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The Facom Tools Thread.

F-22

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Very Cool, none of them appear to be Philips or otherwise, all straight blade of various lengths and width.
Phillips does not have the same issue with a flared-out head, so any would do. For flatheads, finding ones where the width of the tip is also the width of the complete shank is a lot harder, typically they all flare out like this:

s-l1200.jpg

A leftover from forging them, but it makes it hard to fit in some situations. These Facoms are ground to be circular all the way. My PB Swiss set is also like that.
 
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Qualitytools

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Phillips does not have the same issue with a flared-out head, so any would do. For flatheads, finding ones where the width of the tip is also the width of the complete shank is a lot harder, typically they all flare out like this:

s-l1200.jpg

A leftover from forging them, but it makes it hard to fit in some situations. These Facoms are ground to be circular all the way. My PB Swiss set is also like that.
I think this what is referred to as hollow ground when the the shank and the tip are the same size.
 

F-22

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I think this what is referred to as hollow ground when the the shank and the tip are the same size.
Actually not, hollow ground refers to the actual tip, like on the photo:

Screw+Driver+Types.jpg

Even the hollow ground "could" flare out in the same way, but I think due to the manufacturing process it almost never does that.

The Facom screwdrivers are actually not hollow ground, they're a standard taper all the way to the tip. The PB Swiss are hollow ground.
 

Qualitytools

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Actually not, hollow ground refers to the actual tip, like on the photo:

Screw+Driver+Types.jpg

Even the hollow ground "could" flare out in the same way, but I think due to the manufacturing process it almost never does that.

The Facom screwdrivers are actually not hollow ground, they're a standard taper all the way to the tip. The PB Swiss are hollow ground.
Thank you for the explanation, much appreciated
 

bkdc

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Very hopeful that Facom extends the 440XL size offerings as It is identical to the highly praised MAC Tools Precision Torque series of wrenches in the USA but at much lower than Tool Truck prices. Stanley-Black&Decker just needs to rebrand the existing line of MAC wrenches that are already in production. They are so comfortable. Made in Taiwan has come a long way. They are my favorite combination wrenches. Better than Snap On. Better than my Proto J1200RM-T500 set which basically are the same as the MAC Knucklesavers.
 
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Squankum

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Squankum

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Got myself a FACOM RL.Nano1. Please pardon the Spanish pliers, at least Spain is closer to France than Taiwan.

IMG_2161.jpg




IMG_2162.jpg



The FACOM, to my knowledge, all Taiwanese, alas, $99.50 on Amazon. But the box and ratchet are really nice. It's all quite nice, of course - Taiwan!
 
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Dave455

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Got myself a FACOM RL.Nano1. Please pardon the Spanish pliers, at least Spain is closer to France than Taiwan.

IMG_2161.jpg




IMG_2162.jpg



The FACOM, to my knowledge, all Taiwanese, alas, $99.50 on Amazon. But the box and ratchet are really nice. It's all quite nice, of course - Taiwan!
Facom offer those sets with several different ratchets.

The round head ratchet’s are made in Italy.
IMG_1426.jpeg

As are the “dustproof” ratchet’s.
IMG_1427.jpeg

Not sure about the Rotator ratchets. There was recently a slight design change so I’m suspecting Taiwan now.
IMG_1428.jpeg

The original “palm control” ratchet’s are Italian.
IMG_1429.jpeg

The ratchet you have
IMG_1430.jpeg

And it’s quick release cousin
IMG_1431.jpeg
are both made in Taiwan.

Your set is therefore predominantly made in Taiwan, except for the screwdriver style spinner handle, which will be made in France, as all Facom screwdrivers continue to be.

I think the general consensus around here is that Facom are one of the few companies who managed to outsource to Taiwan without any major deterioration in quality.

There are some tools that I notice are not quite as good, and some that are simply slightly different, but Facom took the trouble to have their own patterns of tool made in Taiwan, and to the same standards, rather than taking the lazy option of simply rebadging generic products.

