Tooling organization

[Wingnut65]

And just in those few updates, you've shown a cool work table idea and a few jigs that I didn't even know I needed! I can see how usefull they could be around the shop.

And I must agree with the others before me... Your storage ideas are Awesome and can only be matched by your metal and woodworking skills.

 

[N0tt0N]

Very cool!

 

[twertsy]

Every time I come on this thread I see something ELSE I need.......My CNC Router Table is on a truck headed my way and I cannot wait to steal your ideas and organize my shop!! (3D drawings and tool paths are already set up!!)

In that vein, that's exactly what I thought you were constructing when I saw the first pic of your table, a CNC router table.

 

[thoraudio]

Awesome as always.

For your circle cutter, you can cut a slot, and then use a connector similar to what you used to attach the clamp to your Holy Table, like so.

Or, you can just add more holes to the existing unit you have, like Jasper does.

 

[IONH]

For your circle cutter, you can cut a slot, and then use a connector similar to what you used to attach the clamp to your Holy Table, like so.

Wouldn't the guide "walk" down or up the axle a little while going around?

 

[thoraudio]

Wouldn't the guide "walk" down or up the axle a little while going around?

You use a nut of some type to tighten it to the guide. It's not as precise, but it is infinitely adjustable.

 

[Scottwi]

You have to show this setup filled in the box!

Finally got the tray in the tool box, now I need to do the other 2 drawers.

 

[paranoid56]

Every time I come on this thread I see something ELSE I need.......My CNC Router Table is on a truck headed my way and I cannot wait to steal your ideas and organize my shop!! (3D drawings and tool paths are already set up!!)

In that vein, that's exactly what I thought you were constructing when I saw the first pic of your table, a CNC router table.

as a fellow CNC router guy what table did you get?

Wouldn't the guide "walk" down or up the axle a little while going around?

yes, i had this one and it sucked for that very reason. no matter what i tried, when making a large circle, by the time i got back to one side i would be a little off. I ended up buying that one in the second pic and its sweet. only downside is that its kinda fragile, but will be making an alu one shortly

 

[twertsy]

paranoid, after an exhaustive search, and calling everywhere, speaking with references, etc., I went with Industrial CNC. I got the 404 (4x4 table). I also purchased the 4th axis, which should be fun to learn how to operate.

Here's a link:

http://industrialcnc.com/routers/routers.php

 

[nolimits76]

Question ... how heavy is the HDPE material?

It's not light but after a piece get's machined it's really not that heavy. Most of the drawer inserts I have don't add that much weight when compared to what was already in the drawer.

HDPE density ranges from .93 to .97 and is measured in g/cm3. Typically .94 to .95 density is a safe bet.

FYI...here is the conversion factor from density g/cm3 (grams per cubic centimeter) to lb/in3 (pounds per cubic inch).

--->.94 density (g/cm3) = .03396 lb/in3
--->.95 density (g/cm3) = .03432 lb/in3

To get cubic inches, multiply width x length x depth (all in inch measurements)

For example, say you buy an 18" x 40" x 1/2" thick HDPE sheet, we can assume the following:

18 x 40 x 0.5 = 360 in3 x .03396 (.94 density) = 12.2256 lbs
18 x 40 x 0.5 = 360 in3 x .03432 (.95 density) = 12.3552 lbs

 

[lilscorpion]

paranoid, after an exhaustive search, and calling everywhere, speaking with references, etc., I went with Industrial CNC. I got the 404 (4x4 table). I also purchased the 4th axis, which should be fun to learn how to operate.

Here's a link:

http://industrialcnc.com/routers/routers.php

I've had a couple CNC plasma tables but never a router table. How much will one from industrial CNC cost? 3 axis.

 

[lilscorpion]

Awesome as always.

For your circle cutter, you can cut a slot, and then use a connector similar to what you used to attach the clamp to your Holy Table, like so.

Saw this one at Rockler and wondered if it would walk. That's why I didn't do the slot. Coulda drilled more holes to get closer I guess.

 

[twertsy]

I've had a couple CNC plasma tables but never a router table. How much will one from industrial CNC cost? 3 axis.

It was $12,400 with the 4th axis system. I believe they list the 4x4 table for right around $10k, just under I think.

Edit: they list it on eBay for $10,400

Here's the link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-CNC-Table-Router-Machine-3-Axis-/151237492676?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item233674ffc4

 

[lilscorpion]

Re: Tool Organization

Made a little progress on the MFT today. Screwed and glued the bottom on so I'd be ready for assembling the frame when the materials get here. Originally I was going to use the Dewalt saw horses as the frame/legs but the legs were going to be in the way which irritated me. Now the plan is an 80/20 extrusion frame with folding legs.

And some clamp art...

After pulling the clamps I realized that the top is fairly light but not extremely light. I'm now second guessing the mobility of the 7-foot x 36-inch version I have planned. It will be in two pieces so maybe it'll be okay.

 

[Strouty]

Do you have any issues with moisture and the wood used to make your shelves? It seems that it would swell since you have exposed edges. I am curious because I see so many DIY shows using MDF and similar wood to make everything. I thought MDF couldn't support its own weight? Of course I used a lot of HDF and MDF to make speaker boxes for subwoofers. I do know what happens when it actually gets wet, kind of like a paperback book.

 

[lilscorpion]

Do you have any issues with moisture and the wood used to make your shelves? It seems that it would swell since you have exposed edges. I am curious because I see so many DIY shows using MDF and similar wood to make everything. I thought MDF couldn't support its own weight? Of course I used a lot of HDF and MDF to make speaker boxes for subwoofers. I do know what happens when it actually gets wet, kind of like a paperback book.

Water/moisture will wreck wood for sure. All of my cabinets have had heavy coats of poly to seal the material. None of my cabinets have had any issues however I don't get them wet.

MDF is stays very flat and easy to machine but isn't very durable (at the edge or weight bearing when unsupported) and is very heavy. It's like cardboard when it gets wet too. I like working with plywood but that's mostly because I've grown very comfortable with machining it.

To be fair, I do live in Colorado which has a fairly dry climate and that helps.

 

[Strouty]

So all of your cabinets are plywood? I thought the stuff with the laminate on it was an MDF material? This is all just curiosity, I am interested in making some cabinets and yours look pretty damn nice.

 

[lilscorpion]

So all of your cabinets are plywood? I thought the stuff with the laminate on it was an MDF material? This is all just curiosity, I am interested in making some cabinets and yours look pretty damn nice.

The center panels in the doors are 1/4-inch melamine (liquid laminate surface) and the counter top on the main bench is laminate over particle board but everything else is either 1/2-inch or 3/4-inch Baltic Birch (higher grade plywood than the HD AC stuff).

Thanks for the compliments. My vision was some shop cabinets that were customized to hold my tools and they ended up turning out to look really nice. It does make it enjoyable to be in the garage compared to what I had previously.

 

[Strouty]

Your vision coincides with mine, they came out very nice. I appreciate the thread, keep up the organizing. You are very motivating to a lot of members.

 

[Regnar]

I have 24x96 MFT sections made of 3/4 plywood and they are not to bad to move around. I love the table and I have a feeling you will too. Total table size is 48x96 and looking to make his new one for all the wood working gear.

 

[spoonsports86]

i think this is my favorite thread

 

[lilscorpion]

I have 24x96 MFT sections made of 3/4 plywood and they are not to bad to move around. I love the table and I have a feeling you will too. Total table size is 48x96 and looking to make his new one for all the wood working gear.

Do you move them around or is it more of a stationary bench for you? I'm looking forward to building the bigger be already though I am wondering if I'll really use it enough. So many people have a Paulk inspired table. Great idea. I like your sawhorse bases better than the folding ones.

Yeah, i saw the new tool a few days ago (got notification from his youtube channel). The new on is cool - the total work bench. The guy is creative. He's probably one of those guys that can't sit still.

If I didn't have a SawStop, I'd build one.

 

[lilscorpion]

Re: Tool Organization

The components for the MFT frame showed up today and I got them all unboxed and sorted so I can begin assembly as soon as I can find the time. I now have most of what I'll need to build both the small and large MFT table bases.

I chose the 15 series extrusions because, rumor has it, MFT clamps will fit the tracks perfectly. I'll snap a shot of the importance of this next time I'm out. Dimensionally, 15 = 1.5-inches so a 1530 is a 1.5-inch x 3-inch extrusion with slots 1.5-inches apart (3/4-inch from the edge)

Here's the plan for the two MFT bases:

Small MFT Base - dimensionally the surface will be 39 x 30-inches constructed out of the 80/20 1530 light & smooth (in the picture it's the short stack second from the left) and gusseted at the joints using the triangular extrusion I'll have to machine to fit on the far right. Legs will be made with 1515 light & smooth legs (fourth stack form the left).

Large MFT Base - dimensionally the surface will be 75 x 36-inches (or so) constructed out of the 80/20 1545 light & smooth (in the picture it's the first stack on the left) also gusseted at the joints using the triangular extrusion. Same plan for legs.

 

[akdiesel]

lilscorpion

Nice build. It would be nice to have a fab table like yours, but that would mean another project on the overwhelming list.
Those aluminum frame pieces have a lot of potential for projects due to their design.

 

[tricksel]

Hi lilscorpion,

I can't say anything else than being curious every single day whether you've added another post to this thread. So much detail, so organized... Stunning!
I was wondering though; which brand of aluminum profile did you use? Is it Bosch Rexroth? AFAIK, most companies also have parts to build connections between profiles, so you wouldn't have to machine them yourself.

 

[lilscorpion]

Hi lilscorpion,

I can't say anything else than being curious every single day whether you've added another post to this thread. So much detail, so organized... Stunning!
I was wondering though; which brand of aluminum profile did you use? Is it Bosch Rexroth? AFAIK, most companies also have parts to build connections between profiles, so you wouldn't have to machine them yourself.

Thank you very much. To answer your question I get shop time two different ways - I either steal it during the week after everyone goes to bed (as long as I don't have to run the machines) or I manage to fit it in around my various commitments (like youth sports) on the weekends. I get probably 5 hours a week and steal more if I'm really into a project.

Bosch Rexroth? I have no idea honestly. Until you asked I actually thought 80/20 manufactured their own stuff. So far I've only ordered from 8020.net and haven't had any compatibility issues between the 15 series parts I've ordered.

 

[lilscorpion]

I started to lay out the table frame. To get the true strength from the torsion box I decided to make it the same width so that the sides of the frame directly supports the length of the torsion box itself. Now I can use the top itself to layout the frame.

I start by bolting on the leg hinges so I can see how they're going to work out. The fasteners for the 80/20 stuff are so simple mocking things up is extremely easy.

The hinge assembly incorporates three components. A 90-degree live hinge (allows it to move 90-degrees in only one direction), a support bracket (inside), and a limiting bracket that allows the hinge to be locked anywhere within the 90 degree range.

And rotated up in what will be the open position.

 

[lilscorpion]

To fasten extrusions together (like in the case of assembling the leg) all you have to do is tap the end of the extrusion using the correct tap and thread a bolt in. No pre-drilling is necessary.

After putting the first leg on one thing became very clear. The way the inner hinge support bolted was going to completely be in the way of the inner gussets so I needed to find a different way to attach the feet. The outer bracket could actually move to the end and fasten into the cross-brace however doing so would require a different inner support.

The picture above shows the full usefulness of the table already. I'm able to clamp directly to it and use the top itself to fixture the assembly of the base. Though I'd never thought about it, it made total sense to build the top first and then the frame. At one point I figured it made more sense to build the frame first.

With two brackets, hinges, and legs mocked up, I'm confident in the plan. I ordered the new brackets (for the other side of the live hinge) and should have them by the end of the week).

 

[lilscorpion]

lilscorpion

Nice build. It would be nice to have a fab table like yours, but that would mean another project on the overwhelming list.
Those aluminum frame pieces have a lot of potential for projects due to their design.

I have a long list too but I tend to drift towards projects like this when I'm feeling overwhelmed at work. A little mental gymnastics from time to time can do you good. When it becomes a problem is when the "little projects" I do end up big projects. Then I become a slave to things outside work which really ends up as more work. Needless to say, I try not to let it happen anymore. This assembly table isn't a small project but, in total, really won't be more than 20 - 40 hours if I just hammered it out.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Did you obtain the aluminum extrusions and fitting from a company called 80/20?

 

[lilscorpion]

Did you obtain the aluminum extrusions and fitting from a company called 80/20?

Yep, 8020.net. Some of of ebay where they have a store and some from Amazon where the advertise/sell.

 

[sakurama]

At some point I ran across this guy Ron Paulk who came up with this really cool twist on a torsion box assembly table that's specifically designed to be a mobile work bench.

...but recently a company named Festool came out with a system they call the MFT (Multi-Function Table) which incorporates many perfectly (CNC) spaced holes similar to Ron's design (which is the chicken/egg I have no idea).

Nice job!

Ron's workbench is another take (certainly one of the nicest) on the Festool MFT which came first (whether that's the chicken or egg I have no idea) but if you take some time to browse the FOG forum you'll see that there have been many "takes" on "Sysports" or "Sysbenches" or MFT tables. The common way to build them with Festools is to use the LR32 euro cabinet jig which does the holes on 32mm intervals hence the MFT is 96mm spacing and 20mm hole diameter.

For Festool users everything is based on using the track system; track saw being the main tool but also the router and jigsaws. The bigger benefit of the holes is to make dogs (just turned aluminum pegs) that go into the holes and to then bump your rail into them and the wood to get perfectly square cuts.

Since you have a table saw you probably won't need this aspect but for me, with only a track saw, it's been really essential in getting perfectly square cuts.

Ages ago in this thread I had asked you about cabinet construction and now, well over a year later, my garage cabinets are under my belt and I'm building my kitchen cabinets now and hoping I can start to incorporate a lot more of your great ideas in the garage when I get back to work on that. I've pointed numerous people to this thread as one of my favorites on GJ and perhaps the one that got me to join and subscribe. Many thanks for that.

Looking forward to your improvements to Ron's design.

Gregor

 

[lilscorpion]

Nice job!

Ron's workbench is another take (certainly one of the nicest) on the Festool MFT which came first (whether that's the chicken or egg I have no idea) but if you take some time to browse the FOG forum you'll see that there have been many "takes" on "Sysports" or "Sysbenches" or MFT tables. The common way to build them with Festools is to use the LR32 euro cabinet jig which does the holes on 32mm intervals hence the MFT is 96mm spacing and 20mm hole diameter.

For Festool users everything is based on using the track system; track saw being the main tool but also the router and jigsaws. The bigger benefit of the holes is to make dogs (just turned aluminum pegs) that go into the holes and to then bump your rail into them and the wood to get perfectly square cuts.

Since you have a table saw you probably won't need this aspect but for me, with only a track saw, it's been really essential in getting perfectly square cuts.

Ages ago in this thread I had asked you about cabinet construction and now, well over a year later, my garage cabinets are under my belt and I'm building my kitchen cabinets now and hoping I can start to incorporate a lot more of your great ideas in the garage when I get back to work on that. I've pointed numerous people to this thread as one of my favorites on GJ and perhaps the one that got me to join and subscribe. Many thanks for that.

Looking forward to your improvements to Ron's design.

Gregor

Festool has kinda been my thing lately and I found Ron's stuff inadvertently while browsing through FOG where I've been spending a lot of my time. I've still not pulled the trigger on the TS 55 REQ / DC combo but I'm getting really close...that price tag is a tough one to justify. There's just something extremely compelling about how well thought out their systems are. You just have to appreciate the mass of features.

Do you have a thread about any of the cabinets that you built? I'd really enjoy to see what you've put together. I geek on just about anything fabricated. I think that's why I really took interest in the MFT stuff. So many directions...

 

[paranoid56]

yea click on his link in his sig. you will geek out for hours its one of the best (next to yours ) thread around.

 

[lilscorpion]

Re: Tool Organization

Tapatalk doesn't have sigs it seems...loggin in normal like to check it out. Thanks!

 

[sakurama]

Festool has kinda been my thing lately and I found Ron's stuff inadvertently while browsing through FOG where I've been spending a lot of my time. I've still not pulled the trigger on the TS 55 REQ / DC combo but I'm getting really close...that price tag is a tough one to justify. There's just something extremely compelling about how well thought out their systems are. You just have to appreciate the mass of features.

Do you have a thread about any of the cabinets that you built? I'd really enjoy to see what you've put together. I geek on just about anything fabricated. I think that's why I really took interest in the MFT stuff. So many directions...

There's a real beauty to being able to put the rails together and rip things that are 16' long. I think, given what I've seen in your thread, you would really like the stuff for all the smart features. But be careful - the green koolaid can be addictive. Like you I was very hesitant because of the price but I've never regretted it when I finally plunk down. Also, you taught me about Camel, camel, camel so you can use that to find deals on used stuff on Amazon. I've bought a lot of my Festools used and the quality is so good that I've never had an issue yet. I also use Search Tempest to find local deals since Festool is unknown mostly and prices there (as compared with ebay) are often much better. Finally, they have a 30 day return period and a very good warranty and once a year or so they do a refurb sale which is 20-40% off - watch FOG for that one.

Here's a link for you - be warned it's a long one:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185104

Looking forward to seeing what you do with Festool gear.

Gregor

 

[slodat]

There's a real beauty to being able to put the rails together and rip things that are 16' long. I think, given what I've seen in your thread, you would really like the stuff for all the smart features. But be careful - the green koolaid can be addictive. Like you I was very hesitant because of the price but I've never regretted it when I finally plunk down. Also, you taught me about Camel, camel, camel so you can use that to find deals on used stuff on Amazon. I've bought a lot of my Festools used and the quality is so good that I've never had an issue yet. I also use Search Tempest to find local deals since Festool is unknown mostly and prices there (as compared with ebay) are often much better. Finally, they have a 30 day return period and a very good warranty and once a year or so they do a refurb sale which is 20-40% off - watch FOG for that one.

Here's a link for you - be warned it's a long one:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185104

Looking forward to seeing what you do with Festool gear.

Gregor

I love my Festool gear. You are right about used stuff. I have several duplicates from a once in a lifetime CL score. I just read this whole thread. I must get to bed. VERY nice work. I'm part way through a 1936 cape cod modernization. My kitchen is up next. You have done a few things I've had in my head. Ahh.. sleep is needed.

Tapatalk doesn't have sigs it seems...loggin in normal like to check it out. Thanks!

I had to do the same!

 

[lilscorpion]

There's a real beauty to being able to put the rails together and rip things that are 16' long. I think, given what I've seen in your thread, you would really like the stuff for all the smart features. But be careful - the green koolaid can be addictive. Like you I was very hesitant because of the price but I've never regretted it when I finally plunk down. Also, you taught me about Camel, camel, camel so you can use that to find deals on used stuff on Amazon. I've bought a lot of my Festools used and the quality is so good that I've never had an issue yet. I also use Search Tempest to find local deals since Festool is unknown mostly and prices there (as compared with ebay) are often much better. Finally, they have a 30 day return period and a very good warranty and once a year or so they do a refurb sale which is 20-40% off - watch FOG for that one.

Here's a link for you - be warned it's a long one:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185104

Looking forward to seeing what you do with Festool gear.

Gregor

Gregor...all I can say is WOW!! Awesome thread. Usually I picture flip and skip most of the commentary but I read every word and studied each picture...fantastic ideas and skills. Not sure how I've missed it..

I'm a tool junkie. I admit it and I'm sure everyone knows it. I keep avoiding the Festool cool aid because I know once I taste it, it'll all be over. I have a local store that has a million dollar display (read every damn tool they make) and I've spent hours just playing and oogling. Pic up any of their tools and I start justifying the purchase almost immediately still I've done a good job resisting...can't...hold...out...much...longer. Thanks for the tips. Checking all of them now.

 

[lilscorpion]

I got an opportunity to get a little further along with the frame and started with cutting down the spreaders (the two cross beams that run perpendicular to the length of the table). I cut the extrusions on the miter saw and then faced them on the mill. Given the 1 1/2-inch thickness of the extrusion I had to use one of my large ball mills to face them. It worked but looks wrong.

Sometimes I get a little lucky. The first stop setup on the vise ended up perfect. I always use a stop each time I have to do repeatable machining because it allows me to get the next one exactly the same as the previous always.

With both of the spreaders finished, I tapped each one and attached the brackets and measured for the legs.

The total thickness of the top plus the sides of the frame was 11 inches. Since I'm shooting for 36, I needed to make the legs 25 less the thickness of the 90-degree live hinge less the height of the foot. After mocking it up in an extrusion, it looks like I need to allow for 1-inch of length fully compressed. This will allow the table to adjust over 36-inches for now (getting no shorter). It's unlikely that I'll ever want it shorter and if I do, I could just replace the torsion box top with a normal top which would effectively lower it 8 inches.

After rough cutting the 1515 extrusions to length and re-setting the stop on the mill I faced the one side and tapped the other.

I forget sometimes how much I like running multiples of a single part. When I owned the business I always thought that doing so would be boring and mundane. Turns out that I kinda get a rush out of seeing a stack of parts that are identical. In no time I had the 4 legs assembled and attached to the brackets.

 

[lilscorpion]

I now need to deal with a problem I saw coming after I went threw the parts after sorting through the parts. The idea was that the base could be folded up and moved around as needed and doing so should have been easy with the live hinges however a problem I didn't realize until a few days ago was that this shorter table wasn't long enough for the legs to lay down in a way that looked planned.

One of the hinges needs an additional 1 1/2-inches of clearance between the live hinge and the frame. It's times like this that I really like that I have the ability to make parts when I need them. The bracket material was fortunately 1/4-inch aluminum which happens to be the only aluminum plate I have at the moment. After cutting some blanks on the miter saw and a few minutes on the mill, I now have what I need to make it work.

I'll run a finish profile on the brackets before re-assembly but for now I rough cut the profiles using the miter saw so I could test everything. I re-used the bushing from the original brackets since I had extras. When I build the big frame I'll just make some to replace them.

After re-attaching the brackets and legs, a quick test resulted in success. Now the table will fold up nicely or at least they'll look like the design was intentional and less like a design failure.

Now all that's left is machining and attaching the braces, tapping the legs for the feet, and fabricating away for the top to easily and quickly attach to the frame. Hopefully the final brackets will be here tomorrow so I can flip it over and admire it.