The vintage Blackhawk Thread

[twertsy]

At some point I need to fill these boards too.....

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

 

[humber2]

What was 4002 ?

Evidently the go for tool in that shop.

 

[twertsy]

What was 4002 ?

Evidently the go for tool in that shop.

It's a speeder style Valve grinder. Page 28 of the 1926 catalog: http://toolarchives.com/sites/default/files/Blackhawk1926-03092012110250.pdf

 

[beatcad]

At some point I need to fill these boards too.....

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

dang, bro. hit me up sometime. i may have some stuff to fill up some of those spaces on those red boards.

i'm in the mood to get rid of almost everything

 

[CRTDI]

My "Blackhawk Area" of the shop.

The red top box is simply outstanding... Gathering a nice jack selection as well..

Time to expand the shop to make room for more....

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Found a Blackhawk 24991 for my midget set. The head is very small on this thing. I have a pic with an sk for comparison. Has a date code 3, maybe 43?

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here are pics

 

[Oldtuleguy]

here's a fabulous set just sitting and waiting for a new owner:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMAZING-VI...-SET-COMPLETE-WITH-ORIGINAL-CASE/312082928557

Beautiful set, but has been repainted. Some of the paint can be seen on label in last pic, as well as scratches under the paint. Also as noted by lugz, unusual label.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Found a Blackhawk 24991 for my midget set. The head is very small on this thing. I have a pic with an sk for comparison. Has a date code 3, maybe 43?

Dang, that is small. It's almost like they used the same design principle from the 24994 obstruction offset handle, which has the barest possible amount of steel around the male drive stud. As for the "3" - has to be '43. They didn't make one in '33, as far as I know they only date-coded from 1938/9 to 1945, and the 1/4-inch ratchet in '53 was different (mini-Baldie) with a GW9999 part number.

Beautiful set, but has been repainted. Some of the paint can be seen on label in last pic, as well as scratches under the paint. Also as noted by lugz, unusual label.

Where you are seeing paint splotches on the decal, I am seeing scratches and wear in the decal showing the black paint under the label. It may have been re-painted around the label and the paint showing through the label scratches is original paint. The label being in such near-minty condition is consistent with the paint. The condition of a label and finish usually goes hand-in-hand. For whatever reason, the set number decal is no longer there.

 

[twertsy]

I'm pretty sure I see paint on the borders of the decal, particularly on the right edge.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Last pic, close up of label. Paint on borders of decal, and painted over scratches are visible. Still a nice set.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

That's the pic I was looking at. I don't see any black paint anywhere on the borders/edges of the decal. But again, it wouldn't surprise me if it was re-painted. It sure is in exceptional condition. But then again, so is that label, and the paint underneath the label showing through the few worn/scratches in the label is also black. If it was re-painted, those few worn/scratched areas in the label showing the black paint underneath the label ironically kind of helps with the illusion.

Too steep for me either way. I like my Blackhawk sets at flea market prices!

 

[d42jeep]

Did somebody say flea market prices? My buddy in LA sent these to me today. I guess that I'm suddenly a Blackhawk collector. Even though it's cracked, I really like the wooden box.
-Don

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Very cool set. Looks like the no.6. Mostly there too!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I guess that I'm suddenly a Blackhawk collector.

And you didn't even try!

 

[twertsy]

Did somebody say flea market prices? My buddy in LA sent these to me today. I guess that I'm suddenly a Blackhawk collector. Even though it's cracked, I really like the wooden box.
-Don

Don,
What are the markings on the sockets? Does that "big knuckle" universal have a Blackhawk mark?? I thinks that's a Mossberg U-joint.

 

[d42jeep]

Todd,
I've barely had a chance to look at the set and take pictures. It was almost dark by the time I opened the box. The logo on the sockets looks like this one from AA, I think. I think I saw a Hinsdale mark on the double female u-joint. I haven't closely looked at the big knuckle tool yet. I'll have more time later today. I don't see much in the way of sales to check out.
-Don

 

[Oldtuleguy]

There are a couple odd bits in there

 

[twertsy]

Todd,
I've barely had a chance to look at the set and take pictures. It was almost dark by the time I opened the box. The logo on the sockets looks like this one from AA, I think. I think I saw a Hinsdale mark on the double female u-joint. I haven't closely looked at the big knuckle tool yet. I'll have more time later today. I don't see much in the way of sales to check out.
-Don

I don't know what the heck that mark is on the "big knuckle" U..........??? I'm up to 1912 on TMs so I suspect I'll hit it soon.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I haven't closely looked at the big knuckle tool yet.

I don' know what the mark is - can you manage a better closer close-up, Don? - but it's not a Blackhawk piece. Blackhawk used a male/female set-up, and, they apparently didn't mark them. There's no way to attach that u-joint to the ratchet and nothing else to drive it with in that box. Several mfgrs were making double-male u-joints in that era for the internal drive on female pressed steel sockets. Including Mossberg, as Todd mentioned. EDIT: We've had this discussion about early Blackhawk u-joints before. Otg has a couple, one purchased loose, now residing in his No. 8 set, and one purchased in his No. 10 set. Link here.

