sberry
Banned
Is the stereo a 2 wire appliance or is it 3 wire?
Third stereo receiver..lightning
- Thread starter davidlee
- Start date
sberry
Banned
Who put you in charge?
It is a two wire appliance.
I don't want of offend anyone and I appreciate all the replies but just for now I
have one question. Do I need to add ground rods at the sub panel? Some of this information is over my pay grade. LOL
I don't want to sound like a smart a$$ but I am talking about the 8 or 10 foot rods that you drive in the ground and put a clamp on and run a wire to the box.
I don't want of offend anyone and I appreciate all the replies but just for now I
have one question. Do I need to add ground rods at the sub panel? Some of this information is over my pay grade. LOL
I don't want to sound like a smart a$$ but I am talking about the 8 or 10 foot rods that you drive in the ground and put a clamp on and run a wire to the box.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Its because youre not forking or splitting the ground.
As i said above, fault current doesnt flow over grounding electrodes.
Huh?
Yes u need 2 rods and connect them using one continuous piece of bare #6 cu...
Last edited:
ModClean
Well-known member
Ah, I see, my non-technical explanation was insufficiently technical.
None of this is complicated. But some is completely unknown to many including electricians.
With a four wire connection from main building to secondary building, then no ground rods are needed. But that is only for human safety. Code only discusses human safety issues (ie resistsnce). Transistor safety means you must meet or exceed code requirements (ie low impedance). For example, if those buildings are more than 20 feet apart, then a secondary building needs its own single point earth ground. This was discussed in Post 34. Since most of that layman information is new, then it requires multiple rereads.
That is an earth ground necessary to make a protector effective. Then a 'whole house' protector must be in that secondary building's panel located to make a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to (newly installed) single point earth ground.
How those 8 foot ground rods are hardwired to a subpanel is critical. Not to electricians since code for human safety does not care how many sharp bends are in that wire. But every sharp bend diminishes transistor safety - increases impedance - makes the best protector less effective.
Post 24 also includes a critically important fact:
Last edited:
DC73
Well-known member
I would.
Just for simplicity sake, here is one option for steps to take:
1) Check all existing grounds as discussed above. Loose connections and poor grounds can contribute to the problem. While you're at it, check all other connections in each panel. If you're not comfortable doing this, an electrician can make quick work of it.
2) Install ground rods at the shop as described.
3) Install whole structure surge protectors on both the house panel and the shop panel.
4) Use point of use surge protection for any sensitive electronic equipment.
DC
jdieter
Well-known member
I would add #5 to DC73; buy a vintage tube stereo more robust to surges and richer sound.
DC73
Well-known member
Do you have access to a technical paper that explains how bends increase impedance and the magnitude of that impedance increase? I'm curious as to how important it is to eliminate sharp bends and at what point do we say it's not worth the time involved.
Are you across the pond or in the southern half?
DC
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Not true. Please STOP posting misinformation!
:Grounding electrodes are required on ALL detached structures!
Last edited:
jdieter
Well-known member
So with a 4 wire feed to a sub-panel in a detached building does the neutral bar stay "unbounded" to the sub-panel? And I'm assuming the GEC from the ground rod will attach to the grounding bar that is bonded to the sub-panel? Also could somebody point me to the Article and Part No. of the NEC that has the "Grounding electrodes are required on ALL detached structures" information. Not doubting, would simply like to update my 1966 code book.
ModClean
Well-known member
250.32A - Any structure w/more than 1 branch circuit w/EGC requires own GES. So, not "ALL" secondary structures, but all electricaly significant other structures.
260.32B - Do not bond neutral in subpanel
260.32B - Do not bond neutral in subpanel
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
1966?
Wouldnt it be better to just get a new code book? Your book is almost 50yrs old!
I do electronics repair. First recommendation; don't buy another Onkyo. Every broken Onkyo I've ever seen has a bad digital board, surge comes in through the HDMI and blows up the board.
I'd install a grounding rod then consider getting a HDMI surge protector, especially if you have DirecTV or DISH.
I'd install a grounding rod then consider getting a HDMI surge protector, especially if you have DirecTV or DISH.
Platonic Solid
Well-known member
This may be excessive, but I run all my computer equipment through a Tripp Lite LCR2400 though that still leaves the input cable to the cable modem unprotected.
An assumption based only in observation. And by not first learning how surges do damage. A surge is often incoming on utility wires not required to have surge protection. Cable or antenna is required to have earthed protection. Meaning that is not an incoming surge path. But is a common outgoing path.
