The wet garage raise

[rburke65]

You are doing a great job. You will look back on this and think " I must have been crazy". But hey....one hell of a learning experience!

 

[JohnnieMo]

Great progress. I like the videos. My son always sticks his nose into my videos too

The lift went extremely well. Very well done. I would say you have even more bracing than I did, and I felt mine was overkill. However you are pouring under yours and mine was only up for about 4 hours.

A couple questions:

1. So you are pouring the footings outside of the existing slab. I assume you then have rebar anchored into the old slab coming in to the new forms?

2. It looks like you pouring the footing outside the footprint of the garage. (i.e. beyond the 26x26). How do you then set the garage on these footings/stub walls? I'm not really following. It would seem that you will end up with a ledge on the outside somehow.

3. How do you plan to keep water from coming in the doors? It looks like that driveway drains right into the main door. (unless of course you are planning to raise the entire floor too)

Keep up the good work. I know the pain.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I buried 3 courses. Not just one course ...

Yes, but what I said was

Typically when using "garden wall" block for a short retaining wall, you bury the first course so that it is level with the lower grade as a minimum for a "footer".

So I would have gone one course deeper.

... and put mortar between all courses and outside before burying.

I saw that, but mortar is not gone to hold up well in a damp environment long term.

The arch between the 2 walls will be your saving grace.

Using typical retaining block and doing the radius I did the gaps between blocks would be huge.

Yep ! Back fill with gravel.

I was tempted to put rebar in but didn't figure I needed it.

Yes, adding the vertical rebar would have been a lot of work. Like I said, the arch design is very strong.

 

[AZ Pete]

Yes, but what I said was



So I would have gone one course deeper.





I saw that, but mortar is not gone to hold up well in a damp environment long term.



The arch between the 2 walls will be your saving grace.







Yep ! Back fill with gravel.





Yes, adding the vertical rebar would have been a lot of work. Like I said, the arch design is very strong.

Concrete does well in wet environs, in my experience. I have worked with mooring systems that are concrete, and some are very old...they are still sound. Also think Hoover Dam, Roosevelt Dam and other structures.....


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[1949 caddyman]

Have you thought of using a concrete pumper to fill the forms?

 

[Sparkynutz]

I think my pictures of retaining wall weren't clear enough. The row closest to window is the same stack as in pics above but mostly buried now. An additional buried row would change nothing. The second row behind that is stacked on the concrete blocks that are filled with concrete and also will be installed with mortar and buried outside after garage is finished.

Pump truck is more $ I'm already going to be about $11k into this and over budget.

All the forms are complete. I installed rod couplings, sprayed all forms with deck sealer, cut and removed section of sidewalk. I also figured out a way to hang the outside forms on slab lip temporarily until fastened and staked at height.
Tomorrow is form install. Outside first then hangers removed, rebar placed, inside forms leveled and fastened to floor and clean up any extra tools and wood. I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. I'll post a new video after forms installed tomorrow.


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[Sparkynutz]

Great progress. I like the videos. My son always sticks his nose into my videos too

The lift went extremely well. Very well done. I would say you have even more bracing than I did, and I felt mine was overkill. However you are pouring under yours and mine was only up for about 4 hours.

A couple questions:

1. So you are pouring the footings outside of the existing slab. I assume you then have rebar anchored into the old slab coming in to the new forms?

2. It looks like you pouring the footing outside the footprint of the garage. (i.e. beyond the 26x26). How do you then set the garage on these footings/stub walls? I'm not really following. It would seem that you will end up with a ledge on the outside somehow.

3. How do you plan to keep water from coming in the doors? It looks like that driveway drains right into the main door. (unless of course you are planning to raise the entire floor too)

Keep up the good work. I know the pain.

Pouring stub wall on top of slab. It's only dug out around slab so that my forms can be fastened to outside of slab as well as room for coating the joint between slab and new concrete wall with foundation coating then cover with 2 inch foam and bury with dirt. I will be putting some concrete blocks on top of sidewalk in front of door as step up until ground settles and I redo deck in a few years. Then I will tear out deck, raise grade rest of area under it and pour new sidewalk from new deck to even with garage man door.

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[C_F]

Your project is coming along nicely! I haven't commented in here too much, but I wanted to pop in & say it's looking good. Looking forward to your continued progress!

 

[D45]

Would it have been better to demo it and save the siding and the door(s) and salvage what you can to reuse?

 

[Sparkynutz]

Would it have been better to demo it and save the siding and the door(s) and salvage what you can to reuse?

No. Garage was 2yrs old and would take 10x the amount of labor which I just don't have time for. It would cost same for fill and new slab so realistically the only thing making what I'm doing any different is the stub wall.