There are a couple odd bits in there

Besides the female/female u-joint that Don said might be a Hinsdale, the only other odd piece I see is the male-male extension. It may be a Blackhawk extension that lost its female socket end. As you know they were only press-fit on in that era. If it is, it looks to be the same length (probably 8") extension as the one that is there and complete, which would be odd.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

There's no way to attach that u-joint to the ratchet and nothing else to drive it with in that box.

I take this back. There is something else in that box to connect the big knuckle male/male universal joint with the ratchet - the other universal joint! Even though neither of them are Blackhawk pieces, it wouldn't surprise me if they've been in that box for a long time, and since it was last used. I am picturing some ancient mechanic with a walrus moustache, a Choo-Choo Charlie hat, and an improvisational 'there's more than one way to skin this cat' look on his face replacing the lost male-female Blackhawk universal with a double-jointed female-female Hinsdale and mystery male-male universal joint hook up.

 

[d42jeep]

I took a few minutes and braved the rain to further evaluate the Blackhawk set. There were a few missing sockets, for sure the 9/16" and 13/16" and a couple of extra Hinsdale tools. The first picture is the logo on the Blackhawk extension. The next is the logo on most of the sockets (upside down). The next shot is an extra Varco socket. The Hinsdale extension and u-joint are next. The male u-joint is unmarked. I had a Hinsdale 1/2" square socket for the Hinsdale extension and the last picture is Lugz' floppy socket special.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The male u-joint is unmarked.

?? In your earlier photo (in your hand), it has a mark on the other side that looks like an "A" inside two concentric circles with the outer circle having hash marks coming out of it, like short sunbeams, on the bottom of the entire logo.

...and the last picture is Lugz' floppy socket special.

There ya go! Voi-friggin-la!

This will be a fun early woodbox era Blackhawk set (as Otg identified it, a No. 6) to complete. It had one 8-inch extension. You could just stick with that very similar Hinsdale extension, or find a Blackhawk with the female end bell still press-fit on it. The Blackhawk uni joint might not be so easy. I've only seen three - and Otg has two of them!

 

[3baygarage]

I was wondering if the u-joint was Ray. Doesn’t look like it compared to pics.

Does look Mossberg like Twertsy said.

I dont want to derail this thread too much but I’ll leave this here Don.. Fourcycle gave you a head start:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=320736

 

[CRTDI]

Found a Blackhawk 24991 for my midget set. The head is very small on this thing. I have a pic with an sk for comparison. Has a date code 3, maybe 43?

I can't tell from your pics, but if your handle design is like the one in this E-bay link, it could be from 1953. I thinking that it might be possible for the 24991 and the GW model series ratchets being available in the same time period.


https://m.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Blac...227126?hash=item2cd0e4f5f6:g:axEAAOSwxo9aqo6G

 

[d42jeep]

?? In your earlier photo (in your hand), it has a mark on the other side that looks like an "A" inside two concentric circles with the outer circle having hash marks coming out of it, like short sunbeams, on the bottom of the entire logo.


There ya go! Voi-friggin-la!

This will be a fun early woodbox era Blackhawk set (as Otg identified it, a No. 6) to complete. It had one 8-inch extension. You could just stick with that very similar Hinsdale extension, or find a Blackhawk with the female end bell still press-fit on it. The Blackhawk uni joint might not be so easy. I've only seen three - and Otg has two of them!

The u-joint doesn't have any manufacturers markings. The marks in the picture are from the knurling process during assembly. It looks like I'm missing the elusive original u-joint, a sliding Tee, the 13/16", 19/32" and the 9/16" socket. The extension, although rough, is included. Here are the original sockets that came with the set.
-Don

 

[notlob]

I think this is the pic Lugz is talking about - looks like an Illuminati symbol to me. (paging Dan Brown)

 

[d42jeep]

I believe that is just the knurling mark not struck quite squarely. I spent quite a bit of time cleaning and looking at that u-Joint through the magnifiers. I'm pretty sure that there are no actual identifying marks.
By the way, have you seen any sales you are thinking of checking out tomorrow or Saturday? I can't find anything worthwhile.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I think this is the pic Lugz is talking about - looks like an Illuminati symbol to me. (paging Dan Brown)

Haha! Yeah, that's it. And yes, Illuminati. Or Aztec or Anasazi.

I believe that is just the knurling mark not struck quite squarely.

Very strange. I could be wrong, but I don't think Mossberg or any other mfgr's cast universal joints were knurled, Don. Is that where the pin is?

 

[d42jeep]

Lugz,
Added photos above.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Lugz,
Added photos above.

DOH! :tard: Okay, not a logo, Illuminati or otherwise. Those are artifacts from seating the pin.

EDIT: (Psst! Don't tell, Todd. Let's let him see if he can find that Illuminati trademark...)

