Third stereo receiver..lightning

[ModClean]

That question was answered with associated reasons and the numbers why. Apparently your technical knowledge is insufficient. An answer so confused you that your eyes glazed over. Again, if you really wanted a useful answer, then post that question again so that the answer can be explained in a simpler manner. But that means disposing of a nasty and emotional attitude.

Thank you westom, for being such a useful messenger, and without any nasty or emotional attitude. A true inspiration......

DC, I was waiting for a fascinating response from westom on your question. Looks like the messenger of truth will not be forthcoming, so I'll give it a shot, hopefully in far less than the thousands of words it has taken him to not answer.

As you're probably aware, the issue with sharp bends in lighting protection is unrelated to any fluid dynamics--as would be the case with pipes carrying gases or liquids--as there is no real momentum or mass to speak of, but is rather due to interactions in the magnetic fields surrounding the conductors during current flow--it is a reactive inductance concern. I do not have (nor could I find) any white papers where specific testing was performed to actually measure increases in impedance due to inductance, so I cannot say the magnitude of the effect. However, I can say it is widely accepted to be an effect worthy of consideration, and would be mentioned in just about any installation/engineering guide. It (reactive inductance) is overall a well-known electrical effect; I suspect if you delved into research in circuit design you could find in-depth discussion and research on the topic, as circuit boards must deal with highly restricted space and often also with high frequencies, both of which magnify the issue.

In a residential install it need not get overly complicated; basically just try to avoid sharp 90-degree bends by adding a radius. Shoot for a bend radius of 10x conductor radius or better.

 

[westom]

In a residential install it need not get overly complicated; basically just try to avoid sharp 90-degree bends by adding a radius. Shoot for a bend radius of 10x conductor radius or better.

Also critical are other factors such as wire length. Wire thickness has little relevance. Every foot shorter means a significance impedance decrease from protector to earth.

For example, if a bare copper ground wire from breaker box to earth goes up over a foundation and down to earth, then protection has been compromised. That connection has sharp bends over a foundation, is too long, and is adjacent to other non-grounding wires. Best grounding is that 6 or 4 AWG wire through the foundation and down to earth - to be shorter, less bending, and away from other wires. Reasons why were explained previously.

Another expression is "single point earth ground". Equipotential is an underlying concept. For laymen, an AC utility demonstrates it using good, bad, and ugly (preferred, wrong, and right) examples:
http://www.duke-energy.com/indiana-business/products/power-quality/tech-tip-08.asp

Lightning is typically 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. Because even direct lightning strikes must not cause damage even to a protector.

All this was discussed repeatedly, previously, with numbers, and referenced to a similar discussion elsewhere in Post 34.

Impossible to answer DC's confusion when so much good information was provided with numbers and when he could not even ask which part so confuses him.

These concept (ie wire with no sharp bends and that must be shorter; not thicker) is completely new to most. Which means these layman concepts can not be understood in a first reading. Questions specific to each point, number, or concept, and without accusations are necessary.

Demonstrated by ModClean and in these posts are examples of how to protect any stereo, computer, and every other household appliance.

 

[DC73]

That question was answered with associated reasons and the numbers why.

No it wasn't. As I suspected, reading comprehension escapes you. Below is the actual question(s) posed to you in Post #49. Note very carefully that I did not ask you to further explain your position. I asked if you had access to a technical paper I could review. Fail.

Do you have access to a technical paper that explains how bends increase impedance and the magnitude of that impedance increase?

Are you across the pond or in the southern half?

DC

DC

 

[DC73]

DC, I was waiting for a fascinating response from westom on your question. Looks like the messenger of truth will not be forthcoming, so I'll give it a shot, hopefully in far less than the thousands of words it has taken him to not answer.

As was I. Thank you for the excellent response. Our wordy friend with the superiority complex should take note of your response as the proper way to respond on this forum.

I do not have (nor could I find) any white papers where specific testing was performed to actually measure increases in impedance due to inductance . . .

Nor could I, hence my question.

However, I can say it is widely accepted to be an effect worthy of consideration, and would be mentioned in just about any installation/engineering guide. It (reactive inductance) is overall a well-known electrical effect;

I agree. Like of lot of things, the science is probably sound but if it is that big of a problem, there should be studies to confirm and document both the magnitude AND a reduction in electronic failures.

