Tools from the old world

[Outahere]

A 10-pak of Weiler 3" cutting disks, and a mandrel, from Amazon-US. Made in Slovenia.

 

[upgrading]

Schweizer magnifier

Magnificent !

 

[F-22]

A 10-pak of Weiler 3" cutting disks, and a mandrel, from Amazon-US. Made in Slovenia.

Weiler bought a Slovene/Austrian company Swaty Comet. It's an old company, making grinding stones since the 19th century. However, I had some business with them at work, and I avoid their products. I guess the mass produced stuff must be fine, but we ordered some one-off grinding and cutting wheels for some machines and the quality was horrendous. We required a 15 degree edge on the wheel, and ordered 20 of them - they supplied one with the 15 degree edge, the rest were totally random from between 10 to 20 degrees, and even different angles on both sides of the same wheel. Ridiculous, you can't do business like that...

 

[dukefx]

Unior 1/2" etorx set

 

[snowblindb]

Any recomendations for ”all-in-one” socket sets from good manufacturers? I have one Teng Tools set in my car and it’s been nice but now I need another one for my new car.
So far I have just found a set from Würth that looks decent and it’s maybe/mainly made in EU.

 

[Kasal]

mistake

 

[Kasal]

¿Alguna recomendación para juegos de dados "todo en uno" de buenos fabricantes? Tengo un juego de herramientas Teng en mi automóvil y ha sido agradable, pero ahora necesito otro para mi automóvil nuevo.
Hasta ahora, acabo de encontrar un conjunto de Würth que parece decente y quizás/principalmente está hecho en la UE.

Proxxon 23650

 

[Dave455]

Any recomendations for ”all-in-one” socket sets from good manufacturers? I have one Teng Tools set in my car and it’s been nice but now I need another one for my new car.
So far I have just found a set from Würth that looks decent and it’s maybe/mainly made in EU.

The Wurth set shown is a step up from the Teng, but then just about anything would be.

I very much doubt that anything in the Wurth set is made in Europe. I believe the ratchets might have been at one point (by Usag in Italy) but now I think everything is from Taiwan. The quality is perfectly acceptable, much better than the Taiwan tools of some years back, but not European.

If you can get a deal or a discount, the Wurth can be good value.

I would probably consider the Hazet (953 SPC) as the tools are better quality, and made in Germany. These sets (or the version with the new HiPer ratchets) are usually on a factory promotion from Hazet, so represent excellent value.


Stahlwille also make “combination” sets, in fact quite a selection, but they are seldom on any sort of promotion.


On thing to consider with these sets, and taking the Wurth set as an example, it goes up to I think a 32mm socket. There is NO WAY you are going to shift a 32mm nut, tightened to the recommended torque, with the little ratchet handle supplied. You probably would struggle with a 19mm wheel bolt. So the utility of the set is very limited unless you add some bits.

Personally, I carry a plastic tool case on my vehicle (the Keter one shown below) and fill it with just the tools I need. Works out quite reasonable in price, and there’s room for some repair materials too.

 

[tamaraw]

Just rebuilt this French Mabo Nivomètre I found at a thrift store. Metal case with integrated square, bubble level, flip-out holding tack, and a window.

I will admit re-assembly was a bit more of a pain than I bargained for but now it works smoothly without screeching or binding.

 

[Monte]

Magnificent !

Reilang brush oiler

 

[F-22]

The Wurth set shown is a step up from the Teng, but then just about anything would be.

I very much doubt that anything in the Wurth set is made in Europe. I believe the ratchets might have been at one point (by Usag in Italy) but now I think everything is from Taiwan. The quality is perfectly acceptable, much better than the Taiwan tools of some years back, but not European.

If you can get a deal or a discount, the Wurth can be good value.

I would probably consider the Hazet (953 SPC) as the tools are better quality, and made in Germany. These sets (or the version with the new HiPer ratchets) are usually on a factory promotion from Hazet, so represent excellent value.


Stahlwille also make “combination” sets, in fact quite a selection, but they are seldom on any sort of promotion.


