Tools for a ductless mini-split install

[stretchhenry]

Evening All,

I'm planning to get my feet wet with a ductless mini-split install after receiving a number of surprisingly high quotes for a complete install.
I'm pretty confident about the actual rigging, but if you would indulge me I'd like to get your $0.02 on the tools for charging.

As I see it, I'll need a tank of dry Nitrogen, valve and pressure gauges to test for leaks. Can I rent the tank? Do I need some sort of EPA license?

For the evacuation, i'm looking at this vacuum pump from Amazon...

http://tinyurl.com/mj78o3f

Comments? I see the specifications in "CFM", but how does this relate to the 500 microns listed in the LG manual?

Thanks for getting this far!

\\Mark

 

[brewchief]

You will need,
Refrigerant manifold gauge set rated for the refrigerant you are using(should be r410a).

Nitrogen tank and regulator, you might find a welding shop that will rent out bottles, if you have any welding tanks you may be able to trade for the bottle you need even if it's only temporary, this will depend on the gas supplier. For one time use get the smallest bottle you can, 40cf would be more then enough, not sure if you can get nitro in anything smaller.

Vacuum pump, I would look for a name brand if possible, I think I've seen a small robinair for under a 100$, CFM doesn't have anything to do with the microns it can pull but rather how fast it can get there, I use an 8cfm Appion, its fast but also an 800$ plus pump.

You really need a vacuum gauge to read microns, I have a JB digital that works pretty nice. Looks like around 170$ on amazon.

If you need to add refrigerant you will need a digital scale and refrigerant of course.

Some of the minis use a different size service valve fitting so you may need an adapter.

 

[stretchhenry]

Thanks so much for getting back to me and so quickly!

>>Refrigerant manifold gauge set rated for the refrigerant you are using(should be r410a).
Good point, yes it uses R-410A which operates at a much higher pressure I believe.

>>If you need to add refrigerant you will need a digital scale and refrigerant of course.
Based on the length of the line set, I should not need to add or remove refrigerant.

>>Some of the minis use a different size service valve fitting so you may need an adapter
I'll check on that.

Thanks again!

 

[jonathan75]

Thanks so much for getting back to me and so quickly!

>>Refrigerant manifold gauge set rated for the refrigerant you are using(should be r410a).
Good point, yes it uses R-410A which operates at a much higher pressure I believe.

>>If you need to add refrigerant you will need a digital scale and refrigerant of course.
Based on the length of the line set, I should not need to add or remove refrigerant.

>>Some of the minis use a different size service valve fitting so you may need an adapter
I'll check on that.

Thanks again!

Here is the adapter I got. If yours is 5/16 it should work.

http://amzn.com/B00D96EWKQ

 

[jonathan75]

I am preparing for my install too. Keep a eye out for my thread. But I picked up some tools to shorten the lines and make new flares. I heard you should not trust the factory flares anyway. Here are a few things I picked up based on quality and need.

Yellow Jacket 60163 Tube Deburring Tool
http://amzn.com/B003ANRL2E

Yellow Jacket 60278 Deluxe 45 Flaring Tool HVAC NEW
Link: http://amzn.com/B002SB5RMA

Yellow Jacket 60101 Premium Tube Cutters (Small Cutter for 1/8" to 1-1/8" O.D.)
Link: http://amzn.com/B0038YD8AY

NYLOG-GASKET/THREAD SEALANT
Refrigeration Technologies
Link: http://amzn.com/B008HOSQQQ

You can also pick a vacuum pump for $99 at Harbor Freight Tools. I have a friend who is going to loan me one. He does not have gauges for 410A but I am just going to pull a vacuum and not fill anything if all goes well so I don't care. A micron gauge would be nice but it costs too much. I will try to just use the gauges and use my micron eye on the needle.

 

[JakeKohl]

Watch that you are using the correct flaring tool. I believe most of the mini-splits are 45 degrees.

