The Level Thread

[Trapps]

We've got threads dedicated to many various tools: screwdrivers, planes, hammers, vises and even vices.

I'm in the market for a new spirit level and did a couple of searches. I found a few specific threads out there, but I thought this might be a good place to begin a larger discussion about levels. Specifically spirit (bubble) levels of any brand and construction.

I have a 48" Johnson and a 24" Stanley, both at least 20 years old. The Stanley is out by degree or two.

Stabila and Starett make quality, highly rated products; I've used both, but never owned either. I have no complaints on the Johnson.

Does anyone have any experience with Sola? Seems to get good reviews and presents a modest savings compared to Stabila. I'm liking both the X-Pro and the Big Red.

What'cha got, whadaya like, whadaya dislike?

 

[tarbellb]

Stabila- well earned industry best


Sola is a good level that I would easily put in my bag.

Empire (usa made) is a excellent economical choice that ive purchased for abusive environments.

 

[pizza]

i bought a few stabila levels from az and azde (was the cheapest place i could find at the time).

when you search on azde, be aware that the model numbers might be different. i think i had the us and de stabila websites up so i could cross reference the models.

 

[ive]

Another vote for stabila

 

[signcrafter]

I have 7 or 8 stabile levels and most are 10 to 20 years old and have been dropped and abused on job sites and thrown in the truck and trailer over the years. I can still stack them all on top of each other and they all read perfectly level.

 

[never enuf time]

Stabila is the standard. I have a 2' sola , everything is perfectly fine with it. Only complaint is it doesn't have lines in the vial. Doesn't sound like a huge deal, but it is.
I bent my Stabila somehow, now have an empire. It works well, just not a Stabila.

Want to go old school get a Port Austin or Crick brass bound level.

 

[BBQguy]

I have Sola and Stabila.
I needed some more levels a few years ago beyond the beaters that have been around forever.
I came across the Sola on some really good pricing. No complaints. I recommend them if you are looking to save few bucks.
Bonus is that if you are on a job site with other guys tools, it's likely you will have the only red levels.

 

[quattro_sinko]

I bought a set of Levelution aluminum box levels 30+ years ago and intended for them to be the last set I ever bought, until I forgot to set the level bag in the truck and accidentally backed over them. They were the best levels I ever used. By the time that happened, they were NLA. I replaced the set with Stabila, and have been satisfied. Never had an issue with them

Recently an old apprentice I was training surprised me with a full set of Johnson Heavy Duty Box levels as a thank you a decade after we had worked together, and rounded out odd sizes with some Solas. They have been great levels, and similarly I have no complaints. The smaller size solas seem incredibly light, but quality.

Cost-wise, the Johnson levels are more budget friendly, as far as everyday use, I generally grab the Stabilas first. I have not noticed an appreciable difference in the accuracy between any of the brands.

(The big selling point to me for the Levelutions so long ago was that the barrel vials were adjustable, should they ever get bumped out of true. Sadly they couldn't accommodate the bends my Suburban put in them.)

 

[readhead]

I have had a set of Levelution levels since the eighties and they are the best levels I have ever owned. They are adjustable although I have never had to adjust them.

My biggest gripe about levels and their users is that very few people know how to check a level and just assume it is correct. I would only buy adjustable levels so that if I found it to be off I could tune it up and keep working. I don’t see many adjustable levels anymore which I think contributes to the assumption that your level is always correct.

When I was teaching at a welding school there was always some class time spent learning about levels and how to check them.

We were installing guard rails on an apartment job one time and we were consistently find out of plumb walls while measuring for the rails. The framers were still working on some of the other buildings and I managed to track down the plumb and line guy and asked if I could see his level. It was 3/8” out on a six foot level. The guys setting doors were suspicious also. The guy fessed up to his mistake and showed up the next day with a new level and proudly showed that he knew how to check it.

 

[MushCreek]

Wow- if a 24" level was out by 1 degree, that's nearly 7/16"! I'm in the habit of checking my levels from time to time, especially if I'm getting a reading that doesn't seem possible. I've never owned a good one, and the cheap ones seem to go out easily. I have a 6' HF special that got so bad I just use it as a straight edge. I do have a Starrett precision level that reads .0005" per foot, but it's a little fussy for carpentry.

 

[Dave455]

They’re a bit “left field” but an electrician friend uses these Ebisu levels. Made in Japan.

They seem to specialise in the smaller tools, but make a huge range, including different coloured vials and illuminated models.

 

[Trapps]

Thought I'd come back with a comment on my choices. I did go with a pair from Sola:



A 24" LSX24 X Pro:





And a 59" LSB 59 Big Red:





They have a nice feel, balanced and fairly light, lighter than I expected. Materials seem very good along with fit and finish.

