Tooling organization

[paranoid56]

With a ball nose end mill, you can't use a 50% overlap or you end up with the ridges. The smaller overlap you can do the better. It takes longer but gives a better finish. For what you are doing, try a flat bottom cutter, 2 flute, then you can run a 50% overlap. For a ball nose, I wouldn't go more than 5-10% at the most overlap for a decent finish.

Yea the only reason for the ball mill was to give the inside edges the roundness. i normally use a 2 fluke flat cutter and can do 10% overlap. when i do the next test i will probably do 90-95% overlap with the ball or just switch back to my normal flat bit

 

[lilscorpion]

heres my attempt.
using a 1/4" ball mill (max size my cnc router can go) and first time trying something like this. this was with 50% overlap, but going to need to do much more on the next test.
i cut two samples at .5" deep. still need to mess with a bit.
one was just a rectangle hole and the other was my attempt to couture to the handle.
not sure which one i will do, but seems interesting. I will say the rectangle is much easier to draw

i only cut the outline on the contoured one, but next test i will cut the shank too.

with the screwdrivers.

Sweet! How big is your cutting area? It would be awesome if you have enough of a cutting area to do a entire drawer insert in a single run. I have to refixture a few times which *****.

Kevin's right, you'll need to use an overlap that's small enough to remove the radius of the tip. I think I used a .375 ball and a .025 step over which is like...95% I think? To give you context consider this tray

And the up close showing the overlap - best I could find but the tooling marks in the bottom of the profile give you some idea of how tight.

Gonna show some pics of the process and setup? How fast is your cut speed with the router? Bet you're hauling to compensate for the RPM you're probably spinning the cutter at...

Why is the max cutter size 1/4"? Is that the biggest collet you have for your router or is there another reason like software limitations? Just curious.

 

[paranoid56]

Sweet! How big is your cutting area? It would be awesome if you have enough of a cutting area to do a entire drawer insert in a single run. I have to refixture a few times which *****.

Kevin's right, you'll need to use an overlap that's small enough to remove the radius of the tip. I think I used a .375 ball and a .025 step over which is like...95% I think? To give you context consider this tray

And the up close showing the overlap - best I could find but the tooling marks in the bottom of the profile give you some idea of how tight.

Gonna show some pics of the process and setup? How fast is your cut speed with the router? Bet you're hauling to compensate for the RPM you're probably spinning the cutter at...

Why is the max cutter size 1/4"? Is that the biggest collet you have for your router or is there another reason like software limitations? Just curious.

my cutting area is around 2ftx4ft. it uses trim type router so i am limited to 1/4" shank size. I do have a larger fly type cutter for it to deck the base. However, i have never actually done a cut job that uses the full 2x4 table. i normally just do 1ftx2ft at a time as it works for what i cut normally.

as for the ball end mill, it was the first time using it so i had no idea. on the next test i will do 95% overlap or just use a straight bit

i am running a speed of around 30k RPM and i cant remember the ipm i am running. all i can remember was 400% speed

the other issue i have is my program only does 2.5D routering. (i didnt poney up for the more expensive software that does full 3D cutting. (i really should have) so to do multiple depths, i have to run a program for each depth. kinda a pita but its workable. i can also take a G-code and cut that no problem, i just cant generate gcode thats multi depth.

and a pic of my setup. i added air blowers in front of of the rollers as cutting plastic all the time it would sometimes jam and loose zero and mess me up.

 

[paranoid56]

ok i just checked, i am running 100ipm on the x and y and 20 ipm on the z

 

[lilscorpion]

ok i just checked, i am running 100ipm on the x and y and 20 ipm on the z

Sweet setup what table is that? Awesome cutting area. 100 IPM is hauling but so is the RPM...what's the depth of the cut per pass? With the overlap you were using I bet it was throwing some chips. My mill can make one hell of a mess in no time flat with plastic especially HDPE because the chip breaks so nice.

When are you going to try a tray again?!

 

[paranoid56]

only doing a depth of around 1/8" at a time. the table setup is from torchmate originally made for doing plasma cutting. so i am kinda tapping it out in terms of routering. I should have done more research on this before as i think i would have gotten a stronger more HD table.

and yea, this thing makes the biggest mess in my garage. i can usually fill up a 55gal can of plastic shavings (or as my wife calls it "snow" ) every few weeks.

i should be able to make another attempt tomorrow as i have customer stuff i have been cutting every night.

 

[MN4x4]

Just finished reading this entire thread, and - besides being overwhelmed by all the great ideas - I have a question for you that I hope isn't a repeat. At what height(s) did you mount your french cleats? If you could start all over again, would you put them at the same height? Why or why not?

