The value of a Makerspace

[Stuart in MN]

Here's a neat story in St. Paul: An elderly man who had to move with his wife into an assisted living facility couldn't bring his tools with him, so he donated them to a local tool library.

http://www.kare11.com/news/local/la...tsman-donates-his-tools-and-himself/433496004

He can still use them, and goes there nearly every day to help others.

 

[drummingpariah]

I love this kind of thing. Spaces like this give people an excuse to get started with making things on their own, and understanding the world around them. Too frequently, I see decent tools on Craigslist that have been neglected for years ... going for top dollar. I'd much, much rather see some kids putting things to use than for one person to have collected 6 drill presses that never get used.

It's incredibly satisfying to see so many people working on cool stuff at the space right now.

 

[slow]

great story. I wish I could find a place like that around here. $55 for a year would easily fit my budget. The ones I have found are 20 miles away and 55 or more a month.

 

[slackdaddy1]

I don't need the fellowship or to hangout
I don't need the space like an apartment dweller I live on 20 acres with a new 22x32 detached shop and basement shop. I wave welders, torches, press, etc. I even have a 3D printer.
BUT I do not have a 1/2 million dollar water jet cutter, a laser cutter, metal brakes, mill, lathe, etc.
There is a maker space 20 min from me, they have a couple computers, a band saw?, a welder and few other tools from the looks of it.

Then there is "Tech Shop" waterjet cutter, laser cutter, vinyl cutters, CAD stations, welding, casting, forging, the works. They are 150.00 a month (95.00 Vet and student over 18), $50.00 per additional family member. They have (paid classes) on CAD/CAM, water jet cutting, laser, welding, etc.
150.00 is kinda steep, but it gives you access to over a million dollars in equipment. Now if only they were not an hour away.

 

[drummingpariah]

I don't need the fellowship or to hangout
I don't need the space like an apartment dweller I live on 20 acres with a new 22x32 detached shop and basement shop. I wave welders, torches, press, etc. I even have a 3D printer.
BUT I do not have a 1/2 million dollar water jet cutter, a laser cutter, metal brakes, mill, lathe, etc.
There is a maker space 20 min from me, they have a couple computers, a band saw?, a welder and few other tools from the looks of it.

Then there is "Tech Shop" waterjet cutter, laser cutter, vinyl cutters, CAD stations, welding, casting, forging, the works. They are 150.00 a month (95.00 Vet and student over 18), $50.00 per additional family member. They have (paid classes) on CAD/CAM, water jet cutting, laser, welding, etc.
150.00 is kinda steep, but it gives you access to over a million dollars in equipment. Now if only they were not an hour away.

We're getting there, one step at a time. Tech shops and Maker spaces and Fab Labs are (to me, at least) the same thing. $150/mo is pretty steep for an individual, and I don't know any students who can afford another $100/mo bill. It's definitely nice to be able to share the burden of cost and maintenance with other like-minded folks, and I imagine that's how both of those organizations got started.

It sounds like the Makerspace is pretty young, and maybe they aren't seeking out donations appropriately. Organizing something like this takes a lot of work and a clear vision. Without those, you get with a few tools that don't constitute a complete workflow in a building nobody wants to visit.

 

[drummingpariah]

Our old impact gun was only outputting 30ft/lbs (on the highest setting), so I just accepted a new donation for the automotive workstation.

 

[drummingpariah]

I had to remove all the tools in our automotive toolbox to be transported into the bigger USGeneral toolbox this weekend. I decided this would be a good time to add a bit of identity to the plot, and cut some stickers for the large equipment.

While I had all the tools out, I gave them all a quick twice-over with some rattlecan red. This ensures that when they wander to another room/shop in the space, they're easily identified as automotive (red) tools. In a shared shop, it needs to be easy to identify what everything is, where it belongs, and whether it's ready for use or not.

Another new addition showed up too, we now have a 2250F general-use kiln. It can be used for pottery, non-ferrous metal casting, and tooling heat treatment. It'll take us a little while to get it all cleaned up, wired, and to give it sufficient cooling airflow for primetime use, but this is a pretty big deal.

