"The Punch"
- Thread starter A_Pmech
- Start date
billymade
Well-known member
Forgive me if this sounds clueless but I have gotten some Snap-On punches lately.... they have a feature they call a "parabolic curve" on the striking end that according to them:
"The anvil end on heads on Snap-onpunches and chisels are machined to a modified parabolic curve. This design directs the striking force to the center of the tool head to allow slow metal displacement. It controls mushrooming to reduce chipping and splitting."
Do you think that a additional unique machining on the end of your tools would improve their durability or is this not needed with the type of metal you are using? From what I can see from the pics; yours have what looks to be a relatively sharp square end or possibly a slight rounding of the edge. I have been using these Snap-On punches lately and compared to my Craftsman the ends do not seem to be mushrooming much at all... then again, I'm sure the metal/heat treatment on the Snap-On's are much better then the Craftsman...
http://www1.snapon.com/display/DocMgmtDisplayFile.aspx?fileid=42916
"The anvil end on heads on Snap-onpunches and chisels are machined to a modified parabolic curve. This design directs the striking force to the center of the tool head to allow slow metal displacement. It controls mushrooming to reduce chipping and splitting."
Do you think that a additional unique machining on the end of your tools would improve their durability or is this not needed with the type of metal you are using? From what I can see from the pics; yours have what looks to be a relatively sharp square end or possibly a slight rounding of the edge. I have been using these Snap-On punches lately and compared to my Craftsman the ends do not seem to be mushrooming much at all... then again, I'm sure the metal/heat treatment on the Snap-On's are much better then the Craftsman...
http://www1.snapon.com/display/DocMgmtDisplayFile.aspx?fileid=42916
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senlow
Well-known member
I like it. You have a well designed punch system.
The punch holder is an elegant design.
I really like the multiple grooves on the OD of the punches. That is much better than knurling. I like knurling about as much as Merk likes holes in his tool handles.
I think that undersize pins are a good idea. It ***** when a punch gets stuck in a bore. I measured the pins of some of my punches. My Snap-ons are .002-.003 U/S, and My Starretts are .002-.010 U/S with the smallest pins being the least U/S.
Roll pin punches would be nice. As nissan_crawler said, they are critical for gunsmithing.
A couple of people have mentioned that a tapered striking end would be an improvement. I agree. I like the "modified parabolic curve" that Snap-on uses. I have approximated this on some of my other punches by machining a long taper on them, and then cutting a radius with a form tool.
Could you give us the material specs that you will be using?
The punch holder is an elegant design.
I really like the multiple grooves on the OD of the punches. That is much better than knurling. I like knurling about as much as Merk likes holes in his tool handles.
I think that undersize pins are a good idea. It ***** when a punch gets stuck in a bore. I measured the pins of some of my punches. My Snap-ons are .002-.003 U/S, and My Starretts are .002-.010 U/S with the smallest pins being the least U/S.
Roll pin punches would be nice. As nissan_crawler said, they are critical for gunsmithing.
A couple of people have mentioned that a tapered striking end would be an improvement. I agree. I like the "modified parabolic curve" that Snap-on uses. I have approximated this on some of my other punches by machining a long taper on them, and then cutting a radius with a form tool.
Could you give us the material specs that you will be using?
I think I can accommodate that.
nissan_crawler said:
If this small set sells well enough, bigger sizes up to 1/2" or 3/4" pin diameter are certainly possible!
nissan_crawler said:
I'm going to be talking to several steel suppliers at the beginning of this week about sourcing letter and number-sized stock. If I can source the stock, I can make a set of punches for aircraft use. Sounds like you're tired of using the shank of a dull drill to pop rivet heads too!
nissan_crawler said:
Thanks! You've brought up some good points, Nissan. I'll see what I can do.
chrislehr said:
Thanks, Chris.
I spent about a week looking for a way to build a better punch / handle system and another few days in the shop trying various things. I wanted something accurate, comfortable and easy to use. I think I've achieved that, although I'm adding some refinements due to input I've received in the thread.
billymade said:
Hi billymade,
While I left it off the prototype set so I could gage mushrooming of the anvil end, the finished punches will have a taper on the anvil end to reduce mushrooming.