On thing to consider with these sets, and taking the Wurth set as an example, it goes up to I think a 32mm socket. There is NO WAY you are going to shift a 32mm nut, tightened to the recommended torque, with the little ratchet handle supplied. You probably would struggle with a 19mm wheel bolt. So the utility of the set is very limited unless you add some bits.

Personally, I carry a plastic tool case on my vehicle (the Keter one shown below) and fill it with just the tools I need. Works out quite reasonable in price, and there’s room for some repair materials too.

Unior makes a nice set of sockets, mainly made in Slovenia/EU and also comparable to the above brands.

Wera sells taiwan tools, but in terms of keeping it in the car I think their soft pouches are extremely compact, light, and well thought out.

Big advantage is also that they won't rattle, and they have velcro on the back.




Also the toolcheck plus is even more compact for e.g. a bike kit.

 

[Dave455]

Unior makes a nice set of sockets, mainly made in Slovenia/EU and also comparable to the above brands.

Wera sells taiwan tools, but in terms of keeping it in the car I think their soft pouches are extremely compact, light, and well thought out.

Big advantage is also that they won't rattle, and they have velcro on the back.




Also the toolcheck plus is even more compact for e.g. a bike kit.

I don’t own any Unior but I’ve used some.

My impression was that they are a good “mid price” maker. Way better tools than Teng, for probably comparable money.

Yes, I thought about Wera, but I don’t think they offer the kind of “all in one” sets that snowblindb was seeking. Totally agree regarding their pouches.

I don’t really like these plastic boxes with foam inserts that so many makers offer. They’re a bit of a space waster and not particularly durable. The only things I hate more are the blow moulded cases!

Wera seem to be one of the few manufacturers that are at least trying to think about how their products are used. I wish they’d think a bit more and ditch the soft handles, but the pouches are very good.

If snowblindb could compromise a bit, the 3/8 Zyklop set might work.


Wera are doing some bigger sets now which are more along the lines of the Wurth set, but I’ve only seen these with the soft handle ratchet, and they are just not viable!

 

[Pinemarten]

The Teng set looks very versatile, since it has two sets of wrenches as well as sockets/ratchets. I have no experience with Teng tools. Is the quality sub-par?

 

[Dave455]

The Teng set looks very versatile, since it has two sets of wrenches as well as sockets/ratchets. I have no experience with Teng tools. Is the quality sub-par?

I can safely say that a Teng ratchet is the shittiest thing I’ve ever had the misfortune to use! Well, in the end I didn’t use it, it was so bad I walked back to my vehicle to retrieve my own!

It’s a plastic ratchet with a bit of crappy feeling tin screwed to it!


They were not always that way. They were once the better end of Taiwanese tools, but they now seem to prioritise (dubious) marketing, styling etc over actually making decent tools!

 

[dutchgray]

I can safely say that a Teng ratchet is the shittiest thing I’ve ever had the misfortune to use! Well, in the end I didn’t use it, it was so bad I walked back to my vehicle to retrieve my own!

It’s a plastic ratchet with a bit of crappy feeling tin screwed to it!


They were not always that way. They were once the better end of Taiwanese tools, but they now seem to prioritise (dubious) marketing, styling etc over actually making decent tools!

For what it's worth Teng used to be fair priced fair quality Taiwan made stuff, now they are too expensive and really no better quality than 20 years ago, when many of the other Taiwanese manufacturers are so much better.

Those ratchets were always god awful, high back drag, uncomfortable to use and not very strong, one of those designs where it easy to break one tooth and every time you hit that spot it self reverses.
You used to get those ratchets with a small set of sockets thrown in a subscription bonus with some of the UK car magazines. Which pretty much tells you how cheap they were.

 

[Ratchet.]

I can safely say that a Teng ratchet is the shittiest thing I’ve ever had the misfortune to use! Well, in the end I didn’t use it, it was so bad I walked back to my vehicle to retrieve my own!

It’s a plastic ratchet with a bit of crappy feeling tin screwed to it!