 

[drummingpariah]

Another new arrival. We've been waiting to buy a milling machine for a long time, and this has minimal backlash in the table gears.

 

[rburke65]

Everyone has to keep in mind that all this....the building, maintenance, tools...GOOD TOOLS...are expensive. I know there is a belief, but nothing is free.

 

[polizei1]

Here's a tour of Artisans Asylum by Adam Savage. I would absolutely LOVE to have a facility like this close to me where I could take classes and learn skills. If you have one in your area, take advantage of it!

 

[drummingpariah]

Everyone has to keep in mind that all this....the building, maintenance, tools...GOOD TOOLS...are expensive. I know there is a belief, but nothing is free.

I have to agree. We all have a tendency to undervalue how much we've invested into our home shops. You know the, "I bought this tool chest for $10 at an estate sale, and it was packed full of end mills" stories people are so proud to share.

Here's a tour of Artisans Asylum by Adam Savage. I would absolutely LOVE to have a facility like this close to me where I could take classes and learn skills. If you have one in your area, take advantage of it!

I went down there a few times while Rob was the manager, and it's a fantastic (if pricey) space. They've really nailed down their workflows and it's relatively easy to get involved after signing up.

In other news, our Bridgeport has a fresh new level pad now, and it's in place and ready to be wired up. I'd like to see how other folks have solved the "clean up chips after every use" problem. Right now, we just have a shop vac nearby, but it isn't really convenient. I'm pushing back as hard as I can against using compressed air for any kind of machine tool cleaning, but I need to be able to propose something else that's convenient in its place.

 

[Locker537]

drummingpariah, the space in Nashua looks awesome! I'm going to have to check out an open house sometime soon!

I'm about 45 minutes away, which gives me a little hesitation to join as a member due to it being not very convenient to access. Do you know any other spaces in the area?

 

[rburke65]

I do not own a Bridgport but they had a few at work and the toolmakers would always use compressed air to blow out the chips and metal. Did a good job but the surrounding floor area was always littered withe the metal debris. A smooth concrete surface, broom or shop vac is all I can think of. Compressed air I would think necessary as there are lots of "hiding" spaces on a Bridgeport.

 

[JMartel]

Here's a giant brand new space that opened up on the west side of Puget Sound recently. The facility is pretty amazing and it's only $35/month. The wood shop alone is over 4000sqft.

http://bainbridgebarn.org/

Metal shop has a CNC mill, manual mill, 2 lathes, surface grinder, etc.

 

[MetalSlug]

Vacuum was all we were allowed to use when I took some machining classes since compressed air would cause a metal debris hazard to anyone nearby.

 

[drummingpariah]

Vacuum was all we were allowed to use when I took some machining classes since compressed air would cause a metal debris hazard to anyone nearby.

I can think of a few reasons not to use compressed air. Personal safety is number one, and tool safety is the second. Blowing compressed air can push chips into all the wrong nooks and crannies of machine tools.

Here's a giant brand new space that opened up on the west side of Puget Sound recently. The facility is pretty amazing and it's only $35/month. The wood shop alone is over 4000sqft.

http://bainbridgebarn.org/

Metal shop has a CNC mill, manual mill, 2 lathes, surface grinder, etc.

That's an incredible deal. That's what all Maker spaces strive toward.

drummingpariah, the space in Nashua looks awesome! I'm going to have to check out an open house sometime soon!

I'm about 45 minutes away, which gives me a little hesitation to join as a member due to it being not very convenient to access. Do you know any other spaces in the area?

The Nashua space is one of the better ones in the area. I assume you're South, but the only space that I know of personally is https://lowellmakes.com/ - I'm certain there are more around, let me know where you are and I'll do some asking around.

I do not own a Bridgport but they had a few at work and the toolmakers would always use compressed air to blow out the chips and metal. Did a good job but the surrounding floor area was always littered withe the metal debris. A smooth concrete surface, broom or shop vac is all I can think of. Compressed air I would think necessary as there are lots of "hiding" spaces on a Bridgeport.

I've always used a shop vac with stainless extrusion mesh wrapped around the air filter. It's worked well for me in the past, but no matter how much I try to protect the filters they still get chewed up.