A direct strike even far down the street is incoming on AC mains. Once that surge is incoming to all household appliances, then it goes hunting for earth. A common outgoing path to earth is out the HDMI port to earth via the TV cable, satellite dish, or antenna.
HDMI ports are often damaged when it is the outgoing surge path. If both an incoming and outgoing path do not exist, then no damage. Damaged often because a homeowner failed to properly earth a 'whole house' protector on AC mains. HDMI ports often damaged because a homeowner has all but invited a surge inside to go hunting, destructively.
An HDMI protector does not claim to protect from that type of surge. Only earthing (low impedance by a direct hardwire or protector) protects from that type of surge.
If a surge is incoming on HDMI port, then the wire/cable that carried that surge into a building is defectively installled. Fix the problem; do not cure symptoms.
Read its spec numbers. It will only absorb 480 joules and never more than 960 joules. How does that block or absorb surges that do damage; that can be tens or hundreds of thousands of joules? It doesn't. It only claims to protect from another type of surge that typically does no damage.
Being so undersized, it also needs protection by a properly earthed 'whole house' protector.
Why does it need cable modem protection when that cable (as required by code) should already have superior and robust protection even from direct lightning strikes?
Platonic Solid
Well-known member
westom - This is obviously not my area of expertise so I will yield to better informed posters, however I'm not seeing the specs you're showing. I see 1440 joules on the TrippLite website. All I can really testify to is that I had constant issues with lightning taking out electrical devices and have had no similar issues since I installed this 4 years ago.
Numbers were for a 1440 joule protector.
Destructive surges occur maybe once every seven years. For a conclusion of no damage, well, all those other unprotected appliances (dishwasher, dimmer switches, refrigerator, air conditioner, TV, clocks, etc) were damaged? If not, then when was this destructive surge?
Protection from surges is routine in facilities that cannot have damage. Telstra switching centers will suffer about 100 surges with each thunderstorm. They also do not spend obscene amounts of money on a 'near zero joule' Tripplite. Instead properly earthed are 'whole house' protectors. Because no protector does protection. An effective protector is a connecting device to what actually and harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules - earth ground. Not safety ground - earth ground.
Any protector solution that does not include and discuss earth ground is typically a near zero protection. Often only for surges already made irrelevant by protection inside appliances. Destructive surge are how many thousands of joules? How many joules does that Tripplite claim to absorb?
Facilities that cannot have damage spend tens of times less money for a solution that harmlessly earthed destructive surges - hundreds of thousands of joules. That means a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection from each wire inside every incoming cable to earth. A connection made directly by a hardwire (ie cable TV, satellite dish) or via a protector (AC electric, telephone).
Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Tripplite will not discuss this. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground (not safety ground - earth ground).
BTW a surge often too tiny to overwhelm protection inside appliances can also damage tiny plug-in protectors. Undersizing a plug-in protector and the resulting failure often gets naive consumers to recommend that near zero protector and buy more. Because that tiny surge was also made irrelevant by protection inside each appliance.
Last edited:
Platonic Solid
Well-known member
westom - I didn't purchase the Tripplite solely for surge protection (though apparently it ***** for that). I assume it cleans up the power from the frequent brown outs and power outages that leave me running on generator power.
Please provide link to recommended whole house panel installed lightning worthy surge protector or setup.
Please provide link to recommended whole house panel installed lightning worthy surge protector or setup.
First, voltage can drop so low that incandescent bulbs dim to 40% intensity. Even that voltage is good for any properly designed computer.
Second, does not matter how 'clean' that power is. First a computer converts that 120 volts into high frequency 300+ volt spikes. Converts incoming AC power into some of the dirtiest electricity in the house. Then superior filters and regulators inside every PSU converts that 'dirtiest' power into rock solid, cleanest, and stable low voltage DC. IOW a Tripplite was only doing what every computer PSU should already do.
Effective 'whole house' protectors are distinguished by what is most important - a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to single point earth ground. Model numbers are completely irrelevant. A direct lightning strike may be 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. This does not define protection. This number defines protector life expectancy over many direct strikes or lesser surges. Since an effective protector must be fail even with direct strikes.
Protection during each surge is defined by what harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules - single point earth ground. Earthing is the 'art' of protection. All four words have electrical significance. Most questions should focus there. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground and an asociated 'low impedance' connection.
