Tools from the old world

[Dave455]

It's a very serious piece of kit! I've wanted it for a while and Amazon had one in stock cheaper than anywhere else so i went for it. Much nicer now too with no movement of the bit insert.

Nice Koken bit. I do love their bit sockets, so nicely made and finished.

I think i'm overrun with T60 bits now, i should probably stop buying them.

You can’t have too many Torx bits, although one reason I like the KoKen is that they will sell you just the insert if you twist it. Stahlwille won’t!

I’ve got a few of the gold TiN coated Hazet’s too, but haven’t yet abused them enough to know how well they hold up!

I was tempted to try a Wera, they’re quite reasonably priced, and the 1/4” drive bits that I have seem decent, but again, I’ve never abused them like the Stahlwille or KoKen.

It’s generally brake disc screws that cause me to twist these though (there’s quite a “sin bin” above my bench) so a dedicated brake disc tool seems like a great idea!

 

[Moose-LandTran]

You can’t have too many Torx bits, although one reason I like the KoKen is that they will sell you just the insert if you twist it. Stahlwille won’t!

That's generally my train of thought too, but this is the result of it:



I've used my Stahlwille bit sockets a lot and not had any issues. Not too worried about replacement bits. To be honest, most of the bit sockets are £10-15 so not expensive to replace.

I’ve got a few of the gold TiN coated Hazet’s too, but haven’t yet abused them enough to know how well they hold up!

This is my most-used TiN Hazet bit socket:



Barely any wear on it, its held up great. Most of my TiN Hazet bits are new and haven't been used much. I did have a grey Hazet T50 bit shear the tip on its first use, an odd fluke i think.

I was tempted to try a Wera, they’re quite reasonably priced, and the 1/4” drive bits that I have seem decent, but again, I’ve never abused them like the Stahlwille or KoKen.

Can't say i've used them but most Wera stuff is decent. I have one of their torque wrenches and it's overpriced, i wouldn't buy another.

Mostly for (chrome) sockets i just stick to Koken, Hazet and Stahlwille now. Best quality and value.

It’s generally brake disc screws that cause me to twist these though (there’s quite a “sin bin” above my bench) so a dedicated brake disc tool seems like a great idea!

The T30 retaining screws? I use Koken and the gold Snap-on heavy duty bits. Not broken one yet or had an issue. Bought this cute little T30 recently:

 

[Dave455]

That's generally my train of thought too, but this is the result of it:



I've used my Stahlwille bit sockets a lot and not had any issues. Not too worried about replacement bits. To be honest, most of the bit sockets are £10-15 so not expensive to replace.



This is my most-used TiN Hazet bit socket:



Barely any wear on it, its held up great. Most of my TiN Hazet bits are new and haven't been used much. I did have a grey Hazet T50 bit shear the tip on its first use, an odd fluke i think.



Can't say i've used them but most Wera stuff is decent. I have one of their torque wrenches and it's overpriced, i wouldn't buy another.

Mostly for (chrome) sockets i just stick to Koken, Hazet and Stahlwille now. Best quality and value.



The T30 retaining screws? I use Koken and the gold Snap-on heavy duty bits. Not broken one yet or had an issue. Bought this cute little T30 recently:

That’s a seriously impressive collection! (Can I ask what the one in the middle with the short tip and long blade is though?)

I shall, in future, defer to you on all matters of T60 durability!

I’m generally happy with Stahlwille too. I have quite a bit, though with these Torx (and hex) bits I tended to acquire them as needed, so have quite a variety of makes.

Glad to see the Hazet has worn well. They look and feel to be quality, but I’ve not used mine as much as the Stahlwille or KoKen.

Believe it or not, I’ve twisted Torx bits up to about T55 I think (Mini brake discs).

 

[Moose-LandTran]

That’s a seriously impressive collection! (Can I ask what the one in the middle with the short tip and long blade is though?)

I shall, in future, defer to you on all matters of T60 durability!

