Threshold Installation

[moparfreak]

Not sure if this belongs in here or Free Parking, but I am doing a minor WW project, which is to make a custom threshold to jump from our kitchen tile floor to our dining room hardwood floor.

The trouble really is with the height between floors, due to the way the subfloor needed to be built up to support the tile, it ends up raised about 3/8" - 1/2" from the finished wood floor height.

The transition length is rather long, about 7'2", so any of the transitions that were sold with that particular line of wood to match perfectly were too short (6' lenghts) and I didn't want a seam for visual reasons. The profiles they offered also weren't quite what I was looking for.

So, I decided to go with Mahogany, mainly because I really love the tight consistent grain pattern. I think that matches well with the solid bamboo grain that the wood floor is. I'll be stain matching it as well.

So I've got the profile I like cut and the piece fits nicely, but what I'm not sure of is what is the best way to install this. You can see here a view of how it rests on the transition from the sample piece I cut:

I know that adhesive such as PL won't stand up the foot traffic. It will need some sort of mechanical fastening such as nail or screw. The bamboo is incredibly hard & dense, but I can finish nail through it if I pre-drill the holes. I keep going back to screwing it in but I've always hated how transitions look when you can see those screw heads every 8". Finish nails would be more hidden and I could probably putty them over easier, but not as good holding power.

Either way, nails or screws, I have a 1/4" flat section before it angles down where the fastener would be installed.

While I'm typing this, another idea came to me, about possibly drilling & fastening up from the bottom up, where I have an exposed rafter basement. But that would be ooooh sooo tricky to get it lined up perfect! I could pre-drill holes down from the top first I suppose, but man that would be a feat....

Any suggestions on what the best way is to approach this? I feel a bit stumped.

 

[johnyg]

liquid nails on the tile...wood can float. worked for me, 10 years now.

 

[SteveH-CO]

I can't believe that a urethane adhesive (PL) on the tile section wouldn't hold just fine. I would not glue it to the adjacent wood floor - let it float on that. Do full contact gluing on the tile portion. Also, if the glue pops loose at some point, then use nails or screws as plan B.

I think blind-attachment from underneath is unlikely to work well (but I understand why you might try to go that way).

 

[moparfreak]

I think PL is really good stuff, no qualms about that. I use it for many things. Reason being is I used it for a similar application last winter when I re-did the kids hallway bathroom. It was the factory bamboo finished transition, only about 32" long, jumping from the tile across to the wood. Used PL to set it as I wanted fastener-less. It lasted about 7 months and has since popped loose.

I think when you're gluing onto tile, and with each tile slightly off in heights from each other, there ends up being gaps throughout, and when those gaps get stepped on, the cured glue just starts to end up getting cracked and de-bonds from the floor or transition piece. if it was slightly flexible / elastomeric then maybe but I'm skeptical of that route now that I've tried it once.

Yes, I'll admit I'm thinking seriously about screwing it down from underneath. I don't think it'd be quite so "blind" so to speak, as I'd be pre-drilling all the holes prior to setting the transition, so then I come in from the basement and pop screws into the holes that are already there and perfectly positioned, and as long as I have someone firmly keeping the transition in perfect place then I think it'd work? Or am I just trying to convince myself? I dunno...

 

[bradleykd]

I'd do it from underneath as long as it isn't right above a floor joist. Wouldn't that be some luck?!

 

[moparfreak]

The joists run perpendicular to the threshold, so that shouldn't be a problem, but there is a large I-beam in the basement that runs along the length of the house parallel w/ the threshold. Question is does the threshold lie directly over that steel I-beam? I don't think it does but it might be close...yes that would eliminate that option, but I'll look more closely at it tonight...

 

[volksnick]

Use finish screws!

Or recess and plug for wood screws. A plug cutter isn't going to break the bank.

I did a glue down on mine and it ended up breaking the transition strip in two when it finally gave away. I was on a concrete slab, so I didn't have much choice.


Most walls are built on top of joists, so I doubt you'd get that lucky to blind nail it.

 

[moparfreak]

If I can't get this to line up from the bottom I think I might have to get a plug cutter...getting the plugs to disappear might be tricky. I'll have to pre-finish the threshold then come back and do some touchup on the plugs. Not an area I've dabbled in before but I'll do it if it's my last resort.

 

[DieselNut88]

I would nail with small finish nails on an angle though the mitered section.

 

[larry4406]

Well the ship has sailed, but I like the surfaces to plane out without use of a reducer (aka trip hazard).

