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Thoughts on if this floor will hold some machine tools?

Grant Gunderson

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May 17, 2013
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Bellingham, WA
Looking at leasing a commercial space for my business, and curious if this floor will hold the weight of my machines, Bridgeport Mill (2500#s), A monarch 10EE (3500#s) a ski tuning machine (up to 6000#s) as well as a bunch of lista cabinets, etc. Thoughts on what this floor could support?

"This building was built around 1930 and there is no record of engineering. We carried out an in depth remodel. We tore out the finishes to the studs in most of the building and fitted new wiring and plumbing. Engineering calculations were made for the earthquake retrofit on the exterior brick wall. The floors throughout are very beefy and everyone felt engineering calcs were not needed. In the past the floor held both cars and numerous large slabs and monuments of granite (we have pictures of this). In rhetorical past the space was used for vehicle repairs and for making granite monuments / tombstones.

The floors consist of car decking laid on top of 12 inch centered 3 X12 joists set on 12 by 12 wood beams, set apart 12 feet. So the 3 X 12 joists only span 12 feet. The only thing we found that gave us pause was that the 12 by 12 posts holding the beams were sitting on a thick slab and we were not sure if there were footings underneath, so during the retrofit, we lifted the structure and poured 4 by 4 by 3 foot footings under the posts. You can see these footings in the concrete basement floor under the space."

Here are some photos of the space, I don't have any of the area underneath it, that they described.
IMG_6705.jpegIMG_6709.jpeg
Front of the building is at ground level.
IMG_6712.jpeg
There is a walk out basement under it that houses offices.
IMG_6710.jpeg
 
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bornbadbob

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Jan 3, 2025
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Looking at leasing a commercial space for my business, and curious if this floor will hold the weight of my machines, Bridgeport Mill (2500#s), A monarch 10EE (3500#s) a ski tuning machine (up to 6000#s) as well as a bunch of lista cabinets, etc. Thoughts on what this floor could support?

"This building was built around 1930 and there is no record of engineering. We carried out an in depth remodel. We tore out the finishes to the studs in most of the building and fitted new wiring and plumbing. Engineering calculations were made for the earthquake retrofit on the exterior brick wall. The floors throughout are very beefy and everyone felt engineering calcs were not needed. In the past the floor held both cars and numerous large slabs and monuments of granite (we have pictures of this). In rhetorical past the space was used for vehicle repairs and for making granite monuments / tombstones.

The floors consist of car decking laid on top of 12 inch centered 3 X12 joists set on 12 by 12 wood beams, set apart 12 feet. So the 3 X 12 joists only span 12 feet. The only thing we found that gave us pause was that the 12 by 12 posts holding the beams were sitting on a thick slab and we were not sure if there were footings underneath, so during the retrofit, we lifted the structure and poured 4 by 4 by 3 foot footings under the posts. You can see these footings in the concrete basement floor under the space."

Here are some photos of the space, I don't have any of the area underneath it, that they described.
IMG_6705.jpegIMG_6709.jpeg
Front of the building is at ground level.
IMG_6712.jpeg
There is a walk out basement under it that houses offices.
IMG_6710.jpeg
I would spend the money and get an engineer in there to have a look, liability could be huge
 

larry_g

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Apr 28, 2007
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Location
oregon
Our old bank barn had 3x12 joists and near a 12" center. We drove full grain trucks in there to dump into the bins on the first floor. The third story, with the same floor, was near 20' tall and it was filled with hay. I would think you would be fine especially with the machines near the edges over the 12x12 beams. When putting machines in the upper floors in Singapore we used large maybe 36" square steel plates to spread out the point load of the feet. These were 10 to 15 thousand pound machines.

lg
no neat sig line
 

Beerhippie

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Oct 13, 2023
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Far NE Oregon
Our old bank barn had 3x12 joists and near a 12" center. We drove full grain trucks in there to dump into the bins on the first floor. The third story, with the same floor, was near 20' tall and it was filled with hay. I would think you would be fine especially with the machines near the edges over the 12x12 beams. When putting machines in the upper floors in Singapore we used large maybe 36" square steel plates to spread out the point load of the feet. These were 10 to 15 thousand pound machines.

lg
no neat sig line
That's great!

