Thoughts on portable torches?

[sgs]

I have a full sized set of torches but always rented tanks and since a move a few years back have never got around to setting up a contract and getting tanks.

Just pulled out the cart...plan was to check things over and finally get them back into service. Hoses are looking a bit tired and should probably replace them. So...need to spend some cash there. Suspect if hoses are tired then the seals in the regulators may also be a bit dried out.

Since I got a plasma cutter, the overall need for at least cutting is less but sure handy to have even if its just for that once a month or two need. But by the time I buy replacement hoses, buy or rent tanks I'll probably be at the price range of a set of portable tanks complete with torches, regulators, hoses and the holder.

Any suggestions on portable in general or brands to stay away from? What is the Tractor Supply set like as far as quality and value?

Gordon S.

 

[bad_idea]

Keep in mind acetylene tanks are only capable of outputting a certain amount of gas at a time based on the cylinder size. Something about the acetylene is in a liquid form in the tank and can only convert to gas so fast. Something like that. I don't know much, but I know the smaller tanks don't have the oomph the bigger tanks do.

 

[Zeke]

Lots of threads on this. Unless you're doing light work like silver soldering copper lines in a building installing A/C, you probably don't want these tanks. Look into the economics of refilling.

 

[zkling]

Are you talking about the little port-a-torch sets and the like? What do you plan on doing with it? They have been discussed to death on here as well as many welding forums. Handy, yes. Practical for shop use, not really. The smaller gas bottle are much more expensive ft^3 wise. If you just want to heat stuff to moderate heats a good size propane torch on a 20lb BBQ tank is pretty effective and economical.

 

[theknurl]

Keep in mind acetylene tanks are only capable of outputting a certain amount of gas at a time based on the cylinder size. Something about the acetylene is in a liquid form in the tank and can only convert to gas so fast. Something like that. I don't know much, but I know the smaller tanks don't have the oomph the bigger tanks do.

to quote the Victor chart;
"at no time should the withdrawal rate exceed 1/7 of the cylinder contents per hour"

the acetylene is absorbed into acetone in the filler in the tank and needs time/space to disassociate

 

[sgs]

If the picture comes through...I'm talking this size. ..maybe one size bigger. The odd heating of maybe flat iron for a bend. ..cut something plasma not ideal for etc.

Gordon S.

 

[Zeke]

to quote the Victor chart;
"at no time should the withdrawal rate exceed 1/7 of the cylinder contents per hour"

the acetylene is absorbed into acetone in the filler in the tank and needs time/space to disassociate

There has been some discussion lately on the subject. Seems some have re stated it as 1/10th. Then it comes to 1/7th or tenth of capacity or contents. If contents, then you are in danger every time you come near empty on a tank no matter what the size. Since the volume of acetone does not change, it should be 1/7th (or whatever) of the original contents. And it's not easy to calculate usage. Best to consult with the LWS with regard to your torch size and the cylinder you use.

The result is, of course, acetone leaving the tank and going through your regulator and hose. I can tell you from experience that it will ruin your regulator.

Many will also say that if an Acetylene tank is laid over on its side that you can't use it for several hours. I don't think this is altogether true. As soon as the liquids in the tank settle to the bottom, you should be good to go.

Since there is a porous mass inside the cylinder, it takes a bit for the solution of acetylene and acetone to migrate away from the valve. This is one reason an acetylene cylinder should never be more than horizontal. Vertical is preferred so the mass and liquid stay at the bottom. But it's not a Cardinal sin to carry a bottle laying down.

 

[firebox40dash5]

There has been some discussion lately on the subject. Seems some have re stated it as 1/10th. Then it comes to 1/7th or tenth of capacity or contents. If contents, then you are in danger every time you come near empty on a tank no matter what the size. Since the volume of acetone does not change, it should be 1/7th (or whatever) of the original contents. And it's not easy to calculate usage. Best to consult with the LWS with regard to your torch size and the cylinder you use.

The result is, of course, acetone leaving the tank and going through your regulator and hose. I can tell you from experience that it will ruin your regulator.

Many will also say that if an Acetylene tank is laid over on its side that you can't use it for several hours. I don't think this is altogether true. As soon as the liquids in the tank settle to the bottom, you should be good to go.

Since there is a porous mass inside the cylinder, it takes a bit for the solution of acetylene and acetone to migrate away from the valve. This is one reason an acetylene cylinder should never be more than horizontal. Vertical is preferred so the mass and liquid stay at the bottom. But it's not a Cardinal sin to carry a bottle laying down.

I'm not a chemist, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn last night. I was looking at getting one recently, and read some reviews on Amazon, and kept running across the 10% figure as well. Everything I've seen has said capacity, not contents. As the pressure drops (running really close to empty) the acetylene should be evaporating in the tank ahead of use, until it hits the balance of pressure vs. boiling point... I think. In other words, as the level drops and there's more "free space" in the tank (above the liquid level) there should be more gaseous acetylene to maintain the same pressure. Kinda the same reason you can't use a pressure gauge to judge level in a liquified gas tank worth squat.

I also checked out the one one of the neighboring shops had on the wall and offered to buy it. I was told that I didn't want it, it couldn't put out enough heat, and almost any use required a refill. Bummer, because the fullsize setup at the shop is pretty unwieldy, even on a cart.

