Todays Torque Wrench test..

[RCStocker]

The ones form HF have a fantastic rating and are more accurate over time than most of the expensive ones. I picked one up last week. I might never use it but at least I have a new toy. It was $32 something and I had a 25% off coupon. For the price of lunch at Black Angus it is not much.

 

[CWP1616L]

What do you do that the HF wrench would not be accurate enough for?

If I set the wrench to 90 lb.ft. and it gives me 86.6 lb.ft., that's not good enough for me no. Would it be acceptable to you?

 

[jtbinvalrico]

After being unable to find a really big torque wrench to rent to do my F150 axle nuts (295 ft lbs), I picked up the 3/4" 300 ft lb wrench from HF to keep my other three smaller HF torque wrenches company. On sale, with a 20% coupon.....about $70 out the door. Worked great.

All the rental joints around here said they had nothing over 150 ft lbs.

 

[oldtools]

If I set the wrench to 90 lb.ft. and it gives me 86.6 lb.ft., that's not good enough for me no. Would it be acceptable to you?

Snap On TW is also +/- 4%, so SO TW is not good enough for you? You still have not given a reason why you need the accuracy.

 

[CWP1616L]

Snap On TW is also +/- 4%, so SO TW is not good enough for you? You still have not given a reason why you need the accuracy.

Snap-on has never made a torque wrench. They put their ratcheting head on other company's torque wrenches and branded the wrench Snap-on. They recently bought CDI; before that, Precision Instruments made their torque wrenches. That P.I. wrench that Hiball tested in the first post of this thread falls within an accuracy of +/- 2%. That'll work for me.

 

[pendragon1998]

If I set the wrench to 90 lb.ft. and it gives me 86.6 lb.ft., that's not good enough for me no. Would it be acceptable to you?

What are you working on, the space shuttle? I doubt anything on a truck torqued that high is going to fail due to a 3.8% error in torque. Heck, you probably get that much variance just due to corrosion on fasteners.

 

[Hootbro]

If I set the wrench to 90 lb.ft. and it gives me 86.6 lb.ft., that's not good enough for me no. Would it be acceptable to you?

You are picking the fly **** out the pepper. Just about every fastener torque has a +/- specification and that is mainly to do with the standard torque wrench deviations. If you set your torque setting at the middle of the specification, then you are covered for standard deviations.

 

[Treeman]

Snap-on has never made a torque wrench. They put their ratcheting head on other company's torque wrenches and branded the wrench Snap-on. They recently bought CDI; before that, Precision Instruments made their torque wrenches. That P.I. wrench that Hiball tested in the first post of this thread falls within an accuracy of +/- 2%. That'll work for me.

Late to the game here. But, if you study any of the engineering forums you will learn that measuring fastener tension (stretch) via twisting forces (torque) is highly inaccurate. The ballpark accuracy, you will discover, is about +/- 30% due to many variables, including fastener condition (thread condition, roughness, friction, etc.,) user skill, and on and on. This 30% comes up over and over again in various engineering discussions.

So, the difference between +/-2% and +/-4% becomes somewhat a moot point. Kind of like the difference between using a tablespoon and teaspoon to measure the volume of water in Lake Michigan.

Don't believe me? Study it yourself, then come back here and prove me wrong.

Here's an easy to read primer: http://www.surebolt.com/torque_errors.htm

 

[Loscaldazar]

Late to the game here. But, if you study any of the engineering forums you will learn that measuring fastener tension (stretch) via twisting forces (torque) is highly inaccurate. The ballpark accuracy, you will discover, is about +/- 30% due to many variables, including fastener condition (thread condition, roughness, friction, etc.,) user skill, and on and on. This 30% comes up over and over again in various engineering discussions.

So, the difference between +/-2% and +/-4% becomes somewhat a moot point. Kind of like the difference between using a tablespoon and teaspoon to measure the volume of water in Lake Michigan.

Don't believe me? Study it yourself, then come back here and prove me wrong.

Here's an easy to read primer: http://www.surebolt.com/torque_errors.htm

Perspective always helps. Thanks for that!

 

[Kracin]

Late to the game here. But, if you study any of the engineering forums you will learn that measuring fastener tension (stretch) via twisting forces (torque) is highly inaccurate. The ballpark accuracy, you will discover, is about +/- 30% due to many variables, including fastener condition (thread condition, roughness, friction, etc.,) user skill, and on and on. This 30% comes up over and over again in various engineering discussions.