Screwdrivers, pliers and hex keys, together with some more specialised tools, continue to be made in France.

Although generally, I do slightly prefer the French made tools, with regard to 1/4“ drive ratchets I’d opt for the style I preferred, irrespective of country of origin. It’s seldom I say that.

The “nano” sets are available with all the ratchet’s shown, and the boxes remain the best out there!
 
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Dave455

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I should add that I don’t think you can go far wrong with these sets. My own “Nano” set is probably my most used 1/4”drive.

The quality, even Taiwan made, is very high. Very close to Snap On (not quite as good I admit) but might even score slightly higher on consistency. (I’ve never received a “Friday afternoon” Facom)!

The content of the sets, with the included 1/4” bits, is exactly what you need on modern vehicles, and the fitted plastic boxes are just so well thought out that nothing else comes close.
 

Etchase

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Does anyone have modern Facom and Craftsman v-series sockets and bits who could describe any differences side by side?
 
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Dave455

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Didn't know the dust-proof may be made in Italy. Hmm....
Very under rated little ratchets I reckon.

The mechanism is beautifully smooth, there’s very little back drag, and the whole thing is obviously very high quality.

The only downside is that the direction change is a bit fiddly, and is difficult with oily or greasy fingers.

Also, the prices seem to be all over the place, certainly in the U.K. Paid sub £20 for mine, currently double that, but wait another month and who knows?

For some reason, Facom never really promoted these, and discontinued the 1/2” drive version before they really became well known.
IMG_1449.jpegIMG_1450.jpeg
 

Steve_P

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Very under rated little ratchets I reckon.

The mechanism is beautifully smooth, there’s very little back drag, and the whole thing is obviously very high quality.

The only downside is that the direction change is a bit fiddly, and is difficult with oily or greasy fingers.

Also, the prices seem to be all over the place, certainly in the U.K. Paid sub £20 for mine, currently double that, but wait another month and who knows?

For some reason, Facom never really promoted these, and discontinued the 1/2” drive version before they really became well known.
IMG_1449.jpeg


So, that changes direction via the ring on the handle???? I've been using tools for 40+ years, and have been on GJ for 14+ years, and I've never seen that before! Is that a recent design?

I don't have a need for that, but that definitely defines "different".
 
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Dave455

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So, that changes direction via the ring on the handle???? I've been using tools for 40+ years, and have been on GJ for 14+ years, and I've never seen that before! Is that a recent design?

I don't have a need for that, but that definitely defines "different".
Yes, that’s how it works.

They’ve been around for a few years. Can’t really say when they were introduced, but I can remember the nano sets having these ratchets as an option, maybe 5 or 6 years ago. Still an option now.

The 1/4“ drive are 80 tooth and the 1/2” drive 100 tooth, but sadly I think the latter are discontinued.

Nice things though.

Part numbers are R.181 for the 1/4 and S.181 for the 1/2. Might have both been called HP181 on introduction.
 
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F-22

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Yes, that’s how it works.

They’ve been around for a few years. Can’t really say when they were introduced, but I can remember the nano sets having these ratchets as an option, maybe 5 or 6 years ago. Still an option now.

The 1/4“ drive are 80 tooth and the 1/2” drive 100 tooth, but sadly I think the latter are discontinued.

Nice things though.

Part numbers are R.181 for the 1/4 and S.181 for the 1/2. Might have both been called HP181 on introduction.
I tried finding it in the USAG catalogue but I can't find neither the 1/4" nor the 1/2".

Interesting, I wonder what the story behind it is (why it was so short lived and unknown).
 

neophyte

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Very under rated little ratchets I reckon.

The mechanism is beautifully smooth, there’s very little back drag, and the whole thing is obviously very high quality.

The only downside is that the direction change is a bit fiddly, and is difficult with oily or greasy fingers.

Also, the prices seem to be all over the place, certainly in the U.K. Paid sub £20 for mine, currently double that, but wait another month and who knows?

