I love stuff like this... I got anemail from Jesse Sotta the other day asking me to check out his mobile tool center. Essentially,he's just a guy like one of us with an ide...
To read the rest of this blog entry from The Garage Journal, click here.
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I love stuff like this... I got anemail from Jesse Sotta the other day asking me to check out his mobile tool center. Essentially,he's just a guy like one of us with an ide...
To read the rest of this blog entry from The Garage Journal, click here.
dirt_dobber
Well-known member
way cool tower - going to the link now...
Knyte Tyne
Well-known member
I'm sold... Genuinely. I wouldn't call it reinventing the wheel. Or Groundbreaking... Or a new Idea... but I think its fantastic! Its well packaged and looks like it would be at home in any workshop whether shed or Penthouse Man-cave...
I have a thing for heavy duty and that looks like it could survive a few generations. A few improvements to suggest though (listen someone was going to mod it first thing they get it regardless... there is always one!!!)
Looks like the Holders and racks are Bolted on... That could make quick change layouts Frustrating. A little lip on the shelves to stop things flying off if they slide easily on the steel.. (ok non slip mats I guess but I like that raw steel look) I guess its supposed to be a Tool Trolley not a Work Bench and its hard to judge how tall that is... I cant help think how nice two of those next two each other would work as saw horses if at the right height... Maybe some "Standard" layout Precision Clamping and Jig Holes on the Very top plate would increase versatility.
Their other products are pretty wicked as well... You overseas ladies and gents get all the fun things...
I have a thing for heavy duty and that looks like it could survive a few generations. A few improvements to suggest though (listen someone was going to mod it first thing they get it regardless... there is always one!!!)
Looks like the Holders and racks are Bolted on... That could make quick change layouts Frustrating. A little lip on the shelves to stop things flying off if they slide easily on the steel.. (ok non slip mats I guess but I like that raw steel look) I guess its supposed to be a Tool Trolley not a Work Bench and its hard to judge how tall that is... I cant help think how nice two of those next two each other would work as saw horses if at the right height... Maybe some "Standard" layout Precision Clamping and Jig Holes on the Very top plate would increase versatility.
Their other products are pretty wicked as well... You overseas ladies and gents get all the fun things...
NitroGarage
Well-known member
54" high, 3'x3'.
Kaizen
Well-known member
That think is huge looking at one picture. imagine having socket pegs on the sides right at eye level when you are on a stool and you could just turn and have all of the sockets smack in your face. oh I would buy it just for that. seems too thick of metal for just tool holders. looks like It was designed to hold heavy weight not just hand tools.
M_George
Well-known member
Great idea. I might make an adaptation of this for my gas forge.
CSRPenFab
Well-known member
$1,000??? Nice product, but seems a bit steep. I could build one hell of a tricked out HF cart for $1,000.
y'sguy
Well-known member
Hope he does well with the Tower idea. Wouldn't use it myself.
However, I like his Welder boom idea A LOT!
However, I like his Welder boom idea A LOT!
Mickey O
Well-known member
These "A-Frame" tool carts are great if you have the room and don't work with guys that help themselves to your tools. I've got the Snap-On version but I'm getting rid of them because of the previously mentioned negatives. I suppose a smaller version would be handy at the home garage.
WWheeler
Well-known member
Reminds me a little of a super-overly-expensive yet less-space-efficient spin-off of Mythbuster's Adam Savage's tool stands. The guy who says that drawers are where things go to die.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TWQAYfGxsPE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TWQAYfGxsPE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
matt_i
Well-known member
I would think a very nice setup would be to have drawers on the "open side" of the cart, one or both. But that's about the same as building some "wall panels" for an existing roller-box and then beefing up the casters (if thats needed, probably for lower-end boxes)
I would like this shadowboard concept for my "large" combination wrenches, say 7/8" up to 1-1/2". They are jammed in a drawer and usually have to take every single one out to get the one I need. Then they don't fit back the same efficiently random way and I have to spend several minutes fooling with them to find the sweet spot again.
I would like this shadowboard concept for my "large" combination wrenches, say 7/8" up to 1-1/2". They are jammed in a drawer and usually have to take every single one out to get the one I need. Then they don't fit back the same efficiently random way and I have to spend several minutes fooling with them to find the sweet spot again.
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Hey guys! Thanks for the awesome feedback on the Tool Tower. Believe me, we take everything to heart and will work to incorporate any good suggestions you guys send our way. We don't set out to "find" a product to sell. We are building stuff to use in our own shop and it occurred to us a few months ago that if we couldn't find it to buy ourselves that maybe someone else might be looking for the same thing we were and might not have the tools or time to build one themselves. I wanted to post a quick video where you could see our shop and how we are using a couple of the items some of you mentioned in the comments. Let us know what you think!