The biggest benefit is how visible the vials are. I can easily read them without reading glasses on (I wear a 1.75), even in dim light.

The X Pro has a unique side profile that is easy to grip anywhere along the length providing a secure hold. The Big Red has normal grab handles and some ridges in the extrusion which make handling it easy as well. These are non magnetic versions.

The 24" was ~25% less than a comparable Stabila. The prices were closer on the 59", but the Sola was still cheaper than the Stabila by about 10%.

So far I'm very happy with both and would offer a strong recommendation.

 

[purplezr2]

What is the process for checking a level.

I assume it would be something like check something for level, then spin the level 180 degree and place in the same spot and see if it is level?

 

[Trapps]

What is the process for checking a level.

I assume it would be something like check something for level, then spin the level 180 degree and place in the same spot and see if it is level?

Exactly!

 

[KnurledNut]

Trapps, i remember when that video was released by Stabila.
Embarrassing as it must be for them, the procedure shown for checking plumb is actually incorrect.
And they have never changed the video or comments mentioning this.
For plumb, the level is kept with the bubbles where they are, but simply flipped over.
This allows each bubble to be checked against itself.
They show the whole level flipped end for end.
Doing that will check accuracy of the bubbles against the other.
Technically, if everything is within tolerance, it will all read correct.

 

[Ton ton]

Nice thread. I actually work with levels. Nice to see a construction tool thread on garage journal.

 

[dr_clyde]

I have several different makers of levels in my arsenal.

Stabila is my go to, they make very nice levels.

My dad gave me a set of Sands cast aluminum levels, they are also super nice levels.

I have some Johnson and Empire levels, they are seviceable.

My precision levels are Starrett, used for leveling machine tools and other sensitive equipment.

 

[drivesitfar]

Just saw this thread and even though I own more than a few I’d trade them all in for a couple that are exact and maybe a nice transit for large projects.
I’ve actually got an old 6 foot level I’ve use for most of my concrete forming work and it always agrees with my eyes (so as I get older and can’t see level I wonder if it will still read level then too.

 

[KnurledNut]

...

 

[eejack]

Anything over 18" I use Stabila levels, but under I have a range of checkpoint billet levels. As an electrician the smaller levels need to have good magnets and off level glasses ( 30 and 45 degrees minimum ) . For my small protractor I have a stabila but usually reach for my stanley fat max adjustable, the magnets are very good. I will have to look into the Ebisu levels mentioned above...

 

[PelicanPines]

Stabila here too... I have others for concrete/brick work... the Stabila is for finish trim etc. I have the 72"... I keep it in a special gun case.

 

[dwasifar]

I don't have high-end levels like most of you guys. I have two 48" Empire box levels, an old 24" Empire I-beam, an old 48" USA Craftsman, and a cheap Pittsburgh 72" I-beam, plus a couple of plastic Johnson 48" for outside work.

The Empire box levels are probably the nicest of them, but when I need a 48" I often find myself reaching for the Craftsman instead. It's lighter and less bulky, easier to handle. Not a high-end tool by any means, but it's still perfectly straight and dead accurate after all this time (I've probably had it 25 years). I envy you guys for the beautiful tools you're describing, but I can't make myself pay money to replace what I have when it still works perfectly.

I remember being a little kid, no more than about four or five, and "helping dad" on his projects. I was fascinated by the level's little vials and bubbles, and used to tilt it back and forth to see the bubbles move. One day I had an epiphany and suddenly understood the principle behind it. From then on I would play with the level by trying to hold it as steady as possible to keep the bubble centered. I still think it's a pretty nifty thing, as tools go.

 

[drivesitfar]

DW: if you liked holding the levels bubble perfect when you were young have you tried using the level on your iPhone (or maybe other cell phones have this too) at 0 degrees?

 

[ttpete]

Has anyone heard of Peerless? I have a 48" one, and it looks to be mahogany with brass edges.

 

[dwasifar]

Has anyone heard of Peerless? I have a 48" one, and it looks to be mahogany with brass edges.

That's a mason's level.

I had one like that, an American brand level made by Macklanburg-Duncan. M-D sold the American brand to Empire. When I had a warranty issue with it, I had to press Empire a little, but they eventually stepped up. They no longer had a mahogany level to replace it with, because they had discontinued that kind of product, but they gave me two 48" magnetic box levels instead, which is more than fair.