They were not always that way. They were once the better end of Taiwanese tools, but they now seem to prioritise (dubious) marketing, styling etc over actually making decent tools!

i remeber seeing the older (black plastic with no soft rubber handle) version of these around a fair bit way back when i was an apprentice, one of the techs i worked with actually used one a lot.. he was the type of guy that never bought expensive tools though

to be fair seemed to work ok and hold up alright but i did not like the feel of it at all, a ratchet made out of plastic seemed like a bad idea.

Their spanners and sockets however were/are pretty good, i really like the chrome finish they use, but thats definitly a ymmv thing

 

[dutchgray]

It feels nice to support something like that.

And I feel a little bit bad for writing this cause I'm not American, but I feel like craftsmen like that are really missing in the USA. There used to be lots of nice and unique things made there too, but nearly everything sold out to be made in china and it's really sad. Probably really hard to make a living with just 5-10 employees making something traditional. Or even if you're alone in a workshop and do some old profession like shoe repairs (cobblers).

You can still get some US stuff... Easiest and most widespread perhaps the Zippo. But it's not a product you'd need a skilled and experienced worker for. The simple plain satin Zippo here costs 34€ (around 40€ when not on discount, but it's probably always on discount), that's essentially the same cost as the stork scissors. To me they are a much nicer and more unique gift.

You see a few hand made American products on the Internet, almost always a lone maker doing their thing.
Lots of hand made knives, leather products etc
Their issue is their culture values immense consumption which means tons of cheap goods over a much more limited amount of quality items. It really isn't much different here in the UK nowadays.
Most of what you can buy where quality has been retained to at least a decent level are mass produced products which come with a luxury image and a price to match. Not that a luxury image denotes quality, a lot of luxury products are the same cheap rubbish as everything else but with better packaging and the correct name.

The part of the market which is almost completely gone is the middle ground, where you got good quality items for a sensible price.

You just know at the prices Ernest Wright are charging, whilst extremely high, they still won't be making that much profit, there is just so much hand work in them and because its almost a dead industry here in the UK, they really don't have the ability to expand as you can't get the skilled staff you need without training them, which takes years.

I ordered two pairs today, left handed Turton and 8" dress makers.

You know the profit margin on a Zippo lighter must be huge, as they are really a cheaply made mass produced product, albeit one of decent and durable quality, sold at a healthy price.

 

[Monte]

Lessmann brush handle (with M6 thread), 2 brushes, a flexible extension and a drill adaptor.

 

[dukefx]

I don’t own any Unior but I’ve used some.

My impression was that they are a good “mid price” maker. Way better tools than Teng, for probably comparable money.

Unior tools are definitely not in the "mid price" range. They are close to the high end. Unior tends to be a tad bit cheaper than Hazet, Stahlwille, and Gedore but not by much. For example the etorx set I posted not long ago was about 60 € and that was a really good price. I managed to get the last set from that shop. Now the cheapest I can find is 73 €. Compare that to lets say a Toptul set which costs about 15 €.

 

[Dave455]

Unior tools are definitely not in the "mid price" range. They are close to the high end. Unior tends to be a tad bit cheaper than Hazet, Stahlwille, and Gedore but not by much. For example the etorx set I posted not long ago was about 60 € and that was a really good price. I managed to get the last set from that shop. Now the cheapest I can find is 73 €. Compare that to lets say a Toptul set which costs about 15 €.

I suppose everything is relative, but here’s basically the same set by Hazet, no box, and it’s €133, so Unior is still looking mid price to me! €60 was definitely a bargain!

 

[neophyte]

You see a few hand made American products on the Internet, almost always a lone maker doing their thing.
Lots of hand made knives, leather products etc
Their issue is their culture values immense consumption which means tons of cheap goods over a much more limited amount of quality items. It really isn't much different here in the UK nowadays.
Most of what you can buy where quality has been retained to at least a decent level are mass produced products which come with a luxury image and a price to match. Not that a luxury image denotes quality, a lot of luxury products are the same cheap rubbish as everything else but with better packaging and the correct name.