 

[jonathan75]

Watch that you are using the correct flaring tool. I believe most of the mini-splits are 45 degrees.

I think the flares are deeper too because of the higher PSI. More surface area for better seal.

 

[stretchhenry]

I am preparing for my install too. Keep a eye out for my thread. But I picked up some tools to shorten the lines and make new flares. I heard you should not trust the factory flares anyway. Here are a few things I picked up based on quality and need.

Yellow Jacket 60163 Tube Deburring Tool
http://amzn.com/B003ANRL2E

Yellow Jacket 60278 Deluxe 45 Flaring Tool HVAC NEW
Link: http://amzn.com/B002SB5RMA

Yellow Jacket 60101 Premium Tube Cutters (Small Cutter for 1/8" to 1-1/8" O.D.)
Link: http://amzn.com/B0038YD8AY

NYLOG-GASKET/THREAD SEALANT
Refrigeration Technologies
Link: http://amzn.com/B008HOSQQQ

You can also pick a vacuum pump for $99 at Harbor Freight Tools. I have a friend who is going to loan me one. He does not have gauges for 410A but I am just going to pull a vacuum and not fill anything if all goes well so I don't care. A micron gauge would be nice but it costs too much. I will try to just use the gauges and use my micron eye on the needle.

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for your install... This is my shopping list so far

http://amzn.com/w/1ZAW4F4CY0I0F

I was originally thinking about getting a HVAC guy to test and evac, but after looking at RKA's post (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127401) and very complete write up, I'm concerned that the tech will not spend the time to pull a good vacuum. Also I'm planning on installing another single and eventually (if I get bold enough) a multi mini-split for the other side of the house.

This is what I have so far..

 

[stretchhenry]

Here is the adapter I got. If yours is 5/16 it should work.

http://amzn.com/B00D96EWKQ

Thanks, I'll look out for that!

 

[mobiledynamics]

Why would you run the whips for the minisplits if you don't even have them mounted ;-)

Mitigate the weather till you are ready to connect IMO

 

[Jackfre]

I would suggest that you wall mount your condensing units. They stay cleaner and operate better in the heating mode because the condensate created in the defrost cycle can drain better. If you do put a pad on the ground at least put some riser blocks down too. Airtec is the place for the place for the brackets.

Do not put anything on the flare surface or threads on the flare fittings. You should be able to make the joint with metal to metal. If you have a leak, you have a bad flare. Re-do it. I've had guys try to make a leaker by putting sealant on the fittings and it NEVER works and it can create warranty issues.

 

[Jackfre]

You might want to consider stopping by a local Johnstone Supply. They will have everything there and their catalog, which will be on the counter, is enormous and comprehensive.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Poking around on YouTube, I found something very interesting. Instead of hardwiring the compressor unit to a J Box, the owner installed a weather resistant box with cover and a pigtail on the compressor. That way. during a power outage, the unit could very easily be run by a portable generator !

In fact, because it was a very small mini-split heat pump, the Sanyo compressor only required 120V and the owner demonstrated it running on a Honda EU2000 ! He claimed there was still enough power for some lights, a TV and computer and networking equipment. You would probably need a second unit or an EU3000 if you wanted for run a refrigerator.

 

[jonathan75]

You might want to consider stopping by a local Johnstone Supply. They will have everything there and their catalog, which will be on the counter, is enormous and comprehensive.

I have had better luck and prices at United Refrigeration. At least in my area they are easier to work with then Johnstone Supply.

 

[jonathan75]

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for your install... This is my shopping list so far

http://amzn.com/w/1ZAW4F4CY0I0F

I was originally thinking about getting a HVAC guy to test and evac, but after looking at RKA's post (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127401) and very complete write up, I'm concerned that the tech will not spend the time to pull a good vacuum. Also I'm planning on installing another single and eventually (if I get bold enough) a multi mini-split for the other side of the house.

This is what I have so far..