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[Platonic Solid]

What are you showing here? What's the purpose of the bushings?

 

[Sparkynutz]

Outside forms are 32 inches tall. I measured 23.75" from top to center of screw and fastened one at each end to support form at hopefully close to correct height while I tap con the form to side of old slab. I was going to use a 2x4 but these bushings being round will always sit flat with opposite side and be easier to shim under to get perfect height. If 2x4 was tipped even slightly it would affect my shimming slightly where round bushings wont. Hope that makes sense and works as I intend.

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[1949 caddyman]

Use a concrete bonding additive on the slab before the pour. It promotes adhesion.

 

[Sparkynutz]

Already have same exact stuff
Today didn't go quite as fast and smooth as planned.
We started putting forms in placed and I realized rebar needed to be put in place first or it would have been next to impossible even with forms only on outside. Getting the rebar into location with rods already mounted and lots of **** in the way was a pain that's for sure. Tying rebar together was also a learning experience I had never tried or even put much thought to it to be honest. Stupid twist tool was worthless and wires broke way too easy. Ended up using a lineman's pliers which worked much better and ability to tell when wire was about to break. Had I known what I know now I'd have just bought some 15 or 16 guage tying wire instead of the overpriced 17 guage loops and tool that was in the way more than anything. It might work ok for flat work but for walls it sure didnt.
I wouldn't be where I am today on this project if it wasn't for my uncle helping with excavation, and buddy from work helping with forms and rebar.
We have all the rebar complete except the front which might need to stay open until the end if we end up wheeling the concrete.
We got 4 outside forms in place and one screwed tight to the slab. Another thing I hadn't thought of was the outside of the slab being not even close to plumb.
When installing the threaded rods the front right corner was so far off I couldnt get them to start threading into the coupling. I checked all 4 corners with my plumb bob marks. Back left corner was dead perfect. Rest of garage was pivoted an inch and a half or so. We left the good corner down and raised up two of the off sides at a time with a ratchet strap and chain hooked to my truck and the right front corner. I kept tension on it and just kept going up and down between cribbing and jack up an inch or so. It only took a hand full of times up and down to get all plumb bobs within a 1/4" of where they started before garage left the ground. The two front are both 1/4" farther inward. Back two are about an 1/8 in or less. I'm assuming it will go back out after I set it down.
Hopefully rest of forms go on easily tomorrow. I had to dig out the trench further and dig a bunch out just to get hammer drill in for installing the tap cons into slab. I had a shorter drill bit but couldn't find it. I'll look around and see if I can find it so I don't have to dig so much more.

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[Lunker]

Good stuff. I agree I don't think you could have torn it down and rebuilt with all the fill you require for $11K. I built a new 22x22 with Hardiboard for $13K last year but that was a fluke pricing on the concrete and no fill or sidewalls etc.

Great Progress. Wish I had an uncle like you have. Im always stuck doing everything on my own.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Maybe I missed it, but if you're not having the concrete pumped in are you mixing it all yourself?

 

[Sparkynutz]

Maybe I missed it, but if you're not having the concrete pumped in are you mixing it all yourself?

Not pumped or mixed. Family friend that went to school with my uncle is pouring it with his guys. He's very expensive and very busy but I had no where else to turn with the original contractor backing out on me and everyone else I've called too busy. He couldn't give me a for sure day but said he'd fit me in. He'll have atleast 4-5 guys and should go pretty quick. He's coming over again tomorrow to see what I have going. Im assuming concrete truck is going to drive up to the garage and stick chute into middle and use wheelbarrows from there to walls and shovel into walls. If truck stays at road we'll have to wheel from the road and leave one of front forms off until the end. I'm not sure how it'll go but he's been pouring walls for 30+ years so I know whatever he decides it will he done right. I just hope truck doesn't break my driveway.

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[Platonic Solid]

Good deal - Maybe the truck can back up next to your cement driveway. Thanks for sharing your adventure.

 

[txvwnut]

When I did my garage I used mix on site trucks had them come with no water on board, makes them a little lighter. When they get there just hand them your water hose.

 

[Lunker]

Not pumped or mixed. Family friend that went to school with my uncle is pouring it with his guys. He's very expensive and very busy but I had no where else to turn with the original contractor backing out on me and everyone else I've called too busy. He couldn't give me a for sure day but said he'd fit me in. He'll have atleast 4-5 guys and should go pretty quick. He's coming over again tomorrow to see what I have going. Im assuming concrete truck is going to drive up to the garage and stick chute into middle and use wheelbarrows from there to walls and shovel into walls. If truck stays at road we'll have to wheel from the road and leave one of front forms off until the end. I'm not sure how it'll go but he's been pouring walls for 30+ years so I know whatever he decides it will he done right. I just hope truck doesn't break my driveway.

