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Tools from the old world

Roverbo

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Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Messages
289
Location
Denmark
Hi Roverbo.You do have a point when you talk about product design,and what you say about amateur vs proffesional.When i go to a local car dealership i take a peak in the employees tool cabinets,and well maybe im a snob when it comes to tools ( and some other things) and what they have is not to my standards......lots of what i consider as cheap brands,like Teng Tools.In norway the Teng Tools importer have done a great job on marketing the brand,and you can buy their tools many places......i do not think Teng Tools are anywhere near what you can call well designed,but still they sell good,because of marketing campaigns,and not that cheap either. What i forgot to say earlier when i bashed Stanley,was about the economic aspects of outsourcing parts of the manufacturing,i dont know how many lost their jobs at facom,but running a factory also benefits the surroundings of where the factory placed,that is even more important today when the economic situation around the world aint the best.So i rather buy products made in europe just for that reason......It would be interesting to see a price comparison between a set of combinatoin wrenches ranging from 8-24 mm.Facom 440 vs Stahlwille open box vs Gedore 7 series. Do the customer get cheaper tools when high quality brands move their production to low cost countries?

Nope, the custumer only gets a long nose...and the quality control of a known brand. My guess: One of the reasons why Europe has been an "easy victim" of Teng Tools etc. (which btw. are OK tools, but not up to Hazet, Stahlwille etc. IMHO) is the fact that the employer is the suppilier of tools in most european workshops, where in the US, you come to the job with your own box. So owning a Snappy or Matco cabinet defines your status as a serious craftsman. In Europe, you just show up with your hands and experience (and papers from the technical school).

I realize quoting and editing posts isnt my strongest side:) Anyway off to the Kamasa wrenches i do have a set of both the kamasa w-germany and kamasa japan sets. From what i think the W-Germany must be from the 80s.The japan made ones was sold during the 90s. Kamasa also sold a design almost the same as the japanese,but no coo marking.

That is strange, from the text on their web, Kamasa started as a swedish distributor of japanese tools...but it looks like the w-german came first? :headscrat

Someone is going to want help on their old 3 series, my 2003 needs tons of 18mm & 16mm. as well as pretty much every other size.

You mean a Land Rover series III? You´ll need metric, ½", 7/16", 9/16" and probably a biiig 52 mm (for the wheelhub). Most parts will be self-lubricating (oil-spill) :). Parts will be cheapest from the UK (Paddockspares).
 
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dutch79

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Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
251
Location
The Netherlands
If any of you guys were wondering: apparently it's used for those splined nuts like you find in adjustable coilovers
115_001.jpg

That's quite an interesting tool!
On page 993 we also had some examples of a similar tool.

By the way, I got myself a Hazet smartcase (856-1)! :bounce:

Pretty known to the most of you I guess, but here's a product picture:

 
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Champo

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Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
160
By the way, I got myself a Hazet smartcase! :bounce:

That looks like a great set, Ive got a Hazet 854 and use it nearly every day. It's fantastic and really handy having the 1/4" bits and spinner handle. I've had it for about a year and I don't know how I ever did my job without it! :thumbup:

 
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dutch79

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Oct 22, 2013
Messages
251
Location
The Netherlands
I hear that a set like the smartcase is often used by motorcycle drivers. Most of the sockets/bits are there and the case is very small and pretty light.
I might use it in my car as I don't drive a motor :3gears:

By the way: I would miss the torx-bits in the 854 as they are being used more and more (at least in Europe).
 
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bart1

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Dec 14, 2010
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Location
Alabama the Beautiful
The 856 is pretty nice. I have had a set for a couple years (actually just checked and it was 2011 when I picked it up). My only complaint is the bits will come out if you're not careful. The foam/rubber on the 854 sets are better for retention, but they are more expensive. The 856 is also more versatile and the rubber bottom is safer and easier to place on funny shaped or sensitive surfaces. Also they have 854 sets with torque bits in them.

Here is mine beside another very neat (tiny!) set from Wera.

null_zps94bbe5bc.jpg


Here is the SmartCase in action when I picked it up in Germany.

P1020281.jpg
 
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Champo

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Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
160
The torx bits would definitely come in handy, I usually use my set for disconnecting/disassembling electrical equipment (I'm an E/I tech) and there's been a few times I've had to borrow a set of torx screwdrivers from another tech (hazet torx drivers :thumbup:)

The rubber insert is really good though, I can hold the set upside down and shake it and none of the bits or sockets fall out. Just one of the extension bars :headscrat
 

aussieracer

Active member
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
38
Thanks for the advice guys, now am I stupid or do sidchrome make the same wrenches as the 440 but long and polished? Because if they are the same as the macs I'm having a set even if I have to order it form aus


Sent from the sticks

Sidchrome website has a 440 series listed as a new product.