Hi Senlow,
Thank you!
A "system" is how I look at the punches and the handle. I've always hated punch handles and never use one as a consequence. My handle, used in conjunction with the punches solves the downfalls of the generic "punch handle" in my eyes. It's going to change the way I use a pin punch for sure, these are just so much more pleasant to use.
As I replied to nissan_crawler above, undersize pins are in the works, just as soon as I can talk to my suppliers, as are roll pin punches.
I'm still testing the prototypes, so I haven't firmly decided on materials yet. Rest assured however, they will be of the highest quality and US-sourced.
EdCherry said:
Certainly, Ed!
BrokeEF said:
I can do that. I'm considering making up a set of The Hammer and The Punch(s) in a case together, with matching serial numbers.
OK, I think I've answered everybody's questions so far... Keep the ideas, suggestions and questions coming!
I have a bunch of stuff arriving in the mail this week for hammers and punches. It's going to take me some time to put all of this together, but rest assured I'm incorporating a number of ideas I've received into the finished punch set.
I have a bunch of stuff arriving in the mail this week for hammers and punches. It's going to take me some time to put all of this together, but rest assured I'm incorporating a number of ideas I've received into the finished punch set.
G1K
Well-known member
AP, Great idea. It sure beats dowel pins and a pair of pliers 
I can't wait to see what's next.
R
I can't wait to see what's next.
R
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tslabaugh
Well-known member
These are saweet! I want! 
Sloper0204
Well-known member
Very nice, thats what I will be hoping for.I can do that. I'm considering making up a set of The Hammer and The Punch(s) in a case together, with matching serial numbers.
Rnz520
Well-known member
While I loved The Hammer and thought it was beautiful I dont have much use for it in environment I am currently at. But this, this is golden in every sense of the word.
Great thinking, much better than the grip/punch set that matco and mac sell, those take up waaayyy too much space. Please announce a price for these, seriously considering spending some of my tax money on these.
Also the replaceable anvil idea is pretty good, mushroomed ends scare me. And while you are correct on the soft face hammer fact, lets face it, its just not possible all the time.
Great thinking, much better than the grip/punch set that matco and mac sell, those take up waaayyy too much space. Please announce a price for these, seriously considering spending some of my tax money on these.
Also the replaceable anvil idea is pretty good, mushroomed ends scare me. And while you are correct on the soft face hammer fact, lets face it, its just not possible all the time.
Keep
Well-known member
I just hope you have a good patent lawyer...
What would be really great would be a nice birds eye maple storage case. Just use a solid piece of stock, use a router to make your slots for the pin handle and punches and you have a set that can be passed on for generations.
Damn nice work. I could no way justify having a set (or the hammer) but dammit I want one, let us know when the "Set" will be offered.
What would be really great would be a nice birds eye maple storage case. Just use a solid piece of stock, use a router to make your slots for the pin handle and punches and you have a set that can be passed on for generations.
Damn nice work. I could no way justify having a set (or the hammer) but dammit I want one, let us know when the "Set" will be offered.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
Hey A Pmech....Just out of curiosity, what type of lathe do you have?
Stuey
Well-known member
That does sound like a nice case idea! I wonder if there are any woodworkers here that would be interested in creating such an accessory.
Keep
Well-known member
It would not be overly difficult. Hardest part would be the setup, but thats the case with anything. A plunge router would certainly make things easier.
It would have to be a unique wood. I have a couple nice pieces of spalted maple that would look nice against those.
Man this place is dangerous....
It would have to be a unique wood. I have a couple nice pieces of spalted maple that would look nice against those.
Man this place is dangerous....
Shadowdog500
Well-known member
If you have a mill you could probably make it yourself. The case may look good in machined aluminum.
