FC21156698C9.jpeg

The J155 ratchet was from Facom’s “aerospace” range, and lacked the fine tooth “palm control” mechanism that was becoming well known. It was, however, the only style they then produced with an all steel handle.
062A514C-7264-4AA8-915F-3B798E8C2F5F.jpeg

All the tools are French made, but featuring the “OGV” profile. The only mistake I made was to buy 12 point sockets. Within months of completing this set, I was working on Fords with butter soft fasteners, and 12 point simply wouldn’t work.

On the upside, the set got preserved in good condition, and I can actually use the 12 point sockets more now.
9AF721AD-2F9D-4F2F-9C01-C42B34BC5F75.jpeg
 

ultgar

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Facom/USAG combination wrenches (with 12pt box ends) - for standard length wrenches, there's the Facom 440 (USAG 285) series. For mid length, there's the Facom 440XL series (USAG only offers the 285X in this mid-length and this has a 6pt box for removal of compromised fasteners). For higher torque, there's the 40.LA extra long series (285L in USAG). The USAG version has sizes from 10mm to 18mm not available from Facom (I stock these 9 sizes for immediate shipment). See photo comparison (10mm size).10mmwrenches-comp1a.jpg
 
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Dave455

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Facom/USAG combination wrenches (with 12pt box ends) - for standard length wrenches, there's the Facom 440 (USAG 285) series. For mid length, there's the Facom 440XL series (USAG only offers the 285X in this mid-length and this has a 6pt box for removal of compromised fasteners). For higher torque, there's the 40.LA extra long series (285L in USAG). The USAG version has sizes from 10mm to 18mm not available from Facom (I stock these 9 sizes for immediate shipment). See photo comparison (10mm size).
Thanks for that ultgar.

Although I’m very familiar with Facom, I can’t say that with regard to USAG.

I also quite like the Facom 40.LA. I think they’re an under rated tool, but all the attention is on the 440XL and the “classic“ pattern tends to get forgotten.

I had no idea that the USAG version even existed, let alone in the smaller sizes.
 

ultgar

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Facom owns USAG. Most of the Facom ratchets and torque wrenches are made at the USAG factory in Gemonio, Italy. There's a lot of cross branding of SBD tools these days, especially between Facom and USAG. So much so, that I use both the Facom and USAG part numbers in most of my USAG product listings. The USAG listing is typically cheaper and the products carry a US warranty.
 
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Dave455

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Facom owns USAG. Most of the Facom ratchets and torque wrenches are made at the USAG factory in Gemonio, Italy. There's a lot of cross branding of SBD tools these days, especially between Facom and USAG. So much so, that I use both the Facom and USAG part numbers in most of my USAG product listings. The USAG listing is typically cheaper and the products carry a US warranty.
Yes, I was aware of the Facom / USAG connection, but I didn’t realise there was a USAG version of the Facom 40LA. I’m in the U.K. and USAG have never had much of a presence here. While I know the Facom catalogue fairly well, I have to look up USAG.

Here's the 440XL with some of the more obscure Facom combination wrenches.facom10mm-a.jpg
Oooh yes - the rare No.40 Ti.

I liked the No.40 wrench an awful lot. While the 440’s are very good, and excellent value, the No.40‘s were the first Facom tools I bought, and I have a soft spot for them.

I would have loved a 40 Ti, but I’ve never even seen one for real!

The 440 Fluo is typical Facom - they perceive a need and develop some tools to satisfy it. They might get added to the catalogue permanently, or discontinued. It’s one of the things that makes Facom tools a potential treasure trove for collectors.

I’ve seen quite a few of the non sparking tools. I think the wrench shown might be a No. 40 SR?

Thank you for sharing these rarities!
 
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Dave455

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One of my most regularly used Facom tools - U.46 oil filter wrench. This is the best pattern I’ve ever used. It was given to my Dad when he bought a car from a friend, and this was the only thing that shifted the oil filter.

They still make this tool. They also make another version with a plastic handle, but that doesn’t look anywhere near as good to me.
F66CA4E6-B09A-4D82-90B1-31510955A62A.jpeg
 
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