The HEXtension

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I like the features you built into it:
-Lip on 15mm piece to retain a wrench
-Relief on 12mm shank to reset the wrench

My only criticism is I think it would be helpful to mark the two portions with "12mm" and "15mm" as it would take the guess and check out of it. I don't think the fact the shanks are metric is a problem at all, especially with American cars using metric fasteners now.

 

[Hantke]

Well if you did (work on Japanese cars) the 12mm would be one of your most used sizes; it's the standard size for a M8 bolt head in JIS (basically, in Japanese, it's as commonly used as a 13mm is for those of us who grew up working on German stuff.) So it's not really a horribly obscure size to use.

12mm is top 5 on my most commonly used no problem, Mitsubishi + Suzuki motorcycle right now. I do get his point though, most people aren't going to use a 12mm in the heavy equipment world on a daily basis (though i didn't find it to be un-common either) and working on an LS1 or LS2 it wouldn't exactly be commonplace either. It is indeed a common enough size to be useable by the larger amount of mechanics though.

 

[Shaun_Logica]

I like the features you built into it:
-Lip on 15mm piece to retain a wrench
-Relief on 12mm shank to reset the wrench

My only criticism is I think it would be helpful to mark the two portions with "12mm" and "15mm" as it would take the guess and check out of it. I don't think the fact the shanks are metric is a problem at all, especially with American cars using metric fasteners now.

Already done. The shanks will be marked accordingly.

 

[Andrew_Logica]

Already done. The shanks will be marked accordingly.

Yup, check the technical illustration on our website.

http://logicatool.com/products.html

 

[sodbuster]

I will read thru this whole post later this evening........but, I was helping a neighbor and my "Craftsmen" LONG extension broke that I bought at an estate sale years back and exchanging it felt like giving up my first born........I almost asked the 19 year old clerk/kid if I could keep it after he showed me my 'life time exchange'.

Chris

Oh yea, Congrats on thinking/coming out with this product/idea.......I can think on my toes & hands how many times that I could have used this in a tight situation. If you wouldn't mind to put me on your PM list for when it becomes available. I normally just hang out on the HAMB, but I sneak over here when the wife's not looking......haha.

 

[Flathead Johnny]

nice idea....i'm waiting for a USA version

 

[Carla]

Hello, Shaun and Andrew,

'Good on you' for offering to make an 'off the shelf' tool which would save the time involved in making up a 'special' for some inconvenient 'bad wrench clearance' applications.

Your idea is a good one, which had been made up by some small tool company, back in the 1940's and '50's, but has been out of production for many years.

I've been retired for quite a few years, now, but I do remember, vividly, some of the special tools we had to make up for 'tight clearance' applications. I remember stamping 'Heath Robinson Patent' on a few of them, as a comment on their appearance, but they got a job done, which was all that mattered.

If I may, I'd like to offer a couple of thoughts.........Firstly, I'd tend to suspect that you are wasting your time and dollars with a patent application. The clearance cut on the hex may......just may.....be 'novel'....and, theoretically, you just might just 'squeak by' on 'novel combination', but there is a lot of 'prior art' in hex shank tooling.

If a large firm chooses to infringe your patent, its your responsibility to sue for infringement, and they will keep you in litigation for some great length of time, stall, stall stall, with various continuances or whatever other legal trickery, while the sell a cheap 'knock-off' of your design. (ask me how i know this.....its no joke)

My guess would be that simply offering the tool, as a best quality specialty item, in sites like this one, on the internet, will get you all the sales you can handle readily. Its quite possible that some tool-truck sellers will order a few to offer along with their regular lines, to be sure.

This one is an excellent specialty tool, actually, but it will have a relatively small market, amongst the relatively few mechanics who will appreciate what it will do for them.

I would be reasonably confident that the old Apex patents on hex shank tooling expired years ago, for whatever that's worth.

Secondly, any stainless is needlessly costly 'over-kill' for this part.

6150, with suitable heat-treat, is optimal, but, for this purpose, 4140, again with a suitable heat-treat, would be more than 'adequate'.

Put in a query on the 'practicalmachinist' internet board, and someone will refer you to a forging shop which can make up the blanks for you, at a realistic cost level. That part is about as easy a die-sinking job as may be imagined, so tooling cost should be low.

Remember that there are many wrench users who are accustomed to 'inch' fastener and wrench sizes, so humour them. It won't cost that much more to offer the tool in a choice of inch or metric dimensions.