Chris
Joelfke
Well-known member
damn they are awesome. Good thing theyre USA made or Merk would be pissed. All serious though you should be damn proud to make USA products as they are harder and harder to find. If you make cases and such I would love to see MADE IN USA or something similar on it
and a price point would be nice, as I'm short on cash but would happily save for a set
and a price point would be nice, as I'm short on cash but would happily save for a set
AP, Great idea. It sure beats dowel pins and a pair of pliers
I can't wait to see what's next.
R
Thanks! Yeah, they do.
tslabaugh said:
They're going to be available for order soon!
Rnz520 said:
Thanks!
I'll have pricing and ordering info up soon. I'm still waiting for some supplier call backs. Finding USA-made materials in the sizes and specifications I need takes a lot of phone calls.
Chreese said:
No problem! More pics coming down the pipe soon.
Keep said:
I have a case idea in mind.
I will be offering a set with both "The Hammer" and "The Punch" in the future, so stay tuned!
Hi Kevin,
It's a 1970 American Pacemaker:
Joelfke said:
LOL! Merk weighed in back on page 1. I've read enough of his posts to know what he'd say if it was "Assembled in USA with foreign components".
I am. It's getting hard to find the materials and tools to make a USA-made product too!
I'll let you know when I'm ready to take orders.
Sloper0204
Well-known member
Can't wait to see itI have a case idea in mind.
I will be offering a set with both "The Hammer" and "The Punch" in the future, so stay tuned!
BlindViper
Well-known member
No wonder the bandsaw thread at PM has hit a wall
No wonder the bandsaw thread at PM has hit a wall
Well, this is part of it...
Most of it has to do with the fact that I need to remove the table from the saw to align it. My forklift is about 2' too tall to fit though the door and it's been either 0F out or a steady cold rain. Neither weather has inspired my interest in keeping the door open long enough to do the job!
BlindViper
Well-known member
Did you get a new motor for the saw I think that was the last i remember.
I've been watching Ebay. I let a couple slip away, as I'm looking for a specific motor.
OK, I'm still refining the prototype set, but here's how they'll be packaged!
Most tool companies seem satisfied to put their expensive tools in cheap vinyl pouches, or maybe one of those cheesy blow-molded cases. Well, you know I'm not going to do that! It's like covering a new car with a black plastic tarp!
This is a Pelican case. I'm pretty sure you could drop one off a 4-story building and it would protect the tools. They're the choice of precision instrument makers, The lid is gasketed to make the case 100% water proof to a depth of 3' for 30 minutes and they float, in the unlikely event you have a "boating accident". Can you tell I like these things?
You'll notice there's extra room for spare pins of different types:
MADE IN THE USA, AS WITH EVERYTHING ELSE ABOUT "THE PUNCH"
Most tool companies seem satisfied to put their expensive tools in cheap vinyl pouches, or maybe one of those cheesy blow-molded cases. Well, you know I'm not going to do that! It's like covering a new car with a black plastic tarp!
This is a Pelican case. I'm pretty sure you could drop one off a 4-story building and it would protect the tools. They're the choice of precision instrument makers, The lid is gasketed to make the case 100% water proof to a depth of 3' for 30 minutes and they float, in the unlikely event you have a "boating accident". Can you tell I like these things?
You'll notice there's extra room for spare pins of different types:
MADE IN THE USA, AS WITH EVERYTHING ELSE ABOUT "THE PUNCH"
Joelfke
Well-known member
Awesome!! figure out your price and bill me haha
bushhawg73
Well-known member
Perfect, I am waiting to see the price.
Sloper0204
Well-known member
So what do I win for calling that one?
A suggestion: in place of the "Pelican 1150" sticker, could you etch "The Punch SN: ######" along with your logo or whatever on a piece of aluminum and epoxy it in that spot?MADE IN THE USA, AS WITH EVERYTHING ELSE ABOUT "THE PUNCH"
Something similar to what Bell & Ross affixes to the Pelican cases that their watches come in (mmmmmmmmmmm BR02
):
Jbullfrog
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Have you considered a reversable strait - roll pin punch in the same handle? Also, you could use the same handle for a long and short punch.
Along the line of using a screw-on anvil would be an extention set. I find alot of places where there isn't any room for your hand until you get a foot back from the pin hole. You could also look at an adapter for air hammer use.
