Vintage Veloce
Well-known member
Post a "help wanted" on local Craigslist?
The wet garage raise
- Thread starter Sparkynutz
- Start date
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
If I wanted to pour from outside it would be much easier to just lift garage another foot. Moving concrete a few feet inside garage will be much easier than wheeling all the way around outside and then have to reinstall forms. The top plates overlap to strengthen the forms too. Everything about the idea would make pouring slower, more work, and forms less stable.
I have some 2x12's and 4x4s that can be used as a ramp and moved as we go that I already tried out with wheelbarrow. It should be perfect for driving up and dumping into side walls.
I've carried two pails full of water many many times and was assuming the concrete would be no different. What I didn't realize is that concrete is around twice the weight of water.
My dad has some metal 4 gallon buckets that his lacquer comes in I'll grab. Maybe they can hold the weight better than the plastic ones I was planning on using and just fill half full instead of 3/4 full.
Everything is cleaned up ready to go. I got the extra 1/2" anchors installed on inside forms. Installed my beveled trim to make sure overhanging siding has plenty of room to come down when I lower garage. I skipped the areas for both garage doors and man doors. Should be easier to taper the edge and know where to start and stop for garage doors with trim stopping 1/4" short of garage door openings.
I was looking at my concrete bonding adhesive I was planning on using.
It specifies "Do not apply at temerature below 50* F."
Well. I'm pretty sure it won't be over 50 that's for sure.
Do I apply anyways and hope for best or do I not use it? Which is worse? Incorrect application or none at all?
I'm thinking maybe mix with some warm water and brush on anyways because it says it can be painted on full strength or diluted with 2 parts water as a primer coat.
Maybe apply 2-3 hours before the pour.
Haven't heard back from contractor #1,2, or the guy I bought beams from either. I messaged him on facebook so I know he read my messages. So many recommendations by people on Facebook but responses from contacting any of them are almost nonexistant.
The ones that did respond were probably free for a reason.
Ever pour a wall? Nope. Just flatwork or I do mainly siding and roofing. Lots of oh I thought you wanted the driveway poured even tho my pictures and post clearly said Experienced concrete wall contractor needed asap to pour a 2ft wall.
I know the work habits and abilities of all the guys helping me from work and I'm most likely better off with them helping than some random guy looking for side jobs.
It's going to be a lot of work but pretty confident it will work out just fine.
Tomorrow is grandpas funeral and try and fit in getting all the buckets and materials.
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Sparkynutz
Well-known member
I stopped at local hardware store that has rental equipment. No luck on ********. Only place local that has it listed for rent has no price and my luck they closed an hour ago.
Just for heck of it I checked home depot like suggested. None available for rent within 100 miles. Tried 90210 lol. Only zip code I could think of offhand and 4 for rent at 3 stores.
100 deposit and $46 per day.
I might just buy one for $180 and not have to waste time returning it.
Kinda curious what concrete will cost. I forgot to ask.
Time to relax and watch a movie.
Thanks grandpa for the night off work!
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Just for heck of it I checked home depot like suggested. None available for rent within 100 miles. Tried 90210 lol. Only zip code I could think of offhand and 4 for rent at 3 stores.
100 deposit and $46 per day.
I might just buy one for $180 and not have to waste time returning it.
Kinda curious what concrete will cost. I forgot to ask.
Time to relax and watch a movie.
Thanks grandpa for the night off work!
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Platonic Solid
Well-known member
I'd have to take a wild guess and say Waupun WI
diiulio
Well-known member
Good luck, I am waiting to see how this turns out.
I'm sure you will be fine based on your work so far.
I'm sure you will be fine based on your work so far.
Last edited:
Diesel Dan
Well-known member
Wow!
Your concrete experience is worse than mine.
3 days before a 44+ yard pour my contractor, who did my footers, backed out. In the amount of time it took to find another outfit my vapor barrier crumbled under the July sun/heat. Had to unwire, remove and reinstall hundreds and hundreds of feet of #4 rebar by myself. One thing I could not do myself is a continuous 44 yd pour.