If in your shoes, I would lower it so it abuts the ceramic vertical edge vs topping it. Then grout your tile to the reducer as needed. You will hit the raised edge repeatedly if you leave it high.

Attached picture from my foyer where I used 3/8” AC plywood as the ceramic substrate which planes out perfect with 3/4” sand on site hardwood thus no reducer needed. Won’t help you this time though.

Since you are a wood worker, drill it, screw it, and plug it. Make sure your plug pattern is visually pleasing.

 

[johno]

Well the ship has sailed, but I like the surfaces to plane out without use of a reducer (aka trip hazard).

If in your shoes, I would lower it so it abuts the ceramic vertical edge vs topping it. Then grout your tile to the reducer as needed. You will hit the raised edge repeatedly if you leave it high.

Attached picture from my foyer where I used 3/8” AC plywood as the ceramic substrate which planes out perfect with 3/4” sand on site hardwood thus no reducer needed. Won’t help you this time though.

Since you are a wood worker, drill it, screw it, and plug it. Make sure your plug pattern is visually pleasing.

What he said about trip hazard.
My first thought when I saw it, instead of tripping going into the room, now you trip coming out of it.
Not a big improvement imo.

 

[moparfreak]

The lead edge is getting a back bevel along w/ a nose radius to reduce the lip that can cause trip hazard. Once all the lines are sanded it actually ends up looking more like a sweeping arc across from one edge to the other. The tiles unfortunately are not quite straight and level enough for me to do that type of reducer and come out happy w/ how it looks across the 7' opening. Originally way back when I had intended the floors to be level, but the subfloor under the tile needed an additional layer of OSB for reinforcement and stability before tiling, which raised it up & thus needing a step down.

Underneath from the basement, the subfloor is clean and accessible, so I'll try that and post some pictures once it's done hopefully.

SW did a great job stain matching, so once I'm done profiling it'll be several days of staining and poly 3 or 4 coats before I can set it in place.

 

[moparfreak]

Finished profiling it. With the back bevel, then round over, and a general sanding has it a gentle sweep from the top to the bottom. Now stain and a bunch of coats of poly.

 

[Hammer1963]

Double sided tape for automotive trim use works extremely well. If you ever have the need to remove the strip, you simply warm with a blow dryer or heat gun and use a plastic wedge and gently pry up

 

[moparfreak]

interesting idea, I assumed any double-sided tape wouldn't stand up to foot traffic. i assume you are referring to this stuff:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002JOVUO0/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[rustyjames]

I second the two sided tape. It comes in different thicknesses, you'll probably want to go as thin as possible.

 

[gnpenning]

3m VHB, very high bond. Costs a little more but should pay off.

 

[Firebrick43]

3m VHB, very high bond. Costs a little more but should pay off.

We use this at work to attach stainless tape to the top of linear ways. Awesome stuff. It's like epoxy in tape form!

 

[Slednut]

I like the, pre-drill and use finish nails. Fill the holes and you'll never see them.

It'll get marred up and will need to be removed and refinished or replaced.

 

[moparfreak]

I looked at this more closely. It looks like awesome stuff, but it's 0.045" thick which is just too much, I need the threshold pulled down tightly to the floor, no gaps. If it comes thinne I haven't been able to find it.

Ugh, in other news, I let the stain dry a day, then started with wiping polyurethane onto it, and it started pulling the stain off. So, I either needed to wait longer for the stain to fully dry out, or use a spray method. Now I've got to sand through a bit and re-stain, then recoat w/ a spray method rather than wiping method. Sets me back a few days.....

 

[gnpenning]

Knef cut a recess on the back.for the VHB to sit.

 

[moparfreak]

With the stain & finishing finally done, I installed it last night. I have to say, installing from underneath worked out beautifully. Tight and snug.

I predrilled the holes, each time determining the right spacing to make sure it didn't line up with a joist or utility or anything.

Then, I drilled pilot holes up into the threshold set to proper depth and drove the screws. I took the screws to the bench grinder and knocked off the first two threads on the tip. They don't have any holding power anyways and it reduced my risk of accidentally overdriving and coming up through the top of the threshold.

Used 2-1/2" Grex cabinet screws.

 

[Slednut]

That really looks nice, you'll be happy you didn't glue it down.

 

[manwithtools]

Well done! It's unfortunate to have such a height difference, but you did an admiral job addressing it.

 

[moparfreak]

thanks! no trips so far, real happy with it. It seems very solid. I'm going to try that method on the threshold in the bathroom that loosened up after I used PL to originally fasten.