I’m generally happy with Stahlwille too. I have quite a bit, though with these Torx (and hex) bits I tended to acquire them as needed, so have quite a variety of makes.

Glad to see the Hazet has worn well. They look and feel to be quality, but I’ve not used mine as much as the Stahlwille or KoKen.

Believe it or not, I’ve twisted Torx bits up to about T55 I think (Mini brake discs).

Do you mean this one with the necked-down shaft?



It's for flywheel bolts on BMWs and Minis where the bolts are offset to their access holes, so a normal bit socket won't fit.



I've bought a lot more Hazet recently and look forward to using them more. I've mostly used Snap-on, then Stahlwille and Koken too and they've all been good. Stahlwille's always been good value with a nice finish and durability, Koken the same but a more aethetic finish. (I really like Stahlwille's industrial/utilitarian approach.)

Hazet's becoming more easily available now. When i started buying tools TBS Aachen was the only place i could easily get them. Stahlwille and Koken are still cheaper and more obtainable though.

I've bought a lot as needed too, so many of my "sets" are a mix of brands. I quite like it that way.

 

[Dave455]

Do you mean this one with the necked-down shaft?



It's for flywheel bolts on BMWs and Minis where the bolts are offset to their access holes, so a normal bit socket won't fit.



I've bought a lot more Hazet recently and look forward to using them more. I've mostly used Snap-on, then Stahlwille and Koken too and they've all been good. Stahlwille's always been good value with a nice finish and durability, Koken the same but a more aethetic finish. (I really like Stahlwille's industrial/utilitarian approach.)

Hazet's becoming more easily available now. When i started buying tools TBS Aachen was the only place i could easily get them. Stahlwille and Koken are still cheaper and more obtainable though.

I've bought a lot as needed too, so many of my "sets" are a mix of brands. I quite like it that way.

That’s the one! Thanks. I thought I recognised it.

Yes, I started buying Stahlwille (and a bit of Snap On) when Britool started going downhill. No regret’s, it’s been good. I like the smooth shape of the extensions when I’m working around hoses and cables. The finish is very durable.

Hazet have historically been a little bit harder to source than some others. A dealer I used to use said Stahlwille were easy to deal with, whereas Hazet were a bit erratic. I think I slightly prefer Hazet now. The quality of the finish is just a bit nicer, but in use there’s not much to choose.

I tend to work with metric, A/F and Whitworth, so I like to use different makes of tools to tell them apart quickly.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Yes, I started buying Stahlwille (and a bit of Snap On) when Britool started going downhill. No regret’s, it’s been good. I like the smooth shape of the extensions when I’m working around hoses and cables. The finish is very durable.

When i started working (about 15 years ago) i was mostly buying Draper Expert, then Snap-on, except for spanners which were Elora. A few years later i bought a few random Stahlwille bits here and there. Recently i've bought more Stahlwille, replacing some Snap-on items like hex bit sockets.

Their extensions are very nicely made. As are their adapters and universal joints. I've been buying 12-point sockets from them too as their tolerance/fit is second to none. I don't have much Britool. A handful of older spanners, not sure what else.

Hazet have historically been a little bit harder to source than some others. A dealer I used to use said Stahlwille were easy to deal with, whereas Hazet were a bit erratic. I think I slightly prefer Hazet now. The quality of the finish is just a bit nicer, but in use there’s not much to choose.

When i started buying tools i was very aware of Hazet but they just weren't easily available and at that time were very expensive. Most of Stahlwille's range was quite easy to get and well-priced as they still are now. Prime Tools and Heamar stock almost all of their range and both have been good suppliers to deal with.

Stahlwille's magnets and pick-up tools are really good too!

Hazet's finish is nicer, Stahlwille's is a bit more "functional" but i do really like it.

I can't fault them though. Never been disappointed with any.

I tend to work with metric, A/F and Whitworth, so I like to use different makes of tools to tell them apart quickly.