The part of the market which is almost completely gone is the middle ground, where you got good quality items for a sensible price.

You just know at the prices Ernest Wright are charging, whilst extremely high, they still won't be making that much profit, there is just so much hand work in them and because its almost a dead industry here in the UK, they really don't have the ability to expand as you can't get the skilled staff you need without training them, which takes years.

I ordered two pairs today, left handed Turton and 8" dress makers.

You know the profit margin on a Zippo lighter must be huge, as they are really a cheaply made mass produced product, albeit one of decent and durable quality, sold at a healthy price.

How a Zippo lighter is made.

Supposedly Zippo has more than 1,000 employees.
Zippo is also located in North Central Pennsylvania, and PA still has a bunch of manufacturing in various areas.
The Brown Shoe Company, or whatever the company is now called (Caleres?)still manufactures a lot of Boots and Shoes in PA, including military boots like Corcoran, and work boots like the Carolina brand.

 

[F-22]

I suppose everything is relative, but here’s basically the same set by Hazet, no box, and it’s €133, so Unior is still looking mid price to me! €60 was definitely a bargain!

Unior is far less known than Hazet, so they're cheaper...

It really depends on which of their products we're talking about, cause some of it is imported from Taiwan. The stuff that is made in Slovenia is generally very good - their puller tools, their sockets and wrenches - those are definitely comparable to Hazet and Stahlwille and Gedore. Good quality steel and nice finish. Their screwdrivers I believe are made by the same manufacturer (Oplast) that also makes them for Hazet and Gedore (but I would personally only recommend the black hard handle versions).

I'd stay away from their pliers and ratcheting wrenches, I think most of those are imported.

The "regular" socket ratchets should be made in Slovenia but the mechanism isn't the nicest. They are a bit rough but they do the job. I would not generally recommend them unless its in the set youre buying. I have a couple of their older 1/2" ratchets and a modern 1/4" which I really dislike (for a small ratchet it has a lot of backdrag). The big ones are okay but coarse tooth and the flip-lever jumps at ever tooth so it is a very simple mechanism inside.

 

[dukefx]

I suppose everything is relative, but here’s basically the same set by Hazet, no box, and it’s €133, so Unior is still looking mid price to me! €60 was definitely a bargain!

I always compare the cheapest I can get. So 117 € minus the ridiculously overpriced SmartRail that goes for about 30 €, so lets say 87 € for 8 Hazet pieces versus 73 € for 9 Unior pieces. The box is basically free. Buying the sockets individually will get you to roughly the same sum.

As I said, a tad bit cheaper if we compare the made in Slovenia to the made in Germany stuff and disregard the SEA imports. Mid price (for me) would be about 40 € in this case, but of course that's as you said relative.

Unior is far less known than Hazet, so they're cheaper...

It really depends on which of their products we're talking about, cause some of it is imported from Taiwan. The stuff that is made in Slovenia is generally very good - their puller tools, their sockets and wrenches - those are definitely comparable to Hazet and Stahlwille and Gedore. Good quality steel and nice finish. Their screwdrivers I believe are made by the same manufacturer (Oplast) that also makes them for Hazet and Gedore (but I would personally only recommend the black hard handle versions).

I'd stay away from their pliers and ratcheting wrenches, I think most of those are imported.

The "regular" socket ratchets should be made in Slovenia but the mechanism isn't the nicest. They are a bit rough but they do the job. I would not generally recommend them unless its in the set youre buying. I have a couple of their older 1/2" ratchets and a modern 1/4" which I really dislike (for a small ratchet it has a lot of backdrag). The big ones are okay but coarse tooth and the flip-lever jumps at ever tooth so it is a very simple mechanism inside.

Their pliers are made in Slovenia, most if not all. There was also a rep here who said so (in the EU tools query thread iirc). My father has a few Unior combination and needle nose pliers and they are practically indestructible.

 

[littlebean]

Can anyone recommend a 3/8" drive 4mm hex bit socket that the 4mm bit length is 30mm plus long?
It need to go through a 5mm tapped hole and be 3/8" drive to sort torque wrench.