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I can't tell from your pics, but if your handle design is like the one in this E-bay link, it could be from 1953. I thinking that it might be possible for the 24991 and the GW model series ratchets being available in the same time period.


https://m.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Blac...6? Pic hash=item2cd0e4f5f6:g:axEAAOSwxo9aqo6G

Here is a pic from other side

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It's 1943. The 24991 in the eBay ad is 1947 to 1952. As far as I know, Blackhawk wasn't date coding in 1953, and, theoretically, even if they were, all the handles, including the ratchets (except the Nuggets), and that includes the 24991, had two grooves around the handle at the top and three grooves around the handle at the bottom in 1947.

I thinking that it might be possible for the 24991 and the GW model series ratchets being available in the same time period.

Why would they do that? I'm not challenging you. I'm just curious why you think that. The GW series looked very similar to the 24xxx series, with the same grooves. But why would they be selling two similar sets of 1/4-inch drive tools with two different model numbers t the same time? I can see if they were deluxe and economy or something like that. But were talking about a company that was slow to even offer a full set of midget drive tools to begin with. EDIT: And, the 24xxx series is not included in the 1953 catalog.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

So we will call it a 43

 

[notlob]

DOH! :tard: Okay, not a logo, Illuminati or otherwise. Those are artifacts from seating the pin.

The Illuminati move in mysterious ways....

 

[notlob]

I took a few minutes and braved the rain...

LOL - CA weather can be SO horrific. I bet you wish you were at FLL!

=============

There were a few missing sockets, for sure the 9/16" and 13/16" and a couple of extra Hinsdale tools.

I have an extra 13/16, but only one 9/16. I could possibly be convinced to part with them for the proper Plombcentive.

Here's a pic of the majority of my very early Blackhawk sockets. The aluminum roasting tray was an extremely rare early option....

 

[CRTDI]

It's 1943. The 24991 in the eBay ad is 1947 to 1952. As far as I know, Blackhawk wasn't date coding in 1953, and, theoretically, even if they were, all the handles, including the ratchets (except the Nuggets), and that includes the 24991, had two grooves around the handle at the top and three grooves around the handle at the bottom in 1947.


Why would they do that? I'm not challenging you. I'm just curious why you think that. The GW series looked very similar to the 24xxx series, with the same grooves. But why would they be selling two similar sets of 1/4-inch drive tools with two different model numbers t the same time? I can see if they were deluxe and economy or something like that. But were talking about a company that was slow to even offer a full set of midget drive tools to begin with. EDIT: And, the 24xxx series is not included in the 1953 catalog.

I’m certainly not the know it all expert of all things pertaining to vintage Blackhawk tools, but as you know there are always inconsistencies with the offerings in published catalogs, both with the illustrations and printed text. However, for us looking into the past, we enivetably draw conclusions based on the physical evidence of the tool and available printed matter which includes somewhat unreliable catalog evidence.

My conclusion, not necessarily fact: Older production “previous model no.” ratchets still being sold off until supplies depleted or the model number changed mid production. Go back and take a look at the ratchet in the E-bay link, it’s actually pretty interesting. It appears to have a 1950 date code with 24991 model number stamp as well as a faint GW9999 stamp...: As for no date codes in 1953, I don’t know for sure. I do have some 3/8” drive pieces that I believe to be post 1953 but they could also possibly be from the 40s.

 

[twertsy]

I’m certainly not the know it all expert of all things pertaining to vintage Blackhawk tools, but as you know there are always inconsistencies with the offerings in published catalogs, both with the illustrations and printed text. However, for us looking into the past, we enivetably draw conclusions based on the physical evidence of the tool and available printed matter which includes somewhat unreliable catalog evidence.

My conclusion, not necessarily fact: Older production “previous model no.” ratchets still being sold off until supplies depleted or the model number changed mid production. Go back and take a look at the ratchet in the E-bay link, it’s actually pretty interesting. It appears to have a 1950 date code with 24991 model number stamp as well as a faint GW9999 stamp...: As for no date codes in 1953, I don’t know for sure. I do have some 3/8” drive pieces that I believe to be post 1953 but they could also possibly be from the 40s.

I think you're correct and I believe I have many pieces that are dated what I believe to be '53/4/5. If I ever get back to my shop I'll try and remember to check but I gots to work all weekend........

 

[d42jeep]

I have an extra 13/16, but only one 9/16. I could possibly be convinced to part with them for the proper Plombcentive.

Here's a pic of the majority of my very early Blackhawk sockets. The aluminum roasting tray was an extremely rare early option....

I would be happy to take that extra 13/16” off your hands. I have no idea what 1939 Plomb set you are referring to. I wonder if Todd has any of my missing pieces. I’m not sure he could find them in that huge Blackhawk section of his shop!
-Don

 

[twertsy]

I would be happy to take that extra 13/16” off your hands. I have no idea what 1939 Plomb set you are referring to. I wonder if Todd has any of my missing pieces. I’m not sure he could find them in that huge Blackhawk section of his shop!
-Don

I have only 1 or 2 pieces with the Indian logo Don. I just never see it.