So, the difference between +/-2% and +/-4% becomes somewhat a moot point. Kind of like the difference between using a tablespoon and teaspoon to measure the volume of water in Lake Michigan.

Don't believe me? Study it yourself, then come back here and prove me wrong.

Here's an easy to read primer: http://www.surebolt.com/torque_errors.htm

good basic source, and it'd definitely not surprising how many times i get into talks about torque readings with people and they don't even realize half of the factors that affect the outcome of a torque reading and how much force the piece is being held with after the fact. they just assume torque # = how hard it's being clamped down and thats it... also the same people who ratchet a torque wrench 2-3 times before hitting their stopping point, which is probably lower than their desired torque, and they always say "no its not, cause it clicked"

 

[P_I_Torque]

I love threads like this - kudos to you guys for the actually doing these tests. Scientific or not, they do provide some useful information and trends.

Wow, couldn't have said it better myself. Bravo and Kudos Hiball

In regards to cycling the torque wrench first before evaluation, that's part of the ASME B107.14M specifications. Kind of helps put all the wrenches on a level playing field before data collection. Needs to be at 50% of full scale or more, 3 cycles.

Here's a question we get almost asked daily. Will using a deep well socket or any kind of socket extension alter the torque wrench accuracy? I see some of you guys have some nice equipment. Have a torque stick by chance? Have some fun putting that on a torque wrench with your test equipment and seeing what happens. Maybe use a 70Ft.Lb. torque stick set the torque wrench at 100Ft.Lb. If you don't, shoot me a PM I can send you a couple if you would like. Any guesses?

 

[OxJaw]

Well I was interested to see what my Harbor Freight torque wrench would read so I stopped and picked up one of the torque adapters as well. It came in a nice case and had a calibration certificate with it, take it for what you will.

I did four groups of five tests. I cycled the torque wrench from minimum to maximum back to minimum three times and then set it at sixty. The adapter was mounted in a vice. I put my left hand on top of the drive end of the wrench and pulled with my right hand. The first group is no extension, the second is with a three inch extension, the third group is a six inch, and the fourth is a ten inch.

The torque wrench was purchased in the last six months and this is the first time I have used it. Right out of the box and onto the torque adapter.

No extension
59.5
59.6
60.0
58.6
60.3

-2%/+.5%

Three inch
58.9
60.2
59.2
60.8
60.5

-1.8%/+1%

Six inch
60.4
59.4
60.8
61.9
61.2

-1%/+3.2%

Ten inch
60.4
61.2
60.8
61.4
62.2

+3.7%

I don't have any torque sticks or I would have tried that experiment as well.

 

[metaleltr]

Well I was interested to see what my Harbor Freight torque wrench would read so I stopped and picked up one of the torque adapters as well. It came in a nice case and had a calibration certificate with it, take it for what you will.

I did four groups of five tests. I cycled the torque wrench from minimum to maximum back to minimum three times and then set it at sixty. The adapter was mounted in a vice. I put my left hand on top of the drive end of the wrench and pulled with my right hand. The first group is no extension, the second is with a three inch extension, the third group is a six inch, and the fourth is a ten inch.

The torque wrench was purchased in the last six months and this is the first time I have used it. Right out of the box and onto the torque adapter.

No extension
59.5
59.6
60.0
58.6
60.3

-2%/+.5%

Three inch
58.9
60.2
59.2
60.8
60.5

-1.8%/+1%

Six inch
60.4
59.4
60.8
61.9
61.2

-1%/+3.2%

Ten inch
60.4
61.2
60.8
61.4
62.2

+3.7%

I don't have any torque sticks or I would have tried that experiment as well.

That is good enough evidence for me to put that old thread to rest.

 

[CWP1616L]

You are picking the fly **** out of the pepper.

That may be but you have to admit that the P.I. wrench is significantly more accurate than the HF wrench. Is it worth the extra $100 to buy a superior product from the good ol' folks in Des Plains Illinois? Absolutely!!

 

[Loscaldazar]

That may be but you have to admit that the P.I. wrench is significantly more accurate than the HF wrench. Is it worth the extra $100 to buy a superior product from the good ol' folks in Des Plains Illinois? Absolutely!!

PI also does some fancy science stuff with the spring to make it extremely resistant if the owner accidentally leaves the micrometer clicker type turned up in storage.