No pics ... just descriptions,

... they are probably still grinding stanley or something off the shank - so they can put a sidchrome sticker on 'em .. :D

Link ... http://www.sidchrome.com.au/category/440spannersets

Yep - Sidchrome is just Facom 440 series rebadged like a lot of Sidchrome stuff these days. They are made in Taiwan. I like them, but the box end angle can make the spanner difficult to place sometimes, and the flat side of the box end promotes rounding of nuts a bit too easily. Still like them, but I'm presently adding a few Stahlwille 14 series to my collection.

IMG_7291copy.jpg
 

kel NZ

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Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
10
This is my Dowidat (pronounced Doo ve dart, at least so I was told many years ago) no.3 Witworth set. I have posted the AF set in another thread but thought I'd post this set here as we all love quality German ring spanners right. These are circa late 1950's. 8 spanners in total, they overlap as Whitworth tools do 1/8-3/16, 3/16-1/4, 1/4-5/16, 5/16-3/8, 3/8-7/16, 7/16-1/2, 1/2-9/16, (9/16-5/8 missing) 5/8x3/4. Theres some loss of chrome in places, really just the 1/2 and 3/16, but for the age and considering they sat unused in the bottom of a tool box for near on 25 years, I think they're in pretty good condition :)
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merbie

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Jul 23, 2014
Messages
936
Location
england
Yep - Sidchrome is just Facom 440 series rebadged like a lot of Sidchrome stuff these days. They are made in Taiwan. I like them, but the box end angle can make the spanner difficult to place sometimes, and the flat side of the box end promotes rounding of nuts a bit too easily. Still like them, but I'm presently adding a few Stahlwille 14 series to my collection.



IMG_7291copy.jpg


Aren't the sidchromes longer?


Sent from the sticks
 

Vidar Wulff

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Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
90
Location
Harstad,Norway
Roverbo:Nope, the custumer only gets a long nose...and the quality control of a known brand. My guess: One of the reasons why Europe has been an "easy victim" of Teng Tools etc. (which btw. are OK tools, but not up to Hazet, Stahlwille etc. IMHO) is the fact that the employer is the suppilier of tools in most european workshops, where in the US, you come to the job with your own box. So owning a Snappy or Matco cabinet defines your status as a serious craftsman. In Europe, you just show up with your hands and experience (and papers from the technical school). ...............I think you are right on this one,in norway this changed in the 90's the school system changed,and after 2 years in school you could start as an apprentice as a car mechanic,but the payment was just 20% of what a mechanic earned.I got a tool cabinet with tools from the shop.The "older guys" had their own tools and got a small tool fee from the shop.The other young guys also had tools owned by the company,i was shocked how much tools they lost,and every month the Wurth guy stopped by to sell tools,and a few days later a box of tools came.The older guys never lost their tools.Cheaper brands usually sell tool cabinets packed with tools cheap,and sell single tools quite expensive.A shop near where i work had a some cheap Felo rebranded screwdriver sets (ironside),priced at around 30euro,next to these sets they had Teng tools screwdrivers sold at 10-12euros for one screwdriver......For the last 7years i have worked in the steel industry,and we often have service guys from denmark,looks like they have their own tools,tool bags filled with german made Sandvik-belzer.Anyway i sent kamasa an email asking when the western germany wrenches are made.
 

merbie

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Jul 23, 2014
Messages
936
Location
england
Okay fellas I'm going to call my mac guy to get a price on the super torques if there really expensive then I'll get the facoms or import some sidchromes


Sent from the sticks
 
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Monte

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Dec 23, 2008
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okay the fellas, i know i ask many questions but pay day is here on Friday and i want/need a new set of metric spanners so i am not wasting your time!, and there will be a set in my box come monday. i'm torn between this facom set http://www.primetools.co.uk/product/102616 this stahlwhile set http://www.primetools.co.uk/product/102148 and this toptul set http://www.vantagetools.co.uk/wrench-sets/3403-toptul-gaat1603.html also im interested in the bahco set iv mentioned in a previous post. my concerns are are the facom 440s too short for automotive work? the stahlwhile set seems a little incomplete, is the toptul set as good as the facoms? and are they longer? and finally im concerned the bhahcos look a little cheap any info or recommendations would be greatly apprciated
cheers fellas merb

Stahlwille - same wrench design since 1955 .... can´t get any better...