All you need is manual labors it looks like,
Run an ad offering $20-30/hr for wheelbarrow runners and buy the concrete ********? Let them do the heavy lifting while you make sure the mix is settled.
Your concrete experience is worse than mine.
3 days before a 44+ yard pour my contractor, who did my footers, backed out. In the amount of time it took to find another outfit my vapor barrier crumbled under the July sun/heat. Had to unwire, remove and reinstall hundreds and hundreds of feet of #4 rebar by myself. One thing I could not do myself is a continuous 44 yd pour.
All you need is manual labors it looks like,
Run an ad offering $20-30/hr for wheelbarrow runners and buy the concrete ********? Let them do the heavy lifting while you make sure the mix is settled.
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
Damn. That *****! Odd the plastic did that. Must have been crappy plastic from the start.
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Diesel Dan
Well-known member
It was 10 mil but white not black.
From what I've read the white/clear breaks down faster. Local redi-mix was the only local place that carried anything heavier than 6 mil and only in white. It probably sat exposed for a good month or more by the time I found another crew.
Back when we lived in NW Wisconsin I had a hard time finding a concrete guy to pour 7 yards for a floor. 100% of the prep work was done, rebar, forms, drain etc, just needed man power. Was quoted $3500 for that little job back in 2008/9.
highflier
Active member
As mentioned above, don't over vibrate or you can blow out your forms.
Do not underestimate how heavy concrete is, use every a very available method to reduce the wear on your team.
Its like if you ever do a charity boxing deal, 3 - 1 minute rounds sound easy, until your arms stop working half way thru.
Once they mix the concrete at the plant, you have up to 1 1/2 hours to pour (max).
Pace yourself and you'll be fine.
Do not underestimate how heavy concrete is, use every a very available method to reduce the wear on your team.
Its like if you ever do a charity boxing deal, 3 - 1 minute rounds sound easy, until your arms stop working half way thru.
Once they mix the concrete at the plant, you have up to 1 1/2 hours to pour (max).
Pace yourself and you'll be fine.
Last edited:
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
Good to know about the black plastic. I hope I dont have that problem with the floor next spring.
I'm trying to decide and plan for when to remove forms and figure out how and when to cut the control joints.
Pretty sure I mentioned this before but with walls sitting on top of slab more than likely the walls will crack near the saw cuts in the supporting slab if it ever moves with seasons.
With all the rebar I don't want to cut too deep but it sure would **** to saw it and have it still crack somewhere else.
I wonder if I should cut partial slots in the forms and insert chipboard at joints prior to pouring. Or even just cut a piece of chipboard width of wall with slits to go around rebar and slide in from top. Maybe slits in forms just big enough to slide some banding through to hold the chipboard.
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I'm trying to decide and plan for when to remove forms and figure out how and when to cut the control joints.
Pretty sure I mentioned this before but with walls sitting on top of slab more than likely the walls will crack near the saw cuts in the supporting slab if it ever moves with seasons.
With all the rebar I don't want to cut too deep but it sure would **** to saw it and have it still crack somewhere else.
I wonder if I should cut partial slots in the forms and insert chipboard at joints prior to pouring. Or even just cut a piece of chipboard width of wall with slits to go around rebar and slide in from top. Maybe slits in forms just big enough to slide some banding through to hold the chipboard.
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wasfast
Well-known member
For the shallow depth of a stem wall, you can use a 1/4 sheet palm sander on the side of the forms to gently vibrate it. As noted 2 times above, DON'T OVER VIBRATE IT. The aggregate will all settle at the bottom and blow out the forms.
lakeroadster
Well-known member
It won't blow out Sparky's forms... they are only 2 ft high, and they are built hell for stout.
lakeroadster
Well-known member
Good advice in general... but consider this individual case.
It won't blow out Sparky's forms... they are only 2 ft high, and they are built hell for stout.
matt_i
Well-known member
Just to add some hopefully useful math...a cu yard of concrete weighs roughly 4000 lbs. So /27 = 148 lbs per 1 cu ft.
