Ton ton
Well-known member
More in the $230 retail range @ brick and mortar store. It was not me who resurrected this thread from the dead. But I appreciate whoever did the resurrection.
- Thread starter Ryan
- Start date
dutchgray
Well-known member
I don't think Douglas did titanium, only the Dalluge (Vaughan) made to the same design are titanium and I think the very early ones made and sold by Hart (as Hart "Woody") were steel.
Lassen Forge
Well-known member
I was fascinated enough to get one years ago, It worked well the short time I owned it, but it fell down between a false wall made of dimensional 2x8 supporting the roof above bolted to the concrete retaining wall holding the hill back with a spacer to allow for drainage that was about one hammer's width thick, and about 7 feet down. (I was hanging new lights, set it down and it endovered right into the slot... I'm sure (unless they tore down the garage) it's still down there somewhere, but that was the ONLY way I was going to get it back...
That was the first and last Ti Hammer for me. I've had Ti tools (and copper-beryllium tools) supplied by the job, but it's just a bit too pricey for me.
Resurrected by a 1 post 1 hit suspected AI bot who came, saw, posted, and left within the hour and hasn't been seen since.
That was the first and last Ti Hammer for me. I've had Ti tools (and copper-beryllium tools) supplied by the job, but it's just a bit too pricey for me.
Resurrected by a 1 post 1 hit suspected AI bot who came, saw, posted, and left within the hour and hasn't been seen since.
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pl_silverado
Well-known member
I bought both the 15 oz and 14 oz versions back in 2019 when i started my project. Expensive yes, but no regrets. I'd buy them all over again.
I've always heard Titanium hits harder then steel, so a 14oz Ti hammer might hit like a 20oz steel?
Also you don't see very many carpenters swinging big hammers...well not if they care about their shoulders at least. If I remember correctly 20oz was about max you saw most guys driving nails with.
Also you don't see very many carpenters swinging big hammers...well not if they care about their shoulders at least. If I remember correctly 20oz was about max you saw most guys driving nails with.
bwringer
Well-known member
Fourteen years -- is that a GJ grave digging record?
Worth talking about, I guess. As a grubby home amateur, I can barely remember the last time I used a hammer to drive a nail. But if you're driving nails all day, these things are apparently the entire cat's ***, as long as you are one of those magical people who doesn't lose hammers left and right.
Worth talking about, I guess. As a grubby home amateur, I can barely remember the last time I used a hammer to drive a nail. But if you're driving nails all day, these things are apparently the entire cat's ***, as long as you are one of those magical people who doesn't lose hammers left and right.
Damon L.
Well-known member
Say what you will about the hammers, but this little prybar is the bee's knees to keep in the handyman bag.
www.stiletto.com
When I was contracting full time, a guys I was working with had one of these and it was killer for those times when only a little bar will fit, but you need big leverage.
7-1/2 inch Titanium Glazer Bar
STILETTO® 7-1/2 inch Titanium Glazer bar is a strong, pocket-size prybar ideal for setting windows and doors, moderate prying, and scraping.
When I was contracting full time, a guys I was working with had one of these and it was killer for those times when only a little bar will fit, but you need big leverage.
pl_silverado
Well-known member
15oz one hits like a big 20oz framer. The weight difference is very noticeable, and your arm will thank you for it. I haven't even looked at my other pile of hammers since.
pl_silverado
Well-known member
Say what you will about the hammers, but this little prybar is the bee's knees to keep in the handyman bag.
7-1/2 inch Titanium Glazer Bar
STILETTO® 7-1/2 inch Titanium Glazer bar is a strong, pocket-size prybar ideal for setting windows and doors, moderate prying, and scraping.
When I was contracting full time, a guys I was working with had one of these and it was killer for those times when only a little bar will fit, but you need big leverage.
Agreed on the little prybars from them too. I have two different ones.
ObnoxiousFumes
Well-known member
Yep my buddy’s dad builds houses and I tried his a couple times while I was helping him out for a couple weeks, this thing is a beast for how light it is, feels amazing to use!
Saw the same one at the local Home Hardware, well over $300 CAD now
fastev
Well-known member
Bought one when they were first introduced and I was framing. Mine was before the replaceable faces were offered and I used it enough to turn the waffle face flat.
I was a young buck in those days and would cut all my framing hammers to 14.5” long as it was a quick layout tool for studs. Still was noticeably easier to swing all day long vs my Vaughans.
Those days are far behind me, and I still have my first Stiletto. It was eventually joined by another, with a replaceable face, that I’ve used extensively in my remodel. Not for everyone, but everything to some.
I was a young buck in those days and would cut all my framing hammers to 14.5” long as it was a quick layout tool for studs. Still was noticeably easier to swing all day long vs my Vaughans.
Those days are far behind me, and I still have my first Stiletto. It was eventually joined by another, with a replaceable face, that I’ve used extensively in my remodel. Not for everyone, but everything to some.
ObnoxiousFumes
Well-known member
Never heard that one before, good way of explaining it though.
Ton ton
Well-known member
I bought a 15oz. used keep it in the toolbox for the most part. Scared someone else is going to claim it when I lay it down so I use a Stanley fatmax or harbor freight special for the everyday purposes.
InjectorService
Well-known member
Check out the Martinez hammers. Made by the same guy that started Stilleto. He sold Stilleto and started Martinez. Good to support a smaller company. And I think they are better hammers too.
Ton ton
Well-known member
Someone needs to start a Martinez hammer thread to tide us over the next 14 years. I have never seen a Martinez hammer in real life.
I feel like Martinez only makes metal handled hammers. I’ve never used one, aside from my trusty Estwing. I have the wood handled stiletto and really like it. It has a big grip and a really nice shape. I could see how pro framers might want the indestructible Martinez.
I typically frame using a Hitachi air nailer, and only hand nail to correct the Hitachi, or for temp attachments etc that a nailer can’t do. For this, my Stiletto excels.
While I buy into the shock absorbing qualities of titanium hammers, what I like most about my hammer is that it doesn’t pull my pants down. My tool belt is probably over 5lbs without fasteners or power tools. Doesn’t sound like much, but climbing scaffolding, ladders, even just working with extra weight strapped to you isn’t easy. Hard on your back. Suspenders help. My hammer is a good 1lb lighter than the alternative. It’s half the weight of a comparable steel hammer.
snickers muncher
Well-known member
I've got one of the third generation solid titanium Stiletto hammers. I really like the light weight and reach.
www.garagejournal.com
New Stiletto TiBone 3 hammer
I just got in a 15 oz. TiBone 3 Milled Face Curved Handle hammer. I haven't seen them anywhere else, so I thought I'd a few pics real quick. The second generation had a problem with the head coming loose and they claim to have solved it. There's a wedge washer under the bolt head and the nail...
www.garagejournal.com
Ton ton
Well-known member
Thank you for sharing your experience with Stilleto framing hammers.
finn
Well-known member
The force that the fastener (mail) sees is the product of mass x velocity. Basic high school physics here.
A titanium hammer will accelerate faster with the same muscle exertion, so the velocity at impact will be higher than a heavy hammer. Apparently the trade off is sufficient to enable the lighter titanium hammer to outperform the heavy hammer, or, rebalancing the equation, a man can be more productive swinging a lighter hammer with less wear and tear on the shoulders.
A titanium hammer will accelerate faster with the same muscle exertion, so the velocity at impact will be higher than a heavy hammer. Apparently the trade off is sufficient to enable the lighter titanium hammer to outperform the heavy hammer, or, rebalancing the equation, a man can be more productive swinging a lighter hammer with less wear and tear on the shoulders.
snickers muncher
Well-known member
No to knit pick, but I think it's Mass X Velocity squared, so the speed has an even larger effect than you alluded.
It's a Kinetic energy vs momentum thing.
finn
Well-known member
Correct. Just tried to keep it simple.
Math and physics sometimes aren’t this groups strong points, I have learned on several occasions.
Its mass X velocity. And no way you can swing a ti hammer twice as fast as a steel hammer. I think I swing mine no faster than steel so I generate less force. The advantage of the ti hammer comes after the nail is struck. The softer face pushes the nail a little like a deadblow. So all the momentum is imparted, but the force is FAR less, which means less shock. Said simply, the advantage of a Ti hammer (besides not pulling your pants down) is decent driving power with FAR less shock, resulting in less elbow strain.
The equation is:
mv = SFdt
As compared to steel the softness of the head makes the time (dt) longer, which greatly reduces force (F). The manufacturers' claim mv is the same as a steel hammer because you can swing it faster, but I don't believe that and I can't. That said, by the end of a long day, I can probably swing my Ti hammer faster than a steel hammer.
BTW, my hammer was about $90 6 yrs ago and it’s roughly the same now. Some of the Martinez models are over $300. A decent hammer at home depot could be $50, so the Ti wood handled stilettos aren’t that much of an extravagance.
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Ton ton
Well-known member
The most expensive framing hammer that I noticed @ Lowe's in Gainesville, Virginia was roughly $ 45. It was Tough built made in China. The USA made hammers were cheaper.
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When these hammers started gaining popularity the argument that was being used was you can swing a lighter hammer faster.
That may be true, but….
There’s plenty of lighter weight steel head hammers on the market. Vaughan has offered a 19 oz in the California framer pattern for years. Estwing offers several 19 oz options as well.
But you never see them on jobs it’s. What you see is 16 and 20 oz smooth face Estwings being used as general purpose and exterior trim hammers. These are the shorter handle versions with the 13 3/4” handles. These hammers are common as dirt and while either are capable of driving larger nails or even framing a house they really shine driving 8 penny or smaller nails in applications where you don’t want the material damaged by a milled face. They are also popular as general purpose hammers as they are lighter, shorter and easier to carry than an actual framer.
Traditionally framing hammers start at 22 oz and have longer handles. Longer handles deliver more nail driving power and more reach. When I started 28 oz estwings were what dominated most job sites. As nail guns gained popularity hammers started to get lighter. Contrary to popular belief not all framing hammers have milled faces. Traditionally smooth face framers were used for applications like deck building.
Now circling back to 19 oz framers. Assuming the selling point of titanium hammers is the idea that a lighter hammer swings faster thus hitting with equal force as a heavy hammer. One could safely assume that same principle would apply to lighter weight steel heads. Well that isn’t exactly true and quite frankly I don’t buy into either argument.
In modern construction the nail gun is king. Although there’s plenty of applications for a hammer on a modern site. Nailing where using a gun would be awkward or dangerous. Tight locations where the gun won’t fit. Temporary tacking things to get ready for the nail guns. Beating blocking or bracing into position. Striking other tools such as prybars or chisels. The list goes on and the role of the hammer has changed.
Practically no one is going to drive 50 pounds of cement coated 16s in a day in 2023. Being as such the demand for the traditional heavy framing hammer has dropped.
I still see plenty of 22, 23, and 24 oz steel hammers in use. I don’t think titanium is going to take the market over. They’re a nice option for a targeted end user.
That end user isn’t the weekend warriors driving 5 pounds of nails over the course of the summer. On the flip side it’s not really professionals either. It’s a niche market. It’s a lot like high end pocket knives and expensive watches. Neither of which I am a fan of but I can appreciate the quality.
That may be true, but….
There’s plenty of lighter weight steel head hammers on the market. Vaughan has offered a 19 oz in the California framer pattern for years. Estwing offers several 19 oz options as well.
But you never see them on jobs it’s. What you see is 16 and 20 oz smooth face Estwings being used as general purpose and exterior trim hammers. These are the shorter handle versions with the 13 3/4” handles. These hammers are common as dirt and while either are capable of driving larger nails or even framing a house they really shine driving 8 penny or smaller nails in applications where you don’t want the material damaged by a milled face. They are also popular as general purpose hammers as they are lighter, shorter and easier to carry than an actual framer.
Traditionally framing hammers start at 22 oz and have longer handles. Longer handles deliver more nail driving power and more reach. When I started 28 oz estwings were what dominated most job sites. As nail guns gained popularity hammers started to get lighter. Contrary to popular belief not all framing hammers have milled faces. Traditionally smooth face framers were used for applications like deck building.
Now circling back to 19 oz framers. Assuming the selling point of titanium hammers is the idea that a lighter hammer swings faster thus hitting with equal force as a heavy hammer. One could safely assume that same principle would apply to lighter weight steel heads. Well that isn’t exactly true and quite frankly I don’t buy into either argument.
In modern construction the nail gun is king. Although there’s plenty of applications for a hammer on a modern site. Nailing where using a gun would be awkward or dangerous. Tight locations where the gun won’t fit. Temporary tacking things to get ready for the nail guns. Beating blocking or bracing into position. Striking other tools such as prybars or chisels. The list goes on and the role of the hammer has changed.
Practically no one is going to drive 50 pounds of cement coated 16s in a day in 2023. Being as such the demand for the traditional heavy framing hammer has dropped.
I still see plenty of 22, 23, and 24 oz steel hammers in use. I don’t think titanium is going to take the market over. They’re a nice option for a targeted end user.
That end user isn’t the weekend warriors driving 5 pounds of nails over the course of the summer. On the flip side it’s not really professionals either. It’s a niche market. It’s a lot like high end pocket knives and expensive watches. Neither of which I am a fan of but I can appreciate the quality.
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My local Lowes recently did a hammer reset. Dropped Vaughan, really scaled back on Estwing and filled the empty slots with imported options. It’s sad.
On the flip side they’ve really scaled back the Craftsman hand tool options and started stocking more Lennox and channel lock
neophyte
Well-known member
Craftsman to Lennox is just Stanley brand to Stanley brand.
dutchgray
Well-known member
In the UK the Estwing 20oz curved claw has been a very common carpenters hammer for decades, or something cheaper but virtually all 20oz curved, actual framing hammers are all but non existant here, there's probably more nowadays thanks to the influence of the Internet but almost nobody hand nails nowadays anyway. When I started in 2004 it was years before I saw someone using a "framing" hammer.
Speed squares were rare then as well but have become common since, I know a guy who brought a couple back from a visit to the USA in 1989, it was a completely new tool to him.
I ruined my hand driving nails with my Estwing hammer, I would get to the point during the day where it was impossible to open my fingers to put the thing down, had to use my other hand to break them open.
Agree but Lennox seems to be better quality
Curved claws are strictly finish hammers here and even then not common. You see homeowners with cheap 16 oz curved claw hammers. Seeing a pro with a curved claw is rare.
dutchgray
Well-known member
It's the other way here, seeing a pro with a straight claw is rare. It might be because we traditionally build with masonry and really only roofs and internal stud walls are timber.
Modern house building has a lot more timber framing in it but those are all done with nail guns.
You can get 24oz curved claws and those are plenty heavy enough on the ~14" or so standard length handle.
I guess we never had a need to develop the standard claw hammer into what the USA calls a framing hammer.
pcmeiners
Well-known member
Just purchased a STILETTO® 14oz titanium hammer, 5oz lighter than my steel hammer I use. Does not sound like much but much better when using over head. Wish they made a 12oz, but they do make a 10oz, but the 10 oz is really pricey.
My son took a carpentry class at our local community college. I took him to Home Depot to buy a hammer and he chose the 14oz DeWalt mig welded hammer. It has a rubber grip shaped like my Stiletto. DeWalt claims the weld dampens shock like the titanium. It’s currently $54 in my local depot.
it’s a nice hammer actually.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I have that one and the 16 oz which is a lot smaller. Both are comfortable, but I do find myself going for the 16 more often
ObnoxiousFumes
Well-known member
I think that’s the one my buddy has, nice piece (he’s also the son of my friend that owns the Stiletto lol).
kaymccampbell
Well-known member
A 22 ounce framer would be the size of a sledge.