All of mine's metric. But having differing brands does help in picking out certain sizes at a glance.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Stahlwille breaker bar arrived today:



The usual Stahlwille quality and finish:




Had a spare industrial finish Stahlwille 27mm socket. Spun it in some Scotchbrite and its left this really nice grey textured finish:

 

[Tepid87]

Mid-2000s Beta Italy 3 drawer tool box.
I believe made in 2006.

Nice one, NOS? This the C22 O. Would look great on a C24 roller cab.

 

[CGarage]

Nice one, NOS? This the C22 O. Would look great on a C24 roller cab.

Lightly used, sat in an air conditioned garage.
Find me a C24 in black / orange / grey and I will buy it.
Also need a USAG roll cart to complete the collection.

 

[Tepid87]

Lightly used, sat in an air conditioned garage.
Find me a C24 in black / orange / grey and I will buy it.
Also need a USAG roll cart to complete the collection.

Found one! In my garage

 

[CGarage]

Found one! In my garage

Looks great. Let me know when you want to sell it, my top box is lonely

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Dumb question time.

I've idly wondered about this down on the vintage board before with no reply and now it's come up again, so I'll ask here properly...

// What is the purpose/meaning of the fractional marking that shows up on the shanks of vintage adjustable wrenches made in Germany as imports to the UK and US just before the OAL marking in a Fraction x OAL" format? //

Attached bellow is a 1/4 x 4" adjustable wrench made in West Germany and branded MILTEX, for example. I do not normally collect vintage European adjustable wrenches and only picked this one up at a flea market because it's a 4-incher, which I do like to collect. As you would expect, it opens much wider than a 1/4", so it doesn't seem to be related to jaw capacity. There is no box end wrench broaching inside the hanging hole, so it can't be referring to that opening. The width or thickness of the jaws is about 1/4", but I have seen photos of vintage Made in Germany adjustable wrenches marked 3/8 x 8" and 5/8 x 10", and even without having them in hand to measure, I can know that the jaws are not 3/8" and 5/8" thick, which would be monstrously large.

I have the sinking feeling I must be missing something that should be as intuitively plain as the immeasurably long nose on my face, but I can't figure it out by deduction.

 

[silkman]

When i started working (about 15 years ago) i was mostly buying Draper Expert, then Snap-on, except for spanners which were Elora. A few years later i bought a few random Stahlwille bits here and there. Recently i've bought more Stahlwille, replacing some Snap-on items like hex bit sockets.

Their extensions are very nicely made. As are their adapters and universal joints. I've been buying 12-point sockets from them too as their tolerance/fit is second to none. I don't have much Britool. A handful of older spanners, not sure what else.



When i started buying tools i was very aware of Hazet but they just weren't easily available and at that time were very expensive. Most of Stahlwille's range was quite easy to get and well-priced as they still are now. Prime Tools and Heamar stock almost all of their range and both have been good suppliers to deal with.

Stahlwille's magnets and pick-up tools are really good too!

Hazet's finish is nicer, Stahlwille's is a bit more "functional" but i do really like it.

I can't fault them though. Never been disappointed with any.



All of mine's metric. But having differing brands does help in picking out certain sizes at a glance.

How come you find Stahlwille's cheap? Their sockets sets are at least double than Hazet (example in tbs).

There is no Stahlwille dealer here and the only stahlwille tools I have is a set of #14 combination wrenches in a case, which are of course excellent. I got these from Amazon, quite cheaper than the equivalent Hazet and I also love the stahlwille case which I really needed.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

How come you find Stahlwille's cheap? Their sockets sets are at least double than Hazet (example in tbs).

There is no Stahlwille dealer here and the only stahlwille tools I have is a set of #14 combination wrenches in a case, which are of course excellent. I got these from Amazon, quite cheaper than the equivalent Hazet and I also love the stahlwille case which I really needed.

Stahlwille's easy to get here, numerous dealers with good stock. Mostly i buy individual sockets, torx/hex/xzn bit sockets of theirs and they're cheaper than Hazet is here (Hazet's not very common here, i think only Amazon really stocks them here.) And on par or maybe a little cheaper than Koken.