OP
Nice ideas...
bczygan
Well-known member
I'm not so hot on these universal solutions.
Prefer things tailored to particular uses. I like workstations that have all the associated tools right at hand.
It comes from my short order cooking days, when everything needed was within reach without taking more than one step, usually no steps needed.
And I don't like overbuilt things. Engineerings goal is to make things appropriate for use.
Show me attachments I can add to my Bridgeport, to hold the tools I need there.
Create a workstation specifically for soldering or buffing or grinding.
How about attachments for the horizontal bandsaw for marking and measuring tools.
Same for the drill press etc.
I will say it is a nice build job.
Bill
Prefer things tailored to particular uses. I like workstations that have all the associated tools right at hand.
It comes from my short order cooking days, when everything needed was within reach without taking more than one step, usually no steps needed.
And I don't like overbuilt things. Engineerings goal is to make things appropriate for use.
Show me attachments I can add to my Bridgeport, to hold the tools I need there.
Create a workstation specifically for soldering or buffing or grinding.
How about attachments for the horizontal bandsaw for marking and measuring tools.
Same for the drill press etc.
I will say it is a nice build job.
Bill
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Heavy Metal Doctor
Well-known member
I'm not feeling it either....my first thought was just that it's another hipster-DIY'ers shop accessory.
I'm actually speechless. The forum that tends to error on the side of overkill, the people who recommend living fifty feet from the switchyard of power plant so they can have reliable power, the same who say a 2" thick A36 steel plate for a work bench top is "alright, but could be thicker", and those who say if it's not American made it is inferior? Wow, I happen to appreciate the design. It may not work for my specific shop or be the right tool for my job. But I wish I had a reason to have on! Very nice find Guys!
This cracked me up! I don't think I've ever been called a hipster before. We actually build the Predator Hunting Trailers for FLEX Trailers for the most part. Besides cutting parts for other fab shops in the area on our plasmas we also build the Bad Idea products we made plus the Blaze Tower. You can check them out at www.blazetower.com to see something else that might be considered overkill.
The 3/16" could be overkill for a lot of applications. However, we wanted to make things as simple and strong as possible so that shipping and assembly is easy for people. Without getting into building tube frames, etc. to support the structure we found that 3/16" was perfect for the strength we were looking for. We also use domestic steel for everything, and that is a premium cost. But, we've used import steel for other projects before and it's simply not as flat or true to work with. It's amazing the difference between steel that is all supposedly the same specifications depending on what country it comes from.
You could probably get buy with 1/8" or something, but we are moving some big/heavy items around the shop and this thing will survive a bump from a piece of 2x3 tube where we've crumpled the Husky tool chests we have before with one accident that made them useless afterwards. We had to pry bar open a drawer that had a decent dent in the side before...
We honestly just build the things we want in our own shop and offer it to others that might want the same kind of thing. We've got a Harbor Freight tool cart, we've got several Husky tool carts that we bought on Black Friday deals. They're fine for what they are but I wouldn't go back to not having the Tool Tower around and plan to build some more for our own shop as soon as possible.
I agree and completely understand. I have worked in the machine tooling and metal fabrication industry and currently work in the nuclear power generation industry. I understand and have first hand experience with metallurgical anomoies and discontinuities in materials. You did what people do who want to use lean process for manufacturing by designing, fabricating, and using purpose built solutions for streamlining processes. If I had a use I would build something similiar but I am transioning my home shop to focus on woodworking. The immediate needs for all of us are different and that's what's great about this forum. It's a great resource for all of us to learn about alternative ways to do things. Good job and I wish you well.
Heavy Metal Doctor
Well-known member
I'm sure that's all true!
I'm sorry but that was just the first impression off the website / promo video for the cart. It just didn't exude "real working guy trying to get stuff done faster / more efficient" but rather more along the lines of my first post.
You will be happy to know that my opinion went up once I saw your You-Tube videos.
Nice clean shop! It is nice work. Does the cart get sold in kit form for the buyer to weld up? I could see investing a few bucks in the pre-cut parts and spending an hour or 2 welding it up / assembling it for a significant savings.
Kaizen
Well-known member
ok a little dramatic. I made a favorable comment with a socket suggestion.
saving on material and shipping costs would bring down the price. As he states above they overbuilt it to take abuse. I would prefer something lighter. For that thickness it should have a grinder or vice attached to it. just throwing out ideas. Not making disparaging remarks.
padroo
Well-known member
I can see where it would be nice for repetitive work.