A chintzy wheelbarrow you can buy for $40 has a 4cu ft. capacity if filled to the top...that's on the order of 600lbs. A "better" one like a Jackson is 6cu ft, which is close to 900 lbs...most average people including me could barely push it 1 foot ahead on level ground. Get the load off center for an instant and it will be on the ground. Best practice imo is to get 3 people on a wheelbarrow, one per side to stabilize and help push and the other to operate the handles. Dumping it is another story, its fine to fill up a hole in the ground but tough to control...
I still recommend pumping the concrete despite the cost, you just need a couple of people to trowel and screed but this is easy work.
A chintzy wheelbarrow you can buy for $40 has a 4cu ft. capacity if filled to the top...that's on the order of 600lbs. A "better" one like a Jackson is 6cu ft, which is close to 900 lbs...most average people including me could barely push it 1 foot ahead on level ground. Get the load off center for an instant and it will be on the ground. Best practice imo is to get 3 people on a wheelbarrow, one per side to stabilize and help push and the other to operate the handles. Dumping it is another story, its fine to fill up a hole in the ground but tough to control...
I still recommend pumping the concrete despite the cost, you just need a couple of people to trowel and screed but this is easy work.
Deezler
Well-known member
I poured my pole-garage rat wall (4 yds total, before the slab) using 4 buddies and 3 wheelbarrows, going 30-40 feet per load over smooth dirt. It went totally fine. Yeah, the load is about as heavy as anything you'll ever carry in a wheelbarrow, but you learn to tell the truck driver to chill out and keep the barrows half full at most. Tipping them out is pretty easy too, once you start lifting they go right over on their own. Just have a temporary back-splash in place so you dont have to dump so precisely.
Vintage Veloce
Well-known member
If you have any spare people, take pics and videos!
Diesel Dan
Well-known member
You should be fine as the building is up and you're much cooler up 'nort.
Mine sat in the blazing 100* sun too long.
1949 caddyman
Well-known member
Sparkynutz, have you decided on using the concrete adhesieve? I couldn’t find any more info on the temp limit than you did.
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
I spent most of the night with family at grandpas funeral. Before I went I ran new strings to make sure outside walls were lined up. Middle of back wall was out almost a 1/2" not sure how that happened. Nothing an extra stake and some pounding on existing stakes and shims to put more pressure on wall then tightened banding straps.
Everything is straight now except front wall where garage door is 1/2" in. I don't have as many stakes and no braces on front so it will most likely push out a little I'm hoping when it's poured. If not it shouldn't be too critical anyways with it being garage doorway.
I did decide to use the adhesive.
I will use the same sprayer I bought for the deck sealer I used on forms after I clean it out of course. I'll mix it with Luke warm water and just do a quick spray on slab inside forms.
I stopped and rented a ******** on way home. $43 including tax.
Dang that sucker is heavy and awkward. I tried using my Palm sander to settle the concrete when I filled my concrete blocks around window well and it didn't do a damn thing. I'd bet one of my wife's toys woulda worked better than the sander did.
No need to find out tho having the correct tool this time.
I probably won't vibrate it much just a quick pass along outside form tho make sure there's no voids on outside. The inside doesn't really matter. It will be buried.
I picked up my dad's hydraulic cart tonight. Much smaller than I recall. Only 6 buckets will fit and they were a darn mess. He'd been using them as tables to support cabinets he was spraying with lacquer that was in the buckets. He didn't even have any clean ones so my kids and I just spent last two hours power washing and scrubbing them best we could. I hope whatever residue that comes off when being used doesn't affect the concrete.
I picked up about 20 buckets but over half of them were so full of spray I couldn't even get them apart with a hammer.
I managed to clean 8 to use. I'm hoping that's enough. I picked up my dad's wheelbarrow and he suggested taking a garden hoe and similar tool but straight for chipping ice off driveway. That might work good to push concrete to hard to reach areas because it will fit inside the wall.
I picked up a 100ft 12g cord to run the ********. Good thing. It draws 12 amps.
After that I'll use the cord along with a 120ft roof de-icing cable.
I figured running that on slab along inside form would warm it up just enough to help for a few days.
Tomorrow I need to pick up two more wheelbarrows, get out the shovels and get everything ready.