I know, this being GJ, I should already have every type of socket in all sizes and lengths but it's not my fault, honest

 

[Dave455]

Can anyone recommend a 3/8" drive 4mm hex bit socket that the 4mm bit length is 30mm plus long?
It need to go through a 5mm tapped hole and be 3/8" drive to sort torque wrench.

I know, this being GJ, I should already have every type of socket in all sizes and lengths but it's not my fault, honest

I normally advise KoKen for these sort of requirements, but the bits become wider behind the tip so might not fit in this case. They do offer a choice of four lengths.


I also like Hazet, but they have the same issue.

Stahlwille look good, if they are available easily to you.


Wera might just work for you. They seem to be designed for precisely this sort of problem. The narrow part is exactly 30mm.


Failing that, Snap On have you covered.

 

[Dave455]

I always compare the cheapest I can get. So 117 € minus the ridiculously overpriced SmartRail that goes for about 30 €, so lets say 87 € for 8 Hazet pieces versus 73 € for 9 Unior pieces. The box is basically free. Buying the sockets individually will get you to roughly the same sum.

As I said, a tad bit cheaper if we compare the made in Slovenia to the made in Germany stuff and disregard the SEA imports. Mid price (for me) would be about 40 € in this case, but of course that's as you said relative.


Their pliers are made in Slovenia, most if not all. There was also a rep here who said so (in the EU tools query thread iirc). My father has a few Unior combination and needle nose pliers and they are practically indestructible.

At those prices you’re right!

You’ve sold me on the Hazet…!

You’re right about the SmartRail. Very overpriced.

It seems that every year or so Hazet come out with some gimmicky storage or packing.

I wish they’d just ditch the lot and supply sets in metal boxes.

 

[littlebean]

thanks Dave455 - zyclop and stahlwille look promising

 

[Monte]

Helios Preisser 200x130mm square

 

[dukefx]

I can't believe these are made in Germany. I always thought they were SEA imports seeing how terrible the quality and overall craftsmanship of Helios Preisser stuff is.

 

[Monte]

I can't believe these are made in Germany. I always thought they were SEA imports seeing how terrible the quality and overall craftsmanship of Helios Preisser stuff is.

Many things are obviously imported, some squares, straight edges etc. are still made here.




Air fittings from Lüdecke

 

[Outahere]

Some made-in-Switzerland 6" metal cutting blades from Bosch (bi-metal) and Freud (carbide), purchased at Amazon-US.

 

[Gabo001]

Thanks Monte, that's some great info you've given me there.

Is there much of a "collectors" scene in Germany for german historical/old tools?

Seems strange that there were no results on a german tool forum for a german tool when I have some here in Australia many 1000's miles/KMs away!


So your answer then leads to some more questions...

Where are all these tools now?
How many were made?
Were they only made for export?
How the hell did they get all the way over here?!
Does anyone else have one?
Does anyone collect them?
What (if anything) are they worth?

Anyone with answers to any or all of these questions is invited to speak up, all help appreciated and welcome

rod

I have one. Said Just made in Germany.

Thanks Monte, that's some great info you've given me there.

Is there much of a "collectors" scene in Germany for german historical/old tools?

Seems strange that there were no results on a german tool forum for a german tool when I have some here in Australia many 1000's miles/KMs away!


So your answer then leads to some more questions...

Where are all these tools now?
How many were made?
Were they only made for export?
How the hell did they get all the way over here?!
Does anyone else have one?
Does anyone collect them?
What (if anything) are they worth?

Anyone with answers to any or all of these questions is invited to speak up, all help appreciated and welcome

rod

I have one. Just say NEUROPA MADE IN GERMANY. I from Argentina.

 

[Lasu]

Underseal gun, JWL. Bought new +20yr ago, used.

 

[Jack_K]

Underseal gun, JWL. Bought new +20yr ago, used.

I want to get one of these but they seem to be difficult to get, at least in Australia. All the other airboy products are pretty easy to get, most tool or parts stores list the brake bleeders and blow guns.