A lot of my tools are Snap-on, so by comparasin Stahlwille is about ⅓ of the price or less.

Obviously they're not cheap compared to Draper, Sealey, Gearwrench or other similar brands, but for high quality German tools i find them to be pretty cheap.

While not identical, here's a close comparasin between two sets where Stahlwille is quite a bit cheaper:

Hazet 986/9N Schraubendreher-Einsatz-Satz, 1/2"

Hazet 986/9N Schraubendreher-Einsatz-Satz, 1/2"HAZET Schraubendreher-Steckschlüsseleinsatz-Satz 986/9N Merkmale: <li...

www.tbs-aachen.de

Stahlwille 54/10 KN Satz INHEX-Einsätze 1/2"

Stahlwille 54/10 KN Satz INHEX-Einsätze 1/2"Stahlwille 96031508 tze-Garnitur 1/2&quotStahlwille-Code: 96031508...

www.tbs-aachen.de

€50 difference.

 

[four.cycle]

"... I must be missing something ..."

Quarter of an inch thick, maybe?

Sorry, but that just doesn't make sense.

 

[silkman]

A lot of my tools are Snap-on, so by comparasin Stahlwille is about ⅓ of the price or less.

Snap on prices are pointless, most pro guys here work with used up Toptul. They will use Facom at best.

Hazet and Stahlwille are excellent, I compare them to Porsche and BMW; Gedore on the other hand is Vauxhall

 

[mbunimog]

This is my 65 year old 6 inch adjustable wrench that I have used almost daily for 65https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachments/1639411595872-png.1570408/

 

[mbunimog]

Here is the picture

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Snap on prices are pointless, most pro guys here work with used up Toptul. They will use Facom at best.

Hazet and Stahlwille are excellent, I compare them to Porsche and BMW; Gedore on the other hand is Vauxhall

Snap-on's huge here for mechanics. Stahlwille is mostly used in industrial settings, Hazet has a very small (insignificant) market share due to lack of dealers. I like Hazet but unless it's stocked by Amazon or something specialized they're not a brand i buy from often, just due to lack of availability. It's a shame, because i really like their tools.

I've never seen Toptul here, don't know if anyone stocks them. I don't own any Gedore tools but i have a few from Klann (owned by Gedore) which are excellent.

 

[M635_Guy]

Do you mean this one with the necked-down shaft?



It's for flywheel bolts on BMWs and Minis where the bolts are offset to their access holes, so a normal bit socket won't fit.

Do you happen to have a part number for that? Sounds like it might be very handy one of these days...

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Do you happen to have a part number for that? Sounds like it might be very handy one of these days...

Yes, 114180 is the number stamped on it.



I know a few aftermarket companies sell them too, some are just modified T60s with the shank turned down.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Quarter of an inch thick, maybe?

Sorry, but that just doesn't make sense.

Nope. It doesn't. No part of this 1/4 x 4" marked adjustable measures 1/4" anywhere that matters. That I can think of. The maximum capacity is 1/2". The jaws are 3/16" wide at the nose. The ridged paddle handle is about an 1/8" thick. Not that I can think of any reason why any user would care how wide the handle is, but it tapers from a 7/16" behind the head to 5/8" at the hanging hole. Can I find a place on the wedge-shaped head that measures 1/4"? Yeah, if I wanted to, by sliding it back and forth until I find a place it's 1/4" thick, but that's not at its thickest point, and also not at its thinnest, both of which strain for relevance anyway.

Don has two Dunlap adjustables, also made in Germany. One is marked 3/8 x 6", and the other is marked 5/8 by 10". Again, I don't have them in hand, and he doesn't either, by the way, because he's at the cabin until October, but if you handle any 6" or 10" adjustable, you know there's no way they could be 3/8" or 5/8" thick at the jaws or anywhere else it would have a significance.

From what I can tell, this marking style was a very popular German convention on export adjustables in the 40's and 50's, but I can't figure it out to save my life. And nobody but you or I seems the least bit fazed by its befuddling incomprehensibility!