<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/bRe7uRLAN00?list=UUB2KN8PLnR2EkEWZuksQYHg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is my Dowidat (pronounced Doo ve dart, at least so I was told many years ago) no.3 Witworth set. I have posted the AF set in another thread but thought I'd post this set here as we all love quality German ring spanners right. These are circa late 1950's. 8 spanners in total, they overlap as Whitworth tools do 1/8-3/16, 3/16-1/4, 1/4-5/16, 5/16-3/8, 3/8-7/16, 7/16-1/2, 1/2-9/16, (9/16-5/8 missing) 5/8x3/4. Theres some loss of chrome in places, really just the 1/2 and 3/16, but for the age and considering they sat unused in the bottom of a tool box for near on 25 years, I think they're in pretty good condition :)
IMG_4151.jpg
IMG_4152.jpg
IMG_4153.jpg
IMG_4154.jpg
very very nice wrenches !!
 

node105

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Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Messages
309
Location
Australia
This is my Dowidat (pronounced Doo ve dart, at least so I was told many years ago) no.3 Witworth set. I have posted the AF set in another thread but thought I'd post this set here as we all love quality German ring spanners right. These are circa late 1950's. 8 spanners in total, they overlap as Whitworth tools do 1/8-3/16, 3/16-1/4, 1/4-5/16, 5/16-3/8, 3/8-7/16, 7/16-1/2, 1/2-9/16, (9/16-5/8 missing) 5/8x3/4. Theres some loss of chrome in places, really just the 1/2 and 3/16, but for the age and considering they sat unused in the bottom of a tool box for near on 25 years, I think they're in pretty good condition :)


Those ring spanners have nicely formed shapes on the 'top' surfaces sections. Dowidat was not uncommon in Australia back in the 60's; 'dow-i-dat' in the local Oz vernacular :) There was some Gedore too, but mostly the then locally produced Sidchrome.
 

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node105

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Some more Deutsches Werkzeug Museum in Remscheid form visit in March this year. Once section is devoted to where it all started, primitive casting techniques and the earliest tools. Absolutely worth a visit if you ever get to Remscheid.
 

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node105

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Deutsches Werkzeug Museum in Remscheid
 

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node105

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Deutsches Werkzeug Museum in Remscheid
Torque spanners from Hazet, Stahlwille and Gedore
Screwdrivers and a device to let you test some different brands for the amount of torque they (and you) can apply
 

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merbie

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england
Stahlwille - same wrench design since 1955 .... can´t get any better...







<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/bRe7uRLAN00?list=UUB2KN8PLnR2EkEWZuksQYHg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>





very very nice wrenches !!


How much longer are the stahlwhilles compared to the facom 440s?


Sent from the sticks
 
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node105

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Stahlwille - same wrench design since 1955 .... can´t get any better...



<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/bRe7uRLAN00?list=UUB2KN8PLnR2EkEWZuksQYHg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


very very nice wrenches !!

And the current options. No more BSW ; BSW was common in Oz when I was a kid due to the strong British car presence at that time; Morris, MG, Jaguar, ( first car I ever bought was a Mk 7), Wosely, Triumph, Rover... Locally made Holden (GM) and Fords were AF; now both manufactures are closing local production, after 60 years or so.





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Alfajuj

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Nov 12, 2008
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373
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Taiwan
I have to chime in here:

Comparing Stahlwille to Facom is a fairly easy choice: A made in Germany tool vs. a made in Taiwan tool pretending to be french. Besides, I'm an old school kind of guy, so the Buck Rogers look of the Facoms doesn't do anything for me.

But Stahlwille vs. Hazet: that's harder. Owning sets of all types, I will try.

The Stahlwille 14 (long) vs. Hazet 600N (long) : Hazet wins. If you're working on a car with limited access, the 600N always seems to fit where the 14 won't. This is due to its larger offset. Working on other things, like motorcycles, it doesn't seem to be a problem.
but:
Stahlwille 13 (std. length) vs. the Hazet 603: The Stahlwille has the slight edge. The 13 seems to feel better to me.
 

BK13

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But Stahlwille vs. Hazet: that's harder. Owning sets of all types, I will try.

The Stahlwille 14 (long) vs. Hazet 600N (long) : Hazet wins. If you're working on a car with limited access, the 600N always seems to fit where the 14 won't. This is due to its larger offset. Working on other things, like motorcycles, it doesn't seem to be a problem.
but:
Stahlwille 13 (std. length) vs. the Hazet 603: The Stahlwille has the slight edge. The 13 seems to feel better to me.

Thank you sir. I'm probably going to be picking up some Euro combo wrenches fairly soon, and am leaning pretty hard in the direction of Hazet 600N and/or 603...
 

cosmik binturong

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over 10mm i'll almost always reach for them openbox 13 wrenches over anything else except for 32mm where the good old Hazet 600 gets out first and last. :D

under 10mm it depends on what i work on. or maybe it's 'cause i got way too much small wrenches lying around. :lol:
 

node105

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more Deutsches Werkzeug Museum in Remscheid

Check out that date on the plane - 1746

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node105

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Scored this today, gratis. A John Heine screw press model 181A, 2 ton. Made in Australia , probably 1950's or earlier. Found a brochure on their site. At 63 Kg it was a beast to carry from the car and lift onto the bench.