 

[strength_and_power]

I was pretty excited to find a Makerspace very close to me. I will be checking it out on their open house night. Concept looks great and the ability to learn other processes is very appealing.


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[drummingpariah]

The Bridgeport is now set up, and we just had our first two training workshops for members.

We also picked up some sheet metal tools. We now have a 3-in-one combination tool and a heavy-duty sheet metal brake (that needs a couple of fingers repaired/adjusted).

Finally, we added an AC/DC TIG welder to our arsenal. I'll be giving an introductory workshop next weekend. Any suggestions for training novices would be greatly appreciated.

 

[matt_i]

Compressed air is a recipe for wedging chips behind the way wipers....which wears out the machines even faster.

No shop that respects the investment into their machines would allow compressed air as a method to "cleanup machinery".

Also consider that it's adding double the work because the "anywhere but here" distribution of swarf eventually has to be concentrated again to be disposed. With the shop vac the concentration is the first step and not the 2nd. Our shop uses a soft metal (al) tube of around 1-1/2" OD. Its cut on a bevel and then squashed in the vise until it just goes inside the 5/8" T-slot on the mill.

As far as Tig welding, I'd stick to DCEN first on steel. Its helpful to setup the work on the corner of a workbench, then someone can sit directly across from the demo welder. Wearing the same PPE as if they were actually welding, they can view the process unobstructed on something like a **** weld between two pieces of flat bar. When they get ready to go on their own, don't give them the filler rod at first, just a "fusion weld" moving the puddle around. Also many/most people will inherently want to sharpen the tungsten by putting the tapered surface of the cone against the wheel, instead of the correct method of pointing the tip into and tangential to the wheel and then twisting it to get the grinding striations pointed all down toward the vertex of the cone.

I would also shelve the "mini" back caps until they are actually needed. Otherwise people will be breaking good/long tungstens into a bunch of pieces. Imo keep them long until you need the short cap for clearance and then make a tungsten to fit.

My advice is worth what you paid for it...

 

[WhiskeyRanger]

We have a maker space nearby, but the cost is $100 a month, plus a $40 activation fee, plus at least 4 safety classes at $35 each required for all the equipment. Yeah, cheaper than buying all the stuff myself, but at that cost I'm not springing for it regardless.

Having said that, if they allow you to stop and restart the membership without all the extra fees, I would definitely join once I had the backlog of projects and free time to use it.

 

[Stuart in MN]

An article in the Minneapolis paper today about a new makerspace for kids: http://www.startribune.com/children...ng-next-month-in-south-minneapolis/441583043/ It's a good thing to start them out early, getting interested in learning how to make stuff.

 

[drummingpariah]

Compressed air is a recipe for wedging chips behind the way wipers....which wears out the machines even faster.

No shop that respects the investment into their machines would allow compressed air as a method to "cleanup machinery".

Also consider that it's adding double the work because the "anywhere but here" distribution of swarf eventually has to be concentrated again to be disposed. With the shop vac the concentration is the first step and not the 2nd. Our shop uses a soft metal (al) tube of around 1-1/2" OD. Its cut on a bevel and then squashed in the vise until it just goes inside the 5/8" T-slot on the mill.

As far as Tig welding, I'd stick to DCEN first on steel. Its helpful to setup the work on the corner of a workbench, then someone can sit directly across from the demo welder. Wearing the same PPE as if they were actually welding, they can view the process unobstructed on something like a **** weld between two pieces of flat bar. When they get ready to go on their own, don't give them the filler rod at first, just a "fusion weld" moving the puddle around. Also many/most people will inherently want to sharpen the tungsten by putting the tapered surface of the cone against the wheel, instead of the correct method of pointing the tip into and tangential to the wheel and then twisting it to get the grinding striations pointed all down toward the vertex of the cone.

I would also shelve the "mini" back caps until they are actually needed. Otherwise people will be breaking good/long tungstens into a bunch of pieces. Imo keep them long until you need the short cap for clearance and then make a tungsten to fit.

My advice is worth what you paid for it...

I'll start at the bottom. I only use the stubby back caps when I can't use a full-size back cap, because clearance is too tight to fit the entire torch in. I don't see them as advantageous otherwise.