Manufacturers of these proven devices include names well respected for integrity including Siemens, ABB, Polyphaser (an industry benchmark), General Electric, Ditek, Intermatic, Leviton, Sysom, and Square D. A Cutler-Hammer sells in Lowes and Home Depot. In every case, a protector must have that dedicated wire for a connection to earth - often via a hardwire from breaker box to earth.
That is a 'whole house' protector for AC mains. Telco installs same in their NID (where their wires meet your) for free. Best protection for cable or satellite dish is a hardwire also connected low impedance to that same earth ground. Protectors only do what a hardwire does better - connect to earth.
Every layer of protection is defined only by earth ground. Above is a 'secondary' protection layer. Also inspect the 'primary' protection layer. A picture demonstrates what to inspect:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html
Noted earlier that earthing (not a protector) defined protection. A utility demonstrates some of this with good, bad, and ugly (preferred, wrong, and right) solutions:
http://www.duke-energy.com/indiana-business/products/power-quality/tech-tip-08.asp
Plenty more to learn. Bottom line: a protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Earth ground (not safety ground in a wall receptacle) absorbs energy - provides protection.
Provides are the numbers for any minimally acceptable 'whole house' protector AND what is most important - the earthing.
Don't quote part of my post and ignore the rest. I CLEARLY told him that I'd recommend a grounding rod, which in my experience solves nearly all incoming surges. I also told him to not buy an Onyko which has awful protection circuits AND I told him to buy a HDMI surge protector. I simply gave him advice to add three lines of protection in case one or two fail.
I wonder how much of this post you're going to delete to give you something to ramble on about.
First, quoted was enough to identify what was referenced. No reason to waste bandwidth quoting everything. Every relevant part was answered with reasons why.
Second, an HDMI protector would not provide a layer of protection. As stated multiple times. "An HDMI protector does not claim to protect from that type of surge." and "Because no protector does protection. An effective protector is a connecting device to what actually and harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules - earth ground. Not safety ground - earth ground." To provide protection, an HDMI protector must make a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to single point earth ground. It cannot if adjacent to an appliance.
To provide a layer of protection, an adjacent HDMI protector must somehow block or absorb a surge. How does it do that and still let signals pass through? It cannot.
Third, only installing a ground rod does not define protection - as stated multiple times with reasons (numbers) why. Which part was vague? Properly earthed protection works same for satellite dish or for cable TV.
Fourth, you even assumed a surge was incoming on an HDMI port without any reason to make that conclusion. You assumed only using observation combined with speculation. And have no reason to be offended.
493 scamp
Well-known member
Wouldnt an uninteruptable power supply protect the line voltage to the stereo? They can be had pretty cheaply. It wouldnt protect the other inputs or outputs though.
Protect by doing what? What voltage causes damage? An international design standard for electronics (long before PCs existed) has this expression in all capital letters in the low voltage region of a chart: No Damage Region. Low voltage does not cause electronics damage. Voltage can drop so low that incandescent bulbs can dim to 50% intensity. A voltage that low is normal voltage for all electronics - due to its power supply.
If voltage drops lower, electronics simply power off. Again, where is damage?
If voltage goes excessively higher, well, incandescent bulbs can increase intensity by 50%. Even a voltage that high is made irrelevant by what its power supply must do.
How often are your bulbs dimming or brightening that much?
A destructive voltage occurs maybe once every seven years due to a massive surge current. A typical example is a lightning strike. Read a UPS' specifications. How many joules does it claim to absorb? Destructive currents are typically carrying hundreds of thousands of joules. How many joules does a UPS claim to absorb? Hundreds? Hundreds is a near zero surge typically made irrelevant by what a power supply must withstand without damage.
A typically destructive surge is incoming to everything. If your stereo needs protection, then everything needs protection. Only proven solution is a properly earthed 'whole house' protector. For about $1 per protected appliance. Then hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate outside. Another anomaly best solved by something better and less expensive. Another anomaly that a UPS does not even claim to protect from.
So again, protect from what? Protect by doing what? UPS provides temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout. What else does it claim to do? A question that begs for an answer from that UPS' numeric specifications.
DC73
Well-known member
You have an "attitude" and "tone" that comes across poorly in your posts. Perhaps if you were actually here to help instead of to just demonstrate your knowledge, it would be better for all. You also failed to answer my questions.
DC
493 scamp
Well-known member
I agree with DC73 , and the power going to the stereo would be isolated as I thought and not "temporary and dirty"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply
what in that wikipedia article was being referenced? A typical consumer UPS connects a stereo directly to AC mains when not in battery backup. Then power is 'cleanest'. Making AC power from a DC battery is typically 'dirtiest' power.