For some reason, Facom never really promoted these, and discontinued the 1/2” drive version before they really became well known.
IMG_1449.jpegIMG_1450.jpeg
Bahco makes or used to make a ratchet with a similar direction switch.
The Bahco design might even predate the purchase of Bahco by Snap-On.
 

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Squankum

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I bought some FACOM wrenches. 440.JP14PB, $107.20, Amazon USA. (I just realized I didn't check Amazon UK or Fronce.)

7-24mm, skipping 9, 20, 21, 23. (Does anybody ever use a 23mm?!)

IMG_2217.jpg




IMG_2219.jpg



Oh good, I need more confort.

IMG_2221.jpg



More money than the similar Craftsman V-series wrench set/organizer, except two more, bigger wrenches and priced accordingly. My initial reaction: very comfy, round edges wherever you handle a wrench. Also, I'd heard their pattern was short but it turns out the largest-sized wrenches in the set are kind of short -- but the smallest-sized are a little long. Which is kind of backwards from what life might throw at you, I guess.

Organizer is pretty neat.


IMG_2214.jpg




IMG_2215.jpg




IMG_2216.jpg




Size comparisons, Craftsman Professional (long pattern), FACOM, Craftsman raised panel:

IMG_2212.jpg




IMG_2210.jpg




IMG_2209.jpg
 

autobon7

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I bought some FACOM wrenches. 440.JP14PB, $107.20, Amazon USA. (I just realized I didn't check Amazon UK or Fronce.)

7-24mm, skipping 9, 20, 21, 23. (Does anybody ever use a 23mm?!)

IMG_2217.jpg




IMG_2219.jpg



Oh good, I need more confort.

IMG_2221.jpg



More money than the similar Craftsman V-series wrench set/organizer, except two more, bigger wrenches and priced accordingly. My initial reaction: very comfy, round edges wherever you handle a wrench. Also, I'd heard their pattern was short but it turns out the largest-sized wrenches in the set are kind of short -- but the smallest-sized are a little long. Which is kind of backwards from what life might throw at you, I guess.

Organizer is pretty neat.


IMG_2214.jpg




IMG_2215.jpg




IMG_2216.jpg




Size comparisons, Craftsman Professional (long pattern), FACOM, Craftsman raised panel:

IMG_2212.jpg




IMG_2210.jpg




IMG_2209.jpg
Those 440s are some of the nicest wrenches I've ever laid a hand on. You will love them.
 

richfinn

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I bought some FACOM wrenches. 440.JP14PB, $107.20, Amazon USA. (I just realized I didn't check Amazon UK or Fronce.)

7-24mm, skipping 9, 20, 21, 23. (Does anybody ever use a 23mm?!)

IMG_2217.jpg




IMG_2219.jpg



Oh good, I need more confort.

IMG_2221.jpg



More money than the similar Craftsman V-series wrench set/organizer, except two more, bigger wrenches and priced accordingly. My initial reaction: very comfy, round edges wherever you handle a wrench. Also, I'd heard their pattern was short but it turns out the largest-sized wrenches in the set are kind of short -- but the smallest-sized are a little long. Which is kind of backwards from what life might throw at you, I guess.

Organizer is pretty neat.


IMG_2214.jpg




IMG_2215.jpg




IMG_2216.jpg




Size comparisons, Craftsman Professional (long pattern), FACOM, Craftsman raised panel:

IMG_2212.jpg




IMG_2210.jpg




IMG_2209.jpg

Well done, one of the best bargains in the business 👍
 

bkdc

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The FACOM 440XL.JP8 set is a clones of the Mac wrenches but has skips in the set. I have both the MACs and the FACOM set as a travel backup. I’m guessing the FACOM 40 series XL wrenches are eventually going to get phased out and replaced with a better selection of the 440XL’s to fill out the skips. The 440 wrenches are the same as the Craftsman V-series wrenches.

23mm is sometimes useful. Way more useful than 20mm.
 