I know I'm forgetting something but can't think of what. I'll think of it at 2am probably. Can't wait till tomorrow night when I should be able to sleep like a baby.
One guy canceled and 2 of my maybe are now a yes. As long as nobody calls in and forces them to come into work early I'll have 6 guys including myself.
My wife will be cooking 2 batches of pressure cooker beef stew and a pan of apple crisp tomorrow morning then come take some video of the pour. Hopefully she does a good job on the video.
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Everything is straight now except front wall where garage door is 1/2" in. I don't have as many stakes and no braces on front so it will most likely push out a little I'm hoping when it's poured. If not it shouldn't be too critical anyways with it being garage doorway.
I did decide to use the adhesive.
I will use the same sprayer I bought for the deck sealer I used on forms after I clean it out of course. I'll mix it with Luke warm water and just do a quick spray on slab inside forms.
I stopped and rented a ******** on way home. $43 including tax.
Dang that sucker is heavy and awkward. I tried using my Palm sander to settle the concrete when I filled my concrete blocks around window well and it didn't do a damn thing. I'd bet one of my wife's toys woulda worked better than the sander did.
No need to find out tho having the correct tool this time.
I probably won't vibrate it much just a quick pass along outside form tho make sure there's no voids on outside. The inside doesn't really matter. It will be buried.
I picked up my dad's hydraulic cart tonight. Much smaller than I recall. Only 6 buckets will fit and they were a darn mess. He'd been using them as tables to support cabinets he was spraying with lacquer that was in the buckets. He didn't even have any clean ones so my kids and I just spent last two hours power washing and scrubbing them best we could. I hope whatever residue that comes off when being used doesn't affect the concrete.
I picked up about 20 buckets but over half of them were so full of spray I couldn't even get them apart with a hammer.
I managed to clean 8 to use. I'm hoping that's enough. I picked up my dad's wheelbarrow and he suggested taking a garden hoe and similar tool but straight for chipping ice off driveway. That might work good to push concrete to hard to reach areas because it will fit inside the wall.
I picked up a 100ft 12g cord to run the ********. Good thing. It draws 12 amps.
After that I'll use the cord along with a 120ft roof de-icing cable.
I figured running that on slab along inside form would warm it up just enough to help for a few days.
Tomorrow I need to pick up two more wheelbarrows, get out the shovels and get everything ready.
I know I'm forgetting something but can't think of what. I'll think of it at 2am probably. Can't wait till tomorrow night when I should be able to sleep like a baby.
One guy canceled and 2 of my maybe are now a yes. As long as nobody calls in and forces them to come into work early I'll have 6 guys including myself.
My wife will be cooking 2 batches of pressure cooker beef stew and a pan of apple crisp tomorrow morning then come take some video of the pour. Hopefully she does a good job on the video.
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RSr
Well-known member
Best of luck to you sparky, hopefully it goes smoothly. I know you said the concrete was going to be spec'd at 4 for slump but if time is working against you don't be afraid to have them add water to make it flow better and save time and shoveling. Standard CMU blocks are only 1800 PSI, your walls don't need to be 4000 psi to hold up the structure.
MikeF2316
Well-known member
Wow! I haven't had a change to visit this thread in more than a week. Good luck!
Diesel Dan
Well-known member
If you want it to flow better and keep a low w/c ratio ask the mix plant to add some plasticizer.
Finallygotit
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Subscribed! WOW! 
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
I asked about that. They said it should be fine and easily workable with the ash. Just add water if needed. I hope not to but may if needed. I'll pour front wall first before adding any water and see how it flows.
I've read that plastisizer can be finicky and sometimes react badly causing issues. Not worth the risk from what I've read online.
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ford33
Well-known member
About forgetting something. Do you have someone on Saturday that could be a runner to get things you might forget you need?
Maybe a neighbor or relative who cannot help with concrete work but who can drive the hour to a store to get what you need. Have them standby at the local IHOP near the big box store on Saturday morning until the concrete is done then they can drive home if nothing is needed.