I noticed the torque wrench kit. It does not seem many here on GJ are a fan of torquing but I will do that too. From what I have seen so far they seem to be SAE flare nuts but the torque kit is metric. The supply house was SAE and the company I ordered from said they are SAE.

 

[Slednut]

I just did an install of a dual Mitsubishi, I installed all the line sets, wiring and drains and paid a guy $100 to test and evacuate the system. The compressor was pre-charged.

BTW, when the guy evacuated he put the pump on in the AM and came back hours later so he wasn't standing around through the process.

 

[mobiledynamics]

Slednut $100.

All I can is WOW. I'm thinking $200 minimum out here just to even have a conversation with a HVAC.

 

[jad3675]

I used this YJ flaring tool on my install #60295). It has a clutch, so it's damn near impossible to do a bad flare.

http://i21.geccdn.net/site/images/n-picgroup/RIT_60295.jpg

Northways machinery (http://www.northwaysmachinery.com/) has great prices on manifolds, pumps and other odds-n-ends.

Buy a decent micron gauge, don't rely on the vacuum gauge in the manifold set.

The HF 2 stage vacuum pump is decent - don't get the single stage one, it *****. And not in a good way.

John

 

[jonathan75]

Actually you may need this slightly larger kit for your install.

Yellow Jacket 60652 Torque Wrench, Universal 8-Head Kit
http://amzn.com/B00IA2J4E8

If yours is like the flare nuts I picked up at the supply house you will need the 21mm which the kit in your Wish List does not have.

HighSeer.com told me wrong and their nuts are strange sizes for mine. But the HVAC supply house nuts fit much better.

Pioneer Line Kit Flare Nuts
3/8 Line = 22mm or 7/8" (Sloppy fit, 22mm slightly better fit over 7/8")
5/8 Line = 27mm or 1 1/16" (Okay fit but not perfect)

HVAC Supply House Flare Nuts
3/8 Line = 21mm or 13/16" (Very snug and perfect fit)
5/8 Line = 27mm or 1 1/16" (Very snug and perfect fit)

 

[Slednut]

Slednut $100.

All I can is WOW. I'm thinking $200 minimum out here just to even have a conversation with a HVAC.

The guy lives real close to my house, he fixed one of my friends furnace one night and didn't charge him a thing. My friend finally forced the guy to take some money.

 

[tmcdonal]

While I never want to begrudge another the opportunity to pick up some new tools, I just installed Friedrich's DIY option - Breeze series with pre-charged lines. Main downside is you have a static 25' cable/line you have to route somehow. However, fairly easy install despite a few hiccups. Full write up here:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=247485

-Tom

 

[jonathan75]

I like Yellow Jacket's videos. It shows how to use the flaring tool you will get.

http://yellowjacketuniversity.com/videos/r-410a-mini-splits-flaring/

General Tubing Instructions

http://yellowjacketuniversity.com/videos/effective-tubing-tools-techniques/

And here is a video on how to use Nylog.

 

[sevenzeronova]

I just did an install of a dual Mitsubishi, I installed all the line sets, wiring and drains and paid a guy $100 to test and evacuate the system. The compressor was pre-charged.

BTW, when the guy evacuated he put the pump on in the AM and came back hours later so he wasn't standing around through the process.

Did he use a micron gauge? I hope.
Triple evacuation is the correct way and the fastest. Few more steps but speeds it immensely. About an hour give or take to 400 microns.

 

[stretchhenry]

Great video on the Nylog, looks like the blue synthetic is best for R410.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[smokey0810]

Most of the places I called to have my system evac'd either wanted an arm and a leg to vac it out, or wouldn't touch it because they didn't install the system. I would call around to friends, see who might do some side-work.

 

[stretchhenry]

You might want to consider stopping by a local Johnstone Supply. They will have everything there and their catalog, which will be on the counter, is enormous and comprehensive.

Yes, they are stocked with everything you could ask for, and prices are competitive.
Unfortunately they don't supply LG systems, so I ordered my mini-split from GODUCTLESS.COM