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Id be careful about the truck going up your driveway. That's the last thing you need a cracked driveway and trying to hash that out with a relative of a friend.

I had a wood floor delivery company back up over the sidewalk on a house I was building and it cracked the sidewalk.

 

[wssix99]

Id be careful about the truck going up your driveway. That's the last thing you need a cracked driveway and trying to hash that out with a relative of a friend.

The physics aren't that perrilous. A concrete truck isn't going to break a driveway as long as it has a normal base and there aren't any voids underneath.

The load of a concrete truck is spread out on the contact patches of 8 huge tires, then dissipated by the square of the depth of the slab plus the base. (By the time pressure gets to the dirt below, it's only a few psi.)

The problems for pavements and heavy highway trucks is primarily from the dynamic forces from them traveling at speed.

I had an overweight dumpster truck drive off the side of my 3", unreinforced, one week old driveway and (as expected) not a single issue.

 

[Sparkynutz]

The semi that brought 3 loads of gravel backed in driveway no problem. I mentioned concrete truck and he said the weight isn't the problem. It's the spinning uneven pressure of the concrete truck that'll break the driveway. When the garage floor was initially poured the neighbor said the truck drove on his lawn to get to it and go around the driveway. I might have to do that again, but hesitant because now the neighbor is pumping his sump pump only a few ft from where truck would be driving and it runs every 2 minutes or less when it's rainy and every 3-4 minutes at very most when it's bone dry. After I talk to contractor and get his ideas I can try talk to neighbor and get his sump hose moved for a few days. I was trying to get him to get it tied back into storm sewer but no luck. A lot of my water problem is from that running so often and nowhere for it to go. He's probably pumping same water over and over without actually getting rid of it in storm like everyone else on the block.
5.58 yards of concrete if my math is correct. I'll probably get 6 yards.

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[Lunker]

Most towns have ordinances about pumping water and creating a nuisance for neighbors

Concrete Truck in driveway at your own risk - I just don't want to be reading a post about how the concrete truck cracked your driveway.

 

[matt_i]

I am curious and I apologize if I missed this detail, but how are you planning to hold the forms together? I am familiar with the steel rod and flat "ties" with wedges. Not sure if you are going to use those or have another system in mind. I would also encourage diagonal bracing at the outside...once the crete gets flowing its heavy stuff plus the inertia of the "mud stream" really puts a lot of load on the forms.

Obiously you have "guys" to assist but I would want to pour that with a tow-behind pumper. Oversimplified it has a hopper/pump built into a trailer that fills from the truck and has a hose that goes across the ground and manipulated by people.

Pouring straight from the truck works very well when the truck chute can be aligned with the long axis of the form, then the mud can really flow at a high speed and save a lot of work dragging it thru. But filling any significant part of that from wheelbarrows with shovels is going to be hard on anyone.

I would have a concrete ******** at hand and try to get a good finish on the outside because I think part of that will be visible. I used Mazola corn oil on the parts of my forms that I wanted to release. While it was almost all 2x framing lumber I can't tell that the oil was ever on there except for the grey dust.

Good luck to you!

 

[Sparkynutz]

Wheeling concrete with that many guys only wheeling a few feet on concrete will be a nothing like going through lawn ruts all the way around a house to pour a huge patio like the last time I helped wheel. There will he plenty of bracing, stakes, etc. It won't be moving much if at all. Tapcons every 8 inches or so into the old slab too.

Here's a video of progress as of today.

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[JohnnieMo]

So are you going to bring up the floor level for the entire garage too? I must have missed that before. How are you planning to fill it all in? (may I suggest leaving an access pit and a sewer/drain?)

I'm looking forward to all the awesome things you're going to do with the interior once this major undertaking is complete.

 

[Sparkynutz]

No access pit. Tempted to do lift but no funds at moment. Wouldn't be difficult to saw out a section and add it later tho. Floor drain pipe is already cut through forms. Whole garage will be filled with 1.5 inch clear stone then 2 inch foam followed by 8 mil plastic and rebar 16" oc.

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[JohnnieMo]

No access pit. Tempted to do lift but no funds at moment. Wouldn't be difficult to saw out a section and add it later tho. Floor drain pipe is already cut through forms. Whole garage will be filled with 1.5 inch clear stone then 2 inch foam followed by 8 mil plastic and rebar 16" oc.

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So how many inches/feet are you planning to bring up the floor?

I always thought an infloor lift would be the best thing ever. My 4 post is nice, but those 4 posts are ALWAYS in the way. Something that tucked into the ground would be pretty sweet.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Shouldn't there be ties connecting the exterior wall form to the interior wall form?