My current plan (open to suggestions) is to pick up some old/ruined motorbike chains from a local shop tomorrow, and just toss them all in a solvent bath in my ultrasonic cleaner. That should get them clean enough to weld, and thick chains like that should be advantageous because they resist heat-soak. They're also easy to lay up, since they really only move on one plane.

I've caused myself a lot of hassle with the 'anywhere but here' method of cleaning things. Most of the time, that was just trying to clean the shop floor with compressed air (even with a respirator, it's awful). We have a few shop vacs on the machining equipment now, but I really like the idea of a crushed tube that fits into the t-slots.

We have a maker space nearby, but the cost is $100 a month, plus a $40 activation fee, plus at least 4 safety classes at $35 each required for all the equipment. Yeah, cheaper than buying all the stuff myself, but at that cost I'm not springing for it regardless.

Having said that, if they allow you to stop and restart the membership without all the extra fees, I would definitely join once I had the backlog of projects and free time to use it.

I strongly dislike activation fees. It's a barrier to entry, and if anything a Makerspace should encourage people to dive in and get started. I'm working on opening up our classes to everyone, and providing them to members for free (if you're a non-member, you can still come to the class, but you have to pay for it). That way, you're logged as knowing how to use a tool whether you've been a member or not.

 

[Flattie]

I would try to use something like this.
About me - degreed engineer, chemistry minor, math minor. Degrees don't mean **** to me so don't think I am bragging.. I sell parts for a living... and love it now. We have all had that rough boss experience. Mine made me change career paths that I miss dearly... but my coworkers and friends just don't get me... their perfect Saturday is golf, and getting hammered, at their country club.
Gear head to the hilt.
My best Saturday... hanging out w my dad and daughter in my 1948 Willys. Don't care if it's a gravel road, Moab Utah, or the rubicon trail. I spend 16 nights minimum a month not in my own bed for work... so home time to me is invaluable. I actually have a great marriage and wife.
But I can't weld worth a damn. I can stick two pieces of metal together but that isn't welding. I really want to learn mig and tig.

So how I would use this place... a few hours a week when I was home, I would be taught by someone who can teach. With my current life I can't sign up for a college course. I don't need to know how to weld a water proof vessel. I want to know how to properly fix a seat bracket on an old jeep, so I know my wife or kiddo is safe. And I hope this diatribe makes sense. I joined this forum because my wife knows I am a tool nut and told me about it. And yes, I am a tool polisher. At the end of each project I clean them well and put them up, where they belong. Because if I don't, I lose them... it's the world I live
In. I didn't make my world' rules. I just know me and follow them.

 

[drummingpariah]

Hey Flattie, these spaces are kind of a mixed bag. I can only speak for our space, but here's how we handle training:

Someone offers to teach a class or workshop, and schedules the training. Some workshops cost money, some are just informal collaborative tinker-fests. More than anything, it's a place to practice that frequently has competent people wandering around. Most of us aren't experts at anything in the shop, but we all have a pretty firm grasp on the fundamentals.

What I'd really recommend is dedicating some time to welding practice. Just get some stock that you can burn through for awhile, and spend a few hours trying to lay a good bead. Even if you aren't at a Makerspace with other helpful people dropping tips and tricks over your shoulder, the practice will help you to establish what's bad about your welds, and what questions you should be asking.

For what it's worth, I'd say MIG welding is the worst process to learn on. Gas is best, TIG is next, stick is next, and finally you have MIG. Learning is all about changing all the factors that you have control over and observing the results. MIG gives very little control, so it's easy to get to 'good enough' but it's difficult to understand what you did to get there.

 

[drummingpariah]

We've built out revision 1 of our spray booth now, but it doesn't have any filtration or exhaust built-in. For now, the plan is to use some brushless fans for intake/exhaust filtration, and a set of 4' LED shop lights covered in drop cloth to prevent overspray. Suggestions for improvement?

 

[Jhoff310]

I just found out we have one in my area. I am going to go check it out at one of their open houses. Their membership fees seem reasonable
www.bigfablab.com

 

[drummingpariah]

That space looks well planned out, with plenty of space to grow!