 

[Packard V8]

The title might be, "The Construction Level Thread"
and another, "The Machinist's Level Thread."
very different requirements and users.

jack vines

 

[todd_fuller]

I have a Sands level that I like a lot. It's not as $$$ as Stabila or Sola. Made in USA, cast aluminum. It's a more old-school design with the double vials.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

I probably have at least a dozen levels of varying age, length and quality. I have a pics of my magnetic 45 degree torpedo Stabila and my 4’ wood/brass Sands.
The Stabila is a stock photo, mine has a couple of nics in that nice yellow paint. But I did buy it at Epstein’s if that matters.
The Sands I have probably owned for easily 25 years. You’ll notice it still has most of the wrapper on it. Things like that drive my buddy nuts so Leave it on in his behalf. Like I said I have other levels so use it when I really need it and generally have another level that is more accessible.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

This is one that is not exactly on the level. I just happened to have these pics after a bit of searching. This Anglevel was made in Portland Oregon. Made of mahogany and probably at least 60 years old or so as I am guessing. It originally belonged to my FIL or my GF can’t remember which. Good grief the dementia is starting to set in. I’ll go with my FIL as he was more of. gadget man

 

[ooba tooba]

Probably not exactly what submitter had in mind, but I’ve collected a certain makers levels and inclinometers for a dozen years. Cast iron, brass and nickel. They date from the 1860s to the 1890s.

 

[dnschmidt]

Stabila, does anybody else even make levels?

 

[DHCrocks]

I have 2 Sola a 10" and 24". They are nice, very good quality levels. The outstanding thing about them is the vials. They are the easiest to see and read that I have come across. Even in low light you can see them.

 

[PelicanPines]

Stabila, does anybody else even make levels?

Anything else would be UN-Stabila at determining level

 

[macgee]

Stabila all the way, they're too good, too easily available and when cost comparing it to others. They're solid

I also have a digital 48" MD Smart Tool that seem to be popular & a 48" Stabila and much prefer my Stabila. I have an older non digital 24" that is well used and abused but still measuring well when checking it with my Starrett precision levels. The milled surface side was under .001" flat across the 24" when checking it on my surface plate which surprised me.


Edit: I just remembered I needed another 48" level for a job and found one at harbor freight, I checked it at the store and found a good one, it was leveling correctly and straight and the price was very good. A year later I pulled it out and tested it, it was bowed and waaay off (trash) and repurposed it as a wall cleat for a shelf.

Not familiar with Sola but could be a good one. I have a blue Empire, it's not bad but has slightly changed after several years; considering the cost difference, buying a Stabila is a better cost investment for the long run. All my levels are stored vertical, hung on a wall.

 

[nastorino]

Sorry to revive an old thread but I'm interested in replacing my old mismatched set of levels. Each level has atleast one loose vial on it making me think it is time to invest in stabila. I'm a DIY guy like the rest of you and will be doing a new renovation soon as my wife and I buy another semi-fixer upper and put in sweat equity.

I would prefer to buy the larger stabila level kit with all the various length. I don't believe the large kit is magnetic however. I think i'd like to have the magnets on all the sizes for various situations I might use them in.

Do the Type 196M levels have magnets (pics show they have small 3/4" ish circle magnets but not listed in the description) or is it only the Type 96M magnetic levels?

 

[mhejl]

Forget Stabila and their square vials with "double vision" reading off-angle.

I've replaced my (older) Stabilas 196s, except for the digital 24 and 48, with Sola Big Reds. Sola vials are much easier to read. If it wasn't for the cost, I'd replace the Stabila digitals with Sola, too - the Bluetooth is worthwhile (I have the short 10" digital Sola).

The only disadvantage of the Sola is only one surface is machined. The X-Pro, like the lesser Stabilas, aren't machined at all. I had one Stabila Type 80 I trashed because the powdercoat "drips" on the corners were so bad it rocked end-to-end. My short digital Sola isn't machined but the powdercoat is much cleaner on the edges.

I'd skip the magnetic for general remodeling, even though I have a couple. My 6' Sola is too heavy to stick to door hinges. My 2' Stabila digital is magnetic and annoying because it picks up junk. Leave the magnetics to torpedo length.

Another idea: Buy various lengths of whatever (cheap) and then add a single shorter, maybe 2', digital Sola to piggyback on the longer ones. The (loud) beep and bluetooth are a great help. The Stabilas beep louder but no bluetooth.

FWIW, the little Sola "Go" is a fail. The beep is so weak you can't hear it at all. Same with the Swanson orange torpedo.

 

[KnurledNut]

Do the Type 196M levels have magnets (pics show they have small 3/4" ish circle magnets but not listed in the description) or is it only the Type 96M magnetic levels?

If the model number is 386xx, its magnetic.
If the model number is 374xx, its not.

 

[nastorino]

If the model number is 386xx, its magnetic.
If the model number is 374xx, its not.

Thank you