Of course, that 'dirty' power is irrelevant. Any good stereo's power supply converts that power into a much higher voltage that is far dirtier. Then superior cleaning circuits and regulators convert 'dirtiest' power into rock solid and cleanest low voltage DC power. Best power cleaning is inside a stereo - never in a UPS.
Best transient protection at a stereo is inside that stereo supply. After all, where is power 'dirtiest' with high frequency, high voltage spikes? That 'dirtiest' power is intentionally created inside the supply. Then best protection converts 'dirtiest' high voltage spikes into low voltage, clean, and stable DC. Best protection at the stereo is already inside that stereo.
Your concern is a rare anomaly that can overwhelm superior protection. That anomaly easily blows through a UPS. It must be averted BEFORE entering the building. A rare anomaly that does damage cannot be averted at the stereo - especially not by a consumer UPS. The numbers.
A UPS does not and cannot isolate a stereo from destructive transients for many reasons. For example, wikipedia's article said a switchover can take up to 25 milliseconds. Destructive anomalies are done in microseconds. A millimeters gap in a UPS relay is too tiny and takes hundreds of times too long. No isolation exists. Again, those damning numbers.
If a UPS did that protection, then UPS specification numbers were provided. None were provided for one simple reason. Typical UPS is temporary and 'dirty' power only during a blackout. When a typical surge exists, that UPS connects a stereo directly to AC mains - no isolation. Protection, superior to what a UPS might do, is already inside each good stereo. Protection from anomalies that can overwhelm that superior internal protection must be located at the service entrance. How it was done even 100 years ago.
When some cannot understand technology, then some see attitude and tone. It only exists inside one who has failed to comprehend. Described repeatedly are various anomalies and what is required to avert them. Best hardware protection at a stereo is already inside that stereo. Protection from typically destructive anomalies (ie lightning) is impossible adjacent to a stereo AND must be properly earthed where wires enter a building. As demonstrated over 100 years ago. UPS does not and cannot provide that protection. No better recommendation exists. However many questions should exist. Since protection involves an 'art'.
Last edited:
493 scamp
Well-known member
Online/double-conversion[edit]
In an online UPS, the batteries are always connected to the inverter, so that no power transfer switches are necessary. When power loss occurs, the rectifier simply drops out of the circuit and the batteries keep the power steady and unchanged. When power is restored, the rectifier resumes carrying most of the load and begins charging the batteries, though the charging current may be limited to prevent the high-power rectifier from overheating the batteries and boiling off the electrolyte. The main advantage of an on-line UPS is its ability to provide an "electrical firewall" between the incoming utility power and sensitive electronic equipment.
The online UPS is ideal for environments where electrical isolation is necessary or for equipment that is very sensitive to power fluctuations. Although once previously reserved for very large installations of 10 kW or more, advances in technology have now permitted it to be available as a common consumer device, supplying 500 W or less. The initial cost of the online UPS may be higher, but its total cost of ownership is generally lower due to longer battery life. The online UPS may be necessary when the power environment is "noisy", when utility power sags, outages and other anomalies are frequent, when protection of sensitive IT equipment loads is required, or when operation from an extended-run backup generator is necessary.
The basic technology of the online UPS is the same as in a standby or line-interactive UPS. However it typically costs much more, due to it having a much greater current AC-to-DC battery-charger/rectifier, and with the rectifier and inverter designed to run continuously with improved cooling systems. It is called a double-conversion UPS due to the rectifier directly driving the inverter, even when powered from normal AC current.
No I do not understand the technology of grounding as well as you but I read this to mean that the inverter is supplying the power from the DC battery and isolated from the incoming AC current. Maybe this isnt what you call a typical UPS or is a false claim I dont know.
I am done with this thread good day sir.
In an online UPS, the batteries are always connected to the inverter, so that no power transfer switches are necessary. When power loss occurs, the rectifier simply drops out of the circuit and the batteries keep the power steady and unchanged. When power is restored, the rectifier resumes carrying most of the load and begins charging the batteries, though the charging current may be limited to prevent the high-power rectifier from overheating the batteries and boiling off the electrolyte. The main advantage of an on-line UPS is its ability to provide an "electrical firewall" between the incoming utility power and sensitive electronic equipment.
