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That SK Roto is nice!
The Ratchet Collection Thread
- Thread starter twertsy
- Start date
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I uploaded it to your site. I have no idea on year of manufacture though...
r_olson_06
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r_olson_06
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Wow what the odds. I just bought this at a pawnshop today. Bought fell on the floor when I seen it.And Blackhawk and family photo.
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It has EG stamped into it. Not sure it is owner's marks or not.
Anybody know the difference between the short version and the long version?
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d42jeep
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senlow
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Damn. You guys all ****! 
I've yet to find one of those ratcheting adaptors in any brand.
I guess Todd must find most of them before anyone else can!
I've yet to find one of those ratcheting adaptors in any brand.
I guess Todd must find most of them before anyone else can!
Found this guy last week for $6. Billings, 1/2" drive, I'm guessing 1950s, with some grinder finishing near the handle hole that almost obscured a forged-in "E" mark.
One of the pawls was shattered (I'd like to know how badly someone was abusing it to do that). Found a donor ratchet on eBay for a replacement pawl--so if anyone needs a complete parts ratchet, let me know.
This is one hefty hunk o' metal.
One of the pawls was shattered (I'd like to know how badly someone was abusing it to do that). Found a donor ratchet on eBay for a replacement pawl--so if anyone needs a complete parts ratchet, let me know.
This is one hefty hunk o' metal.
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d42jeep
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I'm not that up on Billings but I'm guessing that, like Barcalo, that E is simply a random forging mark. Snap-on, as far as I know, was the only one using E to designate 1944. Both Snap-on and Duro used G in 1945. Snap-on as a separate date code and Duro as the beginning of the part number.
-Don
-Don
BrettJ74
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I'm not even sure where this came from, I found it amongst my tools at work. Until I did some research I had no idea what it was. That is one of the neat things I like about these old tools is the stories behind them. 
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I agree with Don. Most likely the E is just a forge marking. Though, the E mark with the green paint does suggest military service, the chrome finish makes it an unlikely candidate for wartime. And the green color is more of a forest service green than an O.D. green.
Did Billings even make any of their own ratchets? That one looks very Armstrong to me.
Sunset_Z28
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My guess is the green paint was user-added at some later point. I do recall reading somewhere (AA, perhaps), that raised and forged-in markings on the handle indicate an older Billings ratchet than stamped-in markings like with mine. But, the all would tend to date from very late 40s to very early 60s.I agree with Don. Most likely the E is just a forge marking. Though, the E mark with the green paint does suggest military service, the chrome finish makes it an unlikely candidate for wartime. And the green color is more of a forest service green than an O.D. green.
Did Billings even make any of their own ratchets? That one looks very Armstrong to me.
Private Lugnutz
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In addition to all that, I'm pretty sure that Billings use of the Vitalloy brand, introduced in 1937, was confined to "Duo-Forged" DOE and DBE wrenches, until after the war. But even if they did start using it on drive tools, none of the wartime tools have that fancified logo, where the 'B' and 'S' are bigger than the 'illing' in between, and the 'V' and 'Y' are bigger than the 'itallo' in between. That appears on 1948 and later tools. And if that isn't enough to put it into the post-war era, I believe I see a little registered trademark symbol - (R) next to the Vitalloy name. While mfgrs were trademarking names for nearly a century, they weren't accompanied on products by a registration mark until 1946.
Private Lugnutz
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I see them from time to time, but I've never had the urge, probably because they're not in any WWII tool-sets, and that's where everything started for me. Even though I've expanded into picking things up from earlier eras, right or wrong, my concept of a tool-set is still heavily influenced by wartime tool-sets. By the way, ratcheting adaptors are redlined or stamped DISCONTINUED in most wartime catalogs, as far as I recall, for the same reason they weren't issue to any tool-sets. According to the WPB Limitation Order L-216 they were redundant (to the ratchet), and therefore considered an extravagance of steel.
wvrailroader
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The longer ones were earlier versions. I have one of the 15 tooth long versions. Here is an explanation of the differences: http://www.collectingsnapon.com/index.php?page=socket_sets/1-2inchdrive/HalfRatchetWow what the odds. I just bought this at a pawnshop today. Bought fell on the floor when I seen it.
It has EG stamped into it. Not sure it is owner's marks or not.
Anybody know the difference between the short version and the long version?
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Private Lugnutz
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Who made ACTION drive tools? Chrome. Looking 60s-ish to me. Are they US? Sorry no pic. I'm standing here at a flea looking at them. And I don't do the taptalkie thing. Rat is open style with a simple little squeeze on cap. They look decent. And I'm not really up on anything postwar. Anything special?
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Action brand was made by Thorsen/P&C. Part of the Plomb empire of tools.
Private Lugnutz
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Oh I am so turning around!
Ole Slewfoot
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according to AA
The trademark "Action Hot Forged Tools" was filed by Thorsen Manufacturing in 1961, with the first use listed as 1957.
