Tool Rant (Made in China) GRRR!!!

[bagsanthony]

im right with ya man....having the chinese make vise grips is bull ****! thats just the way this country is going.... mac tools is the biggest shame out there, selling truck prices for there chinese bull ****

 

[HandyManny]

If it is a road/field box I would just use china cause if your equiptment is anything like what I drive it is covered I manure or mud 70% of the time and USA tools aren't worth it due to the amount of abuse field tools get and plus if you loose them you won't be out that much....

Sounds to me like you're saying those good old USA tools won't hold up to that kind of stuff.

 

[srmofo]

Whats wrong with tools from china?
































Jumps behind couch and braces for impact

 

[HandyManny]

Whats wrong with tools from china?
































Jumps behind couch and braces for impact

People hate them based on different principals and perspectives. My avoidance of them is based mainly on politics and unwillingness to allow them to profit off of us. I'd rather support the few high quality tool makers that still exist here in the USA, or the high quality tool makers that exist in countries of our allies. But soon it will all be sourced from China.

 

[american lockpicker]

Whats wrong with tools from china?

Besides the cheap labour, questionable materials and quality, patent infringements, etc. nothing at all.

 

[NJ Diver]

That horse isn't dead yet. Keep beating it. Enough people ***** people listen

It's not the bitching they listen to, its where the money goes that matters. We can all ***** all we want, but if those same people then turn around an buy made in China stuff, then it really doesn't matter does it? No one will listen at that point.

 

[bw77]

IMO, lack of factory jobs is one big reason why so many young people are in prison today.

Used to be that a hs grad or even a dropout could get a job in a factory.
Now those jobs are mostly gone. Without a job, people often turn to crime.

That cost should be included when weighing the cost and benefit of jobs leaving this country, but it is not.

 

[petee_c]

Open up a hand tool factory here in North America (Canada or US).... see how long it lasts, paying people minimum wage, paying taxes etc etc. and try to put out a product that's better than what's available now globally at a similiar price....

And then see if people will buy the stuff.

What's the point in making good stuff that lasts in todays Global Market? --maybe someone (1 in 10?) will buy it, then he or she won't need another one in this lifetime, and then they'll pass it on to your sons or daughters.... Where's the repeat customer on your 50cent socket, $1 wrench or $2 vise grip.

I don't know, but I think casting tools is a hot, dirty job..... I don't think many people here wanna do it.

My 2 cents,
P

 

[Rickster]

If you're going to put together a go-box I'd put an ad in the Wanted Classifieds and post a list of what you're looking for. To save money I'd recommend offering to buy any older US manf tools with engravings and flaws in the finish. I'll bet you could round up a pretty nice box of US manufacturers tools for cheap if you're not picky about "numbers matching" tools.

 

[bczygan]

Sounds like you're starting to believe your own bull$hit.

In many if not most cases, quality suffers when mfg. is moved to the other side of the world, especially China. It's all about the bottom line and it's only in the last few years companies started to realized that with so many people jobless due to outsourcing that no one has cash to purchase thier's or anyone else's products whatever they be.

For being a Detroit local, that should ring home to you more than a lot of us.

That said, the non-US made Irwins I have purchased are adequate for most jobs and they are FAR better then the HF vice grips, which is one of many tools I will never buy again from HF.

There is no reason China couldn't produce the best and most affordable (For high quality) tools. Personally, I hope they do. I'd like the added choices. But it won't be at the prices of their present offerings. Their culture is becoming more materialistic, and while they have masses of cheap labor, their new generation wants more. Prices will rise.
I think the time when American workers are willing to do the hard dirty work for low wages and no benefits is long gone. Just not competitive anymore, at least compared to foreign workers. And I wouldn't want to do that work or have my relatives do it either. I honestly don't know how they make a Gearwrench 3/8 combination ratcheting wrench for $2.50 (Ina set of 4) and ship it here and mark it up to retail. I couldn't do it here, even if I had motivated minimum wage labor with no shipping. The problem becomes though, just what work can we do, that we're better at and can do competitively in world markets? I don't know.
Now Detroit.........The US auto companies are still bloated overpaid bureaucracies with overpaid executives pushing too much digital paper with an overpaid workforce. They are hidebound, unimaginative slow moving behemoths that aren't nimble enough to adapt to change an aren't far sighted enough to plan for the future. I've got no sympathy for them. They are dinosaurs and are slowly being passed by.
Is outsourcing bad because someone else can do it cheaper? Is it our fault we can't match them? Is it our fault we can't do something in the world market that is valuable enough that we can afford to buy the best quality from ourselves or others? Money is soulless. It follows profit. It goes where the margin is greatest. Things are what they are today for very real underlying economic reasons.

BTW, when I talked to Irwin and explained how we in the US didn't like their outsourcing, the first thing they said is "You're not our only market", with the implication that we aren't even their most important market.........

 

[sonnyboy]

I would love to see the people in DeWitt, NE come together and start a new company making products in direct competition with the Irwin Vise Grip. Although difficult, it could be done.

In the area where I live, a large company shut down a plant that employed about 500 people of varying skill levels (including a few of my friends), and moved operations outside of the USA. A few of the management that was soon to be jobless, and some local investors, with the help of the local city development office, was able to put together a new company, making similar products, and keeping a majority of the former workforce employed at similar pay. Five years later, it continues to thrive.

 

[catfish]

I would love to see the people in DeWitt, NE come together and start a new company making products in direct competition with the Irwin Vise Grip. Although difficult, it could be done.