The online UPS is ideal for environments where electrical isolation is necessary or for equipment that is very sensitive to power fluctuations. Although once previously reserved for very large installations of 10 kW or more, advances in technology have now permitted it to be available as a common consumer device, supplying 500 W or less. The initial cost of the online UPS may be higher, but its total cost of ownership is generally lower due to longer battery life. The online UPS may be necessary when the power environment is "noisy", when utility power sags, outages and other anomalies are frequent, when protection of sensitive IT equipment loads is required, or when operation from an extended-run backup generator is necessary.
The basic technology of the online UPS is the same as in a standby or line-interactive UPS. However it typically costs much more, due to it having a much greater current AC-to-DC battery-charger/rectifier, and with the rectifier and inverter designed to run continuously with improved cooling systems. It is called a double-conversion UPS due to the rectifier directly driving the inverter, even when powered from normal AC current.
No I do not understand the technology of grounding as well as you but I read this to mean that the inverter is supplying the power from the DC battery and isolated from the incoming AC current. Maybe this isnt what you call a typical UPS or is a false claim I dont know.
I am done with this thread good day sir.
Power loss is not a destructive transient. When a destructive transient occurs, every UPS is typically connecting AC power directly to its load (ie stereo).
Second, a well understood concept is called superposition. What you assumed was isolation (ie battery) is actually a direct connection for a transient from AC mains to the load (ie stereo).
Third, even if AC power is lost, a transient simply goes right through those same rectifiers as if incoming AC power. Again, no isolation.
Fourth, if that isolation existed, then specification numbers were provided to define it. Demonstrated above is why that isolation does not exist and why specification numbers do not define isolation.
Any such surge, not earthed BEFORE entering a building, will pass right through those on-line, line interactive, etc UPSes. After all, if a UPS claims to provide isolation, then superior galvanic isolation, filters, and other features already inside a power supply have already done that better. Better isolation in its power supply is for electricity that is high frequency and higher voltage spikes. Any protection assumed in a UPS is already done better inside well designed electronics.
A concern is a rare anomaly that might overwhelm superior protection in a stereo. A completely different and well proven solution (that requires a low impedance connection to earth ground) means better protection (in a stereo) and less protection (in a UPS) are both protected.
Superposition, breakdown voltage, and other electrical concepts (even taught to first semester engineers) say why that UPS is not isolation. If that isolation existed, then spec numbers defined it. No numbers posted because that isolation only exists in speculation and hearsay.
Last edited:
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Westom- u have no idea what youre talking about when it comes to online double conversion UPSs....
U obviously have no experience and only cut and paste your responses.
I have workd in data centers that use online double conversion UPSs while destructive transients came in via the main electrical service.
UPSs alerted there was a problem with the utility power and dropped the incoming feed.
Nothing got fried....
U obviously have no experience and only cut and paste your responses.
I have workd in data centers that use online double conversion UPSs while destructive transients came in via the main electrical service.
UPSs alerted there was a problem with the utility power and dropped the incoming feed.
Nothing got fried....
Last edited:
A blackout is not a surge - despite what was only assumed. That UPS did what it was suppose to do - maintain power when utility had a problem. That is not a surge.
Second, normal is for a destructive surge to occur - and power remains on even without a UPS. You had a blackout - not a surge.
Third, if a double conversion UPS did protect from surges, then how much did it cost to replace air conditioners, smoke detectors, clocks, emergency backup lights, and many other appliances also not on a double conversion UPS? If double conversion UPS protected from a destructive surge, then what protected the security system? You have used selective reasoning - ignored some many other appliances that were damaged if a surge really existed.
Fourth, if a double conversion UPS did what was only assumed (since you did not design hardware), then computers protected themselves. No UPS protection required.
Fifth, facilities that cannot have damage always use something completely different. Since destructive surges can be hundreds of thousands of joules. No UPS claims to or can absorb that. Solution proven by over 100 years - 'whole house' protection - does. Even double conversion UPSes need that protection.
Unfortunately, IT people traditionally are electrically naive. Even assume a blackout is a surge. Essential to understanding this are concepts such as impedance. Did not even provide one UPS spec number - a classic symptom of junk science reasoning.
Where are those specification numbers for double conversion UPSes that claim to absorb hundreds of thousands of joules? Numbers do not exist. Observation created speculation. Even assumed that a blackout was a surge.
Defined was the only solution always found in facilities that cannot have damage. That is not a UPS. That post (and others) has many technical myths, subjective hearsay, and inconsistencies combined with wild speculation - as if a blackout is a surge. No facility, that cannot have damage, uses a UPS for hardware protection. UPS protects from blackouts. Blackouts do not fry hardware - despite your assumptions.
Last edited:
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Huh? I think u have a reading comprehension issue.