 

[Burgerkong]

Wow, couldn't have said it better myself. Bravo and Kudos Hiball

In regards to cycling the torque wrench first before evaluation, that's part of the ASME B107.14M specifications. Kind of helps put all the wrenches on a level playing field before data collection. Needs to be at 50% of full scale or more, 3 cycles.

Here's a question we get almost asked daily. Will using a deep well socket or any kind of socket extension alter the torque wrench accuracy? I see some of you guys have some nice equipment. Have a torque stick by chance? Have some fun putting that on a torque wrench with your test equipment and seeing what happens. Maybe use a 70Ft.Lb. torque stick set the torque wrench at 100Ft.Lb. If you don't, shoot me a PM I can send you a couple if you would like. Any guesses?

No torque stick here, just got in the torque wrench game with a PI split beam. Will these ever wear out? I talked to my Snappy driver today to ask about calibration and he said he doesn't calibrate wrenches older than 10 years old. Is this right?

 

[SantaAna12]

Great thread. Thanks.


http://63.135.113.73/Portals/0/NTTS TorquePaper3a Nov08 NAB.pdf


You guys are raising my .........bar.

 

[bull_duck]

My new $100 Eastwoof Torque Angle http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=200054

Seems to work well. Interested to see comparative measurements by someone with proper comparative measurement equipment. My impression is that the Eastwood does a better job easier than my old bar torque wrench.

 

[Hootbro]

That may be but you have to admit that the P.I. wrench is significantly more accurate than the HF wrench. Is it worth the extra $100 to buy a superior product from the good ol' folks in Des Plains Illinois? Absolutely!!

Like I said, picking the fly **** out the pepper. Buy a PI because it gives you the warm fuzzies or the COO patriotism feeling, but me and you are in disagreement of the "significantly more accurate" statement in real world applications. Nor is the PI wrench giving you 900% more accuracy for the 900% more costs than the HF wrench.

 

[Loscaldazar]

Like I said, picking the fly **** out the pepper. Buy a PI because it gives you the warm fuzzies or the COO patriotism feeling, but me and you are in disagreement of the "significantly more accurate" statement in real world applications. Nor is the PI wrench giving you 900% more accuracy for the 900% more costs than the HF wrench.

The split beam however is worth its weight in gold. So much nicer than a micrometer click type and is worth the $100 each price tag. Much more reliable, easier to set, don't have to fuss with setting it back down to zero, no need to cycle it before use, dropping it doesn't affect its accuracy, rarely have to be calibrated because there really isn't anything to get out of adjustment....

However, my micrometer click types are all HF. I still check the periodically, and while they may not have the precision of many other brands, they still get me within 5% accuracy when used properly. I don't like how you can't adjust the calibration on them however. Once you drop them or do something to knock it out of calibration, they are junk (and yes, I've done some DIY calibrations on cheap torque wrenches and can get them within 5% or so accuracy tested via several different methods so being able to calibrate a cheap torque wrench is feasible for me).

I'm not going to say that everyone has to spend $100 on a torque wrench. Buy what you need, but dang, split beam torque wrenches rock!

 

[CWP1616L]

me and you are in a disagreement

Apparently so yes.

 

[ssentt]

I recently bought 1/2 & 3/8 torque wrenches from lowes and they are pretty nice for the money. Stopped by HF and got the torque adapter for the sole purpose of testing the torque wrenches. I already had a Snap-on twin beam 1/2" so I tested it right along side the lowes. I can honestly say the lowes are just as accurate as the snap on and maybe even slightly more consistent. My snap-on required a nice even rate of pull to produce consistent readings. If the rate of pull slowed slightly at breakover it would produce a little lower reading where as the lowes rate of pull to break over didn't seem to matter to produce consistent reading after reading. I went with 50ft-lb and 100ft-lb for sample readings. Sorry no pics.

 

[Kracin]

That may be but you have to admit that the P.I. wrench is significantly more accurate than the HF wrench. Is it worth the extra $100 to buy a superior product from the good ol' folks in Des Plains Illinois? Absolutely!!

odd, because i would rather not buy something from an american supplier who ramps up a price based on their country of origin, and would rather buy it based on quality alone. and if they are charging 10x the price of a competitor, it better be 10x the product. if not, then they aren't being very competitive and taking advantage of people such as yourself.