 

[theknurl]

to quote the Victor chart;
"at no time should the withdrawal rate exceed 1/7 of the cylinder contents per hour"

the acetylene is absorbed into acetone in the filler in the tank and needs time/space to disassociate

There has been some discussion lately on the subject. Seems some have re stated it as 1/10th. Then it comes to 1/7th or tenth of capacity or contents.

I've been welding for 56 years......I quoted the Victor chart "form # 0056-04111" dated 2011 Thermadyne Industries Inc
www.thermadyne.com


you can do what ever you want

 

[2oolhound]

Check with your supplier, you pay for gas AND you pay a service charge when filling the tanks so the small tanks are not economical. Also you always run out of gas during a job. You will run out of gas during (in the middle of) a job more often with the small tanks. Unless you really need ultra portable or ultra small for a specific reason I would not buy those little ones.

 

[Zeke]

I've been welding for 56 years......I quoted the Victor chart "form # 0056-04111" dated 2011 Thermadyne Industries Inc
www.thermadyne.com


you can do what ever you want

I don't know why you're laughing while we are trying to be safe. Anyway, can't find any such chart.

 

[zkling]

I've been welding for 56 years......I quoted the Victor chart "form # 0056-04111" dated 2011 Thermadyne Industries Inc

The guy that taught me OA welding served in WWII (to give age), always told me of the 1/7th rule. I figured if he lived that long, it must be pretty safe. Can we atleast all agree that acet, should not be used over 15psig, or did that recently change as well?

Now here is the question theknurl, which do you turn off first, the O or the A?

 

[bad_idea]

Guys, please don't derail this thread into another safety nazi ******* contest. Please.

If you find the larger tanks unwieldy, buy a couple 50' hoses. (100' hoses are a PITA to roll up) I work in ship repair. We are required to keep all gas cylinders outside, whether on the flight deck or on the pier. If you are cutting a foundation up in a main space, you are looking at least 200' of burning hose. The point I am getting to is, it is easier to run a hose out to the yard or wherever you are burning than rolling the cart around.

 

[zkling]

If the picture comes through...I'm talking this size. ..maybe one size bigger. The odd heating of maybe flat iron for a bend. ..cut something plasma not ideal for etc.

Gordon S.

If all you want to do is heat and cut, I'd personally look at a Oxy propane setup. All you would really have to worry about is oxygen cylinder, which you could get a decent size one that easily fits in the trunk of a car. Then use a 20lb BBQ tank for your fuel source. Those small setups are not well suited to cutting at all. They run out super fast.

 

[Ign]

I got one of the little Victor port-a-torch setups for very quick field work, like quickly bending or tweaking something away from the shop. I use it rarely. Nice to have, not practical for frequent use. Lately I've been using it to light the wood stove in the shop tho; THAT is nice. INSTANT fire once you pull the cut lever!!! Not totally economically sound tho

 

[theknurl]

:
Now here is the question theknurl, which do you turn off first, the O or the A?

because I use a front handle torch, both at the same time

I hate torches with rear handles

 

[Flounder_Pounder]

Read a lot on subject on weldingweb etc and ended up asking the makers about what they have to say... here it is

My question
"
My wife purchased me one of you Portable Torch kits “Part Number: 0384-0939”
with Thoroughbred Cylinders from Tractor Supply in March.

Now my question is can I safely and without damaging my regulators use
this kit do cutting and welding appropriate for a size tips
supplied??? The supplied tips exceed the 1/7 rule for a MC size 10 CF
tank if I’m correct?
By my math and what I’ve seen 10 CF/7 = 1.47 CFH. well below the 3 CFH
to 6 CFH the manual shows as the withdraw rate for the cutting??

Answer
"Mr. Thompson:

Your math is correct.

You can safely use this kit for only a few minutes within the safety range.

This kit is for use with very short jobs, nothing prolonged.

At 3 scfh withdrawal, you could use this kit continually for approximately 20 minutes.

At 6 scfh withdrawal, you could use this kit continually for approximately 10 minutes.

If you need further assistance, please contact us at 800-426-1888, option number 2 for Technical Support, then option number 1 for Victor Equipment.

Thank you for your inquiry.

Tim Crews
Technical Support Representative

Other things I "learned/make since" to me is the bottles build up head pressure that helps with the withdraw and since they run out so fast you'll run out of gas before you'll exceed the 1/7 or 1/10 and if there was a serious danger I don't think the kits would be out there by the thousands

Travis T

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[vga]

Here is my 20+ yr old Smith kit that I will never sell of let get away. I have a Smith Aw1 and a Victor J 28 torch with many sizes of tips for different jobs. Small tanks be dammed it works, works well and I can carry it anywhere and I have carried it everywhere I have needed it with no problem. Since I am not attempting to cut through the steel bulkheads of ships with it I have had no problems.

 

[zkling]

That is a very nice setup VGA, those AW1's are really nice. What do you typically do with yours? Aren't those popular with the EAA and bike building guys?

 

[vga]

Thanks.I work on large tonnage chillers , York, Trane, Carrier frm 200 tons up to 2000 tons. Copper CDA piping , Copper HH water systems. For the large piping jobs I use this Victor FC 100 kit.