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Nope. It doesn't. No part of this 1/4 x 4" marked adjustable measures 1/4" anywhere that matters. That I can think of. The maximum capacity is 1/2".

¼" Whitworth.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

¼" Whitworth.

So you're suggesting these German mfgrs were marking the adjustable crescent-type wrenches they were making for export with the maximum capacity of the jaws expressed in Whitworth standard bolt size? Hmm. That is an interesting possibility. A 1/4"W bolt would have an A.F. dia. of 0.525 in decimal inches and that milled opening was often expressed as 9/16" for a wrench or spanner in catalog charts. And I guess it makes sense. Yeah, the wrench could be used for smaller bolts, but I guess you'd want to know the largest. It's possible. I said earlier that the max capacity was 1/2" because I was going through all the dimensions rather coarsely since they were so far off of 1/4", but it is 9/16" more precisely.

I'd love to see other examples to prove that out further. Or wait for Don to report the jaw max capacities of his 3/8 x 6" and 5/8 x 10" Made in Germany Dunlap adjustables. If they are 3/4" and 1-1/8" respectively, you may have cracked it.

EDIT:

Never mind. I take back that maybe. You nailed it. On the premise that the optimal mechanical parameters of crescent-type adjustables were pretty much standardized and appropriated by mfgrs across the world, I just measured the max capacities of a very healthy number and variety of 6" and 10" 1940's vintage crescent-type adjustables I own, and they are all pretty much spot on for 3/4" (3/8W!) and 1-1/8" (5/8W!).

Thanks. And bravo! That question has been periodically nagging at me whenever it came up.

 

[Vicks]

Some recently purchased goodies..

Knipex pincers 210mm for pulling nails from scrap wood. So far I’ve been using the hammer claw but sometimes the thick edge of the hammer claw doesn’t help. I really wanted to buy the version with offset jaws but couldn’t find them sold/delivered here.


Stubby screw driver to use with different bits. I have been using a no name brand version so far and thought it will be nice to have this one to go with rest of the nicer screw driver sets I have from Wera.



This file card is an older buy from more than a year ago and has served me very well to clean rasp files especially after using them on wood.

 

[Farmer J.]

So you're suggesting these German mfgrs were marking the adjustable crescent-type wrenches they were making for export with the maximum capacity of the jaws expressed in Whitworth standard bolt size? Hmm. That is an interesting possibility. A 1/4"W bolt would have an A.F. dia. of 0.525 in decimal inches and that milled opening was often expressed as 9/16" for a wrench or spanner in catalog charts. And I guess it makes sense. Yeah, the wrench could be used for smaller bolts, but I guess you'd want to know the largest. It's possible. I said earlier that the max capacity was 1/2" because I was going through all the dimensions rather coarsely since they were so far off of 1/4", but it is 9/16" more precisely.

I'd love to see other examples to prove that out further. Or wait for Don to report the jaw max capacities of his 3/8 x 6" and 5/8 x 10" Made in Germany Dunlap adjustables. If they are 3/4" and 1-1/8" respectively, you may have cracked it.

EDIT:

Never mind. I take back that maybe. You nailed it. On the premise that the optimal mechanical parameters of crescent-type adjustables were pretty much standardized and appropriated by mfgrs across the world, I just measured the max capacities of a very healthy number and variety of 6" and 10" 1940's vintage crescent-type adjustables I own, and they are all pretty much spot on for 3/4" (3/8W!) and 1-1/8" (5/8W!).

Thanks. And bravo! That question has been periodically nagging at me whenever it came up.

Yes, I always understood it's what Moose Land said. The maximum capacity the adjustable jaws should be used for, expressed in a Whitworth size. For some reason I missed your earlier posts on the subject!

 

[garfieldzzz]

Latest delivery



PB swiss awl, noting really to say here
Kit of cheap keyhole files.
„Precision“ files from Vallorbe Swiss to have finer ones on hand for finish work, flat and knive shape.
Hand deburring countersink, always handy..
Some Noga deburrs made in Israel
Knipex spring clip pliers
Steel wire cup brush in the box.