In the area where I live, a large company shut down a plant that employed about 500 people of varying skill levels (including a few of my friends), and moved operations outside of the USA. A few of the management that was soon to be jobless, and some local investors, with the help of the local city development office, was able to put together a new company, making similar products, and keeping a majority of the former workforce employed at similar pay. Five years later, it continues to thrive.

The same thing happened at the main Royal Doulton factory in the UK.When they shut that down and started making all the porcelain in Thailand some of the old workers set up their own ceramic plant making low numbers of hand painted stuff , of the highest quality.Last i heard they were doing good business.

Would the patents for vice grips have expired by now? I know the design has changed since the original ones came out.

 

[thetreshon]

I would love to see the people in DeWitt, NE come together and start a new company making products in direct competition with the Irwin Vise Grip. Although difficult, it could be done.

In the area where I live, a large company shut down a plant that employed about 500 people of varying skill levels (including a few of my friends), and moved operations outside of the USA. A few of the management that was soon to be jobless, and some local investors, with the help of the local city development office, was able to put together a new company, making similar products, and keeping a majority of the former workforce employed at similar pay. Five years later, it continues to thrive.

What is the NEW company that you speak of (what was the old company?). Very interested to know...what kind of products do they make?

thanks

 

[demographic]

BTW, when I talked to Irwin and explained how we in the US didn't like their outsourcing, the first thing they said is "You're not our only market", with the implication that we aren't even their most important market.........

Valid point but I would like to know if they still charge the same premium price (or close considering shipping charge and so on) for their product in places like India and China.

 

[honcho]

Vise-Grips, although the patents are long expired, is a valuable brand and lots of people will buy the product no matter where it's produced. That's the problem, most people don't care where the product is made as long as it nominally does what it's supposed to do. The number of people who care about where things are made is pretty darn small in the grand scheme of things.

I don't like paying high prices for cheaply made products so if I'm forced to buy a Chinese made tool, I try to pay only a Chinese price. It pains me to see companies move production to China and keep the same price as a USA made product.

When we buy old USA-made tools, regardless of whether we buy them used or find old stock on the shelves, we're maximizing the utility of those tools to us. It's the same thing companies do when they close USA manufacturing and outsource to China or other places--maximizing their utility (and profits).

My friends, it is capitalism at work and we're both the victims and beneficiaries of it. We can vote everyday with our money but it takes lots and lots of votes to make anything happen. Remember than next time you buy anything--you're voting!

 

[NUTTSGT]

I found a pair of Made in the USA vise-grips at Sears a few months back. I should have bought them but I didn't. I need to check out the small hardware store to see what they have left in their stock.

 

[Super Cholo]

Flog your Congressmen. Its more effective. John--Las Vegas.

 

[Bolster]

This topic's always fun. Dig this:

In the US today, 22.5 million work for the government, but only 11.5 million working in manufacturing.

THAT'S a problem. As the saying goes: "A nation of takers, not a nation of makers."

Say what you want about China, at least it's the opposite in terms of ratio.

 

[route246]

If you want insight into how big and organized the sourcing is in China, check out alibaba.com. Do a random search on "tool chest" or "ratchet" and then drill down in the categories. The rants here are all good and fine but the ship has already sailed and it's bringing us thousands of tons of this stuff at very cheap prices.

 

[Fordman7795]

I was at Home Depot the other day wasting some time and i come across the crescent, channellock and vise grip section. Above the Crescent wrenches was a hand made sign "CRESCENT PROUDLY MADE IN THE USA" Above the Channel lock and irwin vise grips was a sign that said "CHANNELOCK AND IRWIN PROUDLY MADE IN THE USA" As a Union sheet metal worker, i was disgusted. Ive known for years that irwin moved there production outside the USA. Thats why i do as mentioned, i shop rummage sales, flea markets, pawn stores etc for the older quality MADE IN USA vise grip. After i read the sign i got an employee and i told him he should take it down because its false advertising. I explained that they were now made in china or taiwan. He seemed like he didnt care but the next day when i came back to check on it, the sign was down.

 

[Lump]

Many of you have seen my tool-haul posts over the past year or two. I've bought LOTS of used premium quality tools, including USA-made Petersen brand Vise Grips. They are still plentiful out there, if you're willing to look for them. Moreover, you can often buy a used pair in excellent condition, for less than you can buy a new pair of the "global components" grips. I like those old Petersen-made Vise Grips, and so that is what I buy.

If you prefer USA-made Vise Grips, then just buy them used. If you don't go to used-tool events, just post a Garage Journal classified ad stating "WTB US-made Vise Grips", and plenty of GJ members can help you.

On the other hand, if you wish to buy brand new Irwin brand Vise Grips; they are available in many stores, hanging on the rack brand new. Go for it.

No need to attack each other's different opinions about this. We won't change world markets, or each other's ideas. In the end, we're all going to buy what we prefer anyway. So just do it, and enjoy.

 

[ibedayank]

When shipped from china on a china owned boat with china owned containers do you honestly think it costs $5 to ship ONE ratchet....
Costs us $5000 to ship a 20 foot long 8 wide 8 tall container to england full of cycle parts. To ship just one cylinder it was $125 shipping. 12x12 inch box
that container will hold about 1280 12 inch square boxes if shipped seperately would be $160,000 in shipping> Now just how many 3/8s ratchets could you ship in a container
most ships hold more than 400 containers.