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Dave455

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I bought some FACOM wrenches. 440.JP14PB, $107.20, Amazon USA. (I just realized I didn't check Amazon UK or Fronce.)

7-24mm, skipping 9, 20, 21, 23. (Does anybody ever use a 23mm?!)

IMG_2217.jpg




IMG_2219.jpg



Oh good, I need more confort.

IMG_2221.jpg



More money than the similar Craftsman V-series wrench set/organizer, except two more, bigger wrenches and priced accordingly. My initial reaction: very comfy, round edges wherever you handle a wrench. Also, I'd heard their pattern was short but it turns out the largest-sized wrenches in the set are kind of short -- but the smallest-sized are a little long. Which is kind of backwards from what life might throw at you, I guess.

Organizer is pretty neat.


IMG_2214.jpg




IMG_2215.jpg




IMG_2216.jpg




Size comparisons, Craftsman Professional (long pattern), FACOM, Craftsman raised panel:

IMG_2212.jpg




IMG_2210.jpg




IMG_2209.jpg
The 440 wrenches really are nice.

I wasn’t sure at first. I was very attached to my (French made) No.40 wrenches and didn’t really want changes, especially to a wrench obviously designed for minimal hand finishing.

However, as it turned out the 440’s are superb wrenches. The standard of manufacturing is incredibly high, as is the quality of the steel, the heat treatment, and the finishing. These were tools that changed my perception of Taiwanese manufacturing,

I bought a few to “fill some gaps” in my road box, and ended up with a complete set from 6 to 22mm (less 20). They are a pleasure to use and so far seem durable. The prices paid this side of the pond are incredibly reasonable too.

You’re right about the disparity in the lengths though. The smaller sizes are relatively long, the larger ones less so.

I’ve ended up adding a few 440 XL’s in the popular sizes too, and in all honesty only see more of these in my life.
The FACOM 440XL.JP8 set is a clones of the Mac wrenches but has skips in the set. I have both the MACs and the FACOM set as a travel backup. I’m guessing the FACOM 40 series XL wrenches are eventually going to get phased out and replaced with a better selection of the 440XL’s to fill out the skips. The 440 wrenches are the same as the Craftsman V-series wrenches.

23mm is sometimes useful. Way more useful than 20mm.
Other way around really.

The Facom 440 was the original design. I’m guessing it’s been available for the best part of 20 years, and was a Facom design. For a considerable period it was only available under the Facom name, though other brand names in the SBD group have subsequently followed.

The longer version, the 440XL, and the USAG / Proto / Mac equivalents are a newer design. Although they have been introduced almost simultaneously by all the brands the SBD group, the original design remains Facom.

I suspect that SBD know that longer wrenches tend to be preferred in the U.S. so were keen to market these as a Proto / Mac product as soon as feasible.

The long version of the Facom No.40 is the 40L (now the 40LA). The 40L has never been available in sizes smaller than 19mm, so it’s feasible that Facom will market the 440XL as a complement to the regular 440, but retain the 4OL. We can only guess.

The 40L is available up to 65mm and I can’t imagine the 440XL’s being produced that big.

Other designs of Facom wrench, such as the No.41 with the offset box end (slightly longer than the 440) remain available as well.

Brands such as Mac of course, don’t have the option of a 40L, hence the MAC version of the 440XL is available in a greater range of sizes.

23mm was a standard size in the (now obsolete) French metric standard. You find them on all manner of French equipment, and older French cars - Renault 16 comes to mind.
 
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Dave455

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Just in case any of our U.S. readers are thinking that there’s too much enthusiasm for these “foreign” tools, and wondering why we don’t just get Snap On, I’ll post the following.

A Snap On 24mm wrench currently costs nearly £100 in the U.K.
IMG_1467.jpeg

A Facom 440 costs less than £15…
IMG_1468.jpegIMG_1466.jpeg

Don’t get me wrong, I love Snap On tools, and I think the wrenches are about the best out there.