Has been dropped it looks like, so will need to repair, or more likely fabricate a new main spindle

John Heine (est 1886) is still in business

http://johnheine.com


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north

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Nice score node. Hard to beat gratis. Yer need a box of spinach for that spindle though.
 

Johannes_S

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Aug 11, 2014
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Belgium
Deutsches Werkzeug Museum in Remscheid
Torque spanners from Hazet, Stahlwille and Gedore
Screwdrivers and a device to let you test some different brands for the amount of torque they (and you) can apply

Looks like an interesting trip! Which screwdriver felt best to you?



Does anyone know how old this Metabo is? It survived for 3 generations and I still use it if I need to drill in heavy steel, because it turns nice and slow. (It used to have a chest plate, but that's gone)
zVsQlY.jpg

mogM0x.jpg
 

Roverbo

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Oct 25, 2012
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Denmark
Given the choice, Monte, would you choose Stahlwille over Hazet?

Hehe...that´s a tough one. If I was given that question, i would try to get around it by saying you can´t compare pears to bananas...:willy_nil
But a hint is, that i always grap my Hazet 600N´s first. But since i don´t have a complete set, Stahlwilles and Gedore gives a helping hand. :)
I´m not the "complete set" type of guy...

BTW - anyone noticed - we´re on page # 1000 ?
 

cosmik binturong

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BTW - anyone noticed - we´re on page # 1000 ?

i'm only on page 500 'cause i like my 40 posts per page. :)


anyway, should we celebrate? :beer:







ps. and should we thnak Monte for bankrupting us all by sending a few 13mm combo wrenches in his general direction? :pimpflash
 
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Monte

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Welcome on page 1000 ! :thumbup:



Deutsches Werkzeug Museum in Remscheid
Torque spanners from Hazet, Stahlwille and Gedore
Screwdrivers and a device to let you test some different brands for the amount of torque they (and you) can apply
thanks for the pics ! again !!:) The screwdriver test stand is cool....if i ever go there i take some drivers with me to test them :)
But it seems you photographed every detail there so it´s not neccessary anymore:) ;)

Given the choice, Monte, would you choose Stahlwille over Hazet?
choose both :D

How much are the 600ns?
Sent from the sticks
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb...eld-keywords=hazet+600n&rh=i:aps,k:hazet+600n
Does anyone know how old this Metabo is? It survived for 3 generations and I still use it if I need to drill in heavy steel, because it turns nice and slow. (It used to have a chest plate, but that's gone)
do you can read the type number ?












NOS Bosch jigsaw blades
 

Minimal Oasis

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Aug 7, 2014
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18 km from Venice, Italy
Wilkommen Massimiliano! :beer:

you'll find, like most of us, that you do not have enough german tools once under the ThreadMeister spell, you'll forget even Pastorino existed and, eventually, you'll find Salvation in neutral Swiss-made tool hoarding. :evil:

Thank You, Cosmik!
To this day, my only neutral Swiss-made tool is a PB screwdriver (yellow handle, pre-PB Swiss) :)

I raise the biddings with a small bunch of pliers (and not one is from Deutschland :bounce:).
- Two little Usag in full chrome - flat nose and frontal wire cutter. NOS from the '70s, still very nice after 6-7 years of use.
- A big and strong Bahco made in Sweden and an odd-shaped Pastorino. What should I do? I like them both...

Happy mid-August holiday!
 

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cosmik binturong

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Does anyone know how old this Metabo is? It survived for 3 generations and I still use it if I need to drill in heavy steel, because it turns nice and slow. (It used to have a chest plate, but that's gone)
zVsQlY.jpg

that's exactly what i need for the Silex column... :thumbup:
thnaks for the heads -up, will try to find one like that now.


Thank You, Cosmik!
To this day, my only neutral Swiss-made tool is a PB screwdriver (yellow handle, pre-PB Swiss) :)

attachment.php

that's a good start. got the same one, a modified PH1 for JIS-screws compatibility... :D


I raise the biddings with a small bunch of pliers (and not one is from Deutschland :bounce:).
- Two little Usag in full chrome - flat nose and frontal wire cutter. NOS from the '70s, still very nice after 6-7 years of use.
- A big and strong Bahco made in Sweden and an odd-shaped Pastorino. What should I do? I like them both...
keep'em all! what a question... :lol_hitti

yummy USAG duckbill, reminds me of the Peugeot pliers now residing in sunny Sweden. very nice. :thumbup:


Happy mid-August holiday!
to you too! :beer:
 
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