That's a really nice cart and a cool idea, but it is way overpriced for what it is. I don't see much of a market for it. A lot of people on this forum that could use something like this, already have something like this or have the means to fabricate it themselves.
rcktsled
Well-known member
Yeah, I have to agree. I can't imagine anybody paying $1000 plus freight for it.
I could see a market for it in this form, or at least for the slotted panels and hangers.
I'm sure that's all true!
I'm sorry but that was just the first impression off the website / promo video for the cart. It just didn't exude "real working guy trying to get stuff done faster / more efficient" but rather more along the lines of my first post.
You will be happy to know that my opinion went up once I saw your You-Tube videos.
It is nice work. Does the cart get sold in kit form for the buyer to weld up? I could see investing a few bucks in the pre-cut parts and spending an hour or 2 welding it up / assembling it for a significant savings.
It actually assembles using a tab and slot design, so it's self supporting during assembly. You start with the base and add the sides. The Front/Rear pieces of three tabs on each side that fit into corresponding slots on the side pieces. We make what we call "shoulder tabs" that slide into a set of slots on the side pieces and then you bolt through the Front/Rear pieces to secure everything. I posted some pics to show. It sounds more complicated in writing that it actually is...
Attachments
nbpt100
Well-known member
This may have a good fit in a production facility where the types of tools needed are a few and frequently used. Sorta like a shadow board concept.
Also no good way to lock anything up.
Also no good way to lock anything up.
SALIV8
Well-known member
I like it. and for that, check out my sig. lol
I'll admit up front that pricing touches a nerve with me. I've been in business selling products that I've designed and built in different industries for many years, and whenever someone comments on pricing for anything I always have to wonder how they arrive at that conclusion without knowing what it cost to produce a product. It's a fair criticism to say it may be more money than you are willing to spend on it, but I believe it's unfair to make a blanket statement that something is "overpriced for what it is."
Since we are all friends here I'll let you behind the scenes on what it truly cost to produce one, and then you can fairly judge what the pricing structure is. We choose to use American steel for our products not just because we believe its the right thing to do, but it's a much better quality product. We buy roughly 12-15 tons of plate a month from the mill, so we aren't super high volume but we do get a much better price than a guy buying just one or two sheets will get. We also use stainless steel hardware and socket head screws for both appearance and ease of assembly, and we use quality polyurethane casters with brakes and swivel locks.
All that being said if you total the costs for plate steel, hardware, casters, finishing oil, plasma consumables, shipping boxes, and tape it costs us just under $400 to produce a single unit, NOT counting labor, shop overhead, etc. Average shipping cost is around $265. Add that together and you're sitting at $665 to deliver a Tool Tower to a customer direct from the guys that make it. Here's the tricky part: if you want to get a store like Home Depot, Menards, Northern Tool, or even Amazon to carry one of your products you have to know they will take 25-30% of whatever your selling price is, so that must be built into the price as well. Credit Card processing eats up an additional 2-3%. You also have to have some room in there to offer discounts and sales.
We cover some of the the shipping cost in our price so that we can offer flat rate $149 shipping on the Tower. As you imagine, we aren't selling hundreds of these a month so there are no economies of scale. These are 100% made in our shop in Kansas without the benefits of cheap labor or government incentives or tax breaks. If we sell a Tool Tower at the full retail price of $999 (which we don't often do - we sell most of our units when there are sales or free shipping promos) then our gross profit runs around $450 per unit BEFORE you've paid yourself, the electric bill, rent, taxes, etc. That's the best-case scenario too - if the tower is sold through a retailer then they get that 25-30% cut of the MSRP which means we now clear less than $200 per unit before the other expenses are taken out.
It's true there may not be a market for something like this. We like building things for our own use in our shop and we always keep the possibility of offering everything we make for sale. The other truth is that lots of people talk about "making America great again" and "buying American" or "shopping local" but when it comes time to do it they always balk at the price. We run a VERY lean operation in a part of the country where it's cheap to live. Ain't none of us getting rich here, let me tell you. It's just EXPENSIVE to build anything good in America. I know it's easy to think anyone could build something like this, and I know many on this forum could build something even better than we did, but it took a lot of creative design on a computer to make parts that would fit together precisely and repeatedly and several thousand dollars in CNC machine and plasma cutter to make one. How many guys have a 6'x12' plasma table laying around?