Im not sure Id describe Thorsen as part of the empire, so much as an offshoot.
The trademark "Action Hot Forged Tools" was filed by Thorsen Manufacturing in 1961, with the first use listed as 1957.
Im not sure Id describe Thorsen as part of the empire, so much as an offshoot.
d42jeep
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Private Lugnutz
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After reading up on it last night, now that I have more than a passing interest! - I agree. In fact, I would not even go as far as "offshoot". That whole Plomb vis-à-vis P&C thing doesn't work. Not only was Thorsen formed decades before P&C was acquired by Plomb, its founder - Ned Boyd, no longer owned the company.
I am not a chrome guy, but I like this set. I'm fact, this is the first set of chromed tools I've bought other than the ones I use, and the mid 50's PENENS set!
I'll try to post a photo of the ratchet and the set soon. Busy weekend.
Private Lugnutz
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So here're some pics of the ratchet (77A) from that Thorsen ACTION 1/2-inch drive set I picked up at the flea market on Friday.
Open style, with 30 teeth, a simple thumb toggle switch, and a nifty spring steel clip protector that pops on and off for cleaning, lubing, etc.
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I know it’s a ratchet thread (not sure there even is a set thread…), but see thumbnails for pics of more of the tools.
Everything about this set was already calling me before I found out it was made by Thorsen. I really like the satin finish and the name and the fact that it was very complete (77A ratchet, 16A hinge handle, 42A sliding tee, 57A extension, 33A uni joint, and a dozen sockets from 512A 3/8” to 536A 1-1/8”, including a 21/ and 25/32” missing the 13/16” and 1”), with the 1” soon to be coming my way via bluebolt! Since my first name is Greg, even the "G" etched into some of the handles with an electric pencil doesn't bother me so much.
Apparently this was Thorsen’s economy line. Call me easy, because I think these tools are well-designed and well-built. The sliding tee has an interesting design for the stops on the beam, which is also a nice look. Maybe I am just easily impressed, because I really don’t buy vintage chrome tools. The newest set I own is an early 50’s PENENS. With this set I move all the way up into the late 50’s!
Does it look like the Thorsen top of the line or what?
Can anyone date it more precisely than 1957 and later?
Open style, with 30 teeth, a simple thumb toggle switch, and a nifty spring steel clip protector that pops on and off for cleaning, lubing, etc.
View media item 76217
View media item 76218
View media item 76219
View media item 76220
View media item 76221
View media item 76222
I know it’s a ratchet thread (not sure there even is a set thread…), but see thumbnails for pics of more of the tools.
Everything about this set was already calling me before I found out it was made by Thorsen. I really like the satin finish and the name and the fact that it was very complete (77A ratchet, 16A hinge handle, 42A sliding tee, 57A extension, 33A uni joint, and a dozen sockets from 512A 3/8” to 536A 1-1/8”, including a 21/ and 25/32” missing the 13/16” and 1”), with the 1” soon to be coming my way via bluebolt! Since my first name is Greg, even the "G" etched into some of the handles with an electric pencil doesn't bother me so much.
Apparently this was Thorsen’s economy line. Call me easy, because I think these tools are well-designed and well-built. The sliding tee has an interesting design for the stops on the beam, which is also a nice look. Maybe I am just easily impressed, because I really don’t buy vintage chrome tools. The newest set I own is an early 50’s PENENS. With this set I move all the way up into the late 50’s!
Does it look like the Thorsen top of the line or what?
Can anyone date it more precisely than 1957 and later?
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Rileysan
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So here're some pics of the ratchet (77A) from that Thorsen ACTION 1/2-inch drive set I picked up at the flea market on Friday.
Open style, with 30 teeth, a simple thumb toggle switch, and a nifty spring steel clip protector that pops on and off for cleaning, lubing, etc.
Everything about this set was already calling me before I found out it was made by Thorsen. I really like the satin finish and the name and the fact that it was very complete (77A ratchet, 16A hinge handle, 42A sliding tee, 57A extension, 33A uni joint, and a dozen sockets from 512A 3/8” to 536A 1-1/8”, including a 21/ and 25/32” missing the 13/16” and 1”), with the 1” soon to be coming my way via bluebolt! Since my first name is Greg, even the "G" etched into some of the handles with an electric pencil doesn't bother me so much.
Apparently this was Thorsen’s economy line. Call me easy, because I think these tools are well-designed and well-built. The sliding tee has an interesting design for the stops on the beam, which is also a nice look. Maybe I am just easily impressed, because I really don’t buy vintage chrome tools. The newest set I own is an early 50’s PENENS. With this set I move all the way up into the late 50’s!
Does it look like the Thorsen top of the line or what?
Can anyone date it more precisely than 1957 and later?