Best of luck to you, you've a good design there.

cheers

Carla

 

[Andrew_Logica]

Carla, a big thanks for the well thought out and informative post. I think a lot of the ideas are ones we need to take into consideration with our design and production. I still waffle on the patent issue--some days I could care less, while other times it keeps me up nights.

Based on the positive response we've had, it should be no problem for us to offer SAE sizes on our tool. It would be a great jumping off point that would expand the line and give more options to more customers.

Again, a hearty thanks.

 

[wvrrcarknocker]

I've read this whole thread and have a couple thought's that I haven't seen put forward, so i'll take a stab at it. First off, I like the idea and if it saves my rear once, its worth having. I'm one of the die hard quality tool guys, with USA being at the very top of my list, but Germany, Canada, UK, Taiwan all set pretty well with me. I was sitting here thinking to myself that i'd love to buy one, but not a chinese one, but then I realized many others may be thinking the same thing, and if we all wait for US production, that it may never happen due to the sales you never made and a demand that was not known. My suggestion is this, offer some kind of a trade in/trade up credit to those who purchase some from your first runs, so that you get some start up capital and reviews, and those who want US can later trade in their chinese version and pay the difference and have a US made tool. I know some say there is no difference in COO, and you can argue it to me until you are blue in the face, but this is the only way I would buy a chinese one and I figured maybe a few others felt the same.
Dan

 

[Andrew_Logica]

Dan, that's a good strategy that intrigues me. We're going to offer something to the early adopters, thought it will probably come in the form of a discount rather than a trade up program, just because of the logistics involved. I find it feasible we could start a US production and shift over to selling those while offering the original China run at a steep discount.

 

[brit road garage]

give the guy a break, this is a great idea and iv been in situations where something like this is needed, when they are available i WILL be buying one also if your aiming for some distribution through the UK pm me

 

[Shaun_Logica]

Thanks for the responses guys. Andrew and I are hard at work on getting pricing and working with the manufacturer to get our product.

Remember to get this this point we are over a year in and many XXXX $ of our personal funds invested.

You guys are great and please continue on the PM list, we will be offering a limited number at a discount only to board members here.

P.S: On the patent info, many of the designs posted have expired you have a limited number of years to get your product in and sell it (17 years I believe now if you continue the patent).

 

[bluebolt]

I like the idea, it would not roll as easy either. SAE shank sizes would be preferable for larger sizes if you do 1/2" or 3/4" drive.

 

[rtole]

I posted in this early on. I dont remember what I said, but I found myself wanting these the other day at work. Ratchet would not fit, and I needed to use an extention. This would have been perfect. I prefer usa made tools, BUT I cant afford to fill my boxes with them. I have snap on wrenches for alignments, snap on ratchets, other than that, my collection is gearwrench and grey pneumatic. Well, of course I also have channelock stuff. As a mechanic we need so much ****........at least for me I cant spend as much as I like on tools. I buy stuff that works, if I can find usa for the same price and quality, I will get it everytime. So in my opinion get them to market, I am thinking if the price is reasonalbe., I am in.

 

[Andrew_Logica]

Good news, everyone!

We've got our preliminary pricing set, including the discounts that will be offered for people that want to get on the PM list.

Our first run includes 100 units each of the short and regular length HEXtension, so in order to be fair and offer a big thank you to everyone on this board, the first 50 people that have or will PM Shaun_Logica will get discounted pricing. Anything left inside that 50 will be available to anyone on the board at a discount, after which standard pricing will apply. The PM offer will remain open until our product arrives, which we estimate to be within four to six weeks.

For those of you who haven't had a chance to look, I've updated the Products page of our website, so have a look and see how the tool would benefit you.

HEXtension preliminary pricing:
Special PM price for paired set (standard and short) -- $49.95
Special PM price for HEXtension standard -- $29.95
Special PM price for HEXtension short -- $24.95

Normal price for paired set (standard and short) -- $59.95
Normal price for HEXtension standard -- $34.95
Normal price for HEXtension short -- $29.95

*Prices do not include shipping and handling.
** We'll only be accepting funds once we have product to ship; this is just to sign up for notification and special pricing.

Again, we greatly appreciate the interest everyone has shown, and we're blown away by the enthusiasm. The greatest thanks you could give us would be to tell anyone you know that may be interested about our product.

As always, many thanks to all of you.

 

[Shaun_Logica]

Hey Guys thanks for the support. I already have some on board and most are on the confirmed list for a pair. Please if you would like to be on the list send a confirmation PM with the subject line "Confirmed." It's going to help me keep everything straight in the list of PM's I have.