I never said anything about a blackout. No it wasnt a blackout.
For your information, yes other stuff in the building did get fried.
Calling someone electrically naive when u have no information about their background is very disrespectful.
For your information, not only do i do IT work but i am also an electrician. So youre assumption are very off base.
Why dont u put your foot in your mouth before u dig a bigger hole!
Not only was there a surge but the utility transformers were screwed up afterwords and kept floating the neutral(480Y/277 service) as well as one of the ungrounded conductors...
Do u have any real world experience other than being a keyboard commando armed with ctrl-c and ctrl-v? I assume youre an engineer or an engineering student...
Other peoples real world professional experience contradicts with a lot of stuff u say. U also contradict with lots of technical and white papers. Many others have previously pointed this out but u ignore it...
I never said anything about a blackout. No it wasnt a blackout.
For your information, yes other stuff in the building did get fried.
Calling someone electrically naive when u have no information about their background is very disrespectful.
For your information, not only do i do IT work but i am also an electrician. So youre assumption are very off base.
Why dont u put your foot in your mouth before u dig a bigger hole!
Not only was there a surge but the utility transformers were screwed up afterwords and kept floating the neutral(480Y/277 service) as well as one of the ungrounded conductors...
Do u have any real world experience other than being a keyboard commando armed with ctrl-c and ctrl-v? I assume youre an engineer or an engineering student...
Other peoples real world professional experience contradicts with a lot of stuff u say. U also contradict with lots of technical and white papers. Many others have previously pointed this out but u ignore it...
Last edited:
Posting vauge anomalies without numbers is a first indication of a kid who is pretending to be an IT professional.
Not listing what was damaged and why is subjective reasoning; also called specualtion.
Floating neutrals and other minor voltage variations are routinely made irrelevant by what is inside computers. Known to anyone who first learns the numbers. By refusing to provide facts with numbers, then you have no idea what caused the anomaly and why those computers would have protected themselves.
A completely different anomaly can overwhelm existing computer protection. That other and typically destructive anomaly is this thread's subject. No UPS (on-line, interactive, etc) claims to protect from surges that can overwhelm protection already inside computers or stereos. Protection from that type of surge has been defined repeatedly; technically with numbers. And without a demeaning attitude clearly found in your posts - that have no numbers because you have only speculated.
Type of transformer anomaly that he has implied (we cannot be sure because useful facts have been withheld) is one reason why a building's earth ground is important. And why informed IT people never ignore faults that even cause incandescent lights to change intensity. That can identify a fault before it causs damage. However that is irrelevant to the topic of this thread.
UPS does not claim to protect from the anomaly that is this thread's topic. Common is to read IT people discussing electricity as if expert. Those UPSes do not even claim to protect from anomalies that typically cause hardware damage - despite subjective claims made in advertising.
Even double conversion UPS needs protection using the proven 'whole house' solution - that is also recommended for stereo protection.
DC73
Well-known member
I understand technology and particularly this technology better than most. Your technical descriptions are over the head of most who post on this site. You have failed to provide technical documentation I can review to back up your claims (which might very well be valid) and have proven that you are NOT here to help.
I would encourage others to disregard your participation until you decide to actually help others and to not be here for the purpose of demonstrating your education or for ridiculing others.
DC
BruceMc
Well-known member
A quick Googling of "HDMI" and "lightning" shows there's been a pattern with the poster over the years in a number of different forums.
So which numbers do you need documentation for? Most of what was posted in based in basic EE concepts.
I cannot provide additional information if you do not state speicifically which concept escapes you? Which numbers need clarification?
DC73
Well-known member
Perhaps reading comprehension escapes you? My original question was in a previous post in this thread. Maybe you were so busy patting yourself on the back for being smarter than everyone else that you missed it.
DC
That question was answered with associated reasons and the numbers why. Apparently your technical knowledge is insufficient. An answer so confused you that your eyes glazed over. Again, if you really wanted a useful answer, then post that question again so that the answer can be explained in a simpler manner. But that means disposing of a nasty and emotional attitude.
Provided was a solution for protecting stereos even from direct lightning strikes. That solution, proven by over 100 years of science and experience, means a homeowner can even say where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Same solution applies to all other appliances. Unfortunately, that same answer says many, only manipulated by advertising, must admit that magic box plug-in protectors are ineffective. Many consumers get angry - attack the messenger - post nasty - rather than learn from their mistakes.
So, simply ask that question again explaining what part of the answer confused you - without attitude.
Last edited: