To Baldor or not?

[Jeff Ivers]

I am an avid DIYer and work on a wide variety of projects. Much lower skill level than Don at the Big Party Garage. But I do find a need to occasionally clean up something on a wire wheel or buffer. Several years ago, I bought an Eastwood 1/2 hp buffer motor and used it for several years until it started developing a weird vibration and then failed when the base cracked apart. I bought another of the same unit and it is starting to develop the vibration issues. I typically run this with an 8" wire wheel on one end and a buffer wheel on the other. From reading here and elsewhere, Baldor seems to be the Cadillac of this genre, but man are they expensive! Am I causing the failure by running the wire wheel on one side? Has anyone tried the Vevor 2-speed unit that is also 1/2 hp, but 1725/3450 rpm? Should I spend my kids inheritance and get a Baldor and if so, which one?

 

[dchawk81]

Surely there's something decent somewhere between cheap Chinese junk and a Baldor.

 

[threepiece]

Are you sure the vibration is not caused by the loss of wire? There are other good motors besides Baldor. I suspect the Baldor grinder motors are specially balanced beyond their industrial line.

I find good motors of nearly any size at the scrap yard, sometimes new/unused. I pay about $1 per pound for them.

 

[paulsomlo]

I can't believe that the Vevor would be any better than the Eastwood - I would look for a used USA made one.

 

[pcmeiners]

Check out Ebay or FB for used Baldor grinders. 1/2 hp is not a lot of grinder hp, had a number of 1/2hp which did not do the job I need done,, 3/4- 1 hp is a good starting point. Don't know OK as to FB but around my area there are many Baldor grinder up for sale. Even the oldest Baldor at most need a bearing change or cleaning.

 

[carlaisle]

What is causing the vibration? Seems like a little preventative maintenance might be all you need.

 

[TRWham]

Maybe check out Grizzly.

 

[Ike Carlson]

Vibration in something like that is usually from lost material, like wire or cloth. And you have to remember that those wheels are not balanced even when new, so it only gets worse. You need more mass at the end of the shaft to dampen the vibration or a ball-filled ring to balance it.

 

[NUTTSGT]

FWIW, it's not your kids money until you die. Until that point comes, live your life, enjoy and buy what you want. If you want to spend your $$ on a Baldor motor, have at it.

 

[zendriver]

Not a buffer, but I have an older Baldor grinder. Not much different than the other the older Cman grinders, I have.

No way would I pay 10x as much for one, but it ain't my money.

 

[1982fxr]

Any machine that breaks itself due to the imbalance of a wire wheel is a *************.

You don't necessarily need a Baldor. All the old USA 1/2 HP machines are going to be strong runners, depending on the exact unit's condition, of course.

 

[1982fxr]

Check out Ebay or FB for used Baldor grinders. 1/2 hp is not a lot of grinder hp, had a number of 1/2hp which did not do the job I need done,, 3/4- 1 hp is a good starting point. Don't know OK as to FB but around my area there are many Baldor grinder up for sale. Even the oldest Baldor at most need a bearing change.

What were you working on where that wasn't enough?

Not doubting you, asking for the OP. A half Horsepower USA grinder is a good machine for most people.

 

[Steve_P]

I've had a 1/2 HP China? made Craftsman import buffer for 20+ years- it's fine. I'd buy something by Jet, Grizzly and not Baldor unless you're using it for a business.

If you are getting massive vibrations, that's a warning that something is wrong. And it's most likely not in the motor, but outside of it. Meaning a massive imbalance of whatever you're spinning.

 

[Steve_P]

What were you working on where that wasn't enough?

Not doubting you, asking for the OP. A half Horsepower USA grinder is a good machine for most people.

OP is using it as a buffer or wire wheel.

I had a ~0.3 HP bench grinder and it was very easy to bog down. I have a 1 HP now and it's obviously a beast. Neither made in the US- electric motors are century old technology and if OP is breaking bases from vibration, it's most likely something external. Obvious way to verify is to remove whatever is attached to the shafts and see. I've never had an electric motor self-destruct like he's having happen.

 

[Jeff Ivers]

Surely there's something decent somewhere between cheap Chinese junk and a Baldor.

Where, oh where?

What is causing the vibration? Seems like a little preventative maintenance might be all you need.

After I posted this, I went out to the shop and was working on the buffer when it failed, just like the older unit. I will try to post pics tomorrow. As near as I can tell, imbalance in either the wire wheel or the buffing wheel leads to the screws holding the base to the armature housing to vibrate loose. Then the vibration gets worse and one of the ears to the base that these screw go through breaks off the base. In my opinion, the cast iron of the base is too thin and the base is held onto the armature housing with machine screws rather than thru bolts. Every low price unit (about $150) I have looked at seems to have the same base, but no way to assess thickness of the cast iron. The only difference I can see that might make some units a better option is that the Eastwood units run at 3450 rpm, whereas some of the alternatives run at 1725 rpm. I have never felt the HP rating was a hindrance for the work I do. I would think the imbalance would be less an issue at lower rpm.

 

[Jeff Ivers]

Vibration in something like that is usually from lost material, like wire or cloth. And you have to remember that those wheels are not balanced even when new, so it only gets worse. You need more mass at the end of the shaft to dampen the vibration or a ball-filled ring to balance it.

Is something like that available? and where would one find a balancer?

 

[PWC Repair]

I don't know man........I have the cheapy 6" Ryobi with a grinding wheel on one side and a wire wheel on the other. I've used it and abused it for about 8 years without any issues EXCEPT for the threaded hub that holds the wire wheel. If it gets off center it starts vibrating. Then I take it off, center it back up, and snug it down.....good to go!

 

[Ike Carlson]

Is something like that available? and where would one find a balancer?

I’m not sure. You could try using a couple pieces of sheet metal or thinner steel with arbor sized holes drilled off center and then adjust them until the vibration goes away. It might take a few tries to dial it in, but you could get it right on the money.

 

[pancholasvegas]

I'm in the camp of there being a middle ground. One example could be a used Baldor unit in need of TLC - I see them reasonably often on my FB Marketplace. Plenty of auction sites as well that you can bid on used factory machinery and find good deals. Other alternatives - Craftsman - Lot's to research around here from people finding and fixing those up.

 

[carlaisle]

Pardon Our Interruption...

Half price of new junk and will probably outlive you.

 

[paulsomlo]

Pardon Our Interruption...

Half price of new junk and will probably outlive you.

And it's in Oklahoma - given it's appearance, I doubt he'll get his price, especially given the shipping cost. I'd wait a week or so, then, if it's local, try to make the deal outside of ebay. The seller will be motivated, because he won't have to ship it, and you'll be able to knock at least 10% off, because that's how much ebay would take. Given that the rest of his listings are bric a brac etc., this may have just fallen into his lap and he may have very little into it, which will work in your favor.

 

[paulsomlo]

In fact, I just checked - it's on FB Marketplace: https://www.facebook.com/marketplac...wse_serp:3d972c00-5475-44fa-a8e7-fe80fcc82d4f

 

[DB18w]

I have a Baldor carbide tool grinder, a Jet 8" 1 hp with grinding wheels, a Harbor Freight 6" with a flap wheel on one end and a rubber abrasive wheel on the other, a very old underpowered offshore Orbit 6" from the 70's with a wire wheel on one side and a grinding wheel on the other, plus several buffing setups that I built. I have never experienced the unbalance described by the op. My question is how well do the bores of his wire wheel and buffer wheel fit his arbor and does he have the large flange washers on the sides of same.

 

[pcmeiners]

What were you working on where that wasn't enough?

Not doubting you, asking for the OP. A half Horsepower USA grinder is a good machine for most people.

Until I purchased a 6x48" Delta for removing lot of meta, and 1 hp grinders/buffers I only had 1/2 HP grinders. Yes they worked but it was slow going, constantly bogging down in the process. Once you get up 3/4- 1 hp grinders don't bog down (in general). Granted most of the time a 1/2 is sufficient but not all the time.

 

[1982fxr]

In fact, I just checked - it's on FB Marketplace: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1866793290636216/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp:3d972c00-5475-44fa-a8e7-fe80fcc82d4f

That's a great deal.

 

[CraigStu]

I also wonder if the OP's base that the motor is bolted to is flat. Back in the 70s I bought a bandsaw from K-Mart. Remember them? 3-4 years ago I finally upgraded a bit to a Jet. But I saved the motor from the bandsaw. 6 months ago I came here to find out how to wire a reversing toggle switch to that motor so it could power my old Craftsman lathe. Got that worked out and now each time I turn on the lathe I marvel at how smooth it runs w/ that 50+ year old K-Mart motor.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, the vibration is probably caused by an unbalanced wheel.

 

[Hohn]

I am an avid DIYer and work on a wide variety of projects. Much lower skill level than Don at the Big Party Garage. But I do find a need to occasionally clean up something on a wire wheel or buffer. Several years ago, I bought an Eastwood 1/2 hp buffer motor and used it for several years until it started developing a weird vibration and then failed when the base cracked apart. I bought another of the same unit and it is starting to develop the vibration issues. I typically run this with an 8" wire wheel on one end and a buffer wheel on the other. From reading here and elsewhere, Baldor seems to be the Cadillac of this genre, but man are they expensive! Am I causing the failure by running the wire wheel on one side? Has anyone tried the Vevor 2-speed unit that is also 1/2 hp, but 1725/3450 rpm? Should I spend my kids inheritance and get a Baldor and if so, which one?

"Clean up something" is much too vague.

What exactly are you wanting to be able to do?
In almost every instance, whatever you want to do on a bench grinder is done better, faster and safer on a belt grinder.




You can get belts that will effectively eliminate the need for wire wheels.

 

[whateg01]

"Clean up something" is much too vague.

What exactly are you wanting to be able to do?
In almost every instance, whatever you want to do on a bench grinder is done better, faster and safer on a belt grinder.




You can get belts that will effectively eliminate the need for wire wheels.

If somebody is trying to remove rust from something with nooks and crannies, a wire wheel is better for getting into those nooks and crannies than a belt. That said most of the time I see that being done is on "restoration" and in most of those cases there is probably another better way anyway.

 

[Hohn]

and in most of those cases there is probably another better way anyway.

Yes.
In almost every case, actually. There's almost no job you can think of that can't be done better on either a flat abrasive belt, a slack belt, or an angle grinder with assorted discs and wheels.

Safer, too.

 

[danv]

I used red wing motors in my business for years. Very reliable

 

[Ike Carlson]

I stay far away from cheap motors. The better ones run much smoother, cooler, and have a better power curve so they don’t bog down. A good motor will run silent, have excellent starting and running torque, and zero vibration.

I bought a meat saw years ago that would walk across the floor and destroy your ears from the vibration. Absolutely horrible motor. Swap it for a good usa made one and you can’t hear it run.

 

[whateg01]

..., or an angle grinder with assorted discs and wheels.

Safer, too.

Unless you use black and Decker disc

 

[BurtEggley]

the vibration is caused by a wheel that is unbalanced. I run a wire wheel and a grinding wheel on an inexpensive unit - no vibration unless the wheel is new and untrued.

I posted a thread recently on grinders. While I use 6" they apply to 8" also. My recommendation is to avoid a variable speed grinder. You'll see some for sale that are missing the speed control. The control can fail, and the part is not always available from the manufacturer to repair the unit. Amperage of the motor will control a lot of how well it works. The vevor ones are fine for light work. Based on my experience with a wire wheel, I would want something heavier than the light work ones. Based on all that I have seen, Jet is the path I would consider. They are available on Zoro and you can catch a 20% off coupon occasionally. But you will spend close to $400. If you go Baldor, you may want to look at good used ones coming up from estate sales etc.. They will not be inexpensive, and beware of missing parts, or rewound motors, 3 phase motors etc.. unless you have 3 phase in your shop. Buck Tool makes a dual speed - dual winding 8" grinder that does not use a variable speed controller. It only is 2.1 and 3.1 amps so it is not going to have as much power as a 4 or 5 amp grinder. But it might serve your needs. They get good ratings but be inspect carefully if you get it from Amazon. I noticed a lot of ratings on larger heavy items like that where people returned them due to damage in shipping etc., and the unit ended up being sent to someone else. Buck Tool also sells direct. https://bucktool.com/products/bucktool-power-tools-8-inch-dual-speed-cast-iron-base-bench-grinder They also make an 8 amp high speed grinder if you only want one speed. It is only $143 at Amazon. The dual speed one is $161. https://www.amazon.com/BUCKTOOL-Gri...-TDS-200HD/dp/B07T3L1T8S?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[paulsomlo]

In fact, I just checked - it's on FB Marketplace: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1866793290636216/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp:3d972c00-5475-44fa-a8e7-fe80fcc82d4f

Price dropped from $250 to $150 today.

 

[exmaxima1]

That looks like the Baldor 7307 I had at work. I added a belt grinder adapter and it was about the best setup I ever had. Belt changes took less than 20 seconds, and it ran smooth as silk. I would offer a little bit less than $150 as it is missing a few parts and the left side guard is broken so you can't install a factory rest

 

[paulsomlo]

That looks like the Baldor 7307 I had at work. I added a belt grinder adapter and it was about the best setup I ever had. Belt changes took less than 20 seconds, and it ran smooth as silk. I would offer a little bit less than $150 as it is missing a few parts and the left side guard is broken so you can't install a factory rest

That looks like the Multitool attachment (https://multitoolgrinders.com/products/multitool-2-x-36-belt-grinder-attachment.html), except yours appears to a bit more robust, with parts from machined aluminum; do you know what brand it is?

 

[RMERR]

I have 9 machines in my wheel and sanding belt area. Eight of them are Baldor motors. Got most of them used off Craigslist. Baldors do run very smooth. Mine are all bolted to cast or heavy steel pedestals. On every machine it is my practice to place an 1/8" thick piece of neoprene between the pedestal top and the machine. I believe it adds some vibration damping as well as a "gasket" effect to take up minor imperfections in the flatness of the machine bottom. I highly recommend it.

 

[finn]

Where, oh where?

After I posted this, I went out to the shop and was working on the buffer when it failed, just like the older unit. I will try to post pics tomorrow. As near as I can tell, imbalance in either the wire wheel or the buffing wheel leads to the screws holding the base to the armature housing to vibrate loose. Then the vibration gets worse and one of the ears to the base that these screw go through breaks off the base. In my opinion, the cast iron of the base is too thin and the base is held onto the armature housing with machine screws rather than thru bolts. Every low price unit (about $150) I have looked at seems to have the same base, but no way to assess thickness of the cast iron. The only difference I can see that might make some units a better option is that the Eastwood units run at 3450 rpm, whereas some of the alternatives run at 1725 rpm. I have never felt the HP rating was a hindrance for the work I do. I would think the imbalance would be less an issue at lower rpm.

I don’t think they’re cast iron, but rather some type of aluminum or zinc die casting with a very thin cross section. At least that’s how a couple that I have looked at were constructed.

 

[Jeff Ivers]

Pictures of my broken Eastwood buffer motor number 2:

This picture shows the two holes that have machine screws screwed into them through holes in the cast base to attach the armature housing to the base. Notice the screw cockeyed in one hole - the threads are totally stripped out.

These are the mounting screws to hold the base to the arm. housing.

This shows the base and the arm. housing mounting arm broken off.

This is a picture of the first buffer that failed showing how I increased the hole size and used an actual bolt to attach the arm. housing to the base.

This shows how flimsy the cast iron base is and how I am attempting to JB Weld the pieces back in place like I did on the first buffer that failed.

As mentioned, I attempted repairs on the first buffer that failed but had not attempted to put it back in service. Today, I decided I would try to put it back into service to see if I could get some service out of it and perhaps learn something that might help in my decision making.
First, I reassembled the buffer on my stand and turned it on with no wheels installed. Ran smooth as silk..

This is the wire wheel I have been running on the buffer for some time. I installed it on one end of the buffer and started it up and it ran smooth as silk, leading me to the conclusion that the wire wheel is not the cause of my problems.

This is the buffer wheel I had been running. It is actually a stack of two loose 1/2" pads. I installed it and turned the buffer on to instant vibration. So, I shut it down and replaced this wheel stack with a new 1/2" loose wheel and tried again. This time, there was little to no vibration. Apparently the stacked buffs were causing most of the problem.

I was able to use the buffer for off and on for about an hour to polish up some sockets and wrenches. One of the main things that I use this for is cleaning threads up on the wire wheel.