Time to get the floor done- Questions, questions

[Patrick00]

Decisions are made, winter is coming, I'm ready to go.

Background: I have gone back and fourth for a few years now as to what kind of floor to put down in my garage. At one point or another I have contemplated just about every option out there. My choices came down to epoxy for it's durability, or VCT tile for it's looks.

Next week we close on a brand new house that has an over-sized 2 car garage and a free standing 1 car garage. Now I realized I no longer have to make a choice! I will epoxy the 2 car garage where the cars will park, and tile the 1 car garage which will be used as a workshop and as a home for the kids' bikes. Here are my questions:

Epoxy-
Acid Etch: I am a little confused/concerned about the acid etch. Do I need to neutralize the acid after applying? I have seen several threads about this. Some say neutralize with baking soda. Some say the rinse water neutralizes the acid. Any advice?

What about the mixing specifications? Should I make a stronger batch to get a good etch?

Also, I was in Lowes the other day and saw 2 kinds of acid. Both the same brand. 1 was "green" and said it had 90% less fumes as regular acid. Sounds good, but will it still work as well? Anybody tried it?

Epoxy over the perimeter expansion joints?

Flakes: Are all flakes created equal? Is there such a thing as good/better/best flakes? As long as the colors match will the flakes you see at the Home Center be the same as the flakes that come in the epoxy kits?

VCT-
Control Joints: These will need to obviously be filled before tile installation. Should I just use a Quickrete concrete patch to fill the joints? Can I get it smooth enough? I have read that even the smallest piece of dirt trapped under the tile will telegraph through. Would a vinyl floor patch work better? would it dry as hard as concrete patch? Backer rod or no backer rod?

Expansion Joints: The joints around the perimeter have that felt type material. Tile over it or just up to it and cover it with a baseboard?

Adhesive: Having a hard time finding the recommended Armstrong VCT adhesive (S-570?). The home centers carry a VCT specific adhesive. Is that acceptable?

I can't begin to tell you how much time I have spent on this site since I found it back in the spring. I would really value the opinions of everybody to help my project turn out as good as some of the garages I have seen here!

 

[AlphaGarage]

The acid is neutralized by exposure to oxygen, the calcium in the concrete, and it's diluted by water. Baking soda also neutralizes it and is so cheap and easy there's no reason not to use some.

You don't want the acid to be too strong, it causes dangerous fumes and can over profile, which may need more epoxy to smooth out. Also there's more chance that some acid won't be adequately neutralized.

There are muriatic acid substitutes, some work well, some not so well.

For the perimeter felt I'd cut it down so there's about 1/2 inch grove, and fill that groove with a flexible epoxy. Then just coat over the entire floor including the patched perimeter.

Flakes are not all the same, some are a bit stronger, some are more colorfast. Those details matter for some jobs, but not all.

 

[munkey]

I have seen several threads about this. Some say neutralize with baking soda. Some say the rinse water neutralizes the acid. Any advice?

Any acid-base reaction should yield water + some sort of salt. In this case, your concrete is the base. If the acid is working as intended, it should be reacting with the concrete and the byproducts will be more or less pH neutral. I was overly cautious and discovered that trying to "further neutralize" it just made a big slurry mess and didn't really do anything; but, my space didn't have a drain and was more difficult to clean than the average modern garage, so if its easy for you and gives you peace of mind, go for it...

What about the mixing specifications? Should I make a stronger batch to get a good etch?

You might have to; my experience is that it depends on the exact makeup of your concrete, which you won't really know until you try it. Start with the recommended dilution, which is fairly weak, and if it doesn't leave a sufficiently aggressive profile, you might have to kick it up. Towards the end of my prep I was using it almost full strength to get the results I wanted.

Also, I was in Lowes the other day and saw 2 kinds of acid. Both the same brand. 1 was "green" and said it had 90% less fumes as regular acid. Sounds good, but will it still work as well? Anybody tried it?

I had this same dilemma (I know exactly which two bottles you're talking about) and I actually tried them both since they are relatively cheap. If I was using acid again, I would use the "green" version just because it does produce noticeably less irritating fumes and had about the same results. (As long as it fizzes upon application, it is working properly.) Use caution either way, but keep in mind that the white/orange bottle of "real stuff" is probably the nastiest chemical you can buy at Lowe's. Splash goggles are mandatory.

In practice, when I actually had to do it again, I rented the handheld Bosch 1773AK grinder and mechanically ground the surface. Or rent the Edco walk-behind model, if you can afford it and have a buddy to help you lift it in and out of a truck. The results are just so much more predictable and consistent compared to using acid, which is much trickier to work with than it sounds like. With the acid, no matter how careful you are, you'll see areas where you poured it out heavier, areas you wish were done better, etc., and fixing them up is a hit or miss guessing game.

 

[Patrick00]

How do I stop the acid from etching my driveway? The garage floor has a slope for drainage. Tape off with plastic? Wet the driveway first? Brand new house- don't want to mess anything up before we even move in!

 

[rwhite692]

Having just done VCT I can tell you that it is pretty forgiving...

I don't know how wide your control joints are...If they are the big wide 1/2" formed control joints (made when the concrete was still wet) I could see them telegraphing through your tile eventually.

In my case I had about 3/16" wide, saw-cut control joints, I crammed foam into the joints about 3/4" down, and then filled with a self leveling, elastomeric control joint sealant made by Quickrete and sold at Lowes in the big-sized caulking gun cartridges. Skimmed off any excess with a putty knife and allowed to dry.

I used the Henry 430 VCT adhesive (available at Lowe's) on the advice of a local guy that lays acres of VCT for a living....he uses it on all VCT regardless of tile brand...mine happened to be Armstrong.

I have not been able to detect any telegraphing through of the control joints. Maybe they will be visible 5 or ten years from now?

There are some pics in the thread below, towards the end.

 

[Patrick00]

Yes, they are the wide ones from when they poured. Does the elastomeric control joint sealant dry hard or is it flexible? I don't want to roll something heavy over the joint and have the tile crack.

 

[rwhite692]

It is flexible. I think in your case (big control joints) you would want to fill those joints with a much harder compound, such as what Wolverine sells for that purpose for those whom are doing an Epoxy floor. That stuff is very hard but does allow for some flex.