DC

 

[westom]

Below is the actual question(s) posed to you in Post #49. Note very carefully that I did not ask you to further explain your position. I asked if you had access to a technical paper I could review.

Considering the accusatory tone and a limited layman grasp, why would anything but a layman's summary be useful? You (and wyliesdiesels) did not even understand different grounds (ie safety ground and earth ground). So a technical paper would say what? But since you think it is important, more numbers:
Tower Strikes and Solutions

Assuming the wire gauge is #2/0, the inductance is approximately 0.32μH/ft. Knowing the distance, the inductance for each route can be calculated. Each 90-degree bend develops about 0.1mH of additional inductance. Each sharp angle has about 0.15μH inductance.

Bottom line does not change. That UPS does not do and does not claim to do effective hardware protection - no matter how one assumes a wikipedia article claims protection - which it did not. UPS does not 'clean' power as urban myths proclaim. Another white paper for layman makes that obvious:
UPS Risks

it is important to note there are several instances when these transients can bypass a UPS or Stand-by system, or pass directly through them to potentially damage the attached equipment.

All this and more was summarized at a layman's level. Causing an emotional backlash. Some will even post insults so as to deny they were scammed by urban myths. Only the naive believe that UPS provides hardware protection. Even manufacturer specifications do not claim it.

HDMI ports may be damaged by surges incoming on AC mains. Low voltage (ie brownouts) do not cause damage. That UPS does not 'clean' power. Protection already inside electronics is often more robust. Proven protection is always about earthing a destructive transient BEFORE it can enter a building. Always. Demonstrated were proven solutions including the 'primary' and 'secondary' protection layers. And many manufacturers of useful and effective solutions.

Also defined was why many get emotional rather than learn:

When some cannot understand technology, then some see attitude and tone. It only exists inside one who has failed to comprehend.

If you understood technology as claimed, then no reason existed to post numbers you would have known. What is relevant, new and difficult for many: best protection at an appliance is already inside that appliance. Transients that can overwhelm that superior protection must be connected elsewhere and low impedance to what harmlessly absorbs that energy.

Another accurately noted for layman to understand:

In a residential install it need not get overly complicated; basically just try to avoid sharp 90-degree bends by adding a radius. Shoot for a bend radius of 10x conductor radius or better.

Original posts asked about stereo and HDMI port protection. That must be installed and properly earthed at the service entrance. Since if anything needs protection, then everything needs that protection.

 

[DC73]

Considering the accusatory tone and a limited layman grasp, why would anything but a layman's summary be useful?

For the record, I am far from a layman. I've tried to get you to understand that your technical diatribes are not getting through to people because of your tone and attitude as well as your complete and total inability to impart your knowledge in a way that a true layman can understand and without ridiculing others. The failure is all yours.

The paper you linked to was not what I had in mind but then I didn't expect any better from you.

You continue to prove that you are not here to help and I see no reason for anyone to have any further discussion with you. With guys like ModClean and wyliesdiesels around, we certainly don't need you. You can have the last 10,000 words if you want.

DC

 

[westom]

I've tried to get you to understand that your technical diatribes are ...

Soundbyte answers are useless. Technical reality is found in multiple paragraphs with numbers. But some layman only want soundbytes. Then use a cheapshot expression - diatribe. Welcome to reality - only found in diatribes with numbers. Apparently even numbers have tone and attitude.

You asked about impedance even though would be too complex. Professional citation was provided anyway. It was too complex for you. Meanwhile impedance was repeatedly defined in a simplified manner. Low impedance is a short wire (ie less than 10 feet), no sharp bends, no metallic conduit, and other layman simple rules. Violate those rules to have no protection from destructive transients such as lightning. Even a UPS violates those rules.

You said, "I understand technology and particularly this technology better than most." Clearly you do not. You do not understand this technology, basic electrical concepts, and refuse to admit it. Ergo your tone and attitude.

Essential to hardware protection is a connection to and quality of single point earth ground. Any protector that has no such connection and that would magically block or stop such transients is ineffective. OP's best answer defined another and superior solution. Sorry that reality is hard. But then your purpose is to disparage, deny, and whine. Apparently you are good at it.