Maybe a neighbor or relative who cannot help with concrete work but who can drive the hour to a store to get what you need. Have them standby at the local IHOP near the big box store on Saturday morning until the concrete is done then they can drive home if nothing is needed.
strength_and_power
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2015
- Messages
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Read this start to finish. Super ambitious and extremely well planned out. Not much advice I and add but you do solid work
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Vintage Veloce
Well-known member
Good luck tomorrow!
Motoman1100
Well-known member
The tension builds!
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
I went bed at midnight and woke up at 1:40am but thinking about work and not the garage. Kinda odd. Felt like I slept most of the night but fell back asleep not stresses out. 5:40 am tho tossed and turned thinking about this that and the other thing on garage. It's now an hour later. Might as well just get up and eat a good breakfast once. Maybe it will help my head focus.
I didn't get a chute fabricated but have a few ideas this morning.
I'm going to raise garage a little more just for added working room to be safe.
But first thing is get cord ran from attached garage and put that heating cable somewhere to pre warm the floor hopefully.
The other thing I've been worrying about is when the slab was poured I was told the second truck got lost and it had a terrible cold joint with 2nd truck showing up 2 hours after the first. I only have one truck coming but he better not get lost. My street has 3 names because they didn't used to be connected and street I live on is always misspelled. Even by Google and city hall that issued building permit. That's what I miss most about my old house on a busy well known street with only one possible spelling.
I'm not sure how much video my wife will take. She didn't start making any of the food yet and she's still sleeping. I'll try and get some myself.
Time to get at it-
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I didn't get a chute fabricated but have a few ideas this morning.
I'm going to raise garage a little more just for added working room to be safe.
But first thing is get cord ran from attached garage and put that heating cable somewhere to pre warm the floor hopefully.
The other thing I've been worrying about is when the slab was poured I was told the second truck got lost and it had a terrible cold joint with 2nd truck showing up 2 hours after the first. I only have one truck coming but he better not get lost. My street has 3 names because they didn't used to be connected and street I live on is always misspelled. Even by Google and city hall that issued building permit. That's what I miss most about my old house on a busy well known street with only one possible spelling.
I'm not sure how much video my wife will take. She didn't start making any of the food yet and she's still sleeping. I'll try and get some myself.
Time to get at it-
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awdblazer
Well-known member
good luck!!!!
smalltown
Well-known member
I've been following the thread along with everybody else. I think you will be fine. You have done quite a lot of prep. Best of luck.
1949 caddyman
Well-known member
Are you pouring today?
ford33
Well-known member
Good luck tomorrow!
You planned well and understand what needs to be done.
You planned well and understand what needs to be done.
JohnnieMo
Well-known member
I have never been more excited about a concrete pour!
Vintage Veloce
Well-known member
He has got to be wrapping up the pour around now. Really hope it went successfully!
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
You'll have to wait a while for the video. I haven't watched it yet but from sounds of it needs lots and lots of editing. I hope she got some good parts. I know she was busy finishing up lunch and missed a lot of the action.
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Vintage Veloce
Well-known member
Sparky! How did it go!?
D45
Well-known member
Anticipation!!!
OP
Sparkynutz
Well-known member
What I learned-
Rowing as a team is easier than dumping wheelbarrows.
Don't put rebar so high in form. 6 inches or more from top would have made a huge difference instead of 2-3 inches I had. That would have made pushing the concrete to corners easier and faster.
Don't waste time trying to use a ******** after forms are full if you have banding or strapping across top of form. It just splashes and putting it against outside does nothing too. If you use one. Do it while forms are 1/2 to 3/4 full. I didn't know this but was planning on trying to do it at 1/2 way and slipped my mind. It would have been too difficult in my application with beams, cribbing, banding, wheelbarrows and people in the way trying to get concrete into the forms. I had no clock handy or concept of time with the adrenaline running and thinking getting all the concrete into the forms in time was going to be down to the wire.
Buckets work better than wheelbarrows too and aren't as heavy as you think. If you work as a team. Something we didn't accel at very well the truck could have kept pumping with two guys filling and two guys dumping buckets and a 5th guy manning the chute scraper. Things were way harder than they could have been with everyone having their own idea and doing it. If everyone would have slowed down and listened to me things would have gone smoother and easier. Some of the guys realized this and asked why they did what they did making it harder work than needed to be. In the end it didn't matter and all the forms were filled in record time. 1hr and 3 minutes from start to washing out the chutes.
Don't trust plastic tubing to stay straight enough to keep rods lined up. I raised garage extra for more pouring room which was a good thing. We needed the extra room. Many of the tube bent and rods were waaay off. Luckily I noticed it and lowered and straightened garage with my plumb bobs while concrete was still soft enough to move ok.
Try not to waste concrete. It could have ended badly. They only sent 6 yards according to bill and I asked for 6.5 yards both times I called. There was only 2 full wheelbarrows left after walls were full. Just enough to do driveway triangle and a couple buckets for canopy hold downs.
Don't plan pour so close to winter. I didn't have enough time this morning to apply the bonding adhesive. Shouldn't go anywhere with all the rebar anyways. I wanted to but just didn't have time.
Don't count on any contractors whatsoever. I will be renting everything needed and doing all the rest of my concrete myself with help.
Luckily it turned out to be a beautiful day and pretty sure it will cure well tonight especially with garage lowered to about 28 inches somewhat protecting the top.
The slab wasn't even cold this morning. Rebar on the other hand was.
Tomorrow is cleanup time.
Huge mess that's for sure.
Time to relax get a movie with my daughter and make a pizza.
My wife and son went to bring the ******** back and do some bumming around and out to eat.
Here's a few pics to tide you over till video is done.
Oh ya. And driveway didn't crack anywhere either. Woohoo.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Rowing as a team is easier than dumping wheelbarrows.
Don't put rebar so high in form. 6 inches or more from top would have made a huge difference instead of 2-3 inches I had. That would have made pushing the concrete to corners easier and faster.
Don't waste time trying to use a ******** after forms are full if you have banding or strapping across top of form. It just splashes and putting it against outside does nothing too. If you use one. Do it while forms are 1/2 to 3/4 full. I didn't know this but was planning on trying to do it at 1/2 way and slipped my mind. It would have been too difficult in my application with beams, cribbing, banding, wheelbarrows and people in the way trying to get concrete into the forms. I had no clock handy or concept of time with the adrenaline running and thinking getting all the concrete into the forms in time was going to be down to the wire.
Buckets work better than wheelbarrows too and aren't as heavy as you think. If you work as a team. Something we didn't accel at very well the truck could have kept pumping with two guys filling and two guys dumping buckets and a 5th guy manning the chute scraper. Things were way harder than they could have been with everyone having their own idea and doing it. If everyone would have slowed down and listened to me things would have gone smoother and easier. Some of the guys realized this and asked why they did what they did making it harder work than needed to be. In the end it didn't matter and all the forms were filled in record time. 1hr and 3 minutes from start to washing out the chutes.
Don't trust plastic tubing to stay straight enough to keep rods lined up. I raised garage extra for more pouring room which was a good thing. We needed the extra room. Many of the tube bent and rods were waaay off. Luckily I noticed it and lowered and straightened garage with my plumb bobs while concrete was still soft enough to move ok.
Try not to waste concrete. It could have ended badly. They only sent 6 yards according to bill and I asked for 6.5 yards both times I called. There was only 2 full wheelbarrows left after walls were full. Just enough to do driveway triangle and a couple buckets for canopy hold downs.
Don't plan pour so close to winter. I didn't have enough time this morning to apply the bonding adhesive. Shouldn't go anywhere with all the rebar anyways. I wanted to but just didn't have time.
Don't count on any contractors whatsoever. I will be renting everything needed and doing all the rest of my concrete myself with help.
Luckily it turned out to be a beautiful day and pretty sure it will cure well tonight especially with garage lowered to about 28 inches somewhat protecting the top.
The slab wasn't even cold this morning. Rebar on the other hand was.
Tomorrow is cleanup time.
Huge mess that's for sure.
Time to relax get a movie with my daughter and make a pizza.
My wife and son went to bring the ******** back and do some bumming around and out to eat.
Here's a few pics to tide you over till video is done.
Oh ya. And driveway didn't crack anywhere either. Woohoo.
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