I have a punch holder for my press that is end bored for the punch to slide up into with a bolt retainer. Most shop presses with interchangable tips are 1" bore, you could possible offer an adapter to hold the punches.
As for storage, what about a drilled block (like a letter punch set), or an ammunition box of some sort. The other suggestion would be an indexed punch rack similiar to what transfer punches are in.
Along the line of using a screw-on anvil would be an extention set. I find alot of places where there isn't any room for your hand until you get a foot back from the pin hole. You could also look at an adapter for air hammer use.
I have a punch holder for my press that is end bored for the punch to slide up into with a bolt retainer. Most shop presses with interchangable tips are 1" bore, you could possible offer an adapter to hold the punches.
As for storage, what about a drilled block (like a letter punch set), or an ammunition box of some sort. The other suggestion would be an indexed punch rack similiar to what transfer punches are in.
jwx
Well-known member
That looks like a very expensive case. I wonder how much it will raise the price of the kit?
Excellent tool solution! I can't imagine how many of my conventional punches are bent, especially in the smaller sizes. You make some good points in your video. A straight punch make all kinds of sense, and the handle sounds really convenient when it can be used.
Just looking at this idea led me to think of another . . . what would you think about making a pin holder that fits into an air hammer? Just thinking about it makes me want to make a prototype to see if it would work . . . the biggest problem for me is I think it would need to be hardened, and I don't have a way to harden it after machining.
Dale
Just looking at this idea led me to think of another . . . what would you think about making a pin holder that fits into an air hammer? Just thinking about it makes me want to make a prototype to see if it would work . . . the biggest problem for me is I think it would need to be hardened, and I don't have a way to harden it after machining.
Dale
irisservice
Well-known member
Tagging along..
OK guys, I promised I was going to release pricing on "The Punch" and begin accepting orders after I shipped the last group of hammers. Here it is!
What is "The Punch"?
"The Punch" is a precision pin punch set designed for aircraft work, engine building, firearms repair, instrument work and any other application where a precision-crafted pin punch would be an asset. "The Punch" set is intended to compliment The Hammer and should be used with an aluminum or brass hammer to significantly reduce the need to redress the anvil.
"The Punch" comes with a unique handle intended specifically for use with punches in the set. The handle uses a special clamping system which eliminates the problems inherent in standard screw-type punch handles, mainly marring up the punch body and loosening clamp screws while in-use.
What Makes "The Punch" Unique?
1) It offers replaceable pins, unlike traditional pin punches.
2) The pins are ground to significantly higher tolerances than traditional pin punches.
3) The pins are replaceable! and available in two lengths, both will be included in the set. Additional styles of pins are anticipated.
4) "The Punch" comes complete with a unique handle made from Aircraft Aluminum completely unlike any other punch handle available.
5) While not shown in the prototype photos, sets shipped will have a tapered anvil to prolong time between dressings.
Specifications:
Punch Body: 4130 Chromoly Steel
Punch Pins: Flame-hardened S7 Tool Steel on fractional sizes, flame-hardened O-1 tool steel on letter and number sizes.
Punch Handle: 6061 and 2024 Aircraft Aluminum
Pin Sizes, standard set: 1/16, 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, other sizes available upon request, priced slightly higher.
Pin Tolerance: +-.0003” on sizes up to .124”
+-.001” on sizes .125” and up
Warranty:
No warranty is expressed or implied, this is a made-to-order product.
Returns:
I will allow returns and a refund of the purchase price less shipping within ten days of your receiving "The Punch". It must be returned undamaged and unused, with all faces and in the original packaging. Return shipping is your responsibility.
To Order:
PM me here or email me at [email protected] with your name, address and order. Payment is required up-front to secure a production slot. I will provide you with my Paypal ID.
Payment is accepted by cashier's check or Paypal.
Pricing:
INTRODUCTORY OFFER
Though March 11th I'm offering free shipping on all orders of "The Punch" and master sets. After March 11th, shipping cost will be added to the order total. As always, this offer cannot be combined with any other offer.