But… the prices have shot up over the last few years. Although I have a good number of Snap On wrenches, they were purchased at vastly reduced prices compared to today, and I doubt I would have purchased so many at the current price.

Even if money was no object, do I want to be working on some rusty fastener with a £100 wrench? Maybe dropping it on some concrete?

It’s a very different story with a £15 wrench. Especially if that wrench is a pleasure to use and still feels like a top quality item.
 

F-22

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Considering that the Facom 440 series metric combination wrench set is competitive with a roughly equivalent set of Tekton combination wrenches I don't see how one could argue in support of paying five times the price for Snap-on.
I assume most people who buy Snap On do so just because it is convenient for them regardless of cost.


On the other hand, it is also hard to find wrenches that can match the Facom 440 and the 440XL and 441XL in terms of performance - regardless of the cost. The fair price is just a cherry on top. If I remember correctly, the 440XL performed extremely good on the torque test channel considering the very mild anti-slip profile, and the 441XL (in Mac branding) pulled ahead to the top. All of these wrenches will generally strip the thread before slipping unless the nut is extremely rounded off, and that of course includes Snap On, but the Facom performs ever-so-slightly better while being sold for a fraction of the cost.
 

Etchase

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Snap on rarely finishes first in any of these objective tests. Their 5000 salesman do a good job at maintaining this “best” mythology, and astonishingly good at maintaining giant margins. They are good tools but so are Stanley brands and others regardless of price.
 
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Dave455

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Unfortunately, very few of these tests are ever comprehensive enough to include all the features that make a good wrench.

I’ve seen tests of the torque the wrench can take, usually (and unrealistically) the open end, and I’ve seen some crude dimensions recorded.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen an analysis of the steel used, the grain structure / orientation, the heat treatment, the quality of the broaching, the finishing, or the corrosion resistance. Much of this is difficult to measure, so only use over time reveals the true quality, and real world longevity.

Historically, Snap On wrenches perform superbly well in the real world, but that is at a price. In some instances that price may be worth it, in others it isn’t.

But if we are talking about”real world” usage, I have a feeling that the 440 (and it’s variants) are going to be a very solid performers too. Only time will tell, and I’m getting more use out of mine with each week that passes.

Thankfully, the cost of this experimentation isn’t great, and for that I’m thankful.
 

Steve_P

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I've always thought that Facom wrench design was **** AF. I mean as far as a wrench could be ****. I have the Craftsman metric set of them and they're just absolutely beautiful to look at, and quite functional per the testing.
 
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Dave455

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I've always thought that Facom wrench design was **** AF. I mean as far as a wrench could be ****. I have the Craftsman metric set of them and they're just absolutely beautiful to look at, and quite functional per the testing.
I can only agree. Facom wrenches have always been stylish. A bit of French “chic” if you like. Very different from the German tools, where the beauty lies in the simple functionality.

These No.31 slim wrenches are typical. I’m pretty sure they used to give these a pass on the surface grinder to ensure they were totally flat. The matte surface in the middle of the wrench adds contrast and accentuates the shape.
IMG_1471.jpeg

I think the 440 series continues this tradition, and I like the way the 440XL is a slightly different design, not just a longer version.

That’s attention to detail, which I like.

The Craftsman branded wrenches sound like as much of a bargain in the U.S. as the Facom are this side of the pond.
 

moemc

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Is there a more complete set of the 440XL pattern, or very close to it, sold under another brand in the family? But not the RBRT or any other sets with serrations.
 

Andres26tnt

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Is there a more complete set of the 440XL pattern, or very close to it, sold under another brand in the family? But not the RBRT or any other sets with serrations.

The "complete" set is only available through MAC or Sidchrome (not the bigger sizes 20mm thru 32). On both you can get 8mm to 19mm no skips. The only one that offers the bigger sizes is Mac. It's almost impossible to get the sidchrome without paying a premium for shipping if you can find an Australian company that ships out to the USA.
 
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