Again, you guys are great and we look forward to receiving stock.

 

[bushmechanic]

ps: more to the topic of the tool itself; you may want to look at a slightly more generous radius where the square drive meets the hex shaft. That is the main stress riser in the design. (as any ratchet manufacturer can attest. For catastrophic failure that's where it happens. See any of several manufactures vids where the ratchet is torque tested to failure...)

He's right about this. You need a smooth transition, right where the box section meets the perpendicular hex section plane, even if it will eat a millimeter or so of hex.

Check out pictures of 1/2 to 3/8 adapters to see how the transition is handled.

It's the one thing that caught my eye immediately. That said, the drawings on your site seem to mostly account for it. It may simply have not been visible in the picture.

Also, beveling the each end plane of the hex sections just a tiny bit would help prevent box wrenches becoming stuck when sliding them on and off, but that's the only other "problem" I see.

Even so, I'm in.

 

[n8n]

I might be interested in a 1/2" drive version, I honestly can't remember the last time I used a 3/8" socket.

 

[-Brent-]

I'm out at 1/4 that price.

Really? $12.50 for the pair, c'mon, that's just silly.

 

[Andrew_Logica]

Also, beveling the each end plane of the hex sections just a tiny bit would help prevent box wrenches becoming stuck when sliding them on and off, but that's the only other "problem" I see.

I'll do some more testing on these edges with box wrenches and see if I can get them to stick. Good suggestion, thanks.

 

[b974k]

I have had these 1/4" for years probably got them at a swap meet from a tool man Wish I had 3/8"

 

[Andrew_Logica]

I have had these 1/4" for years probably got them at a swap meet from a tool man Wish I had 3/8"

Nice. Look like they're inserts for a drill or a ratcheting screwdriver. Our HEXtension short might be just the ticket if you're looking for something similar size.

 

[Shaun_Logica]

Nice. Look like they're inserts for a drill or a ratcheting screwdriver. Our HEXtension short might be just the ticket if you're looking for something similar size.

Yep. I have seen those for drills usually. That has the quick release end for drill or screwdriver insert. Got a couple in the garage.

 

[Andrew_Logica]

Thanks everyone who has messaged for the special pricing. We're doing our best to get back to you within one day. We still have more at the discounted pricing we'd love to get into your hands.

 

[Shaun_Logica]

Got more PM's. Everyone that PMed me is on the list.

Thanks guys.

 

[Southernbuild]

Another random thought: 3/4" drive might be a better seller than expected, just because most of us don't have near the range of extension lengths, flex head ratchets, and swivel joints in 3/4", that we have in 1/4" 3/8" and 1/2". I'd also strongly recommend a SAE shank size for a 3/4" extension due to fasteners using 3/4" sockets are much more likely to be SAE sizes than the smaller fasteners.

 

[Shaun_Logica]

Another random thought: 3/4" drive might be a better seller than expected, just because most of us don't have near the range of extension lengths, flex head ratchets, and swivel joints in 3/4", that we have in 1/4" 3/8" and 1/2". I'd also strongly recommend a SAE shank size for a 3/4" extension due to fasteners using 3/4" sockets are much more likely to be SAE sizes than the smaller fasteners.

Great suggestion. We don't use 3/4" that often, however for the pro it would be a good addition to their arsenal against tough fasteners of the much beefier variety.

We will take this into consideration as we progress on the product line.

Again, thanks for the input, good thought.

 

[quattroJoe]

Another random thought: 3/4" drive might be a better seller than expected, just because most of us don't have near the range of extension lengths, flex head ratchets, and swivel joints in 3/4", that we have in 1/4" 3/8" and 1/2". I'd also strongly recommend a SAE shank size for a 3/4" extension due to fasteners using 3/4" sockets are much more likely to be SAE sizes than the smaller fasteners.

I can't imagine this tool being very useful in a 3/4 drive. The fasteners you'd use it on would be torqued down so much that you'd need a big azz wrench to break it free by hand. Where would one be able to fit a large enough wrench that a breaker bar or ratchet wouldn't fit? I'm sure someone will find such a scenario, but 3/8 still seems to be the sweet spot, followed by 1/2, in my opinion.

 

[-Brent-]

This thread already has more than ten thousand views as well as secured a tidy list of future customers.

All that said, I hope you guys throw a shirt or a sample (hell, a thank-you card) Ryan's way as a gesture of thanks. I've only met him once but have been a HAMBer long enough to know that he is "one of the good ones."