 

[Sparkynutz]

Shouldn't there be ties connecting the exterior wall form to the interior wall form?

There will be. I'm not done yet.

Floor will be just shy of 24" higher. I'm going to have a very small drop where wall meets slab so that any water stays away from my walls. There will only be a 6ft sweep tapered to drain so that working on cars is easier with rest of slab being level.
I will fill with 18 inches or so of gravel, let settle over winter and see how walls hold up before pouring the new slab sometime next spring.

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[Jim'bo]

Is that ply for the wall forms primed with something? I'M NO EXPERT, but isn't it going to **** all the water from the concrete otherwise?

 

[Sparkynutz]

Deck sealer

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[Sparkynutz]

All forms are installed and partially backfilled with screenings I had on hand in piles. I'll get more monday to finish backfilling. Tomorrow I'll finish inside cleating and crossbraces between inside and outside forms. Was much bigger pain than anticipated. I have no idea how far out of square it is because my cribbing is in the way and it was just about impossible to get everything straight, plumb and level at same time as anchoring to outside of a not even close to plumb slab as shown in one of my earlier pics. All I do know is outside forms are within 1/8" straight and level. They are not all same length tho. 2 sides are 25'-5/8, one side is 26' and one side is 25-7/8". Neing less hopefully isnt a problem tho because then as ling as im nog too out of square the sheeting and siding will overhang just finejust havr a little extra clearnance. The inside forms on other hand is waaay off and not even close. I ground off most of my lines to follow and had a hard enough time trying to get them level with shims when floor was as wavy as the ocean. They are pretty straight but not even close to plumb and spacing from top of outside form to inside form varies from 8-1/4" to 9-1/2" hopefully I can fix that a little with cleating but it honestly doesn't matter what inside form is as long as it's level with outside form which it is within 1/8 on 3 walls and back wall is 3/16" higher in middle somehow.
I've called concrete guy 3 times left 3 messages last 3 days. Haven't heard back. If I don't hear back by Monday it looks like I'll be buying some beer, wheelbarrows, and shovels and trying to round up some guys. It's supposed to be rainy and stormy bad next 3 days then end of next week get down to 20* at night. I need to get this pour done asap.


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[Sparkynutz]

My half assed attempt at plastic for outside lasted all of 5 minutes in the strong winds today. Not much I can do about that besides hope that it stays fairly dry or dries out fast before pour

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[Platonic Solid]

After all this having the concrete guy blow you off is just BS. There's got to be other companies in the area.

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

After all this having the concrete guy blow you off is just BS. There's got to be other companies in the area.

Typical of contractors, problem with trying to find someone new is finding someone that has availability anytime soon. Most of the good guys are booked up

Friend of mine put a second story addition on and had his roofer flake out. He was dealing with tarps on his roof for weeks trying to keep it dry. He said he called at least 20 guys begging them to come out, he finally found somebody on craigslist and when the guy showed up it was him and his helper and they didn’t even have a ladder for second story roof. My friend said sorry I don’t think this is gonna work here’s 20 bucks for your gas go ahead and hit the road.

How the hell can a roofer show up to put a roof on without a ladder?


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[ford33]

You're making excellent progress. I know you are up against the cold weather soon to arrive. You have a can-do attitude and I have faith that you will finish on time.

It is frustrating to hear the concrete company will not call you back to schedule delivery.

 

[Sparkynutz]

I'm already on second contractor after first guy did same ****. Kinda sad cuz my uncle has done him many favors over the years. My uncle was pretty dissapointed that he hasn't called back. He said he has his own chute extensions and an elephant trunk looking thing that fits on end that he could easily pour half the garage with. I have number of co-owner of the company. The guy that does the bookwork. I'll call him Monday and see if he answers then go from there.

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[Sparkynutz]

Well. I figured out how to know how off I was by measuring from inside of sheeting at top of wall in each corner to my plumb bob string then compare to bottom of wall and to inside of outside form to string. Just as I thought. Every single outside form is 1/4" to 1/2" + bigger than my garage. I kinda figured it was built correctly. The sheeting only sticks past the bottom of 2x4 an 1/8" if that. I came up with 2 ways to fix this.
1. Put a 3/8" strip of plywood or trim with beveled bottom at the top inside of my form so that sheeting can overhang and siding sticks out past the concrete.
2. Leave as is hoping rain doesnt seep in off of the siding where concrete sticks out and in a couple years tear off the siding then install a layer of 1/2" pink foam to slab and another layer of 1" pink foam on top of that sticking past concrete a few inches. Install ground breaker and re-side


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[Vintage Veloce]

I have trouble with some spots of water intrusion in my garage, due to exactly this... the foundation sticking out too far and an inadequate flashing/drip edge.
I'd do #1 or something similar.