Here's another facet of rolling something like this out for sale: we deploy our own websites, write our own copy, do our own product photography, etc. There's really just two guys out of our small shop that do all of that so we can avoid paying anyone else for that kind of service. The cost of those kind of services that most people would have to pay someone else for aren't even factored into our cost or production since we do it ourselves.
I know this comes off like a rant, and it probably is by definition. It just hits me where I live when people comment on pricing when they don't appreciate what it takes to make something like this and deliver it to their door. Considering all of the things it takes from the idea and design to marketing and sale, to actual fabrication and shipping I think it's actually a good value for the money. Sure, it will ALWAYS be cheaper to build something yourself. That doesn't necessarily mean that someone trying to sell one to support their family is charging too much...
This post is more to vent about the overall state of things than to go after the original poster in any way. I just hear often from the same guy that might make $30/hour at a job complain about a price we have set on a product where we all make less than half of that.
But, we are all friends on the same team. God Bless us all!
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Well said. Unfortunately there are some who don't own and operate a business who will still insist that you are making too much off of each individual sale. Until they own a business and understand overhead, taxes and labor costs they won't understand this. Add about 40 employees to the mix and add on the costs of healthcare and benefit packages and it get's even crazier.
I think you have a nice product offering and I wish you well. I'm probably not going to be your customer; because I can build something like that in my own shop if I really needed it. I'm also the type that enjoys the design and build process.
Best of luck!
I think you have a nice product offering and I wish you well. I'm probably not going to be your customer; because I can build something like that in my own shop if I really needed it. I'm also the type that enjoys the design and build process.
Best of luck!
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budo55
Well-known member
Well said and thank you for pointing out the nuances of running your own business. I try and buy American when I can. Thanks for all you do!
Very well said badidea. I find myself in discussion with many around me that do not understand the hypocrisy of buying foreign when begging for work. I have family that own businesses that rant about losing manufacturing work but shop at harbor freight. Or when I bought my SawStop, INCRA tooling, or other American made products they balk at the price and tell me they can do it just as well using foreign products. There is a level of satisfaction I have when buying and supporting american products and locally owned small businesses. Luckily in one of my dearest hobbies, firearms and reloading, there are still great businesses such as L.E. Wilson or Dillion that I know when I order will be fully serviced by Americans and they will benefit. You may not make a million, your products may not be in everyone's household or shop, but you can sleep well at night knowing you are doing more for than the American dream than those balking at your price. Also, love the fire pit you posted about earlier. Showed the wife and we may have to buy one! Wish you and your business the best.
LS6 Tommy
Well-known member
Very nicely done. Reminds me of many different industrial and assembly line tool stands I've seen.
Tommy
Tommy
TK-421
Well-known member
My grandpa has something like that in his shop that he made. Has clamps on one of the shelves, wrenches hanging from screws, some aerosol cans on another shelf, lots of useful stuff when you need it, and I like that it can be moved easily.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
I know where I work many have a shadow board in similar dimensions. I want to say they may even cost more and are just 18 ga metal(but painted). I would be nice to have something as heavy as your carts as with so much heavy machinery about one gets hit every now and then.
As for pricing, I don't think anyone is saying its overpriced for what it is. I think their thinking is that they can get much more storage for the same money. As a hobbiest the time opening a drawer on a horror fright 44" box is not noticeable like it is in an assembly cell or production environment. Also many hobbiest here are not involved in such endeavors in their professional life.
I do love the way the brackets for the vise grip pliers/welding clamps work. I personally think the ones for cordless tools is pretty lousy in shape, at least from the pics I saw.
Brackets with a line of 1/4"(or 3/8/1/2") dowels welded/pressed in vertically would be nice for sockets.
As for pricing, I don't think anyone is saying its overpriced for what it is. I think their thinking is that they can get much more storage for the same money. As a hobbiest the time opening a drawer on a horror fright 44" box is not noticeable like it is in an assembly cell or production environment. Also many hobbiest here are not involved in such endeavors in their professional life.
I do love the way the brackets for the vise grip pliers/welding clamps work. I personally think the ones for cordless tools is pretty lousy in shape, at least from the pics I saw.
Brackets with a line of 1/4"(or 3/8/1/2") dowels welded/pressed in vertically would be nice for sockets.
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vettex2
Banned
I can see a use for it in a production environment but not for a home shop
Your market should be in lean manufacturing shops. You could probably double your price and have the same sales with more profit. Marketing to lean manufacturing consultants/conferences, possibly offering custom solutions, might help you get into the space.
Good luck
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Roger that, I don't know why I did not think of that. Go for it....
I sent you a pm. I wasn't criticizing the product and I understand the costs involved. Best of luck.
Ed