I'm going to offer "The Punch" for sale in three different flavors:
Basic:
The basic set consists of sizes 1/16”, 1/8”, 3/16” and 1/4" with both long and short pins plus the punch handle. This set is $149.00
For reference, the total for a Snap-On PPC5A handle and PPCD70BK pin punch set is $151.50 as priced on February 28, 2010 at snap-on.com
With Case:
A fitted Pelican case is available for an extra $50, bringing the price of the cased set to $199.00
The Master Set
I’ve had a lot of inquiries for a master set consisting of "The Punch" and The Hammer. This set will consist of:
1) The Hammer including Aluminum, Steel, Brass and Nylon faces.
2) "The Punch" consisting of pin sizes 1/16”, 1/8”, 3/16” and 1/4" with both short and long pins and the handle.
3) A #1450 Pelican Case to contain the above.
This set is priced at $389. By buying the master set you'll save $29.39 over buying The Hammer and "The Punch" separately.
What is "The Punch"?
"The Punch" is a precision pin punch set designed for aircraft work, engine building, firearms repair, instrument work and any other application where a precision-crafted pin punch would be an asset. "The Punch" set is intended to compliment The Hammer and should be used with an aluminum or brass hammer to significantly reduce the need to redress the anvil.
"The Punch" comes with a unique handle intended specifically for use with punches in the set. The handle uses a special clamping system which eliminates the problems inherent in standard screw-type punch handles, mainly marring up the punch body and loosening clamp screws while in-use.
What Makes "The Punch" Unique?
1) It offers replaceable pins, unlike traditional pin punches.
2) The pins are ground to significantly higher tolerances than traditional pin punches.
3) The pins are replaceable! and available in two lengths, both will be included in the set. Additional styles of pins are anticipated.
4) "The Punch" comes complete with a unique handle made from Aircraft Aluminum completely unlike any other punch handle available.
5) While not shown in the prototype photos, sets shipped will have a tapered anvil to prolong time between dressings.
Specifications:
Punch Body: 4130 Chromoly Steel
Punch Pins: Flame-hardened S7 Tool Steel on fractional sizes, flame-hardened O-1 tool steel on letter and number sizes.
Punch Handle: 6061 and 2024 Aircraft Aluminum
Pin Sizes, standard set: 1/16, 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, other sizes available upon request, priced slightly higher.
Pin Tolerance: +-.0003” on sizes up to .124”
+-.001” on sizes .125” and up
Warranty:
No warranty is expressed or implied, this is a made-to-order product.
Returns:
I will allow returns and a refund of the purchase price less shipping within ten days of your receiving "The Punch". It must be returned undamaged and unused, with all faces and in the original packaging. Return shipping is your responsibility.
To Order:
PM me here or email me at [email protected] with your name, address and order. Payment is required up-front to secure a production slot. I will provide you with my Paypal ID.
Payment is accepted by cashier's check or Paypal.
Pricing:
INTRODUCTORY OFFER
Though March 11th I'm offering free shipping on all orders of "The Punch" and master sets. After March 11th, shipping cost will be added to the order total. As always, this offer cannot be combined with any other offer.
I'm going to offer "The Punch" for sale in three different flavors:
Basic:
The basic set consists of sizes 1/16”, 1/8”, 3/16” and 1/4" with both long and short pins plus the punch handle. This set is $149.00
For reference, the total for a Snap-On PPC5A handle and PPCD70BK pin punch set is $151.50 as priced on February 28, 2010 at snap-on.com
With Case:
A fitted Pelican case is available for an extra $50, bringing the price of the cased set to $199.00
The Master Set
I’ve had a lot of inquiries for a master set consisting of "The Punch" and The Hammer. This set will consist of:
1) The Hammer including Aluminum, Steel, Brass and Nylon faces.
2) "The Punch" consisting of pin sizes 1/16”, 1/8”, 3/16” and 1/4" with both short and long pins and the handle.
3) A #1450 Pelican Case to contain the above.
This set is priced at $389. By buying the master set you'll save $29.39 over buying The Hammer and "The Punch" separately.
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