But, GG, consult an engineer....
 

dscheidt

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Apr 26, 2017
Messages
2,893
You need an engineer’s advice, but I don’t doubt it is up to it, assuming it’s sound. Buildings like that were used for all sorts of industrial uses.

I used to work in an old industrial building, built around the turn of the 20th century. It was constructed in a similar way, 3x4 subfloor (with 3/4 maple on top), substantial posts (the one by my desk was 18x18), huge beams, joists on ~10 centers. the landlord’s construction supervisor showed me pictures of rows and rows of machines, on the second floor, from the original occupant, who were making ornamental iron work, fire escapes, and such. Apparently, the exterior walls were just to hold up the roof and keep weather out, the interior was self supporting, and they extended the building a couple times, after they moved the foundry a short distance away — while still running the machines.
 
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AEAdam

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May 27, 2023
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SE PA
Yeah…an engineer can be hit or miss. Floors are designed for stiffness, not strength. What is the acceptable defection of a factory floor? L/180? L/360? And machine tools don’t represent a uniform distributed load. An engineer is liable to provide you with an acceptable live load in lbs/ft or maybe lbs/sqft.

You probably will need to put all that equipment directly on top of joists or maybe on monuments that span joists. The flooring between the joists could be the problem.

Architectural design/civil structural is weird. Loading is typically peanut buttered across floors. In vehicle design, we’d consider discrete loads. You sorta need the latter more than the former
 

neophyte

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Pennsylvannia
As others have mentioned, get an engineer in for liability reasons.

That said, various wood floors can hold way more weight than you might expect.
I would check the areas where the wood joists are mounted into the masonry.
Nowadays, coating the ends in contact with the masonry is standard, but that wasn’t alway the case.
Vibration from machinery may be another potential issue.
 

PCustoms

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VT
Has anyone said get an engineer?


I don't see any framing details on the photos shared. Unless I'm mistaken all the shots are showing the ceiling/roof of the space you will rent.
 
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Grant Gunderson

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Bellingham, WA
Hey guys, I reached out to a structural engineer I know, to get it evaluated. Wanted to see fi it was at least feasible before I pay him $$$ to calculate it. Waiting on getting the drawings sent over from when they re-did the building for seismic in 2017. His off hand concern without seeing it in person, or the drawings, was the high weight per square foot of the lathe. Did some research and my version of the lathe is only 200PSF, so that gets me closer, I then had the idea of spreading the weight out over a sheet of ¼ by 4x8 steel plate. That gets me down to only 104SQF. So hopefully he signs off on that. I haven't done structural calcs since college, but if I did it correctly, that floor should theoretically hold 700PSF mid span, so at 200PSF I have a safety factor of 3, and keeping the machines on the edges should be even better, but I'm still having it evaluated. At least then I'll know what else I can bring in machine wise in the future. Worst case scenario, I keep that lathe for home and find a smaller / lighter one for the shop, but after all of the time on my 10EE rebuild, I want to be able to use it daily.

IMG_6820.jpeg
This is the storage area under the shop. All of those beams / posts are 12x12 fir. They have 4'x4'x3' concrete footings under them. In the office space they left the beams exposed and they are beautiful old growth timbers. Looks like the beams / posts just hold up the floor, and the rest of the building weight is carried by the brick.
IMG_6826.jpeg
These I beams were also added for seismic in 2017, however looks like they just brace the wall and not the floor.
 

PCustoms

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If there was a seismic retrofit in 2017, aren't the plans stamped with a specific floor load rating?
 
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Grant Gunderson

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Bellingham, WA
If there was a seismic retrofit in 2017, aren't the plans stamped with a specific floor load rating?
Apparently the S.E., architect and contractors at the time were only concerned about the brick walls and didn't see a need to calculate the floor load. At the time a running shoe store was going in, so no concerns over load. At least they have drawings, just got to wait to get them.
 
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