Thanks in advance for your answer - I definitely plan on stealing a number of your ideas for my shop.

 

[paranoid56]

so did a test on the 95% overlap. yea not going to do that one scrwedriver pocket would take over an hour to cut. as i dont have a good way to do a rough cut then a finish cut.
will have to keep messing with it, and maybe do another tool path just for the finish pass and rough pass

 

[lilscorpion]

so did a test on the 95% overlap. yea not going to do that one scrwedriver pocket would take over an hour to cut. as i dont have a good way to do a rough cut then a finish cut.
will have to keep messing with it, and maybe do another tool path just for the finish pass and rough pass

Could you do the bulk of the work with a conventional (not ball) end mill and then switch to the ball and just do the finish perimeter pass to get the radius in the bottom? Would allow you to run as you did with overlap and get the finished effect.

 

[lilscorpion]

Just finished reading this entire thread, and - besides being overwhelmed by all the great ideas - I have a question for you that I hope isn't a repeat. At what height(s) did you mount your french cleats? If you could start all over again, would you put them at the same height? Why or why not?

Thanks in advance for your answer - I definitely plan on stealing a number of your ideas for my shop.

By what height do you mean what's the spacing between them vertically?

That measurement is 2 3/4-inches. I selected that height for a few of reasons.

(1) keeping them closer together eliminates the need to put a spacer/wall standoff on the bottom of the items I hang on the wall cleats. A lower cleat does the job.

(2) More flexibility in where things can be and the size of things I can attach

(3) spacing them apart further seemed to reduce the useable wall space since I couldn't use the space between for other stuff without limiting what I could hang on the cleats.

(4) Since I started with 2 3/4-inches, that's just how I've done it everywhere out of habit. In fact, I walk over to the bench and have to measure every time because I can't remember.

 

[Kevin54]

so did a test on the 95% overlap. yea not going to do that one scrwedriver pocket would take over an hour to cut. as i dont have a good way to do a rough cut then a finish cut.
will have to keep messing with it, and maybe do another tool path just for the finish pass and rough pass

Can you make two programs? One to run the profile of the part with the ballnose end mill, then step over half the distance of the ballnose and run a 2 flute flat bottom end mill at the same depth as the ballnose. the flat bottom could run between 50%-100% stepover, although I would probably use 75% stepover all for the fact that the delrin cuts very nice.

 

[mdbeck1]

...snip....

and yea, this thing makes the biggest mess in my garage. i can usually fill up a 55gal can of plastic shavings (or as my wife calls it "snow" ) every few weeks.

I don't know much about the different types of plastic but couldn't you melt the shavings down into a flat mold and make a new flat plate out of it? ...or would you need to add pressure to the mix? ...or keep the mold hot while it was being loaded???

 

[paranoid56]

did a test piece on some MDF i had laying around. turned out well. now to find the missing screwdrivers

 

[Kevin54]

my cutting area is around 2ftx4ft. it uses trim type router so i am limited to 1/4" shank size. I do have a larger fly type cutter for it to deck the base. However, i have never actually done a cut job that uses the full 2x4 table. i normally just do 1ftx2ft at a time as it works for what i cut normally.

as for the ball end mill, it was the first time using it so i had no idea. on the next test i will do 95% overlap or just use a straight bit

i am running a speed of around 30k RPM and i cant remember the ipm i am running. all i can remember was 400% speed

the other issue i have is my program only does 2.5D routering. (i didnt poney up for the more expensive software that does full 3D cutting. (i really should have) so to do multiple depths, i have to run a program for each depth. kinda a pita but its workable. i can also take a G-code and cut that no problem, i just cant generate gcode thats multi depth.

and a pic of my setup. i added air blowers in front of of the rollers as cutting plastic all the time it would sometimes jam and loose zero and mess me up.

Paranoid........if you put brushes on each side of your router frame, you won't have chips or sawdust all over the place. I don't know where I have seen them at buy you can get different lengths, and they look like a 1/2" wide pushbroom. You could probably cut a couple out of a cheap push broom.

Sweet setup what table is that? Awesome cutting area. 100 IPM is hauling but so is the RPM...what's the depth of the cut per pass? With the overlap you were using I bet it was throwing some chips. My mill can make one hell of a mess in no time flat with plastic especially HDPE because the chip breaks so nice.

When are you going to try a tray again?!

It odd about the plastic but as soon as you start cutting it, all of a sudden it turns magnetic and stick to anything and everything I love working with plastic though.

 

[paranoid56]

Paranoid........if you put brushes on each side of your router frame, you won't have chips or sawdust all over the place. I don't know where I have seen them at buy you can get different lengths, and they look like a 1/2" wide pushbroom. You could probably cut a couple out of a cheap push broom.



It odd about the plastic but as soon as you start cutting it, all of a sudden it turns magnetic and stick to anything and everything I love working with plastic though.

i have tried the brushes before this setup and while it was way way better then stock, i still had some issues with some plastic getting past the brush, I also depending on what i am cutting made a dust type shield with a vacuum attachment right at the router so it just ***** up the plastic as its cutting.

 

[lilscorpion]

did a test piece on some MDF i had laying around. turned out well. now to find the missing screwdrivers

Looks good! I hate finding screw drivers. Thing about the tray (as I found out) it's more enjoyable to put the drivers away so they end up where they're supposed to be more often...a positive side effect.

 

[lilscorpion]

i have tried the brushes before this setup and while it was way way better then stock, i still had some issues with some plastic getting past the brush, I also depending on what i am cutting made a dust type shield with a vacuum attachment right at the router so it just ***** up the plastic as its cutting.

Have you tried a router boot and a dust collection system?

I could imagine that if it could evacuate the chips fast enough bad things would happen but if there was ample vacuum you'd get almost none anywhere else. I've seen them in use and they do well. I wish I could do something similar on the mill.

 

[paranoid56]

I have one, but it only works with small cuts. say anything under a 1/2" of cutting depth. when i tried to use it on thicker it ends up catching the bristles. I have seen some that slide up and down independent of the router but haven't tried those yet.

 

[hoffmand]

So far, all bonding methods have failed that way. If I ever get back to organizing (truck project seems to keep on keeping on but I am seriously enjoying being able to find my tools easily), I'll attempt a few of these ideas. Probably move to the 3m or boat stuff quick though if I don't find a silver bullet quick...I really like your clamping idea, it's got me thinking.

I just found your awesome thread so apologies if you've already moved on from the dual color trays. If not (or for anyone else who wants to make them) the key to bonding HDPE is to flame treat the surfaces. HDPE is a low surface energy material like Teflon so almost nothing sticks to it. A flame will oxidize the surface and allow a much better bond. This is a pretty good video of the process:

TAP Plastics and others make two part adhesives for HDPE but try flame treating and whatever adhesive you already have first. You're not trying to make a critical structural bond so it might be enough. A screw or peg on the corners to carry any shear load during machining would help a lot too.

Dave

 

[lilscorpion]

I just found your awesome thread so apologies if you've already moved on from the dual color trays. If not (or for anyone else who wants to make them) the key to bonding HDPE is to flame treat the surfaces. HDPE is a low surface energy material like Teflon so almost nothing sticks to it. A flame will oxidize the surface and allow a much better bond. This is a pretty good video of the process:

TAP Plastics and others make two part adhesives for HDPE but try flame treating and whatever adhesive you already have first. You're not trying to make a critical structural bond so it might be enough. A screw or peg on the corners to carry any shear load during machining would help a lot too.

Dave

Awesome video, thanks for the link. I haven't moved on, just not back to the socket trays yet. This will certainly help when I do. Can't believe I didn't find this when I was looking. It's by King too.

 

[bigtumtum]

Paranoid........if you put brushes on each side of your router frame, you won't have chips or sawdust all over the place. I don't know where I have seen them at buy you can get different lengths, and they look like a 1/2" wide pushbroom. You could probably cut a couple out of a cheap push broom.



It odd about the plastic but as soon as you start cutting it, all of a sudden it turns magnetic and stick to anything and everything I love working with plastic though.

Say do you program it in iso (fanuc)

 

[carnutdallas]

WOW....Spent all morning and most of the afternoon helping my clients and reading this post Incredible.

I am going to comment in a slightly different fashion - INSURANCE and lots of it. I would get a special policy and work with a company that can properly insure your efforts. Luckily you have it documented on this site, but you want to do more. Video every drawer, complete walk around and a verbal value assigned to each item on the video Then store offsite - safety deposit box and cloud server, so you can share easily with Ins. Co. Trust me, you want to do this. You need to make sure you have a rider on the policy for the items you have built and the tools. Heaven for bid anything go wrong, but your time and efforts can go up in flames and while starting over could be fun, it will be very, very expensive.

I am in the auto body and collision industry. I deal with insurance companies all day long and I was a licensed agent many years ago. Insurance companies are not your friends and they prefer to not pay especially if you lack documentation, values or proper policy riders for specialized equipment. Just my .02 worth.

 

[kf4zht]

I am very impressed, have tons of ideas now. I am re-thinking pegboard now, luckily I am not too far in. Ironically the first thing I made on my CNC mill (tiny MACNC-10) was a screwdriver bit holder out of delrin. I have used AIN Plastics before when I needed a sheet of .250 lexan for a windshield. At the time I was also able to get several delrin drops (at least 2'x2') for pretty good prices. Their minimum order is around $200, which I don't consider that bad.

Question on the French cleats - what is the reason for the vertical sections every 2' or so, rather than just running the cleat unbroken along the wall? Are these at studs for strength or just for looks?

 

[lilscorpion]

I am going to comment in a slightly different fashion - INSURANCE and lots of it. I would get a special policy and work with a company that can properly insure your efforts

So I don't forget, thanks for reminding me! I do have a habit of taking pictures around the shop (in and out of drawers) with before and after pics about every 3 or 4 months. That being said, I haven't done a full pass yet this year (only here and there). I'm off tomorrow so it'll be the first thing I do.

I do have a rider that covers the tools. I'll also give them a call and check in on it. Very good advice. It's easy to forget.

I am very impressed, have tons of ideas now. I am re-thinking pegboard now, luckily I am not too far in. Ironically the first thing I made on my CNC mill (tiny MACNC-10) was a screwdriver bit holder out of delrin. I have used AIN Plastics before when I needed a sheet of .250 lexan for a windshield. At the time I was also able to get several delrin drops (at least 2'x2') for pretty good prices. Their minimum order is around $200, which I don't consider that bad.

Thanks for the compliments. CNC is the best thing I ever purchased (maybe the most fun kind of "work" too). Take a look into the HDPE (Starboard is one of the MFG's). The stuff machines like butter and breaks nicely. Though delrin makes some nice parts, it's more stringy and tends to need a little more attention when cutting. HDPE is cheaper too I think and easier to come by.

Question on the French cleats - what is the reason for the vertical sections every 2' or so, rather than just running the cleat unbroken along the wall? Are these at studs for strength or just for looks?

Well you'd be right. Typically it would make more sense to have the cleats run and span the bench but I had two problems. First, I wanted to cut the cleats against the grain and my sheets were 4-feet wide and the bench is 8-feet long. Realizing that there was no way to make that work I remembered I wanted to have an outlet on the bench wall anyway so I planned ahead.

All of the screws are spaced to allow for a dual gang box centered between. At some point I'll run the new wires from the other side of the house and when I do, I'll have two of them on the backsplash. By adding those boards, it turned out that the drops I had were now big enough to handle the cleats to fill between.

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

Re: Tool Organization

This photo gives me the idea to make the door filler panels from a dry erase whiteboard. Thanks!
(if I do it, I'll take FULL credit for the clever idea)

 

[Arps]

Re: Tool Organization

I just joined the forum to say this is the most impressive organization system Ive ever seen. Well done sir!

 

[lilscorpion]

Re: Tool Organization

This photo gives me the idea to make the door filler panels from a dry erase whiteboard. Thanks!

Originally I picked white melamine because a friend of mine used it for a backsplash on his counter top where he would write notes on it with a sharpie and then clean it with lacquer thinner. My plan was to be able to do the same (like a dry erase board) but after doing it a few times I realized that the lacquer thinner takes a little of the melamine surface off and slightly discoloration the surface more and more with each cleaning. In short, the center panel started to look like **** after only a few cleanings so I abandoned the scratch pad idea and tried black. It would be much smarter to use dry erase material. Regardless of what you use, I'd make the panel in the doors removable so you can replace it as it becomes unsightly. Even dry erase material gets crappy over time.

...if I do it, I'll take FULL credit for the clever idea

I used to design and manufacture products that others copied and took full credit for and many individuals and companies make a living doing so. I've made piece with how the world works and I'm totally comfortable with it now. I wouldn't share if I gave a **** about stuff like that.

 

[MetalMangler]

Re: Tool Organization

Originally I picked white melamine because a friend of mine used it for a backsplash on his counter top where he would write notes on it with a sharpie and then clean it with lacquer thinner. My plan was to be able to do the same (like a dry erase board) but after doing it a few times I realized that the lacquer thinner takes a little of the melamine surface off and slightly discoloration the surface more and more with each cleaning. In short, the center panel started to look like **** after only a few cleanings so I abandoned the scratch pad idea and tried black. It would be much smarter to use dry erase material. Regardless of what you use, I'd make the panel in the doors removable so you can replace it as it becomes unsightly. Even dry erase material gets crappy over time.

At work I'd found that our whiteboards were getting pretty dirty and none of the whiteboard cleaners we had would really clean them. Someone swore by the scrubbing bubbles tub/tile cleaner, and when I tried it I am now a believer. The generic "Foaming disinfectant bathroom cleaner" works just as well, and leaves the boards looking white as new. Not sure if it "ruins" the whiteboard surface, but it was unusable before and is now pristine. And if I need to clean it again with the foam, I've got a big spray can ready.

MM

 

[Kevin54]

Say do you program it in iso (fanuc)

Bitumtum.... Not sure if I understand your question, but I think you asked the wrong person. I didn't cut out the tool holders.

 

[anyheck]

Re: Tool Organization

Give a try to "wet-erase" markers, they don't use an organic solvent like regular "dry erase" markers, you take them off with water or a bit of extra elbow grease.

For example:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FA01AE/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Kevin54]

One thing you can do with the white boards and dry erase markers, is to wax your whiteboard with a good automotive wax. I find that it keeps the markers from soaking in or filling in the pores or whatever it does when it doesn't totally erase. And with the waxing, it also takes OFF the old marks on the board that wiping with the rag doesn't take off.

 

[SUNBURNTsnype]

What would any of you guys suggest for making silhoutte cut-outs for tools in a tool chest for those of us without machining tools? Is there a cheap foam or foam padding alternative that could be re-purposed to make the tool cutouts that is easy to cut and light? I wonder if maybe i could wrpa tools in cellophane or ziplock bags, and use some type of expandable foam that i could then cut down and remove the tools to reveal the pockets for the tools.

Or I was also thinking of cardboard. Unless anyone has any other ideas?

 

[paranoid56]

if anybody wants some cut, i can do them for a minimal price. I normally have black and white HDPE in stock. however, they would only be cut to one depth and you would need to provide the dimensions. (or if the op wants he can cut them too )

 

[DallasRusk]

Every time I see your cabinet doors I think the black parts should be chalkboard paint. I like the black look, and the chalkboard paint lets you write notes too.

And the chalk doesn't get ruined if you leave the cap off it like dry erase markers. And if you accidentally drop one on or mark on your project wood it can be easily cleaned unlike markers.

 

[lilscorpion]

if anybody wants some cut, i can do them for a minimal price. I normally have black and white HDPE in stock. however, they would only be cut to one depth and you would need to provide the dimensions. (or if the op wants he can cut them too )

I'd have to convince my wife that the house projects aren't as important as someone else's toolbox...that might be a tough sell. I wish I had the time. If I did, I'd gladly do some here and there just for fun. For now I better focus on finishing the tile in the bathroom.

 

[paranoid56]

I'd have to convince my wife that the house projects aren't as important as someone else's toolbox...that might be a tough sell. I wish I had the time. If I did, I'd gladly do some here and there just for fun. For now I better focus on finishing the tile in the bathroom.

lol tell me about it. i just finished installing 1000sqft of hardwood in half of our house and finally finished up the kitchen remodel. sooo tired of working on house stuff

 

[2jz4me]

Teach me your ways.

 

[lilscorpion]

lol tell me about it. i just finished installing 1000sqft of hardwood in half of our house and finally finished up the kitchen remodel. sooo tired of working on house stuff

You're on the other side then. I'm finishing the bathroom on the main floor this weekend. Next weekend the kitchen remodel starts and the wood floors have to be finished by Christmas...

 

[Kevin54]

What would any of you guys suggest for making silhoutte cut-outs for tools in a tool chest for those of us without machining tools? Is there a cheap foam or foam padding alternative that could be re-purposed to make the tool cutouts that is easy to cut and light? I wonder if maybe i could wrpa tools in cellophane or ziplock bags, and use some type of expandable foam that i could then cut down and remove the tools to reveal the pockets for the tools.

Or I was also thinking of cardboard. Unless anyone has any other ideas?

For one, get a profile gauge. This way, no matter what tool you have, you can easily get the profile of it, then transfer that profile to a white poster board. Cut the poster board to the size that fits in whichever drawer of your toolbox. Then you can either send that poster board to someone that has a CNC Router and get the cutout cut into what ever material you want, or you can lay the posterboard over a piece of foam and will have something to cut to for shadowing your box.

 

[Jtcrep]

For one, get a profile gauge. This way, no matter what tool you have, you can easily get the profile of it, then transfer that profile to a white poster board. Cut the poster board to the size that fits in whichever drawer of your toolbox. Then you can either send that poster board to someone that has a CNC Router and get the cutout cut into what ever material you want, or you can lay the posterboard over a piece of foam and will have something to cut to for shadowing your box.

A great idea! Filling this away for later.