 

[Monte]

Drill bits from Gühring

 

[Kasal]

New month new tools, Stihl FS 491 C brushcutter, and also some cutting discs

 

[Monte]

Gedore magnetic pick up tool with mini magnet (5mm diameter)

 

[Jack_K]

Manual pneumatic tyre changer presumably made in New Zealand. It will be a lot better than the fully manual Chinese one that I have, even things as simple as the shape of the tyre changing bar ends.

I have not yet found any information on this company or machine.

Someone had put grease in the bead breaker cylinder which I assume was done to fix the fact it didn't work. I assume this is incorrect, I replaced it with oil and tightened up the piston nut and now it works pretty well.

 

[gsanvi]

The Wurth set shown is a step up from the Teng, but then just about anything would be.

I very much doubt that anything in the Wurth set is made in Europe. I believe the ratchets might have been at one point (by Usag in Italy) but now I think everything is from Taiwan. The quality is perfectly acceptable, much better than the Taiwan tools of some years back, but not European.

If you can get a deal or a discount, the Wurth can be good value.

I would probably consider the Hazet (953 SPC) as the tools are better quality, and made in Germany. These sets (or the version with the new HiPer ratchets) are usually on a factory promotion from Hazet, so represent excellent value.


Stahlwille also make “combination” sets, in fact quite a selection, but they are seldom on any sort of promotion.


On thing to consider with these sets, and taking the Wurth set as an example, it goes up to I think a 32mm socket. There is NO WAY you are going to shift a 32mm nut, tightened to the recommended torque, with the little ratchet handle supplied. You probably would struggle with a 19mm wheel bolt. So the utility of the set is very limited unless you add some bits.

Personally, I carry a plastic tool case on my vehicle (the Keter one shown below) and fill it with just the tools I need. Works out quite reasonable in price, and there’s room for some repair materials too.

The screwdriver looks like Felo which is made in Germany, so just as well some of the rest might be too

I have tools from all three - Hazet, Stahlwille and Wurth. I think you will be perfectly fine with the Wurth set, I bought the same one and that's how I got into this brand. Now I have their tool cart and some tools in foam inserts. I think Wurth hits the sweet spot, the price to quality ratio is really good. Stahlwille is very expensive, too expensive for most of the time. The socket sets' prices are crazy. Same goes for Hazet.

For DIY, or even professional use I believe you would be fine with Wurth. I have seen many shops use worse tools (Teng for example, which I agree is utter garbage) and go by perfectly fine. Also it's about focus - if you have limited budget, you could buy way more decent tools for the price of Stahlwille's socket set.

I say go for the Wurth set given the choice. Spend the rest of the money where it matters - Stahlwille torque wrenches are perhaps some of the best on the market. I have set and like them a lot.

 

[Snakevz]

For DIY, or even professional use I believe you would be fine with Wurth. I have seen many shops use worse tools (Teng for example, which I agree is utter garbage) and go by perfectly fine. Also it's about focus - if you have limited budget, you could buy way more decent tools for the price of Stahlwille's socket set.

I say go for the Wurth set given the choice. Spend the rest of the money where it matters - Stahlwille torque wrenches are perhaps some of the best on the market. I have set and like them a lot.

That's pretty much my philosophy - all I do is DIY, for most part electric stuff.
That being said - tools that are for that purpose are mostly same or better than pro's here use (hand tools)-Wera, Knipex,NWS, everything else is decent - mostly Unior (decent prices, decent quality-socket set, wrenches...), want to try some Toptul (things I've had in my hands look of similar quality to Unior, but cheaper for purchase), and the tools I use once a year and can be cheap - Lidl.

I've had Wurth 1/4" Zebra socket set, it had very nice fit & finish, screwdriver as mentioned looks like Felo Ergonic, ratchets and sockets as Facom. Also it had very very nice rubber like inlay, seemed to me like something that would last...
I believe it was this set:

https://www.amazon.com.be/-/en/096511-32-33-Piece-Socket-4-Inch/dp/B01IFIODJM