as for the hf torque wrench statement and your "accuracy". there are too many variables when torquing things down to consider to even think about 3.X ft/lbs being even slightly "off" when torquing to 90ftlbs. you are far more likely to throw your accuracy off from things like uneven mating surface, if you don't use oil vs using oil vs using moly lube, vs spitting on it. whether or not you were torquing it on an extremely cold day, or if it was 100 degrees outside, and even things like whether or not the threads were new or had been worn down from previous torquing will all effect the ACTUAL torque being applied far more than the 3ft/lbs you aren't getting or are getting. that is the weight of your hand and nothing more. and certainly isn't worth wasting a lot of money over imho


is it nice to know that when you hear a "click", that its hitting a number very very close to what it says on the handle? yes, it is nice to know that it's clicking when its getting to that point. but is it worth it to want your wrench to give you a false assurance instead of taking the necessary steps to ensure it's done right in the first place, not really.

do things right, don't assume the tool makes the user superior. just because it didn't cost a lot, and wasn't made by a union worker in some midwest state, doesn't mean it is a worse tool by any means, especially if it isn't being used right in the first place

 

[Hiball]

I recently bought 1/2 & 3/8 torque wrenches from lowes and they are pretty nice for the money. Stopped by HF and got the torque adapter for the sole purpose of testing the torque wrenches. I already had a Snap-on twin beam 1/2" so I tested it right along side the lowes. I can honestly say the lowes are just as accurate as the snap on and maybe even slightly more consistent. My snap-on required a nice even rate of pull to produce consistent readings. If the rate of pull slowed slightly at breakover it would produce a little lower reading where as the lowes rate of pull to break over didn't seem to matter to produce consistent reading after reading. I went with 50ft-lb and 100ft-lb for sample readings. Sorry no pics.

Curious? And maybe ive been using a Torque wrench wrong all these years, But arent you supposed to use a Nice controlled "Even rate of Pull"? Or was i taught wrong? I noticed when i first started doing my test that i was trying to watch the HF Tester all the while pulling on each individual Wrench, If you listened for the beeps or watched the colors you could trick yourself into "feeling" for the break by easing up when you reached the mark. Instead i tried to focus on letting the Torque wrench do the Work and sustaining a good repeatable grip to give me the best results. Its a No Brainer.. changing hand positions (<---->) changes the game and i suspect being Herky/Jerky with the TW also manipulates the readings.

odd, because i would rather not buy something from an american supplier who ramps up a price based on their country of origin, and would rather buy it based on quality alone. and if they are charging 10x the price of a competitor, it better be 10x the product. if not, then they aren't being very competitive and taking advantage of people such as yourself.

I Own a Large Lot of PI torque Wrenches, Ive Never felt taken advantage of.. How bout we Talk about Torque Wrenches and our Individual Results versus which one of us made the Best consumer purchase based off opposing members beliefs.

Thanks.

 

[Loscaldazar]

odd, because i would rather not buy something from an american supplier who ramps up a price based on their country of origin, and would rather buy it based on quality alone. and if they are charging 10x the price of a competitor, it better be 10x the product. if not, then they aren't being very competitive and taking advantage of people such as yourself.

I hope you don't take that view in everything in life. You can get a cheap small subcompact for $10,000 or for $20,000 get a small sedan. Is the sedan twice the car of the subcompact (power, size, features, etc)?

I don't get where there is so much hate for PI on this board. There is more to consider than just accuracy and precision in a torque wrench. As I stated earlier in this thread, PI does many fancy and neat things to their torque wrenches to make them more reliable long term, deal better with abuse (ie dropping or not winding down a micrometer click type to the lowest point on the scale), and actually work out of the box. I have several HF clickers, and I had to exchange the 1/4 drive one once (brand new, tested it in parking lot, didn't work) and the 1/2 twice (both tested in lot and failed) before I got working ones. The 3/8 worked the first time. That is a 50% fail rate out of box....Sure all of them are accurate and somewhat precise (especially for the money), but I'm sure PI doesn't have a lemon rate of 50%. Buy what you need and can afford, but there ARE good reasons for paying $100 a torque wrench.

Going to pick up the HF strain gauge today and see if I can post some numbers later

 

[Loscaldazar]

Well, My vise wasn't cooperating with me (more like the table it was mounted to), so I couldn't test anything above 70 or so ft-lbs (table would start moving).

3/8 Drive Split Beam PI @30 Ft-lbs
29.7
29.2
29.3
29.7
30
29.7

@50
49
48.5
49.1
49.1
49.4
50.4

1/2 Drive Split Beam PI
@65
64.9
64.9
64.9
64.7
65.6
64.3

Doing very well

 

[Hiball]

Well, My vise wasn't cooperating with me (more like the table it was mounted to), so I couldn't test anything above 70 or so ft-lbs (table would start moving).

