Three wire sub panel - Detached garage

[wayfast]

Thanks for the help. The conduit is 3/4". Here are some pics of the run.


This one is on the other side of the wall. Comes out under my deck.


Then it's a straight shot to the garage. The panel is under the light. (i'm standing above where the line comes out in this picture)




Got the rods in. Went easier than i thought, for being december in michigan...
They are 8' apart. (the conduit going into the garage is for the sprinkler system)





I had another question about the main breaker. Can i add another ground bar on the right side of this? there seems to be mounts for one. Would that be ok? I'm asking because if you look on the left side, it's a mess. I'd rather connect my new wiring to a new bar, instead of trying to deal with that. Do you think feeding a fourth wire through the conduit, with the other three wires in there would be doable? maybe i'll just leave it 40amps and run the ground wire.

 

[mm08822]

Based on what I see in the additional pics - leave the feeder alone! Somewhere underground the grc changes to pvc before it enters the garage. There is no easy way to cut in a j-box to the end of the grc conduit.

As for pulling out and pulling in new conductors, that LB under the deck(?)/flooring will be a b*tch to work. Too bad they didn't bore through the wall and come straight through into the basement.

Leave the feeder alone until you are one day needing more power out there and ready to abandon the old. Run the new one where you can locate it to have good working access to from panel to panel.

The grounding bar we were speaking of is for the sub panel. Currently, You don't need another in the main panel for this.

Your grd rods look fine. Just bury the conductor to the first rod as well.

 

[wayfast]

so at this point it would be easiest to just bond the neutral bar in the sub panel and wire up my two ground rods, and it would be safe? Will the #6 ground wire go right to the neutral bar? or somewhere else?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Based on what I see in the additional pics - leave the feeder alone! Somewhere underground the grc changes to pvc before it enters the garage. There is no easy way to cut in a j-box to the end of the grc conduit.

As for pulling out and pulling in new conductors, that LB under the deck(?)/flooring will be a b*tch to work. Too bad they didn't bore through the wall and come straight through into the basement.

Leave the feeder alone until you are one day needing more power out there and ready to abandon the old. Run the new one where you can locate it to have good working access to from panel to panel.

The grounding bar we were speaking of is for the sub panel. Currently, You don't need another in the main panel for this.

Your grd rods look fine. Just bury the conductor to the first rod as well.

He wants to add a ground bar to his main service (1st pic) so he has more room and to avoid the mess.

I dont see anything wrong with that.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

so at this point it would be easiest to just bond the neutral bar in the sub panel and wire up my two ground rods, and it would be safe? Will the #6 ground wire go right to the neutral bar? or somewhere else?

Yes #6 goes to bonded neutral bar.

Fix the other violations as well.

 

[wayfast]

Yes #6 goes to bonded neutral bar.

Fix the other violations as well.

Thank you.

I will do. I'll update when done to find out if everything is good to go.

 

[wayfast]

So the smallest size breaker with a hole in it for a hold down screw is 60amp. Is there any other type of hold down kit i can use on the BR type breaker? it seems like some people will drill a hole down the breaker for this, but that seems sketchy. Is that common practice?

 

[brewchief]

As long as the breaker in the main panel is a 40 amp you can change the one in the garage panel to a 60 that will work with the hold down screw, it is simply a disconnect at that point with the breaker in the main panel providing protection for the wire.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So the smallest size breaker with a hole in it for a hold down screw is 60amp. Is there any other type of hold down kit i can use on the BR type breaker? it seems like some people will drill a hole down the breaker for this, but that seems sketchy. Is that common practice?

Can u look at the feeder wire jacket and see what gauge it is? Post what u see here.

Looks like #8...good for 50a

 

[wayfast]

Can u look at the feeder wire jacket and see what gauge it is? Post what u see here.

Looks like #8...good for 50a

It is #8

Sent from my LGMS500 using Tapatalk

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It is #8

Sent from my LGMS500 using Tapatalk

Well u can upsize to 50a.

BTW which breaker does the wire go to in the main panel? Im not seeing it.

And upon looking at the main panel again, i see u have a double tapped breaker in the upper right hand side of the main service panel.

U need to fix that as well.

Since the wires are vastly 2 different sizes, this can create arcing and is a fire hazard.

 

[wayfast]

Well u can upsize to 50a.

BTW which breaker does the wire go to in the main panel? Im not seeing it.

And upon looking at the main panel again, i see u have a double tapped breaker in the upper right hand side of the main service panel.

U need to fix that as well.

Since the wires are vastly 2 different sizes, this can create arcing and is a fire hazard.

There are actually 3 double tapped breakers on the main. I will fix them, just will be too busy the next two days. But they are on the list.

On the main panel, the garage breaker is on the right side, fourth from the bottom.

the double tapped breaker you are talking about, the smaller wires are going to this box. What is it?

 

[wayfast]

So i was able to get a ground wire ran today.

Hows everything look?






EDIT:

No where local sells the hold down kit for the main breaker. It's in the mail.

 

[Bert_]

Just an FYI if that panel only has 6 spaces then there is no need for a main. You are allowed to have six disconnects (6 breakers with no main = 6 disconnects)

It doesn't hurt anything to have a main.

*If you have wires tapped ahead of the main please get that fixed soon as those wires have no over-current protection what-so-ever. Especially if those wire's run though the house. If shorted they will burn until they either melt enough that they no longer touch or pop the transformer fuse which isn't likely.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yeah looks like a 6/12 panel. If no more than 6 handles main can be eliminated.

BTW the neutral wire should be white jacketed and not phase taped since its smaller than #4.

 

[wayfast]

*If you have wires tapped ahead of the main please get that fixed soon as those wires have no over-current protection what-so-ever. Especially if those wire's run though the house. If shorted they will burn until they either melt enough that they no longer touch or pop the transformer fuse which isn't likely.

Can you explain this a little better please? what do you mean, "tapped ahead of the main"?
Thanks

Yeah looks like a 6/12 panel. If no more than 6 handles main can be eliminated.

BTW the neutral wire should be white jacketed and not phase taped since its smaller than #4.

Yes it's a 6/12 panel.

Oh well, it'll work for now.... lol maybe i'll swap it out soon.
Thanks

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The tape wont hurt anything just a code violation.

 

[wayfast]

The tape wont hurt anything just a code violation.

Yeah i know. It just ***** cause i was trying to do it right.

 

[Bert_]

There are actually 3 double tapped breakers on the main. I will fix them, just will be too busy the next two days. But they are on the list.

This comment is what I was talking about, but now that I read it again it sounds like you just have a breaker with multiple wires under it. I read it as you had 3 sets of wires stuck into the LINE side of the main breaker which is much more serious.

I didn't read it as closely as I should have, but I see that all the time were someone runs out of space in a panel and just sticks the wires in ahead of the main. If your lucky they at least put a fused disconnect or 2 space breaker as soon as they come out of the panel but I've seen wire run across a house with no disconnect.

 

[wayfast]

This comment is what I was talking about, but now that I read it again it sounds like you just have a breaker with multiple wires under it. I read it as you had 3 sets of wires stuck into the LINE side of the main breaker which is much more serious.

I didn't read it as closely as I should have, but I see that all the time were someone runs out of space in a panel and just sticks the wires in ahead of the main. If your lucky they at least put a fused disconnect or 2 space breaker as soon as they come out of the panel but I've seen wire run across a house with no disconnect.

Yeah you are correct. I was just referring to the main panel in the house having some double tapped breakers.

Thanks