I was reading all the comments on the Action tool line, which led me to re-read the AA articles on Thorsen and P&C. For those who haven't read the articles, Thorsen was born out of a disagreement between the founders of P&C and their partner in charge of sales & distribution, Mr Ned Boyd - who took a couple of valuable P&C employees with him to his new company.
http://alloy-artifacts.org/peterson-carlborg.html
http://alloy-artifacts.org/thorsen-manufacturing.html
Both companies produced open-gear ratchets that were virtually identical, and I found an early variation of that ratchet in the 1939 P&C catalog.
So my question is:
Does anyone know who patented that open gear ratchet? I have always assumed it was a P&C design, but I have nothing to go on but conjecture.
Also, were there any lawsuits between the two companies over intellectual property?
Brian
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davethorik
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Lugz, you should try to get your hands on one of those in 1/4 drive, they're absolutely tiny. I have an Action in 1/4 and it is the only open gear ratchet I own.
Here's my newest contribution to this thread. Truth ratchets are not very common. The ones I do see are usually model R6 pear head with pin selector.
However today got this IR22. Googling turns up nothing. It is in very good shape, chrome is beautiful. It has the same basic configuration as the R6 pear heads, however the selector is stamped and the head is designed differently.
The ratchet is right at 11" OAL, the head is 2" wide and 5/8" thick. There is an oil hole on top of the head. 48 teeth.
Here's my newest contribution to this thread. Truth ratchets are not very common. The ones I do see are usually model R6 pear head with pin selector.
However today got this IR22. Googling turns up nothing. It is in very good shape, chrome is beautiful. It has the same basic configuration as the R6 pear heads, however the selector is stamped and the head is designed differently.
The ratchet is right at 11" OAL, the head is 2" wide and 5/8" thick. There is an oil hole on top of the head. 48 teeth.
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Private Lugnutz
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The butler (er, I mean the tool & die maker) did it!
I'd love to see a photo, dave.
Private Lugnutz
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How are those branded?
3baygarage
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Lugz, Action is basically Thorsen in disguise as other pointed out. Common to see the socketry and wrenches. I like the ratchets because I've found some really nasty condition ones and have had good luck getting them going again. Pretty resilient those and the Thorsen open gear. I was sad to see at the flea market recently an open Thorsen with a collapsed ball. No hope for that guy.
Davethorik that's a nice Truth find. There was a 3/8 version for sale on Ebay quite a while ago, and the seller showed that the gear was removable I don't see how or what would allow it. Can't be just interference fit.
Davethorik that's a nice Truth find. There was a 3/8 version for sale on Ebay quite a while ago, and the seller showed that the gear was removable I don't see how or what would allow it. Can't be just interference fit.
Rileysan
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Rileysan
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I also took photos of my 3/8" drive ratchets.
P&C 3209
Thorsen Model 77J
Another assumption I had made (right or wrong) was that both the P&C and Thorsen ratchets shown here were post-war. If that's the case, then one of two things would likely be true. 1) Thorsen copied the P&C design (with or without permission) or 2) With Misters Peterson & Carlborg out of the picture, Thorsen went to the new owners of P&C and asked them to make ratchets for Thorsen. Since there doesn't seem to be a lawsuit, it seems plausible there was a relationship between Thorsen and the Proto empire. Any thoughts?
Brian
P&C 3209
Thorsen Model 77J
Another assumption I had made (right or wrong) was that both the P&C and Thorsen ratchets shown here were post-war. If that's the case, then one of two things would likely be true. 1) Thorsen copied the P&C design (with or without permission) or 2) With Misters Peterson & Carlborg out of the picture, Thorsen went to the new owners of P&C and asked them to make ratchets for Thorsen. Since there doesn't seem to be a lawsuit, it seems plausible there was a relationship between Thorsen and the Proto empire. Any thoughts?
Brian
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Private Lugnutz
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Thanks, 3eeb. I am clearly a noob on these, but definitely a big fan. As far as I can tell, the only difference is the finish - and as a wartime guy, I actually prefer the satin look! Funny how even the model numbers are the same too, with an "A" suffix, no doubt signifying the "A" in ACTION! lol
davethorik
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I was wondering the same thing when I first got it, and also I noticed the drive plug and selector were on the same side (as often is seen with Plomb/Proto rats) so I knew it had to come apart.
As I sat there pondering this, flipping the selector back and forth, it stuck in the center position and the drive plug just fell out of the head! The pawl looks like a batman shape, and one of the wingtips is all that holds the drive plug in the head. Kind of a shoddy design, if you ask me...maybe why these are not common. It also has insanely high back drag. This one definitely will not be a user, it is purty enough for the collection though.
davethorik
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I see twertsy beat me to the punch, but I included some other 1/4 rats for scale, as well as a dime.
Head diameter:
Craftsman 43187 rhft at .965"
SK Wayne 40970 at .995"
Action 17MA at .835" (over dust cover, .775" without)
Wright 2400 at .799"
dime at .706"
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Private Lugnutz
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17MA. Midget Action. Love it.