3/8 Drive Split Beam PI @30 Ft-lbs
29.7
29.2
29.3
29.7
30
29.7

@50
49
48.5
49.1
49.1
49.4
50.4

1/2 Drive Split Beam PI
@65
64.9
64.9
64.9
64.7
65.6
64.3

Doing very well

Thanks for sharing.. No doubt split beams are super accurate.

 

[Treeman]

Thanks for sharing.. No doubt split beams are super accurate.

Precise, yes. Accuracy is yet to be determined. ......no need to engage, just having fun.

 

[CWP1616L]

HF

90 ft lbs..

1. 90.0 <-- This surprised me.
2. 88.2
3. 92.4
4. 86.6
5. 91.6

130 ft lbs..

1. 130.8
2. 133.8
3. 126.5
4. 132.4
5. 130.5

Precision Ft lb Torque Wrench

90 ft lbs.

1. 91.1
2. 91.3
3. 90.9
4. 90.8
5. 91.0

130 ft lbs

1. 132.4
2. 132.1
3. 131.8
4. 131.7
5. 131.6

The Precision Instruments torque wrench never dipped below the torque setting in any of those readings and also never exceeded the torque setting by more than 2% in any of those readings. That's all the reassurance I need to buy their product.

 

[Kracin]

I Own a Large Lot of PI torque Wrenches, Ive Never felt taken advantage of.. How bout we Talk about Torque Wrenches and our Individual Results versus which one of us made the Best consumer purchase based off opposing members beliefs.

Thanks.

it is my individual opinion that a torque wrench branded cheaper, a HF, or a craftsman is just as good as one that is touted as a high dollar made in the u.s. one. from my experience as well, i own a craftsman and hf wrench, and have used many other brands at work. they all did the same thing and the craftsman is pushing 12 years now and was 1-2lbs off at 90 ft lbs last time i checked it.

there is far more to worry about than a wrench being off by a pound or two up or down when torquing something down.



the short version of what i was saying before we get into some kind of stupid internet war, is buy what works, don't buy it because it says made in the U.S.A. the more people buy just because it says made in the u.s.a. regardless of quality or price, the more it will be a detriment to the future of u.s. made products.

 

[Hiball]

it is my individual opinion that a torque wrench branded cheaper, a HF, or a craftsman is just as good as one that is touted as a high dollar made in the u.s. one. from my experience as well, i own a craftsman and hf wrench, and have used many other brands at work. they all did the same thing and the craftsman is pushing 12 years now and was 1-2lbs off at 90 ft lbs last time i checked it.



the short version of what i was saying before we get into some kind of stupid internet war, is buy what works, don't buy it because it says made in the U.S.A. the more people buy just because it says made in the u.s.a. regardless of quality or price, the more it will be a detriment to the future of u.s. made products.

Nothing wrong with having a opinion.. Insinuating that someone is "being taken advantage" of because they choose to buy from a company that has been in The torque business for 75 years is silly, regardless of where they are made.

 

[sselander]

Interesting read, especially the part where they don't set the torque wrench back to zero.

Torquing - Testing Torque Wrenches
http://www.fourwheeler.com/techarticles/129_1307_torquing_testing_torque_wrenches/

 

[porschedude996TT]

Word of caution:

Comparing a new out of the box Digital Torque Meter without a calibration to another torque wrench is not really calibrating. The test should be done with a device that has known calibrated values traceable back to the Bureau of Standards.

My company has a Snap-On Torque Wrench Calibration device. I have calibrated my personal torque wrenches on it and it works well.

 

[SMKS]

Word of caution:

Comparing a new out of the box Digital Torque Meter without a calibration to another torque wrench is not really calibrating. The test should be done with a device that has known calibrated values traceable back to the Bureau of Standards.

A word of caution:
Do a little reading up on the torque adapters.



The torque adapters come with a calibration certificate showing their tested results, for what it's worth.

A NIST-traceable certificate it ain't. But it's a super simple mechanism that's far simpler than any clicker torque wrench.

No one is claiming this is scientific testing for use in a facility where torque wrenches are calibrated. This is a just a bunch of dudes checking their torque wrenches for kicks. My experience using all my torque wrenches and using a torque adapter is that the adapter is more than accurate enough for a DIY'er to tinker with.