I think it's pretty cool he posted this up on the site's front page and it's gotten this much attention. It's another testament to the quality products Atomic Industries put out.

 

[Shaun_Logica]

This thread already has more than ten thousand views as well as secured a tidy list of future customers.

All that said, I hope you guys throw a shirt or a sample (hell, a thank-you card) Ryan's way as a gesture of thanks. I've only met him once but have been a HAMBer long enough to know that he is "one of the good ones."

I think it's pretty cool he posted this up on the site's front page and it's gotten this much attention. It's another testament to the quality products Atomic Industries put out.

Agreed. I send him a PM however haven't heard back. I would like to link our site as well to reference everyone over here to join up on the forum.

Ryan did an awesome service for us and we are very much appreciated to everyone on this forum.

Thanks!

 

[Southernbuild]

I can't imagine this tool being very useful in a 3/4 drive. The fasteners you'd use it on would be torqued down so much that you'd need a big azz wrench to break it free by hand. Where would one be able to fit a large enough wrench that a breaker bar or ratchet wouldn't fit? I'm sure someone will find such a scenario, but 3/8 still seems to be the sweet spot, followed by 1/2, in my opinion.

My thinking would be, it could easily be a location where an extension would work, but I just don't have the correct length extension; I've got 2 lengths extensions in 3/4", as opposed to 5 to 10 different lengths in the more common drive sizes.... But, you're probably right about the wrench not being long enough. Maybe a crowsfoot on a breaker bar type situation.

Or, maybe I'm thinking too far outside the box

 

[Andrew_Logica]

No, it's cool, Southern. Outside the box is where the fun happens.

By the way, I think I'm caught up on everyone that sent me a PM. If I missed anyone, please let me know.

 

[CJM8515]

Im in for that price for the matched pair. Ill send a pm, hopefully it isnt to late.

 

[Shaun_Logica]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the continued reservations. Everyone that has PMed me is on the list. It's a little tough to respond to everyone due to the restrictions on how many I can send. Unless you hear from me regarding a question you are on the list.

Thanks guys. Please continue to PM, and attach a reference e-mail if you would like confirmation on e-mail as well when we are ready.

Shaun

 

[Gmonkee]

I once resolved this 'access issue' with a bar of 1/2" keystock, a female drive 1/2" ratchet and a regular socket. The ratchet could be anywhere on the keystock and it did the trick.

As I have a few female drive ratchets around and it worked well. Really its not a stretch to go to a reversible ratchet wrench and a hex shaft at all.

Since then it has been tucked away unused but is ready if need be.

COO is not a problem with me if quality is where it should be. Price has to reflect COO some also. That is a difficult balancing act with a launch product for sure.

Shaun and Andrew, I wish you luck on this endeavor. The idea has merit. Now to market it effectively to a wider audience and protect it from copycats.

 

[RCStocker]

Back in the 60'[s I milled a square on a bunch of extensions. It never dawned on me to mill a hex. Very clever.
Great Idea that takes no time at all to do.

 

[Andrew_Logica]

I once resolved this 'access issue' with a bar of 1/2" keystock, a female drive 1/2" ratchet and a regular socket. The ratchet could be anywhere on the keystock and it did the trick.

As I have a few female drive ratchets around and it worked well. Really its not a stretch to go to a reversible ratchet wrench and a hex shaft at all.

Since then it has been tucked away unused but is ready if need be.

COO is not a problem with me if quality is where it should be. Price has to reflect COO some also. That is a difficult balancing act with a launch product for sure.

Shaun and Andrew, I wish you luck on this endeavor. The idea has merit. Now to market it effectively to a wider audience and protect it from copycats.

Thanks for your support, it really means a lot to us as we start out.

Back in the 60'[s I milled a square on a bunch of extensions. It never dawned on me to mill a hex. Very clever.
Great Idea that takes no time at all to do.

We're not always that clever, but sometimes it happens.

 

[ert01]

If you ever offer one in SAE sizing, I would be in for sure.

COO doesn't matter to me. A quality tool is what matters.

 

[Andrew_Logica]

Hey everyone, just an FYI: had a family emergency last night, so I will likely be unavailable over the next couple days. Shaun will do what he can to answer any questions. Thanks.

 

[Shaun_Logica]

Hey Guys,

To answer the SAE questions and PM's we are for now going to offer the metric size. We will look into offering a SAE variety in the future.

Thanks again for the quality input.