Im well impressed by the vallorbe files, up to now I only had their chainsaw file.

 

[1320]

...
Hand deburring countersink, always handy..
...

Any info on this?

 

[garfieldzzz]

Garant countersink with PBSwiss handle (only handle is swiss made) PN 15040016,5 its available in three different sizes or as a handle for countersinks with 3 flats on the shaft.
Alternative is a countersink insert for the Noga deburring tool. They have one with a single cutting-edge and you use it like a crank.

handy near the drill press

 

[HenryAZ]

Any info on this?

I prefer the Shaviv deburring stuff, for both inside and outside deburring. They are also made in Israel, and I consider them the gold standard. I wonder if Noga is related to or produced by Shaviv.

 

[garfieldzzz]

The Shaviv and the Noga look quite identical to me so I guess its the same.
The Noga one cost me 3x so I stick with the one I have.
At work we have both.

 

[Jack_K]

a NOS Minimax branded Felo (old enough to say W.Germany)

 

[Leviton]

I found a wrench with a logo I am trying to identify. It looks like it is an S inside a D, or an 8 inside a D.

I posted it in the Vintage Tools forum and found a photo of what might be a wrench with a similar logo on e-bay. That e-bay wrench had British sizing so it seems possible these are not a U.S. made wrenches.

I am posting here in the hope that someone here might recognize this logo or have some ideas?

The top two photos are my wrench. The openings are roughly 13/16" and 3/4" (or 21mm and 19mm).

 

[silkman]

Some Noga deburrs made in Israel

Noga deburring tools are top notch. Some people have bought them from aliexpress in good prices...

 

[kreisler]

but if you didn't already buy the centrofix, i'd wait a bit (Q2 2021 i've heard) for this to come out:



pb swiss insider 3 with rolgear "ratcheting" (smooth roller-bearing) mechanism and the wiha centrofix holder. with hex bolster.

Is this real?

It was never released afaik. I'd be interested at 30 bucks.

 

[pizza]

Is this real?

It was never released afaik. I'd be interested at 30 bucks.

nah i just photoshopped that as a dumb joke (more like a dream on my part). sorry.

i would also be interested at 30 bucks. but realistically i'd think it would have to cost at least as much as an insider3 which is >$80.

 

[kreisler]

nah i just photoshopped

hehe you had me there!
oki, knowing that such a PBST product doesn't exist, i'll go ahead and pull the trigger (soon) on the wiha centrofix, for under 20€ shipped. just need to find an amzn coupon ..
Thanks for the clarification!
Last night i dreamed of swimming in a lil lake (next to the sea) where i had a flirtatious chit chat with a blonde geman girl tourist(?) in espanish who didn't figure out my geman accent lol then the lake turned into an open-air pool and i kept swimming lanes at fast speed …

Was a nice dream. Yours was nice too tho.

 

[designer485]

How about a Dowidat 1993r Ratchet. It is currently locked up and very dirty, but I think it will clean up nicely.

Can anyone date this ratchet?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I also need some vintage Germanic help.

Found these antique cobbler pliers this morning (see Pics 1, 2, & 3). They look like pliers I am finding on line made by Wirminghaus & Funcke, but they don't have the lion/W&F logo, they have what looks like an imperial eagle coat of arms stamp. Are they W&F and federal/martial? Or were these a common style and that's a mfgr's logo?

Also found a pair of PEER No. 37-001-1/2 pliers (see Pics 4, 5, 6,& 7). Question on those goes to use. With the fine tips and the volute spring for external force, they look like they want to function like snap ring spreaders. Am I right? I can't find much on Peer. Are they still in business? These are "West Germany" marked, but I wish I could narrow that 1949-1989 span down.

 

[Outahere]

I bought this Wera Hex-Plus set at Amazon for $34 +tax. Made in Czech Republic.