Also, this was posted a few posts up, but Car Craft tested a HF torque adapter and found that the one they had was dead on.

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_1304_torque_wrench_testing/

We originally gathered a small collection of standard 1⁄2-inch drive clicker torque wrenches including a Snap-on, a Craftsman, and a Harbor Freight. Then we discovered a digital torque adapter sold by Harbor Freight. This small unit fits in between a standard 1⁄2-inch drive breaker bar and the socket, and using a digital strain gauge, it converts the torque applied through the adapter into a digital readout. At a typical Harbor Freight price of $39.99, we decided to include it in our test. We frankly didn’t expect this little unit to be very accurate. But testing proved otherwise.

We ran the torque adapter through five consecutive applications of 70 lb-ft of torque to watch it hit within 0.10 of a lb-ft twice and actually hit exactly 70 lb-ft on one occasion. The average of the five tests was an amazing 70.1 lb-ft. The unit offers a digital readout and warning lights, and it even emits a progressive electronic beep when nearing the pre-selected torque.

Read more: http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_1304_torque_wrench_testing/#ixzz2Vq7ErPTP

 

[P_I_Torque]

No torque stick here, just got in the torque wrench game with a PI split beam. Will these ever wear out? I talked to my Snappy driver today to ask about calibration and he said he doesn't calibrate wrenches older than 10 years old. Is this right?

I saw we just checked in a 36 year old TQ (before TE) torque wrench for repair today. It'll be returned to the customer in "factory rebuilt" condition. That's the short answer to your question, Burgerkong. But that sure doesn't make for new sales either

 

[P_I_Torque]

Well I was interested to see what my Harbor Freight torque wrench would read so I stopped and picked up one of the torque adapters as well. It came in a nice case and had a calibration certificate with it, take it for what you will.

I did four groups of five tests. I cycled the torque wrench from minimum to maximum back to minimum three times and then set it at sixty. The adapter was mounted in a vice. I put my left hand on top of the drive end of the wrench and pulled with my right hand. The first group is no extension, the second is with a three inch extension, the third group is a six inch, and the fourth is a ten inch.

The torque wrench was purchased in the last six months and this is the first time I have used it. Right out of the box and onto the torque adapter.

No extension
59.5
59.6
60.0
58.6
60.3

-2%/+.5%

Three inch
58.9
60.2
59.2
60.8
60.5

-1.8%/+1%

Six inch
60.4
59.4
60.8
61.9
61.2

-1%/+3.2%

Ten inch
60.4
61.2
60.8
61.4
62.2

+3.7%

I don't have any torque sticks or I would have tried that experiment as well.

Good results, now can I send some customer service calls your way?

 

[cosmik binturong]

wonder what some here would buy if they had the choice between say, CDI, PI or Sturtevant Richmont wrenches (i'll skip the euro & japanese brands to not add more confusion) at HF prices -which happens lotsatime on eBay and elsewere- and Harbor Freight's ones at their usual prices...

would they resell them ASAP to pocket the difference and go buy more HF or...

 

[TwoInch]

Have a torque stick by chance? Have some fun putting that on a torque wrench with your test equipment and seeing what happens. Maybe use a 70Ft.Lb. torque stick set the torque wrench at 100Ft.Lb. If you don't, shoot me a PM I can send you a couple if you would like. Any guesses?

i would have to say that with the torque stick, you will still get the full reading on the torque wrench. IE, using a 70ftlb stick on a TW set to 100ftlbs, you would get 100ftlbs.

the best way i can explain it to people when they try to claim deep sockets or extensions change the applied torque, has always been handing them something long and flexible, like a ruler, yardstick, 1x4, etc... something that obviously twists, and have the twist it between their two hands. then ask them to explain to me how the stationary hand could be "receiving" less torque than the hand that is doing the twisting....

if the wrench clicks, or shows that 100ftlbs is applied, it is completely transferred, regardless of twisting or length from TW to fastener. changing angle will affect though, such as a u-joint, or wobble.

 

[oldtools]

You can buy a really expensive quartz watch or a really cheap one. The expensive one give you all the bling, but both watch will give you accurate time.

 

[Hiball]

You can buy a really expensive quartz watch or a really cheap one. The expensive one give you all the bling, but both watch will give you accurate time.

I can think of tons of Situations where that Analogy rings true.. But its Not a full proof plan and doesnt cover every situation. IMO..